63 réponses à ce sujet

[MartialArtsSurfer]

EDIT: I just thought of & remembered something:

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!" LOL

What if the common repeats of the packs is a shortcut/intended feature to save processor cycles/memory usage on overloaded servers because, as much as I love Mass Effect 3 as one of the best games ever & think Bioware is one of the best gaming companies around:

1) EA reported Mass Effect 3 sold over 1 MILLION copies & shipped 3.5 MILLION copies in just the FIRST WEEK.. it's gone up even more in the past 3 weeks

2) With millions of players trying to connect to the EA servers/store, it bogs down & slows the servers (or server powered by a gerbil running on treadmill),--notice the delay when accessing the EA store & delay after buying a pack?
Resulting in the common disconnects & store errors due to the server(s) being overloaded (just like you get 404 errors when trying to access a server that has too many visitors accessing it)

3) To cut down operating costs & increase profits, instead spending millions on more servers/bandwith, EA tries to save processor cycles, time, & memory usage so
INSTEAD of initiating & creating new Random Number Generator calls for each request from millions of players every second/minute, it instead just generates ONE Random Number seed every few minutes
or
few seconds & uses that same number for the players and/or multiplies it by the players serial license key or whatever
--this is faster & saves millions of random number generator function calls, memory registers, & processor cycles & reduces the need for more new servers

A news report showed that Google has over 200,000 servers & can afford it. EA doesnt'.. in the interests of maximizing profit & cutting costs, is the above possible?

Hmm, Day 1 paid downloadable content & a pay-to-play casino EA store & pay for an Online Pass if you want to play online if you bought it used shows that EA is primarily profit motivated like most other public corporations where shareholder dividends & stock price matters most, which is fine & the name of the game in business --so I don't hold any illusions over it
=

In consumer computer programs, the RNG really isn't random because it's based off of a seed value, usually the computer clock. 

The game uses a Psuedo-Random Number Generator (RNG) based off of a mathematical formula like any other computer program, with a seed value usually taken from the computer's clock (not sure if the server's clock or your computer clock) so if you want to avoid repeats, buy stuff at a different time.

It seems people get more repeats if they buy lots of packs at the same time instead of 1 & then later at a different time.(PROBABLY BECAUSE THE RNG CODE  IS BUGGY-- including the server code)

Stuff like the same characters, shotguns, widows at the same time 4 in a row ... they mostly were bought at the same time, especially since people play at the same times...

so if you don't like what you get in a pack buying it at 6 PM, buy your next pack at a different time like 11 PM or 9 AM

On the other hand, if you like what you get, buy them at the same time

It seems true for most of the people I know... true for you also?

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 30 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[zarkon]

But we don't know what's used as seed and have no way of finding out since that stuff is server side.

[Currylaksa]

Unless the programmers are really derp, even a small time difference between purchases would generate wildly different RNG results.

[MartialArtsSurfer]

right, and the seed is probably the computer's clock (probably the server's clock) from all the posts & experiences with me & my friends getting the same items when we buy 2 packs in a row or at about the same time

(I usually play at night, buy packs at night & notice that when I buy in daytime, I usually don't get the same stuff I already have whereas if around nighttime when I usually play/buy, I tend to get more repeats of stuff I have)

It would be good to experiment & report your results because it seems my experimentation with me & my friends/cousins have similar anecdotes --ie, more repeats at same time, less repeats at different times

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 22 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[Ayeba]

You should be careful with your assumptions there. If I get two identical character or weapon upgrades in a row, that does not necessarily mean it wasn't random. Random doesn't mean getting the same item two (or even five) times in a row won't happen. In fact, it will, and the human mind will remember that much more clearly than all the streaks where you didn't get the same item multiple times.

Also consider that there seem to be one race for each class on Uncommon unlocks. So if you do get two characters in a row, it might be something like 1/6th chance of getting the same character twice.

Bottom line, I don't think people should pay too much attention to it unless it happens excessively often (not just once in a while) unless people start collecting statistics.

[Crimson-Engage]

False for me. I used real money the other day and purchased around 20 Specter packs. I didn't get any duplicates except for two widows and attachments. The rest were N7 weapons a Tempast that i didn't have and other supplies. All purchased at the same time.

Modifié par Crimson-Engage, 22 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[Axlesauce]

At the very least, it's something to consider. I'll try buying one tonight and leaving one for tomorrow. Couldn't hurt, right?

Modifié par Axlesauce, 22 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[xephyris]

Obligatory XKCD:
http://xkcd.com/221/

[RSOG]

As a programmer, this post is BS.

Yes, the seed value for the RNG is typically determined by the computer clock - either the number of seconds since January 1, 1970, or the number of milliseconds since the computer (the server, in this case) was last rebooted.

However, similar seed values don't guarantee similar results. That's one of the requirements for an RNG to be considered random. Even incrementing the seed value by one would result in a completely random and independent second unlock.

Second, a random number generator doesn't generate a new seed value every time the clock updates. Typically, the random number generator is only seeded once when the program starts running. It then generates an infinite sequence of pseudo-random numbers from that seed, and takes the "next" one each time a random number is requested.

Here is the source code for a simple C program that will prove the OP wrong.

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>

int main()
{
int i;
int results[10];
int rnd;

srand(time(NULL)); // seed the RNG with the number of seconds since the unix epoch

// Generate 100000 random numbers and measure their distribution.
for(i = 0; i < 100000; ++i)
{
rnd = rand() % 10;
results[rnd]++;
}

for(i = 0; i < 10; ++i)
{
// Print the results, one per line.
printf("%d: %d\\n", i, results[i]);
}
}

(Hopefully I didn't make any silly errors, I'm on my Windows partition right now and don't have a C compiler installed to check myself)

Compile that (assuming it compiles). Run it several times at various times of day. I expect that you will find that the time of day has nothing to do with the distribution of the results.

[edit]: PS. You are more likely to get ultra rares on the full moon. Trufax.

Modifié par RSOG, 22 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[Kuosi]

Also the server platform plays a part in how random works and I don't have mingw installed at work either so can't try if that works but I don't see why it wouldn't

[Ravenear]

My idea to get better items is:
1. buy Recruit Pack until you will get all basic weapons on X level - on Veteran Pack's & Spectre Pack's you will not get crapy unlocks of basic weapons; it's fast step.
2, buy Veteran Pack (Premium Veteran Pack) until you will get all uncommon weapons on X level & weapon modifications on V level - right now im on this step i have unlocked all uncommon weapons on X level and trying to unlock all uncommon weapon modifications on V level
This is my way

[eshrafel]

The random number generator in the Microsoft runtime C library was pretty useless -- it generated extremely biased results due to repeating sequences of numbers. That said, I found it still only did it after several *thousand* cycles, which is not really a problem here. If you're using a Mersenne algorithm, it is going to be as random as you can get. The chance of getting the same unlock in a row is a lot higher than people think, and is statistically insignificant. If people start getting the same thing 30+ times in a row, you should probably start to worry.

[Kleinerakker]

Ravenear wrote...

My idea to get better items is:
1. buy Recruit Pack until you will get all basic weapons on X level - on Veteran Pack's & Spectre Pack's you will not get crapy unlocks of basic weapons; it's fast step.
2, buy Veteran Pack (Premium Veteran Pack) until you will get all uncommon weapons on X level & weapon modifications on V level - right now im on this step i have unlocked all uncommon weapons on X level and trying to unlock all uncommon weapon modifications on V level
This is my way

what he/she is doing is in my humble opinion the best method to get the best out of specter packs, it takes time but it will be less frustrations when you open a specter pack.

[Aerius]

I'm sure you can safely expect to never be influenced by the random number generator. This topic (random number generation) has been discussed widely in both research environments as the university as in professional environments since decades. And while there are still issues with "real random number generation", the algorithms are random enough for day-to-day use in any kind of game you will ever play.
That means, you, as a customer and user, will never be biased and/or influenced by that algorithm (unless bioware devs aren't worth their money, and seeing how the gaming industry competes for the best programmers [and seeing what a hard time I have breaking into it], I really, really doubt that). Even if you would be able to predict exactely what kind of time and/or seed is used (what you are not), even if you would be able to predict which number generates which result in unlocking (which you are not), network latency would still screw any kind of calculations for you. The difference between, say, 5 and 6 milliseconds network latency should be huge enough already.

Modifié par Aerius, 22 mars 2012 - 11:05 .

[Dire Wombat]

Ravenear wrote...

My idea to get better items is:
1. buy Recruit Pack until you will get all basic weapons on X level - on Veteran Pack's & Spectre Pack's you will not get crapy unlocks of basic weapons; it's fast step.
2, buy Veteran Pack (Premium Veteran Pack) until you will get all uncommon weapons on X level & weapon modifications on V level - right now im on this step i have unlocked all uncommon weapons on X level and trying to unlock all uncommon weapon modifications on V level
This is my way

I like this idea, but are we sure it works?

Depending on how the items are chosen, maxing all common/uncommon weapons and mods should either cause you to get more rare items, OR lead to you getting the same number of commons/uncommons, just none of them being weapons.  i.e., it might work, or it might just cause you to get more useless class unlocks.

Does anyone have hard data on this?

[Kleinerakker]

Dire Wombat wrote...

Ravenear wrote...

My idea to get better items is:
1. buy Recruit Pack until you will get all basic weapons on X level - on Veteran Pack's & Spectre Pack's you will not get crapy unlocks of basic weapons; it's fast step.
2, buy Veteran Pack (Premium Veteran Pack) until you will get all uncommon weapons on X level & weapon modifications on V level - right now im on this step i have unlocked all uncommon weapons on X level and trying to unlock all uncommon weapon modifications on V level
This is my way

I like this idea, but are we sure it works?

Depending on how the items are chosen, maxing all common/uncommon weapons and mods should either cause you to get more rare items, OR lead to you getting the same number of commons/uncommons, just none of them being weapons.  i.e., it might work, or it might just cause you to get more useless class unlocks.

Does anyone have hard data on this?

think of it as a pool of items, by picking up all the common ones first so the weapons and the weapon mods that are common are not going to make an apear in your specter pack then. so by fishing all the small first makes it easier to get the bigger fish XD

[vivanto]

Currylaksa wrote...

Unless the programmers are really derp, even a small time difference between purchases would generate wildly different RNG results.

That, and subsequent calls made to the same generator entity will still result in a different number being returned. Add to that that generator seeds like this usually use processor cycle count, not just a mundane clock, so pretty much impossible to create 2 identical seeds, no matter how hard you try.

[BraveLToaster]

Kleinerakker wrote...

Dire Wombat wrote...

I like this idea, but are we sure it works?

Depending on how the items are chosen, maxing all common/uncommon weapons and mods should either cause you to get more rare items, OR lead to you getting the same number of commons/uncommons, just none of them being weapons. i.e., it might work, or it might just cause you to get more useless class unlocks.

Does anyone have hard data on this?

think of it as a pool of items, by picking up all the common ones first so the weapons and the weapon mods that are common are not going to make an apear in your specter pack then. so by fishing all the small first makes it easier to get the bigger fish XD

The issue Wombat was raising was whether it actually increases odds of uncommons/rares in slots 3 and 4 of Spectre packs or if it simply increases the odds of equipment or common character training in those slots.

[Whiskey Jay]

I will try this and hope it works.

I am so sick of getting human training...

[Autochthon]

You get human training because it' a common drop.

As for everything else: Buy pack 2-3 minutes apart and you'll mitigate any "seed streaks"

[Notorious McG]

I haven't really had enough credits/MSP to test this theory on more than a few packs, but when I had 130k credits or so 2 nights ago, I bought 2 Spectre Packs... I got 2 Claymore upgrades back to back. Useful for my Krogan, so not the end of the world.

2100 MSP to spend this evening, and I cba spreading out the purchases. Let's see where I get with 10 Spectre Packs and a few of the promo Veterans.

[Lionheartwolf]

ugh i swear i see it in every game with any sort of random loot element. these kinds of theories are for people who are control freaks and refuse to believe they have no control over what they get.

you are never going to find a way to win the win everytime you roll the dice. (if you did you would be playing a different game that involves making money not spending it.) just give it up and play the game the way it was meant. if you dont like getting the same things over and over then move onto a different game. like it or not that is what this game does. be honest with yourself if you are complaining that much about it then you are not having fun, if you insist you are having fun then focus on that and stop complaining about it because its doing its job right.

[tonyng9]

As long as you buy items more than a millisecond apart, you will be fine. The Pseudo random number generators in all the standard coding libraries are random enough. Repeats happen, if it didn't happen then it isn't random!

[kmmd60]

Repeats happened when you open vet/premium vet and got your 20 Drell adept.

[MassEffectOnMe]

Ravenear wrote...

My idea to get better items is:
1. buy Recruit Pack until you will get all basic weapons on X level - on Veteran Pack's & Spectre Pack's you will not get crapy unlocks of basic weapons; it's fast step.
2, buy Veteran Pack (Premium Veteran Pack) until you will get all uncommon weapons on X level & weapon modifications on V level - right now im on this step i have unlocked all uncommon weapons on X level and trying to unlock all uncommon weapon modifications on V level
This is my way

This idea is so crazy...it just might work! I'll try this out.