132 réponses à ce sujet

[Mercedonius]

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 tears of written lore

To the contrary, I think it is bad consumerism to not have expectations or requirements when I purchase a prodcut. This works differently for different mediums. If I buy a car and the steering doesn't work, I can ask for a refund or replacement. For a movie, the trailers actually can be a good judge for how well the movie is ( atleast in my experience) and movie theaters do offer refunds for disgruntled customers and I am not against that.

For a game neither trailers or demos are often a good measure for what the game is especially when the ending is conscerned and for a story based game this is important. Although I do not think a refund is warranted in this situation for most people since Mass Effect for me and many others was enjoyable up to the ending which definately has value. As a consumer though people should definately voice their opinions on what they liked and what should be changed since this has proven a good method for improvement. Bioware has gone by fan feedback before so I don't see why this should be changed now...

[Mercedonius]

The PLC wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you honestly can't see a difference between the two groups, then... man, I don't even know.

That's not the point, the point is 'artistic integrity' is not a true couterpoint to the fans outcry for a different ending. 

Obviously $$ can influence people to do many things... including prostitution. 

Prostitution and vidijagaem developement is comparable... oh yes, this is BSN.

Of course, game developement involves a bunch of people prostituting both their bodies and their minds for $$ I thought everyone knew this?

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Tazzmission]

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 tears of written lore

To the contrary, I think it is bad consumerism to not have expectations or requirements when I purchase a prodcut. This works differently for different mediums. If I buy a car and the steering doesn't work, I can ask for a refund or replacement. For a movie, the trailers actually can be a good judge for how well the movie is ( atleast in my experience) and movie theaters do offer refunds for disgruntled customers and I am not against that.

For a game neither trailers or demos are often a good measure for what the game is especially when the ending is conscerned and for a story based game this is important. Although I do not think a refund is warranted in this situation for most people since Mass Effect for me and many others was enjoyable up to the ending which definately has value. As a consumer though people should definately voice their opinions on what they liked and what should be changed since this has proven a good method for improvement. Bioware has gone by fan feedback before so I don't see why this should be changed now...

see me as a gamer music lover and movie goer i dont read reviews because i have to judge something for myself

i dont allow myself to go see something based on someone elses opinion

there have been new people on this board asking for advice if they should play me3 or not and i have told them just because i loved it i feel they should rent it because they may or may not like it and they can take it back without losing 60 bucks.

i cant force myself to tell anyone ok this this and this is great and tell them to go buy it

its like people dont go by there own judgment anymore and basicly count on reviews to make that decision for them.

im not saying reviews are bad im just saying dont always use one as a way to make a final decision on something

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 08:23 .

[batlin]

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

And the customer pays the publisher. What's the difference?

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Customers have the right to complain if they feel they were given a sub-standard product. This is by no means a new thing in consumerism. And furthermore, Bioware isn't forced to do anything the fans say.

Modifié par batlin, 22 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[Tazzmission]

batlin wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

And the customer pays the publisher. What's the difference?

the publisher can say you know what no dlc at all and no ending fix

be gratefull for what you get because that can indeed happen

i know i would do that if fans treated me like that

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

the publisher can say you know what no dlc at all and no ending fix

be gratefull for what you get because that can indeed happen

i know i would do that if fans treated me like that

Thankfully you aren't because that would spell doom for Bioware's brand loyalty.

[Tazzmission]

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

the publisher can say you know what no dlc at all and no ending fix

be gratefull for what you get because that can indeed happen

i know i would do that if fans treated me like that

Thankfully you aren't because that would spell doom for Bioware's brand loyalty.

this coming from someone who believes everything should be handed to him on a silver platter for free

like i said it works both ways kid

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[lokiarchetype]

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

And the customer pays the publisher. What's the difference?

the publisher can say you know what no dlc at all and no ending fix

be gratefull for what you get because that can indeed happen

i know i would do that if fans treated me like that

I know what you would do too

- Not be a successful business person.

Being uncompromising and alienating your customer base tends to not work out very well in the long run.

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

this coming from someone who believes everything should be handed to him on a silver platter for free

like i said it works both ways kid

Excuse me, but what? Where did I say everything should be free?

[HenchxNarf]

The PLC wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If you honestly can't see a difference between the two groups, then... man, I don't even know.

That's not the point, the point is 'artistic integrity' is not a true couterpoint to the fans outcry for a different ending. 

Obviously $$ can influence people to do many things... including prostitution. 

Prostitution and vidijagaem developement is comparable... oh yes, this is BSN.

Did someone just compare this to prostitution?

[Tazzmission]

lokiarchetype wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

And the customer pays the publisher. What's the difference?

the publisher can say you know what no dlc at all and no ending fix

be gratefull for what you get because that can indeed happen

i know i would do that if fans treated me like that

I know what you would do too

- Not be a successful business person.

Being uncompromising and alienating your customer base tends to not work out very well in the long run.

so wait you think someone deserves a dlc after demanding a person be terminated?

you really think you are in the right there?

heck if you call me a lazy writter why should that entitle you to anything?

[Xandax]

Artistic integrity and 'it's art' is only used as defence when they've bait n' switched product on their customers and got caught doing it.

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

so wait you think someone deserves a dlc after demanding a person be terminated?

you really think you are in the right there?

heck if you call me a lazy writter why should that entitle you to anything?

Because if you continue to disappoint your fans, pretty soon you won't have any.

Modifié par batlin, 22 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Tazzmission]

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

so wait you think someone deserves a dlc after demanding a person be terminated?

you really think you are in the right there?

heck if you call me a lazy writter why should that entitle you to anything?

Because if you continue to disappoint your fans, pretty soon you won't have any.

and like i said the devs are to nice on you guys and you take advantage of them

you should be gratefull they take the crap you spew at them because like i said a few posts above if you talked to me like that you would be gone in a second for good



internet or not consumer or not being disrespectfull dosent fix anything

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Mercedonius]

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 tears of written lore

To the contrary, I think it is bad consumerism to not have expectations or requirements when I purchase a prodcut. This works differently for different mediums. If I buy a car and the steering doesn't work, I can ask for a refund or replacement. For a movie, the trailers actually can be a good judge for how well the movie is ( atleast in my experience) and movie theaters do offer refunds for disgruntled customers and I am not against that.

For a game neither trailers or demos are often a good measure for what the game is especially when the ending is conscerned and for a story based game this is important. Although I do not think a refund is warranted in this situation for most people since Mass Effect for me and many others was enjoyable up to the ending which definately has value. As a consumer though people should definately voice their opinions on what they liked and what should be changed since this has proven a good method for improvement. Bioware has gone by fan feedback before so I don't see why this should be changed now...

see me as a gamer music lover and movie goer i dont read reviews because i have to judge something for myself

i dont allow myself to go see something based on someone elses opinion

there have been new people on this board asking for advice if they should play me3 or not and i have told them just because i loved it i feel they should rent it because they may or may not like it and they can take it back without losing 60 bucks.

i cant force myself to tell anyone ok this this and this is great and tell them to go buy it

its like people dont go by there own judgment anymore and basicly count on reviews to make that decision for them.

im not saying reviews are bad im just saying dont always use one as a way to make a final decision on something

Yes there is no metric better than judging a product for yourself, but when time and money are involved I simply can't judge every movie or game for myself and have to go by someone else's opinions and/or my judgement of the previews, demos etc. 

This is where it takes practice and refinement to get a metric for yourself by which you can properly judge something. You have to find reviewers and friends whose opinions you trust/respect/agree with generally and research the movie or game you are interested in. Just like you learn in academia you have to cross reference your sources and come up with the best solution with how to spend your time and money for optimal enjoyment. Being a disciplined consumer does take time, energy, and a bit of trial and error but I think it is important in a captalistic society. This however gets distorted when a game gets false advertising and why there is consumer protection laws for this matter.

With regards to Mass Effect 3 there is at least one easily arguable case of false advertising when it comes to Casey Hudson's description of the endings not being an A, B, or C choice.

This falls into a grey area for me since I think a case has to be argued as to how much PR and news articles should be blamed for false advertising, however, I don't think Mass Effect 3 deserves a refund for most people since most genuinley enjoyed it till the ending. 

I do think it is within their rights to voice their opinions on the game and specifically whether they want the ending changed or not since this is being a good consumer and how people can better themselves when they recieve contructive criticism. 

I mean if I don't like the ending and you don't like the ending and Bioware can change it, why not? We can't force them it should be their decision but proper discourse between developers and fans can lead to better games which in the bottom line is all we really want. 

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

and like i said the devs are to nice on you guys and you take advantage of them

Take advantage of them how, by having valid complaints about a product, expressing distaste about false advertising and asking for better quality?

you should be gratefull they take the crap you spew at them because like i said a few posts above if you talked to me like that you would be gone in a second for good

Which is probably why you'll never be a successful businessman.

Modifié par batlin, 22 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[phouria]

G3rman wrote...

There is a difference between criticizing a game from a developer standpoint and a player standpoint. Two very different views, but in the end the players opinion is one that matters the most, at least if they want to make money. At the same time, they must leverage player need with their own vision in which they want the product to go.

Tricky business, its why a lot of studios close with flops of games, they made the game they wanted perhaps but it did not get the right following.

it's a combination of things with no true answer because each one is different.

on one hand you have the Big Suits with tons of focus and playtests put their hand in the cookie jar and completely ruin it. On the other hand you'll have a bad bad bad team that just wants to "Get the game out" cuz it's their day in day out job. There's also overeaching, promising a crapton of stuff only to discover they dont have the time or resources to do so - so they cut corners. If a game is made with a lot of heart and passion, then it's mroe likely to do well.

A majority of the time tho... its just the big suits coming in dictating the direction. Sometimes indirectly (ie setting inadequate deadlines that causes the team to cut corners).

Modifié par phouria, 22 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[Tazzmission]

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Mercedonius wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

Too bad we're getting something better.

and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube

Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 tears of written lore

To the contrary, I think it is bad consumerism to not have expectations or requirements when I purchase a prodcut. This works differently for different mediums. If I buy a car and the steering doesn't work, I can ask for a refund or replacement. For a movie, the trailers actually can be a good judge for how well the movie is ( atleast in my experience) and movie theaters do offer refunds for disgruntled customers and I am not against that.

For a game neither trailers or demos are often a good measure for what the game is especially when the ending is conscerned and for a story based game this is important. Although I do not think a refund is warranted in this situation for most people since Mass Effect for me and many others was enjoyable up to the ending which definately has value. As a consumer though people should definately voice their opinions on what they liked and what should be changed since this has proven a good method for improvement. Bioware has gone by fan feedback before so I don't see why this should be changed now...

see me as a gamer music lover and movie goer i dont read reviews because i have to judge something for myself

i dont allow myself to go see something based on someone elses opinion

there have been new people on this board asking for advice if they should play me3 or not and i have told them just because i loved it i feel they should rent it because they may or may not like it and they can take it back without losing 60 bucks.

i cant force myself to tell anyone ok this this and this is great and tell them to go buy it

its like people dont go by there own judgment anymore and basicly count on reviews to make that decision for them.

im not saying reviews are bad im just saying dont always use one as a way to make a final decision on something

Yes there is no metric better than judging a product for yourself, but when time and money are involved I simply can't judge every movie or game for myself and have to go by someone else's opinions and/or my judgement of the previews, demos etc. 

This is where it takes practice and refinement to get a metric for yourself by which you can properly judge something. You have to find reviewers and friends whose opinions you trust/respect/agree with generally and research the movie or game you are interested in. Just like you learn in academia you have to cross reference your sources and come up with the best solution with how to spend your time and money for optimal enjoyment. Being a disciplined consumer does take time, energy, and a bit of trial and error but I think it is important in a captalistic society. This however gets distorted when a game gets false advertising and why there is consumer protection laws for this matter.

With regards to Mass Effect 3 there is at least one easily arguable case of false advertising when it comes to Casey Hudson's description of the endings not being an A, B, or C choice.

This falls into a grey area for me since I think a case has to be argued as to how much PR and news articles should be blamed for false advertising, however, I don't think Mass Effect 3 deserves a refund for most people since most genuinly enjoyed till the ending. 

I do think it is within their rights to voice their opinions on the game and specifically whether they want the ending changed or not since this is being a good consumer and how people can better themselves when they recieve contructive criticism. 

I mean if I don't like the ending and you don't like the ending and Bioware can change it, why not? We can't force them it should be their decision but proper discourse between developers and fans can lead to better games which in the bottom line is all we really want. 

ive been vocal alot latley because i feel the people who hate the endings are going to ruin something someone new may like

dont get me wrong im all for protesting if done correctly and civil

some have been but a majority of them have been harsh and that shouldnt be denied

if people really want to protest heres what you do

never involve the fed for starters

law suites dont work

writting letters in a constructive civil manner is good

not buying future dlc is good

now imo for those who feel this strongly on not just bioware but ea and are that much in a protest maybe they should leave the boards also since it is a ea bioware website

thats how you send a message because continuing to basicly trash other posters who want nothing to do with your argument wont get you no where


even if it was 1 or 2 people who demanded the firings of casey and mac imo isnt cool or smart either

im saying this not as a mass effect fan but as a gamer but should i or anyone else have to suffer because the take back movment cant just leave and protest somewhere else?

is it fair for me and others to now have to fight tooth and nail and say we arent apart of your group?

you may think it isnt doing damage to the community but it is


i feel now the term gamer is a bad thing because of this mess

Modifié par Tazzmission, 22 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[Megakoresh]

The PLC wrote...

Well, the publisher is paying for the game to be released.

And our money is the one they get. If the game is not up to our expectation because we were being lied to, it is the both the publisher and the developer who suffer. If BioWare does't provide a fix for this mess, there is no WAY their reputation is going to stay where it was. It will fall. And fall dramatically.
I mean 99% of Mass Effect 3 was fantastic. But it is not the reviewer that cares how it ends. Not the publisher either. The fans do. And it's only us, the customers, that will judge the whole product. And not it's part, not matter how big.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 22 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

ive been vocal alot latley because i feel the people who hate the endings are going to ruin something someone new may like

dont get me wrong im all for protesting if done correctly and civil

some have been but a majority of them have been harsh and that shouldnt be denied

if people really want to protest heres what you do

never involve the fed for starters

law suites dont work

writting letters in a constructive civil manner is good

not buying future dlc is good

now imo for those who feel this strongly on not just bioware but ea and are that much in a protest maybe they should leave the boards also since it is a ea bioware website

thats how you send a message because continuing to basicly trash other posters who want nothing to do with your argument wont get you no where


even if it was 1 or 2 people who demanded the firings of casey and mac imo isnt cool or smart either

im saying this not as a mass effect fan but as a gamer but should i or anyone else have to suffer because the take back movment cant just leave and protest somewhere else?

is it fair for me and others to now have to fight tooth and nail and say we arent apart of your group?

you may think it isnt doing damage to the community but it is


i feel now the term gamer is a bad thing because of this mess

Looks to me like you're only referring to a fringe part of the fanbase. I personally have seen no calls for anyone to be fired or anything similar to that, and to disregard the fans' wishes just because of them would be incredibly stupid.

[Tazzmission]

batlin wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

ive been vocal alot latley because i feel the people who hate the endings are going to ruin something someone new may like

dont get me wrong im all for protesting if done correctly and civil

some have been but a majority of them have been harsh and that shouldnt be denied

if people really want to protest heres what you do

never involve the fed for starters

law suites dont work

writting letters in a constructive civil manner is good

not buying future dlc is good

now imo for those who feel this strongly on not just bioware but ea and are that much in a protest maybe they should leave the boards also since it is a ea bioware website

thats how you send a message because continuing to basicly trash other posters who want nothing to do with your argument wont get you no where


even if it was 1 or 2 people who demanded the firings of casey and mac imo isnt cool or smart either

im saying this not as a mass effect fan but as a gamer but should i or anyone else have to suffer because the take back movment cant just leave and protest somewhere else?

is it fair for me and others to now have to fight tooth and nail and say we arent apart of your group?

you may think it isnt doing damage to the community but it is


i feel now the term gamer is a bad thing because of this mess

Looks to me like you're only referring to a fringe part of the fanbase. I personally have seen no calls for anyone to be fired or anything similar to that, and to disregard the fans' wishes just because of them would be incredibly stupid.

you must have missed it because it was like i believe 4 nights ago someone demanded casey to be fired

and i think it was like a week ago someone asked the same regarding mac

it all went down in the spoiler section of the forum

[batlin]

Tazzmission wrote...

you must have missed it because it was like i believe 4 nights ago someone demanded casey to be fired

and i think it was like a week ago someone asked the same regarding mac

it all went down in the spoiler section of the forum

Oh wow, a grand total of two people said Casey or Mac should be fired. And you're suggesting that would justify Bioware ignoring the entire fanbase regarding the ending?

[Mercedonius]

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Mercedonius wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Mercedonius wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Mercedonius wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Skelter192 wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]batlin wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...
did you write or develop mass effect? if not just stop where you are at because if you had no part in the development than you have no reason to say otherwise[/quote]

Are you saying that in order to criticize something you must have had a hand in its creation?

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no im saying if you didnt take part in the project at all you are in no way in the right  of demanding the rightfull creator to change a thing

its one thing to critisize but what your asking is pretty crazy and go's against what creative rights stand for

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Too bad we're getting something better.

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and yet look at other complaints regarding price

so do you think its right that someone has to come into the studio make a new level get some voice actors and have it be free?

i dont care if you payed 60 or 100 dollars because if your asking for them to work for free than im sorry but your crazy and im not saying that to be mean im saying that i think it is crazy to demand something like that


heres another question

are you or anyone else now going to come up with a way to say who is and isnt a gamer  now because they like what they like oposite of you?

ive had people tell me that on this board and even on youtube




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Free may be out of the question on a budget/reality standpoint, but it does have merrit since you can argue Mass Effect 3 was falsely advertised; especially since Casey Hudson himself said we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

There is no more obvious contradiction than that. 

If Mass Effect 3 were free I would agree with you but...

Personally, I'm okay with paid ending dlc but that also means I have high expectations which must be met, for a free ending dlc I expect nothing more than an epilogue with text. 

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thats the things fans need to not do

fans should never always assume high expectations because trust me i had such a thing for that green lantern movie and well all ill say is i rewrote the whole thing

i was mad and sad but i didnt go as far as to say hey dc i demand you change it let alone say the trailer is false advertising

as a green lantern fan and as much as i didnt like ( i dont use hate) i still love the comics because one film can NOT destroy 40 tears of written lore

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To the contrary, I think it is bad consumerism to not have expectations or requirements when I purchase a prodcut. This works differently for different mediums. If I buy a car and the steering doesn't work, I can ask for a refund or replacement. For a movie, the trailers actually can be a good judge for how well the movie is ( atleast in my experience) and movie theaters do offer refunds for disgruntled customers and I am not against that.

For a game neither trailers or demos are often a good measure for what the game is especially when the ending is conscerned and for a story based game this is important. Although I do not think a refund is warranted in this situation for most people since Mass Effect for me and many others was enjoyable up to the ending which definately has value. As a consumer though people should definately voice their opinions on what they liked and what should be changed since this has proven a good method for improvement. Bioware has gone by fan feedback before so I don't see why this should be changed now...

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see me as a gamer music lover and movie goer i dont read reviews because i have to judge something for myself

i dont allow myself to go see something based on someone elses opinion

there have been new people on this board asking for advice if they should play me3 or not and i have told them just because i loved it i feel they should rent it because they may or may not like it and they can take it back without losing 60 bucks.

i cant force myself to tell anyone ok this this and this is great and tell them to go buy it

its like people dont go by there own judgment anymore and basicly count on reviews to make that decision for them.

im not saying reviews are bad im just saying dont always use one as a way to make a final decision on something

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Yes there is no metric better than judging a product for yourself, but when time and money are involved I simply can't judge every movie or game for myself and have to go by someone else's opinions and/or my judgement of the previews, demos etc. 

This is where it takes practice and refinement to get a metric for yourself by which you can properly judge something. You have to find reviewers and friends whose opinions you trust/respect/agree with generally and research the movie or game you are interested in. Just like you learn in academia you have to cross reference your sources and come up with the best solution with how to spend your time and money for optimal enjoyment. Being a disciplined consumer does take time, energy, and a bit of trial and error but I think it is important in a captalistic society. This however gets distorted when a game gets false advertising and why there is consumer protection laws for this matter.

With regards to Mass Effect 3 there is at least one easily arguable case of false advertising when it comes to Casey Hudson's description of the endings not being an A, B, or C choice.

This falls into a grey area for me since I think a case has to be argued as to how much PR and news articles should be blamed for false advertising, however, I don't think Mass Effect 3 deserves a refund for most people since most genuinly enjoyed till the ending. 

I do think it is within their rights to voice their opinions on the game and specifically whether they want the ending changed or not since this is being a good consumer and how people can better themselves when they recieve contructive criticism. 

I mean if I don't like the ending and you don't like the ending and Bioware can change it, why not? We can't force them it should be their decision but proper discourse between developers and fans can lead to better games which in the bottom line is all we really want. 




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ive been vocal alot latley because i feel the people who hate the endings are going to ruin something someone new may like

dont get me wrong im all for protesting if done correctly and civil

some have been but a majority of them have been harsh and that shouldnt be denied

if people really want to protest heres what you do

never involve the fed for starters

law suites dont work

writting letters in a constructive civil manner is good

not buying future dlc is good

now imo for those who feel this strongly on not just bioware but ea and are that much in a protest maybe they should leave the boards also since it is a ea bioware website

thats how you send a message because continuing to basicly trash other posters who want nothing to do with your argument wont get you no where


even if it was 1 or 2 people who demanded the firings of casey and mac imo isnt wanted here either

im saying this not as a mass effect fan but as a gamer but should i or anyone else have to suffer because the take back movment cant just leave and protest somewhere else?

is it fair for me and others to now have to fight tooth and nail and say we arent apart of your group?

you may think it isnt doing damage to the community but it is


i feel now the term gamer is a bad thing because of this mess



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Ah this reaches a different point entirely. Really it is unfair to both you and the retake movement and is a problem with protesting in general.

I am sure you agree protesting is important for a free society but the consequences are often noisy and quite annoying. Regular people just want to talk but protestors must have their voice heard and have proper channels to work through which is an incovienence to both parties. 

The only way this can work is if a  compromise is reached which for this stiuation I think is if bioware creates a separate section of the forums and locks any threads created here about the retake movement. 

As for the movement somehow changing the game to be worse than it is.... I doubt it. If bioware was talented enough for mass effect 3 I doubt they can make things worse by rediting the endings and I'm sure that if they did retcon the endings this would be purely optional since they say they do have feedback on people who love the endings. If they clarify the endings then this shouldn't change the dynamic already in place for the game.

No one would be protesting if they didn't think bioware could do better

Bioware has tough decisions to make and a fine line to walk but it is what you sign up for when it comes to making any product. 

For your situation, the only thing you can really do is petition bioware for forum changes or whatever solution you like best and not respond to these threads so you don't have fight people tooth and nail. 

Inconvienient but that's life I guess : /

Also don't worry for humanity, vocal extreme people on the internet tend to be a minority and everything is far more dramatised than the reality of things. 

It is just a video game after all. 

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 09:11 .