181 réponses à ce sujet

[jimbo32]

God I'm tired of people here telling me what my rights are.

[recyclebin2000]

Please that the "we" out of your thread title and replace it with "I". Thanks.

[Northernian]

@ OP

This is not a matter of rights or entitlement. The dominating media pejoratively represents the frustrated fans. All of a sudden, we have become "narcissistic," making demands, forcing things. This is hardly the situation.

And it seems you got it quite wrong. Again. Like many others. Let me get this straight:

Many people like me are simply saying that "we loved your game, it was awesome, but you really made a poopy job in the end, so why don't you reconsider your decisions?" I personally do not agree with this "Retake Mass Effect: Demand Better Ending" movement. It's because language is badly used. It should have been "Request a Better Ending."

There is quite a difference between "request" and "demand." As I said, media represents fans pejoratively. They can never be fully trusted because they mostly lack deep analysis of the situation, and publish their own ideas based on the superficial evidence.

So leastways, I request a better ending. Something that makes sense, so that I could move on. A lot of fans, I believe are suffering from the same situation. They are expecting an emotional resolution so that they could move on.

I have already given Bioware my objective feedback and have told that the ending doesn't work, the deus ex machina concept creates an oxymoron, and it really kills the re-playability value and before long your franchise would die off. Plus computer gaming is an entertainment. Some of us want to see brightness at the end. Can you blame them for that? Bioware didn't even give at least one happy ending, after all that promise that we'd get widely different endings. Not even one. They only give is one ending. If I want to see something tragic, I'd go and visit my local tax office where many people are going through hell, horrendously treated by government officials. I cannot blame anyone who uses videogaming as an escape.

So it's merely a "request for better ending" through critical review. In most cases, of course, it inevitably turns into complaints. It's very difficult to have full control over language as it is. Hopefully,the developers are checking our messages.

Modifié par Northernian, 22 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Rockworm503]

 hehe just watched Yahtzee's review http://www.escapistm...7-Mass-Effect-3This is why I love him "I'm not that d disappointed with the endings but than again I'm extremely jaded.  I have good morning if I don't accidently ****** on the loofah in the shower."

[Mister Mida]

Someone's holding the company at gunpoint?

[_Martyr_]

http://social.biowar...06/polls/30236/

This. Vote, comment and spread it around. Let's give Bioware some good, constructive feedback.

[kalle90]

I agree in that these pragmatic endings are better than simple good and bad endings. Though ending could have been smarter.

My problem is that no matter which you chose and what you did before doesn't reflect on what happens after the last choice. You see almost identical epilogues (that don't make much sense in the first place) and we don't know how it all really played out. Who survived, who didnt.

The very least the game needed was DA:O style text screens afterwards explaining what different major characters and entire races did. My sacrifice was pointless if I don't even know what happened to Garrus. Did he join Shepard or not.

[Aetius5]

I don't think most fans are demanding an ending that they specifically dictate. Rather, they want the game to live up to the dev promises as well as the sum of the choices their Shepard's have made among the journey. Don't lump everyone into one catagory, OP.

[desirearune]

They just said they are doing new content to answer the disappointing ending issue. It sounded like they are going to explain the ending and show what happens afterwards not add more alternative endings ... I haven't finished the game yet lol I worked so hard on the perfect save...I am scared it will leave me raging like everyone else..the game is bloody brilliant up to now .... just playing multiplayer and some bf3 clan matches to keep my mind off mass effect 3 till... the announcement in April.... when they show what happens afterwards I hope I can see a picture of my little blue daughters with their mom (as mentioned in me2) ... its amazing the gaming community is so strong and passionate. Bioware is gold wish dice would listen to us like that in bf3 we had to stage a bloody blackout to hear anything at all from the team . But bioware sounded concerned about the aggressive and negative feedback their team were receiving ..... trolls maybe ? One thing is certain we all love the mass effect trilogy .... the trilogy is now a part of gaming history there is no competition. I can't wait to see how bioware will grow and evolve ..... can't wait to see what they will come up with to beat shepard and his teammates story... it was one of the journey of a lifetime .... I thank bioware for making me cringe when my squad died in me2... went back and saved everyone. Me2's start and ending was the bees knees me1 was a breakthrough... the art and sound design has been flawless throughout.... me3's gameplay and multiplayer is brilliant .... thank you for reading this is Incendom shepard....out

[Gogzilla]

I don't want a retcon because of the current ending or because they had to make a "fanon" ending.

That being said there is without a doubt a considerable amount of resentment from the fan-base with the way the series wrapped up.

Considering the quality of the remainder 2.95 games , it would be rather arrogant on my part to doubt the talent working at Bioware all of a sudden
But since Bioware has said repeatedly that they are listening to feedback. I would like to offer my own.

I will say what i want is more closure for all the favorite character that fans love and hate.
At the end of the day the Normandy and her crew mean more to us than plot holes or inconsistencies.

If there is an epilogue DLC , it should focus on the crew of the Normandy , past crew and favorite characters like Wrex  , Aria and what the choices Shepard makes throughout the game and at the end affect them, including what it all meant to them .

if that can't be accomplished without compromising "artistic" integrity as Ray Muzyka puts it.
Then the Onus is squarely on Bioware to decide whats more important and how they would like the Mass effect Trilogy to be remembered.

Those review scores are not what people will talk about or even care about months or years down line. What your fans say and remember is what keeps franchises and games alive even years after their release.  I am personally amped for Baldurs Gate EE .

Will Mass Effect be just as popular so many years latter ?
personally the way it is right now , the Endings color the series in such a way i can only sigh looking back.
and i don't think i am the only one.

[lumen11]

Little Johnny was promised 4 sweets by his aunt. Instead he got 3 and he cried all night long...

[OdanUrr]

Here we go again. Again.

Yes, Bioware made some pretty tall promises and, for a lot of people, didn't deliver. They did the same with DA2 and I saw no "Retake DA2" movement. A lot of people pretty much decided to chalk it up to bad writing, a change in the artistic direction, etc.

Sure, I was very disappointed with the endings, mostly because they just end and don't give us the closure most of us were looking for. And, in every case, you get this feeling that the galaxy is screwed big time.

But, please, let us not delude ourselves into believing that:

a) If they promised something, they should deliver on it. That ship's has long since sailed. Some people believe Bioware did deliver on ME3, so what are you going to tell them? "Your opinion's wrong simply because I'm in the right?"

The majority of people want to change the ending. That's simply not true. I could believe that the majority of people on the BSN want further closure. That I can and do agree with. But that is, also, a different thing entirely.

c) Bioware couldn't have messed up this bad so it's intentional. Yes, they could have, it has happened before.

Done. Let the war resume.

[whiteraider]

I personally want the 20 minutes from staggering into the light to the "Buy more for this" to be deleted, & the original writing team to write something better with at least 3 real choices, all of which use the massive armarda I've built, along with the Crucible to let me deal with the Reapers in their home ground!

But in the end what I want is irrelevant, except in how it affects my future dealings with EA/Bioware!

Modifié par whiteraider, 22 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[DOGGEH84]

All I want to do is continue the game if you survive ending.

[Saodade]

saxybeast418 wrote...

...
Let me ask you: if Bioware let any fan write and implement any ending that they desire, would that be satisfying? Would that feel "real?"

Look, personally, I'm totally for Bioware finishing their game. I just seriously doubt the community's assertions that it knows how to make games better than Bioware does.

OOOoooooh THAT  should be awesome!! Everyone get his own unic and ideal ending, everyone is  happy !
 /em go  fantasize

[chris fenton]

"We don't want to change the ending!'

...Yes we do. 'least I do.

[Tirigon]

saxybeast418 wrote...


I will cry if any "fanon" becomes canon. There is a reason why my money went to Bioware, and not to some random schmuck on the internet: the people at Bioware are bloody good at what they do.

[Legion voice:] Empirical evidence - namely the endings - indicates they are not.

Modifié par Tirigon, 22 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[kbct]

I was wondering why this thread was so long. Then I looked at who argued for five pages and, yup, it was the usual players.

I do not want the colors and god-child to be described in greater detail. I would like an ending that reflects the choices made throughout the game.

[saxybeast418]

Vaktathi wrote...

 OP, As much as I hate to say it, the ending is fundamentally broken. 

I'd have to disagree with that. The one positive thing that has come out of all of the fan-written endings is that they serve as a demonstration that Bioware has countless ways to retool the ending without abandoning what they have already done.

Also, I would ask that we not assume knowledge on Bioware's plans for the upcoming revision to the endings. We don't know if the original endings will remain in anything like their current form. We don't know if more choices will be added, and we certainly don't know what the final result will look or feel like.


I've seen a lot of fans on this thread say something to the effect of how they feel that Bioware "broke their promise." To that I say: what promise, exactly? Just because someone in an interview says what they are planning on or attempting to do does not make them beholden to everything that they have ever said in front of a camera.

They tried. It didn't turn out quite as well as most of us would like.

And they are trying again.

Looking back, I probably should have put quotes around "change" in the topic's title. No, I do not think that the endings are sufficient as they stand, and so technically it is true that I would support them being "changed." However, if we really want to see good, or even great, endings come out of this whole kerfuffle, I would ask the community to tone back the outcries, the demands, the indignation, and give Bioware another crack at the ending. They can do it, they have publicly stated that they are doing it, so let's give them a chance to do it on their terms!

[DouLou]

saxybeast418 wrote...

*Sigh* I cannot believe I am posting a topic on this subject. But this has gotten truly silly.

First of all, I want to thank Bioware for delivering such a spectacular title. The gameplay, writing, and story of this game is absolutely superb, and the fact that you had an extraordinarily short development time (compared to your other titles) makes your accomplishment all the more extraordinary.

So, thank you :-)

Now to the good stuff!

Despite my love for this game (or perhaps, because of it) the ending simply is not up to the standards of a Bioware game, when ironically the rest of the game raises that already high bar another few notches. It's not difficult to imagine the crunch time that resulted in the endings' problems.

*HOWEVER!!!* It isn't a bad ending, it isn't awful, nor is it fundamentally broken.

It is simply incomplete. Unpolished. Unfinished.

And that is the crux of this whole controversy, something that the raging community is not articulating particularly well. At all.

I will cry if any "fanon" becomes canon. There is a reason why my money went to Bioware, and not to some random schmuck on the internet: the people at Bioware are bloody good at what they do.

So to all of the folks at Bioware and EA, please resist the call to give the fans what they (or we, I suppose) say that they want. Just ask George Lucas how that particular gambit turned out: despite adding Boba Fett, storm troopers, and Yoda with a lightsaber, Episode II ended up being so much worse than Episode I.

To the fans: you are not helping right now. Yes, you have every right to express displeasure and dissatisfaction with the ending. However, you have no right to make any creative or artistic demands of the Mass Effect team. Do you honestly believe that holding the company at gunpoint will spur the creativity necessary to make the meaningful ending that the series deserves?

So please, give Bioware a break. I can only imagine that the entire team is exhausted and drained in the herculean effort it must have taken to finish this bloody thing. Let them rest, let them have a chance to give themselves a well deserved pat on the back.

Give them the benifit of the doubt. They know where we stand, and I think that given some time and space, they will be able to finish their creation, on their own terms.

And we will all be better off for it.

Good post. It's hard to find balanced and respectful posts among the entitled rants of the teen demographic.

If Bioware changed the ending I wouldn't even bother to buy it. It wouldn't be Biowares ending, it wouldn't be ME3's ending, it would be a Frankenstein like abomination born from the minds of angry fans, then cultivated by a desperate team of devs who fear they may lose their fanbase. What a horrible thought.

I do wonder what the reaction will be once DLC is released. If it appeases the fans will they celebrate their victory? I can only imagine it would be a hollow one. If Biowares course of action is to cave in and god forbid, adopt some fan made ending, then they may as well make the final scene a blank page word document and ask you to fill in your own blanks.

[DeinonSlayer]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

If a majority of fans want different endings they should get them.

They were after all promised VARIED endings.

This. I did not spend triple digit hours for all of my playthroughs 100%ing everything to GET THE SAME DAMN ENDING.

Exactly. The destruction of the relays damns any colony that depended on them to mass starvation. The fleet that helped you will never go home. I won't even get started on the Normandy. I don't see how Bioware can "clarify" their way out of this.

[Vilegrim]

episode 2 worse than episode 1? What are you smoking and can I have some?

[urborg74]

All you people trying to "smooth things over" with the Bioware team are completely failing to understand that regardless of what you think, other people are not happy with the game. Bioware can choose to ignore it obviously, but they do so at risk of losing a portion of their fan base.

Imagine if Lord of the Rings had ended with Frodo and Sam engulfed by lava as Mount Doom erupted...do you think the movies would have done nearly as well?

Like it or not, gaming is a business and businesses that ignore their customers generally don't last long. Left as it is now, I have no intention of purchasing any further DLC for this game...reparations need to be made if Bioware wants to see another dime from this customer (this also due to the issue with being unable to access my games when the servers are down, which seems to be happening a LOT lately).

[Father_Jerusalem]

lordhugorune wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The TRUE majority are the ones who don't care enough to participate in this discussion, one way or another. It doesn't mean they LIKE the endings, it doesn't mean they HATE the endings. It just means they can't be assed hopping on the internet to rage about it one way or another. 

Hmm? Without wanting to go off topic, this is a bit like when there was a recent protest about an issue in my city, and close to 200,000 people took to the street. The response to the protest by some who took the other side? 'That indicates that the 3,800,000 people who didn't participate in the protest agree with us!'

This is something similar. The correct way is to not blindly assume that the silent majority take the opposing view to those who speak up, but rather that it's simply unknown. To actually get a reasonable idea, you can do two things: You can do surveys to get a broad view while taking out self-selection bias, or you can extrapolate the sample that you do have, and make a reasonable assumption that those who have remained silent have similar views to those who have spoken, albeit less strongly and perhaps some have no opinion at all.

Please point out to me where I said anything about automatically assuming that the people who are silent agree with me? I... never made a single claim like that. In fact, I said precisely the opposite, that it could mean they agree with me, or disagree with me, but they just don't care enough to rage about it. 

But... sure, okay, obviously I didn't say that at all even though it's in your quote that you actually uoted.

Oh, and the sample we DO have is full of vote bombing, multiple voting, ACTUAL biased advertising ("come vote in this poll to show how much you hate the ending"), and a HEAVILY self-selecting HEAVILY tainted sample group.

You show me an actual random survey from a pool of ALL ME3 owners, not just those who frequent BSN and other video game website, and sure, we can work with that. But until then, these stupid polls are about as valid as Lindsay Lohan saying "I'm not on drugs!"

[saxybeast418]

urborg74 wrote...

All you people trying to "smooth things over" with the Bioware team are completely failing to understand that regardless of what you think, other people are not happy with the game. Bioware can choose to ignore it obviously, but they do so at risk of losing a portion of their fan base.

Imagine if Lord of the Rings had ended with Frodo and Sam engulfed by lava as Mount Doom erupted...do you think the movies would have done nearly as well?

Like it or not, gaming is a business and businesses that ignore their customers generally don't last long. Left as it is now, I have no intention of purchasing any further DLC for this game...reparations need to be made if Bioware wants to see another dime from this customer (this also due to the issue with being unable to access my games when the servers are down, which seems to be happening a LOT lately).

Well, a couple of things: 1) They are NOT ignoring the fans. They are addressing our concerns, and they are attempting to improve the ending. 2) A sad, downer ending, if done well, is infinitely prefarable to a happy ending designed to assuage the fans.

Here, perhaps a link to people more clever and credible than myself will demonstrate this:

http://penny-arcade....omic/2012/03/16

Mister Mida wrote...

Someone's holding the company at gunpoint?

Fair point, Mister Mida, "gunpoint" is hyperbole, and I apologize. However, reporting Bioware/EA to the Better Business Bureau and the FTC, starting a massive negative publicity campaign that gets attention from the news media, and the bitter demands and ultimatums from the fans is all potentially harmful to Bioware. It can make their future endeavors harder to fund, and worst-case scenario, could even result in people getting laid off.

This is speculation on my part, and I seriously doubt this worst-case scenario is even remotely probable. Even so, the atmosphere of bitter mistrust within the community is not going to encourage Bioware to create their best work.

Also, I'm not saying that companies should not be held accountable or suffer the consequences for bad products or practices. I'm simply arguing that the rage, the demands, the calls for some sort of compensation or reparation is unjustified, and could potentially have a negative consequence for Bioware that they hardly deserve. Especially considering that they are working on addressing the concerns of the community!

Vilegrim wrote...

episode 2 worse than episode 1? What are you smoking and can I have some?

A little off topic, but yes, I would argue that Episode II was worse than Episode I!

I'm basically quoting the Escapist's Bob "MovieBob" Chapman here, and I'll include a link in the post, but Episode I is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks (and yes, I am included, as I still hate Episode I far more than it deserves).

Consider Episode I on its own merits, outside of the Star Wars context. You basically have a below-average mediocre junk summer action movie blockbuster.

Yes, the script and characterization were horribly written and ineffective. Yes, the cinematography was often flat, and the action scenes focused on sensory overload rather than effective emotions or meaning.

But there are some good points about Episode I. The art direction and world design was pretty darn good, and the CGI, while dated by today's standards, was quite good at the time, and is still alright as of this day.

Episode II had all of Episode I's problems turned up to 11, along with a truly terrible romance subplot. Furthermore, the one good thing that Episode I had, the unique and interesting art direction, was thrown out, replaced by pandering fanservice. Boba Fett? Floating city? Stormtroopers? Yoda with a lightsaber? A frickin lightsabered jedi army?

This is fanservice, taking the things that fans love, especially visual motifs from the highly-praised Empire Strikes Back, and shoving them into a movie in the most superficial way possible, and making the whole thing worse as a result.

I got pretty much all of this analysis from someone else much cleverer than me:

http://www.escapistm...-13-Years-Later