53 réponses à ce sujet

[Yevgenii]

purplesunset wrote...

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

Uh.. no I wasn't

Really ? well judging from  your posts in the following thread, I thought you didn't like nostalgia or 2-d games.

http://social.biowar.../index/134702/6

I dont like 2-d, how does my post in this thread tell you otherwise?

[purplesunset]

MajorApa wrote...

I would buy a 2d RPG. IMAGINE how big and complex it could be if the used the same budgets as todays 3d games.

And I still think 2d is better looking than 3d.

If I could build a time machine I would create my dream team for an rpg. Today's budget, and resources combined with the mentality of a  development team from the early 90's would make a superb rpg. Back then, game developers had wild ideas because pc gaming was still fairly new and they were still idealistic about the possibilities.

[willsanders84]

Isn't it obvious? He'd be writing in 3D if he liked it.

[Yevgenii]

My dream team for an RPG would be..



CDProjeckt + Bethesda + Pyrhana Bytes for Development



Bioware for budget



And Call of Duty's marketing

[purplesunset]

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

Uh.. no I wasn't

Really ? well judging from  your posts in the following thread, I thought you didn't like nostalgia or 2-d games.

http://social.biowar.../index/134702/6

I dont like 2-d, how does my post in this thread tell you otherwise?

Dude, you don't like 2-d, therefore, you *were* being sarcastic with this post:

Yevgenii wrote...

Waaaah I like those old games I used to play I wish there were more of them.

The short answer is, grow a sack, get used to it, and if you don't like it dont play it.

I suppose you misinterpreted what I meant by sarcasm.

[Drake Sigar]

I miss 2D, but I also know that sometimes Nostalgia is like an ex-girlfriend. She asks if you want to get back together and for whatever reason, only the good times pop into your head. A few days later, you realize why you dumped her in the first place.

[Yevgenii]

purplesunset wrote...

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Yevgenii wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Um....Yevgenii was actually being sarcastic and was poking fun at you guys.

Just wanted to mention that. You may now carry on...

Uh.. no I wasn't

Really ? well judging from  your posts in the following thread, I thought you didn't like nostalgia or 2-d games.

http://social.biowar.../index/134702/6

I dont like 2-d, how does my post in this thread tell you otherwise?

Dude, you don't like 2-d, therefore, you *were* being sarcastic with this post:

Yevgenii wrote...

Waaaah I like those old games I used to play I wish there were more of them.

The short answer is, grow a sack, get used to it, and if you don't like it dont play it.

I suppose you misinterpreted what I meant by sarcasm.

Problem is they werent responding to that post, but to another one.

[purplesunset]

Yevgenii wrote...

My dream team for an RPG would be..

CDProjeckt + Bethesda + Pyrhana Bytes for Development

Bioware for budget

And Call of Duty's marketing

CDprojekt does indeed remind me of the old-school development teams. I mean maybe because the Polish  people haven't lost their passion for game development like their American counterparts. They made an enhanced edition, and released it as a patch for FREE.

Most companies today would rather release the enhanced edition as a DLC that you have to pay for.

[purplesunset]

Drake Sigar wrote...

I miss 2D, but I also know that sometimes Nostalgia is like an ex-girlfriend. She asks if you want to get back together and for whatever reason, only the good times pop into your head. A few days later, you realize why you dumped her in the first place.

This made me LOL !!!

And then it made me sad. Alas...Love...oh love, why dost thou hurt so much ?

[Seifz]

First of all, 2D engines haven't been abandoned entirely. They're still doing just fine in the platforming genre. Just look at the new Mario game! Good times!



But seriously, sprites are ugly. Really ugly. I don't care how detailed you make a sprite look, it's still ugly. I need to move the camera around and see things from different angles. I need to be able to see facial expressions and body language when people are talking. Most importantly, I can't play an entire game with a top-down camera! That's so... terrible! Ugh!



I'll take a decent 3D engine over the most advanced 2D engine ever, any day. DA:O's engine is better than decent, and I like it.

[Vaeliorin]

Give me a 2D game with a rotatable camera (which is obviously impossible) and I'd be okay with it. I hate that developers in 2D games always think it's clever to hide things behind walls and what not, so you can't see them. Also, ending up with loot hidden by the scenery (stupid loot bags behind trees in BG) is annoying.



I guess what that boils down to is that I prefer 3D, but only because you need 3D to have a decent camera.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Give me a 2D game with a rotatable camera (which is obviously impossible) and I'd be okay with it. I hate that developers in 2D games always think it's clever to hide things behind walls and what not, so you can't see them. Also, ending up with loot hidden by the scenery (stupid loot bags behind trees in BG) is annoying.

I guess what that boils down to is that I prefer 3D, but only because you need 3D to have a decent camera.

The NWN engine was entirely sufficient.  I don't see how the improved visuals in modern games are all worth the cost of employing these high-end engines.

[willsanders84]

That's WHY I dislike 3D, the movable camera. It's just too much for me to think about. With computer games, I don't want to think about things that I shouldn't have to think about. On NWN I used to scroll as far out as possible with the view, just because it was surely the most efficient perspective, but then I lost out on pretty detail, which I don't care about, but it did concern me. Was I missing out on what the game was all about? What angle should it have been played at?



3D. Yuck.

[Haexpane]

Well a 2D bigger/better DAO sounds great on paper, it's only on paper.



We really don't know if they could have made DAO any bigger or the gameplay any better just because 2D. They'd have to have the art but also be 1080p+ quality art, that is not cheap.



640 res pixel painting is just fine and dandy, but think of how many more pixels they need to paint for HD?



The bottom line is Baldur's Gate 2 was godly and you can pretty much cancel any plans you had for a better party based RPG to come out... like ever.

[synthphase]

Bg2 wasn't just 2d, it also had very low resolution. Edit: I see someone beat me at pointing this out. A modern 2d game would look 100 times better then a Bg2 clone. 2 & 1/2 D games like Trine or Diablo 3 are probably way cheaper to produce (and cheaper on a CPU) as well since you only have to render two of three dimensions.. 

Modifié par synthphase, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:57 .

[oceloteyes]

What I enjoyed about 2D games was the fact that I could imagine everything the graphics of the time couldn't show me. I'm supposed to be walking through a labyrinth with rough-cut grey stone walls, you say? I imagined the cobwebs shifting with a breath of stale underground air, that a graphics engine couldn't render. I imagined the dust under my characters' feet, and the occasional crack of a fragile mouse bone on the floor. When the computer gave me an orc or ghost to fight, I would imagine the encounter taking place instead of what the feeble computer engine could show me. When I was young, I could literally scare myself with picturing a room full of skeletons wielding swords, when all the computer showed me was a bunch of pixels. I even spent hours trying to come up with different vase designs for the health potions in Prince of Persia games, when I was a kid! If I was given 2D graphics - I would imagine them in 3D, rotate them around in my head, picture the characters as characters not just sprites.

But, I am an artist. Imagining things is my profession.

While sometimes I miss that there is actually less room for imagination in today's 3D games, everything is shown to you, graphics have advanced by leaps and bounds, I don't think DA:O would benefit from being in 2D. It's such a character- and story-driven game, and the artists and voice actors put so much hard work into making the characters come to life, that I just don't think that scenes would make as much emotional impact on us players if, say, Alistair spoke about Duncan with the voice of Steve Valentine but the graphics of a pixelated sprite. I want to see the emotion on his face, I want to see his expressions as he speaks. I want to feel like I am playing through a movie, or watching a book come to life on my screen - I am immersed in the game's world. Finally, I want to have those camera options to move around and watch the characters and fight scenes and screencap the cool finishing moves, as much as I like.

IMHO, DA:O has achieved that immersive feeling incredibly well.
I haven't played Baldur's Gate, so of course I may be wrong, and it may have been a fantastically immersive game, sprites and all. But what I would imagine for myself if a game like this was 2D, is matched by what DA:O's graphics show me in 3D. And as an artist, I can appreciate the hard work that DA:O's artists have done, and my mind has no trouble picturing a few extra background trees/buildings, or better grass.

Modifié par oceloteyes, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:04 .

[Haexpane]

oceloteyes wrote...

 

IMHO, DA:O has achieved that immersive feeling incredibly well.
I haven't played Baldur's Gate, so of course I may be wrong, and it may have been a fantastically immersive game, sprites and all. But what I would imagine for myself if a game like this was 2D, is matched by what DA:O's graphics show me in 3D. And as an artist, I can appreciate the hard work that DA:O's artists have done, and my mind has no trouble picturing a few extra background trees/buildings, or better grass.

Most BG2 fans will attest that BG2 is more immersive than DAO, a lot more immersive.   It wasn't imagining, BG2 had cool sound effects, a great story, character interactions and huge epic battles.

DAO is immersive too, but BG2 takes the cake and eats it too.

[Seifz]

Haexpane wrote...

oceloteyes wrote...

 

IMHO, DA:O has achieved that immersive feeling incredibly well.
I haven't played Baldur's Gate, so of course I may be wrong, and it may have been a fantastically immersive game, sprites and all. But what I would imagine for myself if a game like this was 2D, is matched by what DA:O's graphics show me in 3D. And as an artist, I can appreciate the hard work that DA:O's artists have done, and my mind has no trouble picturing a few extra background trees/buildings, or better grass.

Most BG2 fans will attest that BG2 is more immersive than DAO, a lot more immersive.   It wasn't imagining, BG2 had cool sound effects, a great story, character interactions and huge epic battles.

DAO is immersive too, but BG2 takes the cake and eats it too.

Bah.  The character interaction in DA:O is much, much better than BG2.  I'll admit that BG2 might have had a better story, but the character interaction isn't even close.  In my opinion, characters are more important than the overall story.

[purplesunset]

oceloteyes wrote...

What I enjoyed about 2D games was the fact that I could imagine everything the graphics of the time couldn't show me.
.....

Hmmm, I'm not an artist per se, but I have a wild imagination like an artist.   I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. 2-D games do allow us to fill in the blanks with our imagination, but 2-D games can also feature breathtaking artwork, like what you find in Icewind Dale 1.

I honestly prefer beautifully drawn 2-D artwork over 3-D. The adventure game genre (games like Syberia, Scratches etc.) is where 2-D gets a chance to blossom in its manifold beauty.

However, the one place I disagree with you is when you said that  3-D makes Dragon Age more immersive.  2-D games were very immersive in their own right, because they have to rely more on sound and music to set the tone of the atmosphere. If  I'm watching a 3-D cartoon actor making awkward facial expressions, the uncanny valley ends up interfering with the immersion for me.

Modifié par purplesunset, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:17 .

[Haexpane]

Seifz wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

oceloteyes wrote...

 

IMHO, DA:O has achieved that immersive feeling incredibly well.
I haven't played Baldur's Gate, so of course I may be wrong, and it may have been a fantastically immersive game, sprites and all. But what I would imagine for myself if a game like this was 2D, is matched by what DA:O's graphics show me in 3D. And as an artist, I can appreciate the hard work that DA:O's artists have done, and my mind has no trouble picturing a few extra background trees/buildings, or better grass.

Most BG2 fans will attest that BG2 is more immersive than DAO, a lot more immersive.   It wasn't imagining, BG2 had cool sound effects, a great story, character interactions and huge epic battles.

DAO is immersive too, but BG2 takes the cake and eats it too.

Bah.  The character interaction in DA:O is much, much better than BG2.  I'll admit that BG2 might have had a better story, but the character interaction isn't even close.  In my opinion, characters are more important than the overall story.

You mean the PG-13 panty shots of Alistair? 

[Seifz]

Haexpane wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

oceloteyes wrote...

 

IMHO, DA:O has achieved that immersive feeling incredibly well.
I haven't played Baldur's Gate, so of course I may be wrong, and it may have been a fantastically immersive game, sprites and all. But what I would imagine for myself if a game like this was 2D, is matched by what DA:O's graphics show me in 3D. And as an artist, I can appreciate the hard work that DA:O's artists have done, and my mind has no trouble picturing a few extra background trees/buildings, or better grass.

Most BG2 fans will attest that BG2 is more immersive than DAO, a lot more immersive.   It wasn't imagining, BG2 had cool sound effects, a great story, character interactions and huge epic battles.

DAO is immersive too, but BG2 takes the cake and eats it too.

Bah.  The character interaction in DA:O is much, much better than BG2.  I'll admit that BG2 might have had a better story, but the character interaction isn't even close.  In my opinion, characters are more important than the overall story.

You mean the PG-13 panty shots of Alistair? 

I mean the hilarious dialogue that I hear when I'm running through the woods.  I've actually laughed out loud a number of times at what those guys say to each other!  I mean the way that Morrigan is hard to predict, the way that Oghren falls over drunk... the small things, like Wynne wanting to wash my dog!  That was great!

I've traveled with only three companions for the majority of my first game and I can't wait to finish this game and start again so that I can experience three new companions!

The characters in BG2... Well, a handful of them were good.  The rest were rather dull and lame.  The good ones didn't have nearly as much dialogue as the DA:O characters do.

[oceloteyes]

purplesunset wrote...

oceloteyes wrote...

What I enjoyed about 2D games was the fact that I could imagine everything the graphics of the time couldn't show me.
.....

Hmmm, I'm not an artist per se, but I have a wild imagination like an artist.   I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. 2-D games do allow us to fill in the blanks with our imagination, but 2-D games can also feature breathtaking artwork, like what you find in Icewind Dale 1.

I honestly prefer beautifully drawn 2-D artwork over 3-D. The adventure game genre (games like Syberia, Scratches etc.) is where 2-D gets a chance to blossom in its manifold beauty.

However, the one place I disagree with you is when you said that  3-D makes Dragon Age more immersive.  2-D games were very immersive in their own right, because they have to rely more on sound and music to set the tone of the atmosphere. If  I'm watching a 3-D cartoon actor making awkward facial expressions, the uncanny valley ends up interfering with the immersion for me.

I think it depends on personal preference, that's all
I'm also not a 3D artist, just a 2D illustrator, so I definitely adore breathtaking 2D landscapes and other game art.
I also enjoyed Syberia a lot, again more for the artwork and overall feel of the game rather than the puzzles themselves.

In the case of DA though, again just personally speaking, the characters were spot-on for me 99% of the time. Only IMHO and speaking as someone who hasn't played Baldur's Gate. I think I should, just to check it out, though.

[Seifz]

oceloteyes wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

oceloteyes wrote...

What I enjoyed about 2D games was the fact that I could imagine everything the graphics of the time couldn't show me.
.....

Hmmm, I'm not an artist per se, but I have a wild imagination like an artist.   I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. 2-D games do allow us to fill in the blanks with our imagination, but 2-D games can also feature breathtaking artwork, like what you find in Icewind Dale 1.

I honestly prefer beautifully drawn 2-D artwork over 3-D. The adventure game genre (games like Syberia, Scratches etc.) is where 2-D gets a chance to blossom in its manifold beauty.

However, the one place I disagree with you is when you said that  3-D makes Dragon Age more immersive.  2-D games were very immersive in their own right, because they have to rely more on sound and music to set the tone of the atmosphere. If  I'm watching a 3-D cartoon actor making awkward facial expressions, the uncanny valley ends up interfering with the immersion for me.

I think it depends on personal preference, that's all
I'm also not a 3D artist, just a 2D illustrator, so I definitely adore breathtaking 2D landscapes and other game art.
I also enjoyed Syberia a lot, again more for the artwork and overall feel of the game rather than the puzzles themselves.

In the case of DA though, again just personally speaking, the characters were spot-on for me 99% of the time. Only IMHO and speaking as someone who hasn't played Baldur's Gate. I think I should, just to check it out, though.

Eh, playing BG2 now isn't the same as playing BG2 when it was new.  The graphics suck, the combat system sucks (I'm sorry, but AD&D wasn't meant for CRPGs and the translation just doesn't work), the game is still buggy because BioWare had to rely on players to patch it over the years, and the dialogue is a small fraction of what you got in DA:O.  The story is great, if you played BG1, but it does have the annoying Forgotten Realms nonsense going on at the same time.

BG2 was great in its day, but going back to play it now is just painful for me.  Ugh.

[Blackshire]

I'm sorry, I just e-farted in this thread.