I thought I'd delurk to get some advice. I've read that people use Spell Turning to defeat beholders, but I've been having problems with that approach in the beholder lair in the underdark (I'm trying a solo sorcerer). The Elder Orbs (and maybe the beholders too?) have a death ray that seems to bypass ST and forces me to roll a save vs. death, which my items can't get down to 0. When I use Improved Invisibility etc. to improve my saves, they just counter with True Sight or, if I have SI:Div up, with their anti-magic ray. I'm at a loss as to how people manage to get this strategy to work.
Also, Spell Turning doesn't actually turn their rays, despite what I've read online (it just seems to cancel them out). Is this a fixpack thing? I hace SCS2 installed, but not the beholder components.
Thanks!
Beholders and spell turning
Débuté par
Satyricon331
, mars 22 2012 05:35
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#2
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:15
The Potty 1
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I feel your pain, SCS2 Elder orbs are really nasty. Someone better at spell protections can list the 5-6 spells you need running to make yourself immune to beholders, but I think even those are not foolproof. I generally send in 5 skelly warriors to draw their fire, drop malison / glitterdust / ADHW / fireballs from out of sight, and retreat as necessary.
If all else fails, leave this area for last, or even leave the underdark entirely, finish off Bhodi, and return at a higher level. Of the three areas, the western Koa-tuan one may be easiest. Spam sunfires and rest between fights if you have to.
If all else fails, leave this area for last, or even leave the underdark entirely, finish off Bhodi, and return at a higher level. Of the three areas, the western Koa-tuan one may be easiest. Spam sunfires and rest between fights if you have to.
#3
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:16
BelgarathMTH
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Spell Shield is supposed to help until it goes down.
If you have Polymorph Self and a Wand of Cold, you can shapeshift to mustard jelly for 100% magic resistance, and kill it with the wand.
The Elder Orb does more than use rays. It also casts regular spells, including Horrid Wilting. I wouldn't want to face this thing solo. I can barely defeat it with a party of six on a good day.
I believe that most successful solo sorcerers take Polymorph Self for just these kinds of battles. Mustard jelly is 100% magic resistance (but has to fight with wands), and flint has a +3 halberd (can fight golems and the like).
If you have Polymorph Self and a Wand of Cold, you can shapeshift to mustard jelly for 100% magic resistance, and kill it with the wand.
The Elder Orb does more than use rays. It also casts regular spells, including Horrid Wilting. I wouldn't want to face this thing solo. I can barely defeat it with a party of six on a good day.
I believe that most successful solo sorcerers take Polymorph Self for just these kinds of battles. Mustard jelly is 100% magic resistance (but has to fight with wands), and flint has a +3 halberd (can fight golems and the like).
Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 22 mars 2012 - 03:17 .
#4
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:37
corey_russell
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I agree that for a solo arcane character, at least, jelly form plus a fully charged wand would be a sure way to go against the beholders. It is possible to beat the beholders via buffs, but you need to use spell immunities to protect your buffs -- unfortunately, I don't know which ones specifically you need.
#5
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 05:34
AnonymousHero
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Assuming a vanilla (or vanilla-esque) setup, the anti-magic ray is stopped by Spell Shield. IIRC Spell Shield will also protect a Spell Turning from being "burned" away by beholder rays, but I'm far from certain about that.
Once you are protected from the anti-magic ray, you'll want to layer in most of the standard mage buffs, such as SI:Divination + Improved Invisibility for +4 to all saving throws. (The SI:D will protect your II from being dispelled by the Elder Orb True Seeing.)
You'll also need SI:Abjuration to protect against Imprisonment -- at least if you go into melee range.
Once you are protected from the anti-magic ray, you'll want to layer in most of the standard mage buffs, such as SI:Divination + Improved Invisibility for +4 to all saving throws. (The SI:D will protect your II from being dispelled by the Elder Orb True Seeing.)
You'll also need SI:Abjuration to protect against Imprisonment -- at least if you go into melee range.
#6
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:20
Satyricon331
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Thanks guys, these are all good tips. I've done the beholder lair before with the good old Poly:Self spell, and it's a blast.
It sounds like the problem is I don't have the vanilla Spell Shield, then. I forget which of the mods fixes it (maybe SCS2?) but one of them fixes Spell Shield so the anti-magic ray works like other spells - a SS can block a single anti-magic ray but is dispelled in the process. From the descriptions of the Spell Turning strategy, I hadn't realized people were using SS at all (it sounded like ST was doing everything for them).
Having played around with it, I can defeat the two at the entrance if I can recast Spell Shield quickly enough after it's fallen, but it's pretty chancy - either they can cast two AMRs successively so I get the spell-failure effect before I can cast SS, or I'm just so busy recasting SS I can't inflict enough damage before the ST has run down.
It sounds like the problem is I don't have the vanilla Spell Shield, then. I forget which of the mods fixes it (maybe SCS2?) but one of them fixes Spell Shield so the anti-magic ray works like other spells - a SS can block a single anti-magic ray but is dispelled in the process. From the descriptions of the Spell Turning strategy, I hadn't realized people were using SS at all (it sounded like ST was doing everything for them).
Having played around with it, I can defeat the two at the entrance if I can recast Spell Shield quickly enough after it's fallen, but it's pretty chancy - either they can cast two AMRs successively so I get the spell-failure effect before I can cast SS, or I'm just so busy recasting SS I can't inflict enough damage before the ST has run down.
#7
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:36
The Potty 1
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OK what level are you? Which of the various sequencers & triggers do you know? What HLA's if any? Also what high level summons, although that won't help with the first fight.
The standard cheesy mage-o-death tactic is to load 3x ADHW into a chain contingency on enemy sighted, targeting yourself or nearest enemy. This takes a second or two to fire, giving you just enough time to cast a malison first. ADHW does 1d8 damage per level, save vs spell for half, so the malison lowers their chance of taking half damage. This should get you through the first fight, and gives you the beholder blood you need. It probably won't work on the elder orb, although it should take out any henchmen. Even better, it should still work when shapeshifted into a jelly.
The standard cheesy mage-o-death tactic is to load 3x ADHW into a chain contingency on enemy sighted, targeting yourself or nearest enemy. This takes a second or two to fire, giving you just enough time to cast a malison first. ADHW does 1d8 damage per level, save vs spell for half, so the malison lowers their chance of taking half damage. This should get you through the first fight, and gives you the beholder blood you need. It probably won't work on the elder orb, although it should take out any henchmen. Even better, it should still work when shapeshifted into a jelly.
#8
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 08:21
ussnorway
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The Slayer... it's not a spell but that doesn't stop the Orb from being dead or give you any less exp points for the kill.
p.s.
Air elementals (like the one in the "Staff of Air") make good anti-orb tankers.
p.s.
Air elementals (like the one in the "Staff of Air") make good anti-orb tankers.
#9
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:40
Satyricon331
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I'm level 18 and have Chain Contingency, but I've been avoiding using it for now. I was really interested in the Spell Turning strategy, which now seems like a dud with the Spell Shield fix.
If I go a summoning route on a future game, I'll just SI: D + SI: A + invisibility to get past them and launch my plans from elsewhere. Do air elementals have magic immunity?
If I go a summoning route on a future game, I'll just SI: D + SI: A + invisibility to get past them and launch my plans from elsewhere. Do air elementals have magic immunity?
#10
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 11:15
corey_russell
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I don't think so about the air elementals, but they have decent saves. A skeletal warrior has 90% MR. Certainly HLA summons should do pretty well though, a Deva/planetar globed should put qutie a beating on those beholders. I'm not sure about mordy swords, never tried them (against beholders), but they might be a possibility.
Modifié par corey_russell, 23 mars 2012 - 11:16 .
#11
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 11:52
ussnorway
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It's just that as a large character they block the tunnel and prevent the Orb from closing the distance... They are transparent (immune to some effects) and they do good damage.
#12
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 12:12
Satyricon331
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corey_russell wrote...
I don't think so about the air elementals, but they have decent saves. A skeletal warrior has 90% MR. Certainly HLA summons should do pretty well though, a Deva/planetar globed should put qutie a beating on those beholders. I'm not sure about mordy swords, never tried them (against beholders), but they might be a possibility.
Mordy swords work, but it takes resting a lot to clear the dungeon if you use only them (even if you're using a PI to summon them). The swords don't stick around long, and for any group that has an Elder Orb you have to send two in (one at a time) before sending in the main group (b/c of the old Death Spell-then-Imprisonment thing).
