Aller au contenu

Photo

It's disturbing how many ladies actually fancy Alister


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
479 réponses à ce sujet

#151
syllogi

syllogi
  • Members
  • 7 243 messages

Kuravid wrote...
Given the opportunity to either kill someone or allow them to redeem themselves, or even just to simply lock them up somewhere, I will definitely take the latter option (at least while playing a good character). I'm not dismissing Loghain's hideous crimes, I'm saying that, just like everyone else, he deserves a chance. I'm actually quite happy that the developers managed to incorporate compassion and reason into this game (not completely, but at least in this instance of the game).


You know who deserves a second chance?  Someone who is actually sorry for their crimes, and seeks atonement.  At no point, up to the moment you are about to chop his head off, does Loghain seem to be sorry for his actions.  He is as morally bankrupt as Howe or Vaughn, and needs to be put down like them, unless you really don't care.

You know who deserves to have vengence on the man who killed his mentor and surrogate family, poisoned his foster father, and almost destroyed Ferelden with his actions???  That's right, Alistair, the guy who would gladly die for you if you are his friend.  Because he is made of awesome, and his voice rocks. 

BAM, thread back on track.

#152
Justin2k

Justin2k
  • Members
  • 1 119 messages

Recidiva wrote...

It's hard for me to not make it through Lel's romance without rolling my eyes a bit and thinking "You're really not as seductive as you think you are" but that's also because...I'm a straight woman and not attracted to her looks or voice


Thats a big part of it, with Alistair too.  As a straight guy, Alistair is just a funny character in this game for me.  But it's not just women, gay guys are "wow he's great" also.

At the same token I think Leliana's voice and general mystique is pretty sexy.  But then I am a straight guy and am attracted to her looks and voice.

Even though they are characters, and we all know this, they are made to resemble humans, with human voices and emotions.  So it's natural that the girls are warming to the "hearthrob" of the game in the same way they would to a Leonardo DiCaprio or whoever.  And the guys like Morrigan and Leliana for the same reasons.

#153
ReubenLiew

ReubenLiew
  • Members
  • 2 674 messages
I would've spared Howe if I had the chance! Too bad the crazy fool had to go and attack you. Poor, poor fool.

And I was playing human noble too!

#154
Kuravid

Kuravid
  • Members
  • 224 messages

.Faine wrote...

Whilst I would agree that Alistair's unchanging view on this was frustrating, I think it's important to note that many human nobles who kill Howe, for example, or city elves who kill the rapists in their origin, do not see their revenge as at all childish or unjust. When looking at this from Alistair's point of view it's easy to understand why he wants Loghain dead, even if the more rational option would be to let him live. Granted, emotional out-bursts are not particularly mature but how many people would have freaked out if in the end of their game they didn't get to take their vengeance on their own personal origin enemies? To Alistiar, Loghain is a much more personal foe than he is to the PC I think. Alistair really valued Duncan and the other Grey Wardens; they were effectively his family. His desire to see Loghain dead simply made him very human to me.


That is completely true, and everyone has the right to freak out and get mad and have their feelings heard. The big problem, however, is whether or not someone should act on those feelings. I think that the ability to hold back and make decisions based not on how you feel but on what you know to be the right thing to do after examining the situation in a rational state of mind, truly makes you a good person. Forgiveness doesn't make the horrible things that people do right or okay (or videogame people in this case), but it surely allows you to let go so that what they've done can no longer consume you with rage/sadness/fear whatever. And that's also pretty sexy.

Vengeance just wastes your energy, time and life. Alistair fails in this area, and that adds to my list of "Alistair's undesirable qualities." And I agree, his emotional outburts do make him very human. In that way, he is a good character, and I surely felt bad when he had to leave my party. And annoyed, though not entirely surprised, for I kind of expected that he'd end up screwing my elf over in some way. 

#155
RunCDFirst

RunCDFirst
  • Members
  • 563 messages

Justin2k wrote...
...And the guys like Morrigan and Leliana for the same reasons.


Morrigan can rot in the twisted and poisoned maw of the archdemon for all eternity. In my opinion.

#156
Taleroth

Taleroth
  • Members
  • 9 136 messages

ReubenLiew wrote...

I would've spared Howe if I had the chance! Too bad the crazy fool had to go and attack you. Poor, poor fool.
And I was playing human noble too!

Same.  My Human Noble refuses bloodshed if he has any choice in it at all.

Now, my City Elf.  She's basically a female Punisher.

#157
Recidiva

Recidiva
  • Members
  • 1 846 messages

Kuravid wrote...

That is completely true, and everyone has the right to freak out and get mad and have their feelings heard. The big problem, however, is whether or not someone should act on those feelings. I think that the ability to hold back and make decisions based not on how you feel but on what you know to be the right thing to do after examining the situation in a rational state of mind, truly makes you a good person. Forgiveness doesn't make the horrible things that people do right or okay (or videogame people in this case), but it surely allows you to let go so that what they've done can no longer consume you with rage/sadness/fear whatever. And that's also pretty sexy.

Vengeance just wastes your energy, time and life. Alistair fails in this area, and that adds to my list of "Alistair's undesirable qualities." And I agree, his emotional outburts do make him very human. In that way, he is a good character, and I surely felt bad when he had to leave my party. And annoyed, though not entirely surprised, for I kind of expected that he'd end up screwing my elf over in some way. 


Well, in reality, I've dealt with similar situations with aplomb and dignity and support. All that grown up stuff.

Games, though, I have more fun diving in and seeing if it's deep or if I hit bottom and break my neck.  I can always go "Oh." and reset my neck.  So I leave my emotional risk taking to games, where it belongs.

#158
ReubenLiew

ReubenLiew
  • Members
  • 2 674 messages
But I killed Vaughan though.

But I blame it on the fact his voice wasn't Tim Curry :D

In the end I pitied Howe more than I hated him. By that time my character had vented out her hatred on everything else in her journey rather than focusing all her hatred onto a single figure.

I mean I would've asked for him to be put in jail for what he did for life, sure, but killing him felt... empty.

#159
eschilde

eschilde
  • Members
  • 528 messages
If Loghain wasn't a playable character, I wouldn't have let him live..

#160
Kuravid

Kuravid
  • Members
  • 224 messages

TeenZombie wrote...

You know who deserves a second chance?  Someone who is actually sorry for their crimes, and seeks atonement.  At no point, up to the moment you are about to chop his head off, does Loghain seem to be sorry for his actions.  He is as morally bankrupt as Howe or Vaughn, and needs to be put down like them, unless you really don't care.

You know who deserves to have vengence on the man who killed his mentor and surrogate family, poisoned his foster father, and almost destroyed Ferelden with his actions???  That's right, Alistair, the guy who would gladly die for you if you are his friend.  Because he is made of awesome, and his voice rocks. 

BAM, thread back on track.


Everyone deserves a second chance. No one is better than or greater than or more human than anyone else. This can sometimes be a hard lesson to learn.
Alistair is a good character based on how he is written and acted out within the game, but what Alistair does during the game is not morally justifiable based on that alone. Killing Loghain surely doesn't make Duncan or the grey wardens reappear, nor does locking Anora up in a tower (or dungeon, I forget what it was).

Because of all of these things and more, I surely wouldn't want to hook up with someone like Alistair IRL. And I also find it odd that so many ladies seem to fancy him.

#161
Axterix

Axterix
  • Members
  • 342 messages

Justin2k wrote...

At the same token I think Leliana's voice and general mystique is pretty sexy.  But then I am a straight guy and am attracted to her looks and voice.


Same.  I'm not sure I'd pay complete attention to what she's saying, but I would enjoy listening to her say whatever it is that she is saying.  That and she has an innocence to her, inspite of her seductress, spy, assassin background.  Just like women like something to nurture, guys like something to protect.

#162
Pawlem

Pawlem
  • Members
  • 53 messages

Justin2k wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

It's hard for me to not make it through Lel's romance without rolling my eyes a bit and thinking "You're really not as seductive as you think you are" but that's also because...I'm a straight woman and not attracted to her looks or voice


Thats a big part of it, with Alistair too.  As a straight guy, Alistair is just a funny character in this game for me.  But it's not just women, gay guys are "wow he's great" also.

At the same token I think Leliana's voice and general mystique is pretty sexy.  But then I am a straight guy and am attracted to her looks and voice.

Even though they are characters, and we all know this, they are made to resemble humans, with human voices and emotions.  So it's natural that the girls are warming to the "hearthrob" of the game in the same way they would to a Leonardo DiCaprio or whoever.  And the guys like Morrigan and Leliana for the same reasons.


I agree with everything you said. Although I'd rather kill Leliana and go with Morrigan.

#163
eschilde

eschilde
  • Members
  • 528 messages
Well, I'm pretty sure all the ladies have already said it, but he's pretty, he's charming, cute, funny.. and, as Leliana says, being just a bit awkward is very endearing. Not to mention, in this universe you're the only two Grey Wardens left in Fereldan. It's pretty much a perfect setup for romance.

#164
Kuravid

Kuravid
  • Members
  • 224 messages

ReubenLiew wrote...

But I killed Vaughan though.
But I blame it on the fact his voice wasn't Tim Curry :D
In the end I pitied Howe more than I hated him. By that time my character had vented out her hatred on everything else in her journey rather than focusing all her hatred onto a single figure.
I mean I would've asked for him to be put in jail for what he did for life, sure, but killing him felt... empty.


Yeah, killing him wasn't all that rewarding. The alternative to not killing Vaughan was pretty bad, but I still wanted to spare him somehow. Or just beat him up and take his money.

#165
Monkeylamp

Monkeylamp
  • Members
  • 9 messages
To start with pointing ouy that I am a guy(last time i checked).
Allistair is anoying as hell, i cant stand his voice or dialogue. He is as dumb as Morrigan claims. In every one of my playthroughs after the first one (when i gave everyone a chance) he hits the camp and never leaves the cooking pot! How the hell is being whiny and immature sexy! Worst character after Morrigan!
You cant realy call me a Morrigan fanboi either. That treacherous b***h! She keeps him company in the CAMP down by the RIVER!  Liliana is ok i guess but too whiny aswell, she would be in the CAMP down by the RIVER aswell if she didnt have them lockpicking skills.
Oghren and dog are the best companions a guy can have. Nice to have sombody with same views on drinking, food and hygene tag along!
Oghren thats a real manly man guy! Yay for Oghren!

#166
.Faine

.Faine
  • Members
  • 64 messages

Kuravid wrote...

That is completely true, and everyone has the right to freak out and get mad and have their feelings heard. The big problem, however, is whether or not someone should act on those feelings. I think that the ability to hold back and make decisions based not on how you feel but on what you know to be the right thing to do after examining the situation in a rational state of mind, truly makes you a good person. Forgiveness doesn't make the horrible things that people do right or okay (or videogame people in this case), but it surely allows you to let go so that what they've done can no longer consume you with rage/sadness/fear whatever. And that's also pretty sexy.

Vengeance just wastes your energy, time and life. Alistair fails in this area, and that adds to my list of "Alistair's undesirable qualities." And I agree, his emotional outburts do make him very human. In that way, he is a good character, and I surely felt bad when he had to leave my party. And annoyed, though not entirely surprised, for I kind of expected that he'd end up screwing my elf over in some way. 


To be honest I more or less agree with you. I would have much rather have had the option to talk some sense into Alistair and spare Loghain as he was a man who would seek to redeem himself, unlike Howe or other villains. (Not that I'm really a supporter of revenge disguised as justice, but in the harsh setting of this game it makes sense.)

I suppose the only area we differ is on Alistair's outburst being an undesirable trait. Were Alistair a real person I would beat some sense into him and if that failed, stop him from running off one way or another until he'd calmed down, but within the limitations of the game and also taking into account Ferelden's more 'barbaric' laws and expectations, I think Alistair was reacting in the only way he knew how and that made sense to him. Behind all the humour and insecurities, he's a passionate man who has very strong ideals and a sense of justice. When these ideals are compromised he has great difficulty in making sense of where right and wrong begin and end - which is, in essence, part of the whole Dragon Age experience with the impact upon the grey areas found in all situations.

I personally feel that his out burst was understandable but not terribly mature or well thought out. However, it was very human and also very Alistair-ish, a clear and believable fault of his which makes him all the more appealing to me as he is by no means mister perfect, nor does he pretend to be. He's a good man, which is why it frustrated me all the more that you couldn't take a moment to talk to him in more depth about sparing Loghain. I think that with a little time to calm down he'd have seen the reason behind it, even if he wasn't very happy about it. My only way to get around all this was simply to let Alistair be the one to duel Loghain and kill him out right because my charater's lack of ability to talk to Alistair otherwise seemed rather contrived for the sake of the game.

Really, I understand what bothers you about Alistair's character. Whiny, needy guys who take, take, take and emotionally and mentally drain whoever is supporting them drive me absolutely insane. However, I never got this impression with Alistair. To me he was just a man who needed a little push in the right direction and once he found his footing would do really well for himself. He had it in him, he just needed some help finding it.

#167
Ravauviel

Ravauviel
  • Members
  • 60 messages

Monkeylamp wrote...

Oghren and dog are the best companions a guy can have. Nice to have sombody with same views on drinking, food and hygene tag along!
Oghren thats a real manly man guy! Yay for Oghren!


:blink:

LOL!

#168
Riona45

Riona45
  • Members
  • 3 158 messages

red8x wrote...

I really did not like Alistair. He was an obedient puppy-dog. As I try to think of a reason why he has so much appeal I can only guess it's because he is a virgin and the female PC gets to be his first giving a sense of empowerment and at the same time, since he is so helpless and clueless, he invokes a motherly love. Definitely Freudian.


I wouldn't care one bit if Alistair wasn't a virgin, actually.  Being his first is nice, but for me, that's not necessarily his "selling point."

#169
Riona45

Riona45
  • Members
  • 3 158 messages

Axterix wrote...


Same.  I'm not sure I'd pay complete attention to what she's saying, but I would enjoy listening to her say whatever it is that she is saying.  That and she has an innocence to her, inspite of her seductress, spy, assassin background.  Just like women like something to nurture, guys like something to protect.


*chuckle*  I'm a straight female and even I feel moved to protect and defend Leliana.  I'm quite fond of her.

#170
DariusKalera

DariusKalera
  • Members
  • 317 messages

Oghren is AWESOME.  But kind of a one trick pony.  Alistair had a lot more range.

And it's more than that.  I saw somewhere that the writers for Alistair based him in part on Xander in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly.

I see it and they sold it.  The sad part is though...Alistair himself is nowhere near as strong a character as Xander or Malcolm.  They gave him all the charm and funny...they tragically left out the major things that made Xander and Malcolm so compelling.

Putting that bit in his character where Chantry or social dogma overruled his heart is where Alistair was oversold to his audience.

I can forgive that, really.  Seeing how the writers constructed him, and how WELL Steve Valentine sold him, I get it.

Funny thing is, I've seen Steve Valentine, didn't do a thing for me.  "No way, he was the host of "Estate of Panic?"  Entirely forgettable.  And I've always thought Claudia Black completely stood out in anything she did from every SciFi (I refuse to say SyFy) cameo to Pitch Black.

So it's the context.


I can see the Xander in him, but not the Malcolm Reynolds.  I really can't see Alistair walking up to a guy and stabbing him in the head and continue on without batting an eye. (Ok, Mal shot the guy and continued on, but same deal)  Not even after he's been hardened by the story line.

Maybe if Bioware had put alot more of Mal's darkness into Alistair, I would have liked him better.

#171
.Faine

.Faine
  • Members
  • 64 messages

Riona45 wrote...

Axterix wrote...


Same.  I'm not sure I'd pay complete attention to what she's saying, but I would enjoy listening to her say whatever it is that she is saying.  That and she has an innocence to her, inspite of her seductress, spy, assassin background.  Just like women like something to nurture, guys like something to protect.


*chuckle*  I'm a straight female and even I feel moved to protect and defend Leliana.  I'm quite fond of her.


Me too. I was pleasantly surprised by Lelianna, I had suspected she'd be the kind of personality that would begin to get on my nerves. I was wrong. (:

#172
LdyShayna

LdyShayna
  • Members
  • 618 messages

red8x wrote...

I really did not like Alistair. He was an obedient puppy-dog. As I try to think of a reason why he has so much appeal I can only guess it's because he is a virgin and the female PC gets to be his first giving a sense of empowerment and at the same time, since he is so helpless and clueless, he invokes a motherly love. Definitely Freudian.
.


Completely incorrect.  Do please read what some of the women who like the character have ACTUALLY said about what they like about him, rather than ascribing some really disturbing motivations to them out of the blue.  Thanks. 

#173
AegisArete

AegisArete
  • Members
  • 10 messages
I just hope this gets all the yahoos who go around saying "women want bad boys" and "nice guys finish last" and all that nonsense to reconsider their positions. This thread would seem to be laden with quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

#174
Monkeylamp

Monkeylamp
  • Members
  • 9 messages

Ravauviel wrote...

Monkeylamp wrote...

Oghren and dog are the best companions a guy can have. Nice to have sombody with same views on drinking, food and hygene tag along!
Oghren thats a real manly man guy! Yay for Oghren!


:blink:

LOL!


Tru story:
I worked at this warehouse, pretty heavy job vegetables and fruits. And i got this working suit, a warm one since temp was between 6 and 11 degrees celsius. Mind you it was a pretty heavy job and i worked up quite a sweat every time i worked. You could always change suit but just for the hell of it i didnt change it for 2 years i worked there(was just part time tho but still alot of work) untill one of my bosses walked past me and went: "what the F***k is that smell???? Was easy to figure out what it was since i was dirty as a hobo! Man i still laugh when i remember it.
Hm i guess every man has a Oghren inside of him.

#175
Monkeylamp

Monkeylamp
  • Members
  • 9 messages

Modifié par Monkeylamp, 30 novembre 2009 - 11:04 .