807 réponses à ce sujet

[Dridengx]

linsanity wrote...

when the Mona Lisa was xray'd artists dicovered multiple mouths under the finished work, some were smiles and some were not. art can become better with revision and reworking.

Like a sketching or rough draft, its called molding or crafting until you are happy with your work.. you do realize he DIDN"T SELL IT then change it. Mass Effect 3 is sold, you don't change it after selling. So your arguement is flawed.

[jspiess]

If the game had been shipped with a decent ending that was not riddled with plot holes, space magic, and lots of infuriation, then this would not be happening.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I'm sorry, but Mass Effect feels way more like a product then some piece of art the way EA and Bioware sells it. Lies, false promises, cut content from game (I'm sorry, but the any content in From Ashes that seems like done after certification is the half assed mission, Javik just seemed cut from the game), questionable marketing, questionable licensed products (Deception), I could go on forever.

And I don't care about any artistic integrity or any bull**** like that. I care about Mass Effect trilogy ending in a satisfying way.

[Alisira]

Most of the art we hold dear today, has been commissioned. Please don't think that Leonardo da Vinci just showed up in the Sixtine Chapel with a pot of paint one day and began painting. Furthermore, if da Vinci would have decided that rainbows and ponies fit his artistic vision better, I am sure the Vatican would have not been pleased. To say the least.
The only difference is, we are not one commisioner, we are many. But since so many of us are disappointed I think we have a point.

[SamFlagg]

Alisira wrote...

Most of the art we hold dear today, has been commissioned. Please don't think that Leonardo da Vinci just showed up in the Sixtine Chapel with a pot of paint one day and began painting. Furthermore, if da Vinci would have decided that rainbows and ponies fit his artistic vision better, I am sure the Vatican would have not been pleased. To say the least.
The only difference is, we are not one commisioner, we are many. But since so many of us are disappointed I think we have a point.

More than anything else it would've pissed off Michalangelo.

Modifié par SamFlagg, 22 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[mupp3tz]

You completely miss the point. There's a difference between art in the creative vein and delivering something that does nothing to add to the story, but in fact makes the entire piece of "art" worthless. How many games have been released over the years with endings that divided people? A lot. But, how many were bad enough that a significant amount of people found themselves truly disheartened and upset by what they were given, banded together, and petitioned for better? Not many. It's in cases like this that suggest that the company has really messed up, and not by being 'creative,' but by making stupid decisions.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 22 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[TheKingofRedLions]

Active V Passive. Learn the difference.

[GammaRayJim]

I think that it is art also....it is a story that was written/developed however you want to term it by a group of individuals with a vision. If this was just a game to be consumed no one would be this upset by the ending but because the audience became emotionally invested in the characters that were written they clamor for an ending that fills in the gaps and leaves them feeling satisfied.

I guess that can be justified what can't be justified IMO is that said audience claims co authorship regardless of what the writer/developers claim we in no way wrote any of this. We made choices throughout the game that determined how the story moved forward but all those choices were written by someone else. All the permutations of who Shepard became was already pre-written by BioWare to believe anything else is borderline delusional.

We did not commission BioWare as someone stated to paint us a picture, BioWare put together a trilogy about a character named Shepard packaged and promoted it to us the playing public and we then chose to buy it. I've been to plenty of movies that I come out of saying that it was the worst movie ever but I never demanded Hollywood to rewrite it or for the theater to give me my money back. Do we have the right to complain and criticize sure but to demand a change...

Editing is commonplace before releasing a movie, novel, or game because those things happen it doesn't mean that the artist is caving into demands of the consumer. It just means that the artist is trying to satisfy most of the public with their vision, especially when the artwork is developed for the masses.

No one will probably ever know if this was the ending that was envisioned by BioWare or if it was changed because of a leak. All we will ever know is what they choose to tell us and what they choose to release to satisfy the masses.

[Silveralen]

Phategod1 wrote...

What this means is video games are not art, have no artistic value and are just a product. Movies, books, and other form set to entertain can be claimed as art as such we all can base an opinion on it, but when you demand the artist change it, most times they'll laugh in your face and tell you to sod off because its there art they made it and its your choice to enjoy it or not or buy it or not. When the finished product is comprimised for the sake of the vocal majority of the customers then the product is not an artistic vision but just a product. 

Sir, you know less about movies and books then you think. Things called editors and focus groups exist. Tolkein only wrote lord of the rings because his initial plan was dismissed by the editor. Did that invaldiate books forever? What about the multiple cuts and endings of bladerunner? Endings and stories get changed all the time based on fan feedback during focus testing, the only probem is Video games don't go through the same feedback process as movies and books during testing, often less concerned about story and more about playtesting for bugs and gameplay.

Second, unlike books and movies, they already lanned to alter ME3 with DLC. AN author would laugh in your face if you told him the book was kinda short, how about I pay you some cash to add some chapters in the middle? The two situations aren't comrable, vdeo games are a more malleable form of media. All DLC would need to be cut to preserve artistic integrity by these definitions.

[Hypoxic_x]

I don't necessarily disagree with you OP. However IF they intended the ending should be as it is the whole time while in development THEY SHOULDN'T have advertised it as they did.

Going in to ME3 i throught my choices in ME1 and 2 would have an inpact, and that they'd make a diffrence. And they did up untill the ending.!

Like in real life, if you promise something to someone and you can't uphold it, the natual thing is to apologize and make up for it right? EA/BW did make us a promise in their advertisement but they didn't come through. What they are doing now is making up for it and hopfully apologize for it aswell.

[Norrax]

Dridengx wrote...

linsanity wrote...

when the Mona Lisa was xray'd artists dicovered multiple mouths under the finished work, some were smiles and some were not. art can become better with revision and reworking.

Like a sketching or rough draft, its called molding or crafting until you are happy with your work.. you do realize he DIDN"T SELL IT then change it. Mass Effect 3 is sold, you don't change it after selling. So your arguement is flawed.

da vinci never sold the lisa or had an intent to sell it, thefore YOUR argument is flawed!

[iamthedave3]

Dridengx wrote...

linsanity wrote...

when the Mona Lisa was xray'd artists dicovered multiple mouths under the finished work, some were smiles and some were not. art can become better with revision and reworking.

Like a sketching or rough draft, its called molding or crafting until you are happy with your work.. you do realize he DIDN"T SELL IT then change it. Mass Effect 3 is sold, you don't change it after selling. So your arguement is flawed.

What about Mass Effect: Deception?

Did Bioware tread on the artistic integrity of the writer by promising to redraft and reissue it? Where is the spirited defense of Mass Effect: Deception?

[AzaZeLgaming]

Bioware has also promised to fix the novel fiasco called "Deception", so ofc they can change their works (consumer products, not art per se) if they have errors in it. ME3 is no different.

Modifié par AzaZeLgaming, 22 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[IsleySilverlord]

Chill out people.

People like the OP have no clue what's all about. They just saw all the mess, and as the attention seekers//trolls//flamers they are, waste their time trying to burn the forum.

[MorgenRiggs]

I have lots of respect for Casey Hudson and the writers. However, the ending isn't about artistic vision.The ending was a result of time pressures and I suspect a bit of "crud, how do we end this thing?" Unfortunately, they chose poorly.

To be blunt, if there had been a slow pan away from Shepard and Anderson, as they sat side by side after the conflict with TIM, with shots of the Repears fighting the combined fleets with the Crucible blowing the Reapers up or doing something else to turn the tide of battle I'd have put down my controller and called ME3 the best game of all time.

The lead writer decided to go for an ending that would provoke discussion, however, it sacrificed character development and plot for the sake of a twist. To use a very crude analogy it would be like if in the final moments of Lord of the Rings if they got to Mount Doom and encounter an elf who told them they had come all this way but the ring wouldn't actually burn in the mountain and Frodo had gone "oh, that sucks" and turned around and walked off.

[Mystical_Gaming]

games are different they involve interaction. We the players shape games by demand and companies supply it.

[Optimus J]

Artistic vision is getting old. I don't see Mass Effect in a museum, a gallery that is. I don't it in literally magazines, or reviews.
In fact I'm wrong. I SEE IN LITERALLY REVIEWS. And that Reviews are always it's BAD.
So, what's the problem of changing bad art?

[czombie]

Mass Effect is not just a work of art, it is an IP that EA is hoping that people will continue to spend their money on in the future. ME does not belong to Casey Hudson, it belongs to EA and BioWare. He is just an employee. That is why it is not *his* work of art. A lot of people were involved in its creation and EA stands to lose a lot of money if the ending is not fixed.

Comic books are changed all the time based upon fan input. If a popular character dies and there is fan outcry, they'll resurrect the character somehow because if they don't, those fans may stop buying the title. It's the same way for Mass Effect and its current ending.

[Hypoxic_x]

Also, for the love of all things holy games are not like "paintings"!!! When you go to buy a painting you can SEE THE BLOODY THING and what you are buying!!

[ericjdev]

Artists in many fields have altered their work after poor fan reaction and not just in recent history. The sky is not falling.

[Sunnyhat1]

So a painter tells me he will make me painting of a fruit basket.
I agree and a week later my package arrives.
I open it up and it shows an empty basket on a table.

And you're telling me i have no right to complain?

The whole art excuse is utter nonsense..

[TheShinySword]

People who believe art is unchangeable are clearly not artists or have any experience with the creation of art in any form whether it is books, movies, television, tradtional mediums, video games or anything else. 

Modifié par TheShinySword, 22 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Sesshaku]

People think we don't like the ending because it's a picasso and we can't get it.

But the truth is that if you google "ending plot holes" you'll get Mass Effect 3 Ending on page 1.

[Hunter_Wolf]

Nefelius wrote...

Tell that to Doyle and Fallout 3 team.

This.

The only downside now is that it shows other companies that they can get away with leaving games half finished and charge people extra to purchase DLC that would further complete the ending.

"The game is chess, it aint checkers."

Modifié par Hunter_Wolf, 22 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[MacAttack]

This is a CONSUMER PRODUCT!!!!!!!! placed on the open market, purchesed in RETAIL stores. This whole artistic argument is retarted and pointless.