132 réponses à ce sujet

[batlin]

But when fans demand changes in a game, it "violates artistic integrity"?

The only difference I see here is that publisher demands force changes while fan demands have no real influence.

Modifié par batlin, 22 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[batlin]

bump

[Mercedonius]

Funny how no one truly contemplates what artistic integrity truly entails, just how idealistic it is, and what is actually done in reality.

I want to see a panel of philosophy majors, artists, scientists (theoretical and experimental), and engineering majors discuss the definition, truth, and viability of artistic integrity. Would be a worthwhile discussion since the term is thrown around alot with little thought in this situation.

[batlin]

Yeah. Something tells me "artistic integrity" doesn't necessarily protect gaping plot holes.

[Tazzmission]

hey op i have a question


did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

Modifié par batlin, 22 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[G3rman]

There is a difference between criticizing a game from a developer standpoint and a player standpoint. Two very different views, but in the end the players opinion is one that matters the most, at least if they want to make money. At the same time, they must leverage player need with their own vision in which they want the product to go.

Tricky business, its why a lot of studios close with flops of games, they made the game they wanted perhaps but it did not get the right following.

[Mercedonius]

By no means. Bioware employees are human presumably and no human is immune from plot holes in their story telling. The short development cycle only adds to this possibility.

Artistic integrity seems to imply an innate perfection or meaning in any completed work. This may apply more to more abstract creations but certainly would not apply to books, movies, or video games especially when they are sold as a product with profit margins and bottom lines involved.

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Tazzmission]

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Chromie]

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

[Mercedonius]

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Even if you paid for the product and are therefore partly responsible for the creators existance?

And are you okay with the publisher demanding a change in the creation?

And in no way is this about 'demanding' anyhing. The forum goers can not force bioware to change the ending, they merely beg, plead, and provide constructive criticism which is within their rights if I recall correctly.

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[Tazzmission]

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[Banelash]

well you are missing the point in this post tazz. If EA suddenly says, "hey bioware, you gotta change your ending", do you think bioware will tell EA to GTFO or compromise their artistic integrity.

[Ethical]

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

What exactly is he asking? He has not asked anything so far....

[Swords and Lasers]

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

^This^  

The company has to have the resources to make the game and the publisher pays for them. Yeah, fans can effect future sales but really have no rights to the IP. In the end the publisher has the right to demand/request changes.

[Cyph3rX]

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

This kids a troll, stop feeding him.

Modifié par Cyph3rX, 22 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Buffy-Summers]

I think they are getting closer and closer to folding. This new "artistic integrity" angle is just another way to say we dont want to create free and better endings. We like the ending. We are sorry the public is too dumb to understand our bittersweet victory ending but thats their fault.

[Mercedonius]

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

If you honestly can't see a difference between the two groups, then... man, I don't even know.

[Tazzmission]

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 years of written lore


when i see people say omg the me3 ending just killed the franchise i feel like yes they do over react because they have to find the right thing to stay a fan

the story of the game is great i dont think anyone can argue that but to let a 10 minute ending be the big outcry to just codemn the whole franchise is just wrong imo

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[Mercedonius]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you honestly can't see a difference between the two groups, then... man, I don't even know.

That's not the point, the point is 'artistic integrity' is not a true couterpoint to the fans outcry for a different ending. 

Obviously $$ can influence people to do many things... including prostitution. 

[Basher of Glory]

Artistic integrity is fine, if the artist just gave some general pointers about his next work, e.g.
"In ME 3 you will finally fight the Reapers. You must rally all species in the known galaxy, otherwise..."

But they gave us specific promises, like
"In Me 3 you will
1)...
2)...
3)...
etc."

amd - not only in my opinion - delivered something totally different - of course only in regard of the endings.

That has nothing to do with said artistic integrity. It's more like a painter who promised to deliver a portrait and you get a painting with your original body but with Donald Duck's head.
I'd feel a bit pranked.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 22 mars 2012 - 08:10 .