807 réponses à ce sujet

[Myrmedus]

I'd also argue we haven't ruined it but potentially evolved it.

[ericjdev]

I just registered here like a week ago and already I've destroyed all video game writing forever, that's amazing. I thought I was just sharing my upset with peers but now I find that I wield massive cosmic power, sweet.

Modifié par ericjdev, 22 mars 2012 - 08:43 .

[Myrmedus]

Phategod1 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

johhnytrash wrote...

Hey OP, where was Bioware's artistic integrity when they put up the default look for Femshep up for a vote?

 

Damn... Win... so much win... 

In game where your incouraged you make your own character, does it really matter? I have never used Sheploo or the default female shepard. 

In a game where you're encouraged to make choices, that by extension can and will affect the plot of the game, does your argument hold any more water than the guy you responded to?

[Myrmedus]

Vromrig wrote...

BIO18 wrote...

I wanted a other ending, but not like other people, I have the balls to admit that its selfish and a complete lack of any respect.
But hey, selfish is normal ya ?

Small case of martyr syndrome.  Not actually indicative of argument.  Hopes to gain attention, while simultaneously demeaning opposition.

Unsuccessful in advancing argument in any case.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

@BIO18 No, but seriously, what's selfish is to deny those asking for ADDITIONAL endings based upon your narrow perspective.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 22 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[GammaRayJim]

Silveralen wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

As far as movies and books being altered after release sure they do but most of it is done to get you to buy the DVD. From what you say on King and his gunslinger series it sounds as if he was not planning on it continuing as it did and need to fix the continuity but whatever the reason it was his book and his decision. I never said it was never done hell even Lucas did it with Star Wars because at the time the technology was not there to do what he wanted, but it was his decision not the publics.

This is Biowares descion as well. They can lose a significant portion of their fanbase, or they can change the game. End of the day, still Bioware's descion.

Well I am not sure you can speak for a significant portion of their fan base you can only speak for yourself. And you can make your future gaming decisions based on what BioWare does or does not do with regards to the ending. I felt the same way after DA2. I am not ever gonna buy another BW game again well I am glad I bought ME3 I played it twice and even though the ending was less than stellar the rest of it was brilliant. I will say that I did not and will not buy any DA2 DLC I stayed true to my word on that and hope they restore DA to it's former glory (my opinion only). As far as ME3 DLC I will probably buy it because I did enjoy it and would love to have in continue.

[Vasparian]

I love self-absorbed, pretentious people that think they are right.

[Femlob]

Vasparian wrote...

I love self-absorbed, pretentious people that think they are right.

I know, right? Comedy goldmines.

[Solduri]

stopped being art when they told me to buy more dlc at the end...

[Silveralen]

GammaRayJim wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

As far as movies and books being altered after release sure they do but most of it is done to get you to buy the DVD. From what you say on King and his gunslinger series it sounds as if he was not planning on it continuing as it did and need to fix the continuity but whatever the reason it was his book and his decision. I never said it was never done hell even Lucas did it with Star Wars because at the time the technology was not there to do what he wanted, but it was his decision not the publics.

This is Biowares descion as well. They can lose a significant portion of their fanbase, or they can change the game. End of the day, still Bioware's descion.

Well I am not sure you can speak for a significant portion of their fan base you can only speak for yourself. And you can make your future gaming decisions based on what BioWare does or does not do with regards to the ending. I felt the same way after DA2. I am not ever gonna buy another BW game again well I am glad I bought ME3 I played it twice and even though the ending was less than stellar the rest of it was brilliant. I will say that I did not and will not buy any DA2 DLC I stayed true to my word on that and hope they restore DA to it's former glory (my opinion only). As far as ME3 DLC I will probably buy it because I did enjoy it and would love to have in continue.

Actually most people in retake spoke something similar, even calling for an active boycott if they didn't change. That was all i was referring to. Plus the people who didn't like it, but didn't care enough to actually try and change it, man yof those, and I personally know a few, are off Bioware products.

[2484Stryker]

Phategod1 wrote...

For all those entitled individuals you paid $60-$190 for A game or games. If you do not work for Bioware or the dev team for Mass Effect then you do not have the right to demand story changes. Sure, you made decisions that affected your Shepard but those are decions that were given to you by Casey and the writers, every single piece of fiction has plotholes thats a fact of life. For those who don't like the ending, you have a right to your opinion but when you demand a change, you have over stepped your bounds as a fan and a consumer, and you may singlehandedly destroyed modern story telling in games.

Personally I think "demanding" a change is over the top, but voicing your criticisms about the ending is certainly within my right.  I personally haven't "review bombed" the game, nor have I sent any treatening emails to the devs.  I've kept my "complaint" of the ending mostly within voicing what I thought was bad about it (aside from a few hyperboles & jokes that I've made).  I've also given fair & honest reviews to my friends, telling them that I enjoyed most of the game but the ending simply doesn't live up to the series itself.  If by doing these things I've "forced" Bioware to make changes, then so be it!

However, I also happen to disagree with you on how changing the ending will ultimately ruin storytelling.  If anything, I think this will improve it.  That ending was bad - end of story.  You don't spend three games focusing on investigation and making decisions and ultimately seeing their consequences, just to throw all that out the window in the last ten minutes.  You also don't introduce a completely new entity at the end, an entity that created the Reapers no less, and then have your character pick one of three choices without so much as a challenge or a few questions.  You just don't do it - it's poor & lazy storytelling - make up your own ending because I've run out of time.

Modifié par 2484Stryker, 22 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[Ck213]

Nonsense programmed regurgitation.
Endings are considered and changed often in movies and books. ME 3 isn't a painting.
Someone simply failed at testing and feedback and created this mess.

Give me my director's cut.

[xeNNN]

Dusty Arne wrote...

Totally agree OP,

Now i just hope they are not 'altering" the end, but release more information about "why" they did it like they did.

I dont want Bioware to be forced in to a road they wern't planning to go.

.... they dont need to alter the endings   for everyone if they bring it out in a form of a optional DLC that isnt a mandate for everyone to download or they cant play. 

no offence but a lot of you minunderstand us, you think we all want to erase the current ending? no we just want the option to add more or have alternate endings for those who hated the ending so we can end the story we've been apart of on our terms.. you can keep your ending if you want. nobody will force you to download such a thing. 

to the op: ......... destroyed conversational story telling forever? really? talk about narrow minded.....  
this has happened in games, books, and other things throughout the decades and your now going to blame us for such things simply because people dont have the same opinion as you?  .... really. grow up.

[blah64]

"Art is never finished, only abandoned" Leonard di Vinci


Darn, that sell out. He ruined art for all of us.

[KingKhan03]

So basically they rushed the game and the ending was a pile of crap right?

[Pathero]

Ehem.

If they don;t agree with the criticisms then they won't change it.

That is all.

[ticklefist]

Deleted.

Modifié par ticklefist, 22 mars 2012 - 09:05 .

[wook77]

GammaRayJim wrote...

Wow it really boggles my mind that people can honestly compare themselves to the Catholic Church who commissioned/hired Micheangelo to paint/sculpt ect... to themselves as having hired BioWare to write/produce ME3. The Church as said patron had every right to determine what the artwork would represent because they approved preliminary sketches. Please don't think that he just painted whatever he felt like.

Quit deluding yourselves you didn't hire them you purchased their mass produced artwork. Much like buying a poster of said famous work of art you bought a copy of someones artistic vision and because you don't like the ending you feel ripped off. But no one forced you to buy it and you in no way hired them to make it for you, you chose to go along for the ride.

History lesson time! It wasn't the Church and the Pope that asked for the changes to the Sistine Chapel - it was general members of the audience, the clergy and laity, that asked for additions to the artwork. It was the Church that then commissioned the endings to satisfy the audience. It's an example of artwork being changed at the behest of the audience even when the owner of the artwork didn't want changes. The owners did it to satisfy their audience.

Or do you think that the Church wouldn't have responded to requests from their audience? Because if Botticelli had added Jesus lighting his farts on fire, I'm quite certain that the audience would've hated it and the Church would've insisted on changes.

And trust me, with the ending of ME3 - I would never say ME3 is the Sistine Chapel of video games.

In addition - I bought the game based on promises made by EA/BioWare. I do not think the game reached those promises. So telling me that no one forced me to buy the game is sort of ridiculous. Sure, no one forced me but they told me one thing and gave me another. To use your poster reference - it's like I bought a poster for Star Wars and ended up with one for Spaceballs. Sure, they're both in space and, sure, they both have large black helmets in them but, in the end, they're different products that sort of look similar but aren't.

Finally - pretending that market needs and demands don't drive what video games are produced is very shortsighted. The market drives production. Video game manufacturers manufacture games to sell them, they don't make them in a vacuum only to keep them at home. They put them on shelves to sell to the market. If they do not sell, that's it for that game. It's yanked off the market, never to see the light of day again. Art produced for art's sake normally results in the artist starving in his/her little attic loft. I somehow doubt that a large, multi-national corporation would be all right with bleeding money to that point.

[GammaRayJim]

Silveralen wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

As far as movies and books being altered after release sure they do but most of it is done to get you to buy the DVD. From what you say on King and his gunslinger series it sounds as if he was not planning on it continuing as it did and need to fix the continuity but whatever the reason it was his book and his decision. I never said it was never done hell even Lucas did it with Star Wars because at the time the technology was not there to do what he wanted, but it was his decision not the publics.

This is Biowares descion as well. They can lose a significant portion of their fanbase, or they can change the game. End of the day, still Bioware's descion.

Well I am not sure you can speak for a significant portion of their fan base you can only speak for yourself. And you can make your future gaming decisions based on what BioWare does or does not do with regards to the ending. I felt the same way after DA2. I am not ever gonna buy another BW game again well I am glad I bought ME3 I played it twice and even though the ending was less than stellar the rest of it was brilliant. I will say that I did not and will not buy any DA2 DLC I stayed true to my word on that and hope they restore DA to it's former glory (my opinion only). As far as ME3 DLC I will probably buy it because I did enjoy it and would love to have in continue.

Actually most people in retake spoke something similar, even calling for an active boycott if they didn't change. That was all i was referring to. Plus the people who didn't like it, but didn't care enough to actually try and change it, man yof those, and I personally know a few, are off Bioware products.

Sure there is always the potential to loose fans unfortunately it is my opinion that this is mostly bluster. It's a great sound byte to say such wild statements. But in the end we all know BioWare produce pretty damn good games. None are perfect but most are better that 90% of the stuff that's out there. And even if some "are off Bioware products" more will come and take their place or they will return because the truth of what BioWare creates keep people coming back for more. They dropped the ball with the ending and they are looking into a remedy.

[BLAHBLUE2001]

My biggest gripe with the defense of "it's art" is that for some reason people feel as if that validates the errors. Even if the subject matter was not to my liking the plot holes alone raise questions about the final moments of the story. Calling it art neither justifies its faults or frees it from criticism.

I myself was a art student for most my undergrad career. If my perspective or proportions were off when I was expected to draw a still life I couldn't just say its "my art" and expect a pass. Video games can be both a product and art and both products and art can be faulty.

Modifié par BLAHBLUE2001, 22 mars 2012 - 09:13 .

[Creston918]

Phategod1 wrote...

 1st let me say that this following statement is for older individuals with common sense and the ability to form coherent sentences.

--- Coherent sentences. Got it!


Your (YOU'RE) the ones I am disappointed in, not the 16 year old children who should not even be playing the M rated ME1 from several years ago. What you dont (DON'T) understand is, if Bioware and Casey Hudson have agreed to actually change the ending based on the arguaments (ARGUMENTS), then what has been achieved is the fans have comepletely (COMPLETELY) invalidated Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and video games (GAMES' or GAMES'S depending where you're from) artistic value as a whole. 


--- that's funny, because Casey Hudson himself said that he'd offer the following:



 “For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”





“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”



“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."


So I don't know. Did we destroy Casey Hudson's artistic vision? Or are we the ones who are actually REMEMBERING Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and we're just asking him to stick to it, like he actually promised us he would.




What this means is video games are not art, have no artistic value and are just a product.


--- But... I... you just said we destroyed Casey's artistic vision... and now... I... I'm confused... :|




Movies, books, and other form set to entertain can be claimed as art as such we all can base an opinion on it, but when you demand the artist change it, most times they'll laugh in your face and tell you to sod off because its there (THEIR) art they made it and its (IT'S) your choice to enjoy it or not or buy it or not. When the finished product is
comprimised (COMPROMISED) for the sake of the vocal majority of the customers then the product is not an artistic vision but just a product. 

--- You are aware that movies are REGULARLY changed based on feedback, right? That whole process is called a "screening." You're aware that authors have changed their minds based on what fans asked/demanded of them, right? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, his fans rebelled, and he brought Sherlock back for many more books. Agathie Christie absolutely HATED her Hercule Poirot character, and she wanted to kill him off, but her fans loved him, and so she kept on writing about him.

You're acting as if this is the very first time in the history of humanity that heavily emotionally invested fans have said that a work of fiction was not up to the standards they expected; in fact, it has happened frequently, and to authors / movie makers and even artists of a far greater stature than Bioware.



For all those entitled individuals you paid $60-$190 for A game or games. If you do not work for Bioware or the dev team for Mass Effect then you do not have the right to demand story changes.

--- I'm sorry, I do not have the right to demand something? I don't know where you live, my friend, but I happen to live in a free country. I most assuredly have THE RIGHT to voice my displeasure about something I purchased with my own money. And I absolutely have that right if said product was sold to me with assurances from the Lead Writer,
the Producer and the Assistant Producer that it would have many varied endings, it would not "pull a Lost", all those decisions I made as Shepard would pay off in the end, the Rachni would have a "Major" effect on ME3, and many more such promises that were never delivered.



Sure, you made decisions that affected your Shepard but those are decions that were given to you by Casey and the writers, every single piece of fiction has plotholes thats (THAT'S) a fact of life.

---- No, actually, it really isn't. Timothy Zahn writes excellent science fiction, and there are really no such things as plotholes in his books. Joe Michael Straczynski wrote a five year TV show called Babylon 5 with many similar themes to Mass Effect (in fact, Mass Effect was heavily influenced by B5), and he finished the whole thing satisfactorily, and WITHOUT plotholes. And without a Star Child appearing in the last five minutes.



For those who don't like the ending, you have a right to your opinion

---- oh, so I do? Okay.



but when you demand a change, you have over stepped (OVERSTEPPED) your bounds as a fan and a consumer, and you may singlehandedly destroyed (DESTROY) modern story telling (STORYTELLING)  in games. 

--- You will be happy to know I have signed you up for this fall Semester at NYADA (the New York Academy for the Dramatic Arts), majoring in Drama. Because you sure love laying it on thick. Gaming survived Bethesda altering the end of Fallout 3, so I'm sure that "modern storytelling in games" will survive Bioware delivering on what they promised to begin with.


Thanks for any one who took the time to read all this and (I) Apoligize (APOLOGIZE) for length and any spelling or grammatical errors I missed.

--- Well,you missed quite a lot, actually. I took the liberty of pointing them out to you. Normally I don't do so, as we all can mistype something, but then again, you did start of your post by being a presumptious, pompous windbag, and declared yourself to be far above the plebes that have the audacity to ask Bioware to deliver a satisfactory ending to
what could have been (and still could BE) the greatest sci-fi epic ever told in videogames.

Good day, sir.

(Edit : Sorry about the weird formatting. apparently Bioware's BBcode does not like me copying data into its window without screwing up big time.)

Modifié par Creston918, 22 mars 2012 - 09:31 .

[Anteocitis]

Phategod1 wrote...

What you dont understand is, if Bioware and Casey Hudson have agreed to actually change the ending based on the arguaments, then what has been achieved is the fans have comepletely invalidated Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and video games artistic value as a whole. 

balderdash.

There is good art and bad art: there is not simply just "art" that is inviolate by dint of attaching that label to it.

The ending sucked, both as art and with regard to the overall 'verse. It amde no sense and failed, utterly, to deliver that which it had promised it would. So it didnt just fail as art, it failed at multiple other levels also.

The entire "its art and you are killing it" argument is nothing more than trite PR management and rather transparently so.... or for reviewers who scored the game highly without botheirng to play through to the actual ending.

In which case "its art" is a way of saying "OMG I have SO got to cover my (_|_)"

[FellishBeast]

Phategod1 wrote...

 1st let me say that this following statement is for older individuals with common sense and the ability to form coherent sentences. Your the ones I am disappointed in, not the 16 year old children who should not even be playing the M rated ME1 from several years ago. What you dont understand is, if Bioware and Casey Hudson have agreed to actually change the ending based on the arguaments, then what has been achieved is the fans have comepletely invalidated Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and video games artistic value as a whole. 

What this means is video games are not art, have no artistic value and are just a product. Movies, books, and other form set to entertain can be claimed as art as such we all can base an opinion on it, but when you demand the artist change it, most times they'll laugh in your face and tell you to sod off because its there art they made it and its your choice to enjoy it or not or buy it or not. When the finished product is comprimised for the sake of the vocal majority of the customers then the product is not an artistic vision but just a product. 

For all those entitled individuals you paid $60-$190 for A game or games. If you do not work for Bioware or the dev team for Mass Effect then you do not have the right to demand story changes. Sure, you made decisions that affected your Shepard but those are decions that were given to you by Casey and the writers, every single piece of fiction has plotholes thats a fact of life. For those who don't like the ending, you have a right to your opinion but when you demand a change, you have over stepped your bounds as a fan and a consumer, and you may singlehandedly destroyed modern story telling in games. 

Thanks for any one who took the time to read all this and Apoligize for length and any spelling or grammatical errors I missed.

You're*

[DoctorEss]

Phategod1 wrote...

 1st let me say that this following statement is for older individuals with common sense and the ability to form coherent sentences. Your the ones I am disappointed in, not the 16 year old children who should not even be playing the M rated ME1 from several years ago. What you dont understand is, if Bioware and Casey Hudson have agreed to actually change the ending based on the arguaments, then what has been achieved is the fans have comepletely invalidated Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and video games artistic value as a whole. 

What this means is video games are not art, have no artistic value and are just a product. Movies, books, and other form set to entertain can be claimed as art as such we all can base an opinion on it, but when you demand the artist change it, most times they'll laugh in your face and tell you to sod off because its there art they made it and its your choice to enjoy it or not or buy it or not. When the finished product is comprimised for the sake of the vocal majority of the customers then the product is not an artistic vision but just a product. 

For all those entitled individuals you paid $60-$190 for A game or games. If you do not work for Bioware or the dev team for Mass Effect then you do not have the right to demand story changes. Sure, you made decisions that affected your Shepard but those are decions that were given to you by Casey and the writers, every single piece of fiction has plotholes thats a fact of life. For those who don't like the ending, you have a right to your opinion but when you demand a change, you have over stepped your bounds as a fan and a consumer, and you may singlehandedly destroyed modern story telling in games. 

Thanks for any one who took the time to read all this and Apoligize for length and any spelling or grammatical errors I missed.

Yawn.

Sherlock Holmes.

Fallout 3.

Need I go on?  Important thing to realize:  IT IS A VIDEO GAME.  IT IS NOT A PIECE OF ART.  IT IS A PRODUCT.

The fact that revisions are even happening is important to note, because usually, when dissatisfied with a PRODUCT people simply don't buy it.  Here, fans gave Bioware a chance to redeem themselves.

Further, plot holes are not artistic visions.  They are plot holes, no matter how you look at it, they are plotholes big enough to drive the Mako through.

If someone wants to make a piece of art, they're more than welcome.  However, if someone wants to sell me a story-based game product, it damn well better make sense, and not have plotholes everywhere.

Even further, "sky is falling" posts are silly.  Sky is not falling.  It's not this slippery slope of DEAR GOD EVERYONE WILL FIGHT TO CHANGE THE ENDING OF EVERYTHING!

More like "Keep your story tight, and don't have plot holes in it, thanks".  If the ending had simply MADE SENSE, nobody would have said boo about it.

[Skirlasvoud]

Phategod1 wrote...

 1st let me say that this following statement is for older individuals with common sense and the ability to form coherent sentences. Your the ones I am disappointed in, not the 16 year old children who should not even be playing the M rated ME1 from several years ago. What you dont understand is, if Bioware and Casey Hudson have agreed to actually change the ending based on the arguaments, then what has been achieved is the fans have comepletely invalidated Casey Hudson's artistic vision, and video games artistic value as a whole. 

What this means is video games are not art, have no artistic value and are just a product. Movies, books, and other form set to entertain can be claimed as art as such we all can base an opinion on it, but when you demand the artist change it, most times they'll laugh in your face and tell you to sod off because its there art they made it and its your choice to enjoy it or not or buy it or not. When the finished product is comprimised for the sake of the vocal majority of the customers then the product is not an artistic vision but just a product. 

For all those entitled individuals you paid $60-$190 for A game or games. If you do not work for Bioware or the dev team for Mass Effect then you do not have the right to demand story changes. Sure, you made decisions that affected your Shepard but those are decions that were given to you by Casey and the writers, every single piece of fiction has plotholes thats a fact of life. For those who don't like the ending, you have a right to your opinion but when you demand a change, you have over stepped your bounds as a fan and a consumer, and you may singlehandedly destroyed modern story telling in games. 

Thanks for any one who took the time to read all this and Apoligize for length and any spelling or grammatical errors I missed.

I was 20 when I played played Mass Effect for the first time, I think the ending should be changed, can make intelligent points towards that and you just called me a 16 year old who can't form coherent sentences.

It's clear to me that I've my work cut out for me, talking to an offensive, prejudiced person. However, as a reaonable individual who wants the end changed, I'll forgive you for your bias, because right now you're making us seem like the reasonable ones. That does wonders for our cause.


Well now: Both art and games remain products. One does not create sold art for the purposes of creative expression alone. Clearly, Bioware intents to sell it. This makes Mass Effect 3 every bit of a product. Wether or not is has artistic value is of secondary concern.

And I hate to tell this to you, but both sold art and products cannot be created in a vacuum. These things need an audience that gives its opinion on it. Bioware depends on sales. This gives us the infrered right to have an opinion on these things and steer their direction, so they we might feel good buying their products again.

So yes, we are voicing our opinion. To demand something, is an opinion all the same. We're not forcing them to do anything, but we are very strongly encouraging them.

We are within our limits as consumers.



Also, changing "art", for as far as that vague, opinion based noun holds any value, hasn't ruined anything. The great artists of the Reneaisance were contracted to work on someone else's views, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle retconned Sherlock Holmes and even Fallout 3 was changed. To this day, we remember all these three things as shining examples of art.

We're just giving Bioware the chance of a happy playerbase that feels willing to invest in them.

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 22 mars 2012 - 09:28 .

[GammaRayJim]

wook77 wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

Wow it really boggles my mind that people can honestly compare themselves to the Catholic Church who commissioned/hired Micheangelo to paint/sculpt ect... to themselves as having hired BioWare to write/produce ME3. The Church as said patron had every right to determine what the artwork would represent because they approved preliminary sketches. Please don't think that he just painted whatever he felt like.

Quit deluding yourselves you didn't hire them you purchased their mass produced artwork. Much like buying a poster of said famous work of art you bought a copy of someones artistic vision and because you don't like the ending you feel ripped off. But no one forced you to buy it and you in no way hired them to make it for you, you chose to go along for the ride.

History lesson time! It wasn't the Church and the Pope that asked for the changes to the Sistine Chapel - it was general members of the audience, the clergy and laity, that asked for additions to the artwork. It was the Church that then commissioned the endings to satisfy the audience. It's an example of artwork being changed at the behest of the audience even when the owner of the artwork didn't want changes. The owners did it to satisfy their audience.

Or do you think that the Church wouldn't have responded to requests from their audience? Because if Botticelli had added Jesus lighting his farts on fire, I'm quite certain that the audience would've hated it and the Church would've insisted on changes.

And trust me, with the ending of ME3 - I would never say ME3 is the Sistine Chapel of video games.

In addition - I bought the game based on promises made by EA/BioWare. I do not think the game reached those promises. So telling me that no one forced me to buy the game is sort of ridiculous. Sure, no one forced me but they told me one thing and gave me another. To use your poster reference - it's like I bought a poster for Star Wars and ended up with one for Spaceballs. Sure, they're both in space and, sure, they both have large black helmets in them but, in the end, they're different products that sort of look similar but aren't.

Finally - pretending that market needs and demands don't drive what video games are produced is very shortsighted. The market drives production. Video game manufacturers manufacture games to sell them, they don't make them in a vacuum only to keep them at home. They put them on shelves to sell to the market. If they do not sell, that's it for that game. It's yanked off the market, never to see the light of day again. Art produced for art's sake normally results in the artist starving in his/her little attic loft. I somehow doubt that a large, multi-national corporation would be all right with bleeding money to that point.

Hahaha you're kidding right. The Church commissioned Micheangelo and approved of his concept and had him paint it. They did not respond to any request from their audience as the were/are to pretentious to consider the opinions of the laiety. They got what they wanted because that's what they hired him for. And i only used this example because someone else had started with it and only as a framing of what is the difference between commissioned and off the rack purchase.

I think you like most people bought the game not based on any promises from BioWare but because you enjoyed the previous two games and you wished to know the outcome. And because you were not happy with said outcome you are understandably pissed off. But quit trying to convince people that they sold you and everyone else a false bill of goods, the ending was crap but the rest of the game was stellar. A few minutes of crap should not invalidate how much fun and enjoyable the whole rest of the trilogy was. I just hope that whatever they decide to do with the ending it meets everyones expectations...somehow I have a feeling it won't. Ah but that's art can't please everyone.

And as for the market driving production never claimed it didn't but as long as we continue to buy games on the release day because we are going to get a bonus pack of goods or some other item to entice us and not wait for real actual end user reviews then shame on us. Because any company worth it's salt is going to package and promote its' product in the best possible light and with a track record like BioWare we tend to believe them at face value. Maybe that's something that needs to change on our end.