807 réponses à ce sujet

[RxP4IN]

Phategod1 wrote...

 1st let me say that this following statement is for older individuals with common sense and the ability to form coherent sentences. Your [sic] the ones I am disappointed in...

That's as far as I got. If YOU'RE going to discriminate intelligence based on age, then don't make yourself look like an idiot.

[Blarghonk]

Quite trying to use "artistic integrity" as a shield for lies that should be addressed.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10405204/1

Modifié par Blarghonk, 22 mars 2012 - 12:51 .

[Rockpopple]

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

[Blarghonk]

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

Oh the overwhelming ignorance in that statment.

[ShadowSoldier89]

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

[NikitaDarkstar]

I can't speak for everyone unhappy with the ending, but to me this isn't about artistic vision or story telling, this is about blatantly lying in their advertising. If I back down and just accept what they've given me I've also given them the right to do that again in future marketing campaigns and to me that is a very slippery slope that drops into a very dark pit.

And you do know that books use beta/test readers and movies use test audiences right? If something simply doesn't work and it gets pointed out most creators in both mediums will go back, look it over and tweak or change it. Artistic vision doesn't mean much if the message you're trying to convey isn't clear.

[Rockpopple]

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

[Billabong2011]

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

I do believe that games are art, but "Artistic Integrity" does not save you from scrutiny when you write an ending that is completely full of plot holes, abandons established lore, and provides actions taht are completely out of character

"Artistic Integrity" in this case would be fixing this problem, not leaving it.

This. End of thread.

[Wattoes]

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

Probably a research assistant for IGN or something.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAPPY/SAD.

[Illusory_Enemy]

Billabong2011 wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

I do believe that games are art, but "Artistic Integrity" does not save you from scrutiny when you write an ending that is completely full of plot holes, abandons established lore, and provides actions taht are completely out of character

"Artistic Integrity" in this case would be fixing this problem, not leaving it.

This. End of thread.

Lol. No, this is the end of thread:

Rockpopple wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

At least we're in for the lulz!

Modifié par Illusory_Enemy, 22 mars 2012 - 12:56 .

[RustyMcBlade]

Oh, shut it.

[blue_cosmos]

Quietness wrote...

 and you need this as well i guess... i mean of course who can remember all those director cut movies and post-ending dlc... anyways onto our show:





Video games, art or not, are created with the intention of selling to a consumer. The consumer has every right to critique the product they receive. Mass Effect 3 was not art for art's sake, it was art produced to be consumed. Many argue that asking for a different ending sets a bad precedent, and asking the artist to alter their work is inappropriate. Historically speaking this is not uncommon in art or setting any precedent good or bad. The precedent has already been set. Lets look at some examples: 



Great expectations by Charles Dickens: At the end of the original version Pip meets Estella on the streets, who has remarried after her abusive husband has died. Pip says that he is glad she is a different person now from the coldhearted girl Miss Havisham reared her to be and that "suffering had been stronger than Miss Havisham's teaching and had given her a heart to understand what my heart used to be." Pip remains single. Following comments by Wilkie Collins that the ending was too sad, Dickens rewrote the ending so that Pip now meets Estella after the death of her husband in the ruins of Satis House with the suggestion that they will marry. Early 20th century writers including John Forster, George Bernard Shaw and George Orwell felt that the original ending was "more consistent with the draft, as well as the natural working out of the tale"; modern literary criticism tends to support the more common second ending. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Expectations 



Sherlock Holmes novels by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Wanting to devote more time to his historical novels, he killed off Holmes in "The Final Problem," which appeared in print in 1893. After resisting public pressure for eight years, the author wrote The Hound of the Baskervilles, which appeared in 1901. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes 



Little Shop of Horrors the film: The original conclusion to the off-Broadway musical was filmed and preferred by Frank Oz the director and the majority of the actors. However, test audiences disliked how Audrey and Seymour, the main protagonists, were both killed by the evil alien plant, and the ending had to be re-shot so that their deaths were removed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_ending 



Some of the world's greatest artists changed their work or others changed it after they finished because the consumer demanded it. The infamous "fig-leaf campaign" of the Counter-Reformation, aiming to cover all representations of human genitals in paintings and sculptures, started with Michelangelo's works. To give two examples, the marble statue of Cristo della Minerva (church of Santa Maria sopra Minerva, Rome) was covered by added drapery, as it remains today, and the statue of the naked child Jesus in Madonna of Bruges (The Church of Our Lady in Bruges, Belgium) remained covered for several decades. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo 


The music industry's "clean versions" are in response to consumer demand. These are just a few of the many examples of "art" that was changed because of consumer demand. The argument that gamers are being "entitled brats" is hardly truthful or relevant. 


Truthfully these "entitled gamers" may be entitled to a more satisfying ending. This entitlement has been created by Bioware itself. 


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer): “And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.” www.computerandvideogames.com...issing-in-me2/ 


“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…” http://www.360magazi...erent-endings/ 


Casey Hudson (Director): “For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.” http://www.gameinfor...-effect-3.aspx 


“Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.” http://venturebeat.c...ans-interview/ 



One could argue that gamers are "entitled" to an ending based on these statements made by the producer of this piece of "art". 


TL;DR Saying a new ending sets a bad precedent for games as an art form is incorrect. Art has been changed based on consumer input for centuries. Gamers are entitled to a different ending more in line with what Bioware itself promised.

Absolutely agree with this post.  Especially the point of how Mass Effect is not just art created for art's sake, but for the consumption of customers.

[Oryonn]

Rockpopple wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

How did you get all that from him saying walk away?

[Rockpopple]

Wattoes wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

Probably a research assistant for IGN or something.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAPPY/SAD.

lol. Now I'm an IGN plant or something? Does your paranoia really run that wild?

Oookay then. I'm off to report to HQ. Oops. Shouldn't have said that outloud. Worst. Spy. Ever.

[Hibernating]

Rockpopple wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

Hey, I didnt mind the endings but I dont think the main problem most people had was that they were sad endings, it was that they were filled with plot holes and didnt make much sense based on the canon

[Blarghonk]

Rockpopple wrote...

Wattoes wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

Probably a research assistant for IGN or something.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAPPY/SAD.

lol. Now I'm an IGN plant or something? Does your paranoia really run that wild?

Oookay then. I'm off to report to HQ. Oops. Shouldn't have said that outloud. Worst. Spy. Ever.

You're a special kinda special aren't you?

[kalerab]

Rockpopple wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

walk away...

[Wattoes]

Ignore the troll.

[Rockpopple]

The stupid here burns brightly enough to blow up a Mass Relay.

[kalerab]

Rockpopple wrote...

The stupid here burns brightly enough to blow up a Mass Relay.

Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks that.

[Myskal1981]

I'd like to see the writers or the team in general defend their artistic integrity against publishers that want to rush them to release a product with the same fervor as they are defending it right now against the players.

[SarcasticDots]

So I guess OP hasn't seen the multiple versions of Blade Runner then?

[OverdrivenI]

 This 'artistic integrity' argument is getting very old.

Simple fact...artists in every genre make changes and edits to their work, either because they are not happy with it and have been pressured into it by publishers (prime example with movies) or because the fans have not liked it.

- Books are often released with new edited editions later as feedback is received and new editors take a look.
- A huge number of movies are released with directors cuts. Ever see Kingdom of Heaven? The cinema release of that was not very good and didn't do that well. The directors cut took it to a whole new level with much more depth of story (sound familiar) and is now very well received.
- Artworks are often redone, touched up and changed as they go along before an artist is happy about it. They will often also receive feedback from people they know as it progresses.
- Bands generally listen to fan feedback and write new albums taking this into account. If an album was ****, didn't do well in the charts and had fans moaning, then they will try their best to remedy it with their next.

Works of art are fluid in nature. Not static. They can be changed and games are no different. Particularly with the advent of DLC and with the majority of players having easy access to the internet. There is no reason not to change them as time goes a long. It is not damaging in any way. It can simply help them grow.

Modifié par OverdrivenI, 22 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Rockpopple wrote...

Wattoes wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

Probably a research assistant for IGN or something.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAPPY/SAD.

lol. Now I'm an IGN plant or something? Does your paranoia really run that wild?

Oookay then. I'm off to report to HQ. Oops. Shouldn't have said that outloud. Worst. Spy. Ever.

Lolstrawman. 

Ignore the actual argument, you know, the part about people wanting a range of endings, varying from happy, to ultimate defeat, and not one single ending regardless of content. 

[savionen]

Rockpopple wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

When every game has a happy, hollywood style Uncharted ending, I'm sure gamers will be happy and satisfied then.

Tools.

walk away...

No. Now what, we gonna brawl? This a playground now? You back in the 5th grade?

I repeat: tools.

Almost every game these days has a dark ending, its a cliche, but ME3's ending is genocidal nonsense.