209 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

http://www.forbes.co.../?feed=rss_home

Some Highlights:

"Lots of padding in here praising the BioWare team for their courage to accept criticism, which is odd since that’s simply par for the proverbial course when it comes to art. If video games are indeed art than it doesn’t take courage to accept or respond to criticism. It’s simply what one does."

"Whether the ending of the game was in fact just an elaborate set-up for a really great twist remains theoretical. And as Paul Tassi points out, may also underscore how the quest for profits is killing video games/"

"Have advertising dollars led to a form of journalistic capture at the big gaming reviewers? I have no way of knowing, of course, but this is the impression many gamers have. Pointing to the disparity between user response and reviewer response only serves only to reinforce and accentuate this belief."

"-the notion that artists ought only respond to constructive criticism is delirious. If games are truly art, and the teams who develop them truly artists, why should they be treated with kid’s gloves?
        There is no need to take a “constructive” attitude with talented artists,” writes Stephen Bond, “if anything, they find such an attitude more offensive. As H.L. Mencken said: “I do not object to being denounced, but I can’t abide being schoolmastered, especially by men I regard as imbeciles.” The constructive critic is a crow who takes it upon himself to educate the eagle; one who tries to force his own limitations on those who can soar far higher, unencumbered.”

"-the plethora of positive professional reviews are less helpful by far than much of the ‘destructive’ commentary BioWare faces. Truth rarely lies in what we want to hear. Dozens of fawning reviewers tripping over one another to offer up their perfect scores hardly encourages BioWare to improve their product. “Look how exceptional our game is! We appreciate your concern and we are listening, but by the way did you notice all these perfect scores we just received? You’re delusional, but we care.”



Thoughts?...

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 mars 2012 - 11:35 .

[Skyhawk02]

At first I thought it was nice that Erik Kain was fairly covering the ending controversy (even though I really liked the ending) because sites like IGN have been totally dishonest in their coverage. But this latest article was a completely unnecessary attack on Ray Muzyka. He is redefining constructive criticism to mean something totally different from what Ray Muzyka meant when he used the term.

[shinobi602]

Spot on.

[justlogme]

  Good post
  What can i say other then agree. Hiding thier heads in the sand just hurts Bioware in the long run.
  No one ever improved themselves by being told they were perfect and could do no wrong.

[Demon Velsper]

Correct, criticism doesn't exist to improve anything, it exists to express the critics feelings about it.

If you create a dish that makes everyone who eats it puke, then that is about as constructive criticism as it gets. No amount of "less salt, more peppar" is going to help. And if you make game that pisses off a lot of people then that is the most important piece of critique you can ever have.

[LegendaryBlade]

Erik is very quickly becoming my hero, there's a whole stir up on a few forums and websites I go to where people are talking about how Forbes is very quickly becoming more a more reliable source of gaming journalism than, well, gaming journalism sites. I follow his twitter too, and he just seems like a nice guy.

I really hope to see more out of him going forward, and this was another excellent post.

[LoneStorm]

The PLC wrote...

That is just childish. What a jerk.

How is it? 

[Amikae]

The PLC wrote...

That is just childish. What a jerk.

How is this childish? So all of us who don't trust BioWare anymore are acting childish? Ray Muzyka made a statement, who cares? Who know if it's even him who wrote that. He basically said almost nothing and throuought his whole statement there was this condescending tone about the raging fanbase. 

Modifié par Amikae, 22 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

@The PLC, you may think this is childish and that Erik is a jerk...

but I personally don't want the industry to follow in Bioware's footsteps on this one... so...

Let the bashing contine...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The PLC,  If Bioware didn't have (or intend to obtain) anyone's money... your post would make more sense.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[LegendaryBlade]

The PLC wrote...

All the complaining and ****ty attitudes has reached a point, where I don't even know why Bioware bothers to reply. Grow up.

1. Call people childish/entitled/other buzzword
2. Act superior, tell them to grow up/stop-complaining/etc
3. Be pretentious

Oh boy!

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 22 mars 2012 - 11:59 .

[Dosh Gunnington]

Would a team really wan't a bunch of reviewers throwing out perfect scores rather than an honest opinion about their game, i understand the marketing team would but if i were the development team i'd be insulted to just get blind 10/10's just because of the publisher im working for.

The statement just comes off as "We can't hear our playerbase over the sound of how awesome we are, check out these reviews that say so!".

[Paul Sedgmore]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

At first I thought it was nice that Erik Kain was fairly covering the ending controversy (even though I really liked the ending) because sites like IGN have been totally dishonest in their coverage. But this latest article was a completely unnecessary attack on Ray Muzyka. He is redefining constructive criticism to mean something totally different from what Ray Muzyka meant when he used the term.

This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. People seem to be thinking that destructive criticism means anyone who does not like something and constructive criticism is people agreeing with what is currently in the game. This is not the case

[Mr. Gogeta34]

You can get good information out of any kind of feedback... I think that was his point.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 22 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[user1234567890]

"There is no need to take a “constructive” attitude with talented artists,” writes Stephen Bond, “if anything, they find such an attitude more offensive. "

As someone who likes to compose music, I must say, it's true. If I show a piece and I KNOW it could have been done better, and  someone just says "it's really great," then it's clear he's incompetent in this field. I understand your wish to express products of positive thinking, but it leaves stinking "positive skew" on top of anything you've been at.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The PLC wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

@The PLC, you may think this is childish and that Erik is a jerk...

but I personally don't want the industry to follow in Bioware's footsteps on this one... so...

Let the bashing contine...

I don't want game companies to work on extra ending because of annoying fans either.

Then you have nothing to worry about.

[Shichamatsu]

I think of criticism like plublicity. "All publicity is good publicity". I feel the same with Criticism. If its constructive then you learn to do better. If people are just talking ****, then you learn to get tougher skin. Its that simple.

I agree that general trolling is bad. But dont get pissy when it happens, dont be surprised cause someone just wants to say something bad about you. Thats how people are....get used to it.

[Ronin1325]

"Truth rarely lies in what we want to hear." Spot on Eric. Fawing over Bioware's mistake & being too 'polite' to mention this enormous gaffe & call it out for what it is, is not going to get the game fixed, or get them to finally bring us the endings they marketed to us.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Correct, criticism doesn't exist to improve anything, it exists to express the critics feelings about it.

If you create a dish that makes everyone who eats it puke, then that is about as constructive criticism as it gets. No amount of "less salt, more peppar" is going to help. And if you make game that pisses off a lot of people then that is the most important piece of critique you can ever have.

No the most important piece of critique you can have is what exactly pissed people off so that it can be fixed/avoided in future releases. 

[user1234567890]

The PLC wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

@The PLC, you may think this is childish and that Erik is a jerk...

but I personally don't want the industry to follow in Bioware's footsteps on this one... so...

Let the bashing contine...

I don't want game companies to work on extra ending because of annoying fans either.

The last they should try is to fix a banana into an orange.

Modifié par user1234567890, 22 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Femlob]

The PLC wrote...

That is just childish. What a jerk.

Why? Because he didn't wrap his criticism in several layers of soft padding? Because that's exactly what the faint of heart imply whenever they demand the use of "constructive criticism". I swear, political correctness is the first nail in our species' collective coffin.

The Dutch have a saying: "zachte heelmeesters maken stinkende wonden". Loosely translated, it boils down to "gentle doctors leave festering wounds".

There's no criticism quite as constructive or effective as brutal honesty, and anyone who wields it is aces in my book. If you can't stand the heat, stay the fuck out of the kitchen.