53 réponses à ce sujet

[synthphase]

I miss the old days when games at least had the option to be developed in 2d.

I really don’t mind not having a 3d engine.

I don’t mind having art instead.

I don’t mind having more stories, more
locations, items, strategy or plot instead.

I don’t mind having hand drawn backgrounds instead of
repeated “textures”.

I don’t mind having 2d level design that works and is simple and well integrated, instead of 3d camera angles, with bumps and crags that zoom all over
the place because of the disconnect between ‘teams’ of workers.

DA:O is a good game. However it feels like a game that’s trying to be massive, but because of system requirements - and the industry requirement to push the system to the max - the designers could never really be allowed to flourish. The only reason for this is because it has to be 3d. The result is amazing in spite of it’s bondage to this modernism, but you can practically see the game bulging from inside of some kind of 3d slave suit.

 

Modifié par synthphase, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:22 .

[Legion-001]

One thing about 2d that I really miss is the massive battles, In NWN + EPs, NWN2 + EPs and in DA:O you can summon all of one creature and have it join you in battle against a 'few' enemies, but in BG's 1&2 and the Icewind Dale series you could have MASSIVE fights against numerous opponents with spells and arrows flying all over the place.

Like Bioshock, Supreme Commander and other games like it... DA:O as a spiritual successor sucks when compared to the legendary originals.

[synthphase]

Not to mention rendering all the NPC's in a town. Most of my crashes with DA have been in towns and I have no doubt it was due to CPU/GPU trying to keep up with all the gimps running around. Then imagine a city with a believable number of people..

[GODzilla]

One thing I really DON'T miss about the 2d graphics are the crappy animations. The backgrounds of Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale are still very beautiful. But when you visit youtube and watch a fight against a dragon you'll notice the really bad animatrions.

The grass is not always greener on the other side...

Modifié par GODzilla_GSPB, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Odysseus44]

The worst part is the 3D engine is just a cosmetic improvement over 2D. Your characters actually have less movement options than in old 2D squad-based tactical combat games (JA2 for example).



Ten years down the road I would have hoped RPG would, at least, improve in that regard. What we got instead was cinematic presentation and full VO (which is nice, though).

[Legion-001]

Things have gone backwards in otherways though, for example in DA:O you can happily steal someone's prized possesions right infront of their faces and they won't bat an eyelid... Try doing that in BG1/2 or even in Oblivion.

[willsanders84]

Hurrah! With you lads, all the bloody way. Give me an oscillating Minsc, a two handed sword, and red pixels all day long.

[MarloMarlo]

2d isn't necessarily more and 3d isn't necessarily less.

Modifié par MarloMarlo, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:42 .

[Odysseus44]

I just wish there would be more gameplay influence from using 3D, not only presentation. The sandbox games (Gothc 1-3, Oblivion etc) are better, but lacking in other regards.



I know, I'm greedy.

[willsanders84]

Good point, well made.

[Varasin]

I don't miss 2d at all. 3d is way better and far more immersive.

[Yevgenii]

Waaaah I like those old games I used to play I wish there were more of them.



The short answer is, grow a sack, get used to it, and if you don't like it dont play it.

[LunSei Sleidee]

I have nostalgia of the old days too, but I don't see how this thread seem to apparently state that a 2d game could technically accomplish more than a 3d game. System requirements of DA: O limited what? Imagine if this was done with the BG2 engine. What would it have more than what it has now?

[Odysseus44]

I don't miss 2D. I just think that in DAO, 3D's possibilities are underutilized.

[phordicus]

it's funny. i do remember bg2 taxing my system when i first bought it. dao doesn't tax this one at all but it feels much, much emptier.

[synthphase]

@LunSei: Think of how big the game is (about 8 gigabytes). How much of that is due to the 3d engine and graphics? Probably at least 1/3.

Developers just need to use their imagination (and also flamers). Game design is focused on graphics and 3d right now. Just think if all that manpower was focused on something like AI. Give me a Conversation Engine over a graphics engine any day. That said, I'd rather play DA then Zork, so again, I like the game, just noticing and pointing out the gaming industry's throttle-hold on this otherwise creative company.

Modifié par synthphase, 30 novembre 2009 - 10:47 .

[Yevgenii]

synthphase wrote...

@LunSei: Think of how big the game is (about 8 gigabytes). How much of that is due to the 3d engine and graphics? Probably at least 1/3.

Developers just need to use their imagination (and also flamers). Game design is focused on graphics and 3d right now. Just think if all that manpower was focused on something like AI. Give me a Conversation Engine over a graphics engine any day. That said, I'd rather play DA then Zork, so again, I like the game, just noticing and pointing out the gaming industry's throttle-hold on this otherwise creative company.

How many copies of the game would DA:O really sell if it used 2d bg level graphics? less than a hundred.

It's like hoping for world peace. Its unrealistic, no company worth their asshairs are going to use anything less than vibrant 3D graphics in RPG's.

[synthphase]

@Yevgenii: Yes, you are right. And it's a sad state of affairs.

[Odysseus44]

@Yevgenii: 2D doesn't mean BG2-level graphics.



(Sigh)... I guess you're right though. We're in the age of immersion.

[Varasin]

I think the nostalgia for BG2 is clouding peoples judgement of that game. In my opinion DA:O has a better story, characters, dialogue, character interactions, quests and yes even graphics and sound. BG2 was great in it's day but for Bioware to go back to that type of graphics and gameplay would be a huge step backwards.

[purplesunset]

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

[willsanders84]

I'm being deadly serious here, when I say; I'd buy a 2D game. In fact, I'd definately buy it. And I wonder how much time would be saved, what production costs, and how many 2D fans have been waiting since BG2.



Honestly, I don't think it's that big a risk, sure it'd be gutsy, but there is a fan base. A big one.

[Yevgenii]

purplesunset wrote...

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

Uh.. no I wasn't

[purplesunset]

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

Uh.. no I wasn't

Really ? well judging from  your posts in the following thread, I thought you didn't like nostalgia or 2-d games.

http://social.biowar.../index/134702/6

Modifié par purplesunset, 30 novembre 2009 - 11:32 .

[MajorApa]

I would buy a 2d RPG. IMAGINE how big and complex it could be if the used the same budgets as todays 3d games.



And I still think 2d is better looking than 3d.