209 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

RE: OP
Forbes has given the best coverage and commentary on ME3 since the release.

Modifié par Thompson family, 22 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Skarwael]

Ronin1325 wrote...
'clarifying' the endings isn't going to work because all it will tell us is how bad the endings are now. We already know that. We don't need to see trash in HD to know that it's trash.

[Icinix]

Thompson family wrote...

RE: OP
Forbes has given the best coverageand commentary of ME3 since the release.

Not just about ME3 either - they've been really been dishing hits about the gaming industry, the gaming journalists etc.

Its been great to see a few of these issues brought to real light beyond forum banter.

[batlin]

Agreed 100%. I hate how all these PR robots act like they're being gracious for accepting criticism. Art is to be criticized. Don't like it? Don't be an artist.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

Forbes is a better gaming journalist website than any other blindfolds-on game journal website out there

[spirosz]

These 2 parts gets me ""-the notion that artists ought only respond to constructive criticism is delirious. If games are truly art, and the teams who develop them truly artists, why should they be treated with kid’s gloves?"

The fact that they have been taking constructive criticism and yet are trying to ignore them by stating "Hey, look at these 75 critics, so many PERFECT scores". It's insulting really, I've been a huge fan for a long time and Bioware is the reason I love gaming so much, but in the last 2-3 years.. they have truly been going downhill IMO. I understand trying to hype up your game to get people to buy it, but there's a fine line that Bioware has crossed "There will be no "A,B,C" choice and we will not end the game to the point where there is more speculation, like the series Lost" and what did we get, "A,B,C". What was their main selling point with this game: choices that shape and develop our Shepard - which is undone by the ending because what we did doesn't influence it in any means. I know my Shepard wouldn't of picked any of those 3 options and I for sure know he wouldn't of gone through that journey just to end up doing what he did - The fact that my Shepard was able to rally the Geth and Quarians or the Turians and Krogans together, show's how far organics have come and how much they're willing to sacrifice and that we CAN work with synthetics regardless of what this "God Child" believes is the "right" thing to do. Sure, maybe we would of all died, but he would go down fighting in what he believed in. I also understand that this is their game and the story goes the way they want it - they still made sure to sell their main attraction - our choices MATTER.


I lol'ed at this because it's true - “Look how exceptional our game is! We appreciate your concern and we are listening, but by the way did you notice all these perfect scores we just received? You’re delusional, but we care.”

Modifié par spiros9110, 22 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[kbct]

Ronin1325 wrote...

kbct wrote...

This is by far the most important sentence in the article:

"... promising ‘clarity’ is not the same thing as promising a new batch of options and endings for players. The phrasing is as inscrutable as one would expect from a PR maneuver like this."

Ray committed to only the most minor of changes, yet other news articles are saying the ending will be changed. While that is technically true, I think A LOT of customers are gonna be surprised if BioWare only describes the colors and god-child in more detail.

I know, right kbct? My "PR Radar" perked up immediately at that and I posted that thought immediately on the main Sticky. Along with saying that 'clarifying' the endings isn't going to work because all it will tell us is how bad the endings are now. We already know that. We don't need to see trash in HD to know that it's trash.

Yeah, I read your stuff. I asked for clarification too. I think a number of others called him out on it too. We'll see what happens. I hope it his comments on the ending were only a trial balloon to see how the community would respond.

I think most people want their choices to matter. I think most people don't want a character introduced at the eleventh hour.

BioWare should realy clarify their remarks about the ending so there is no surprise in April. Seems easy enough to do, right?

[kbct]

ohnoyoudidnt wrote...

Forbes is a better gaming journalist website than any other blindfolds-on game journal website out there

Yeah, Forbes ain't fishing for game advertising on their site either. Forbes doesn't have a conflict of interest.

Modifié par kbct, 22 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[ZtalkerRM]

ohnoyoudidnt wrote...

Forbes is a better gaming journalist website than any other blindfolds-on game journal website out there

Ever since DA2 I'm asking myself how the hell gaming sites like Gamespot and IGN can blindly give 9's and 10's to games while turning a blind eye to obvious problems. They get to play the games weeks, months before we do and you'd think, out of all people, they would feel the responsability to 'prevent' or encourage potential buyers from buying games if they think a game sucks or is great.

I just feel sorry for all those young people (who don't have the momey to buy multiple games) who saved up for ME3, read the Gamespot article and then spent their hard working money on it. Bioware and the famous game sites have just...stolen 60 bucks from these people.

[Wildhide]

I appreciate Kain's continued coverage, because it's the best coverage in the media so far. He has a nice, fairly insightful, and far less baised set of articles than anywhere else.

He has a good one up now concerning the fact game reviewers are in bed with the publishers.

[grimkillah]

It is a sad state of affair that I can only get unbiased review of a game from a business publication, and not your traditional gaming sites. But to be fair ME3 is 99% brilliance with last 10min of failure. I do hope we get 16 very different ending ranging from rainbows and kittens happy ending, to God Emperor ruling the galaxy with his reaper slaves. It is only fair, after all it was what BioWare promised.

p.s. fix the defender achievement with an option for SP, the way EA closing off online features, this issue will rise sooner or later.

[Ronin1325]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

ohnoyoudidnt wrote...

Forbes is a better gaming journalist website than any other blindfolds-on game journal website out there

Ever since DA2 I'm asking myself how the hell gaming sites like Gamespot and IGN can blindly give 9's and 10's to games while turning a blind eye to obvious problems. They get to play the games weeks, months before we do and you'd think, out of all people, they would feel the responsability to 'prevent' or encourage potential buyers from buying games if they think a game sucks or is great.

I just feel sorry for all those young people (who don't have the momey to buy multiple games) who saved up for ME3, read the Gamespot article and then spent their hard working money on it. Bioware and the famous game sites have just...stolen 60 bucks from these people.

Nearly all the major Gaming sites seem to be what in the movie industry are called "Quote ****s". Critics who are paid by the studios to make glowing sound-bite reviews like "Awesome!" or "Best Movie of the Year!". Now there are lots of those in filmdom but also more critics who are seperated from that, so we have a good balance. Not so in the gaming industry. <_<

[Ronin1325]

[quote]kbct wrote...

I know, right kbct? My "PR Radar" perked up immediately at that and I posted that thought immediately on the main Sticky. Along with saying that 'clarifying' the endings isn't going to work because all it will tell us is how bad the endings are now. We already know that. We don't need to see trash in HD to know that it's trash.

[/quote]

Yeah, I read your stuff. I asked for clarification too. I think a number of others called him out on it too. We'll see what happens. I hope it his comments on the ending were only a trial balloon to see how the community would respond.

I think most people want their choices to matter. I think most people don't want a character introduced at the eleventh hour.

BioWare should realy clarify their remarks about the ending so there is no surprise in April. Seems easy enough to do, right?[/quote]

Well if you read my stuff then you know how I feel about it. It is easy enough to do. We'll just have to wait & see if Bioware has enough integrity & "humility" (to quote a certain personage) to come up with something that isn't coated with oodles of PR glaze.

[element eater]

good article

kind of sad that it seems to be groups like forbes who are the ones who actualy acknowledge the views of the gamers/consumers as opposed to the actual video game journalists.

Modifié par element eater, 22 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[Silicon Drifter 82]

great article

[Humanaut]

Icinix wrote...

Arguably they're artists in a consumer product space.

As such their job is to bring the art the consumer wants with the developers vision.

Perhaps they're less artists and more architects - the gaming world wants a FPS that meets certian critera - the game company releases their version of the FPS that meets that criteria while bringing their own unique vision to it.

"Architects" does explain it really well. They´re architects that had build a game world, in that we create our own Shepard-Stories.

It´s not a sandbox game-world, but it does give us enough decision points and branches, that we get the picture, WE, the players write our own story. That point, that it´s all interactive, leads Bioware away from the traditional artist.

They´re art gives us a playground to play out our decisions. We, the players are a social part of they´re art - it´s the same in theatre or with performance arts. They can lead our decisions, set traps etc., give us the illusion of freedom, but in the end, they´re products or pieces of art are the best, when they give us the feeling, WE can decide, how it ends. They changed the rules of the game for the ending. That´s why we gamers are so upset.

Modifié par Humanaut, 22 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[CptBomBom00]

The **** just got  serious or did it hit the fan already?

Modifié par CptBomBom00, 22 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[avatar2396]

Ronin1325 wrote...

ZtalkerRM wrote...

ohnoyoudidnt wrote...

Forbes is a better gaming journalist website than any other blindfolds-on game journal website out there

Ever since DA2 I'm asking myself how the hell gaming sites like Gamespot and IGN can blindly give 9's and 10's to games while turning a blind eye to obvious problems. They get to play the games weeks, months before we do and you'd think, out of all people, they would feel the responsability to 'prevent' or encourage potential buyers from buying games if they think a game sucks or is great.

I just feel sorry for all those young people (who don't have the momey to buy multiple games) who saved up for ME3, read the Gamespot article and then spent their hard working money on it. Bioware and the famous game sites have just...stolen 60 bucks from these people.

Nearly all the major Gaming sites seem to be what in the movie industry are called "Quote ****s". Critics who are paid by the studios to make glowing sound-bite reviews like "Awesome!" or "Best Movie of the Year!". Now there are lots of those in filmdom but also more critics who are seperated from that, so we have a good balance. Not so in the gaming industry. <_<

As an avid film watcher most of the time those quotes are  taken out of context from the rest of the review. I cant remember the movie but there was a controversy where one studio made up quotes that it stuck in one of the commercials. The thing with movies though is that if you look at all the reviews as a whole it generally gives a good representation of a movie sometimes there are movies i like or dislike that go the other way but overall its fairly accurate. 

This doesnt really exist in the gaming industry. as there arent as many review sites and the whole advertisement problem and the fact that anyone here has the same qualifications to write a game review as any of those people.

[Major Maiming]

To be honest most destructive criticism is for the most part non-sensical and pretty much unhelpful but even if it is it shouldn't be ignored by Bioware, or any company for that matter. It shows that there is something amiss, negative and positive feedback is to be expected regardless of the subject matter, but the plethora of complaints cannot be ignored.

The quote below I find to be quite condescending and patronising to the fans;

"Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by
our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as
seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for
example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive."


This statement is in terribly bad taste; if someone has gone to the trouble of voicing their opinion 'in the heat of passion' then it is therefore valid! D**n what the content is, the fact that the opinion has been given voice belies Ray's statement on constructive and destructive feedback, as it shows what at least some of the fanbase are feeling, so to an extent it is something to be considered as constructive. I venture to use the expression certain Brit politicians are so fond of in saying that the above statement is a 'damp squib' while I don't hold with Bioware abuse to staff or the company itself I condemn their attitude to peoples' reactions. I'm also hardly surprised that the terms and conditions of the forums have changed, with the huge influx of complaints and attacks it isn't something that can be left as it is, attacking the staff isn't the way to get your way but I understand the mindset behind it.

So pack up your abuse and give them the constructive feedback they ask for, we're that much closer to getting what we want that way anyways...
Simples...

[tetrisblock4x1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

"-the notion that artists ought only respond to constructive criticism is delirious. If games are truly art, and the teams who develop them truly artists, why should they be treated with kid’s gloves?
        There is no need to take a “constructive” attitude with talented artists,” writes Stephen Bond, “if anything, they find such an attitude more offensive. As H.L. Mencken said: “I do not object to being denounced, but I can’t abide being schoolmastered, especially by men I regard as imbeciles.” The constructive critic is a crow who takes it upon himself to educate the eagle; one who tries to force his own limitations on those who can soar far higher, unencumbered.”

Wut?

Constructive criticims is the best kind of criticism.

And the underlined is utter BS.

Well according to Ray, Bioware are masters of their art so I don't think they really want our advice.

[Adamski_707]

Interesting article.

On a side note i find it ironic how the guy acting aggressively on the first page of this thread has a batarian as his avatar.

[android654]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...Well according to Ray, Bioware are masters of their art so I don't think they really want our advice.

:lol:

[Silicon Drifter 82]

Adamski_707 wrote...

Interesting article.

On a side note i find it ironic how the guy acting aggressively on the first page of this thread has a batarian as his avatar.

They are pretty pissed for nuking one of their star systems in ME 2.

[AlienSpaceBats]

Good article.

I can understand how criticism is hard as I've worked as an artist and it can be crushing, however in this situation, everyone here is the perfect critic for Mass Effect 3 because we're the people who the game was made for. If your audience hates what you've done, it's fairly obvious you've done it wrong.

[Lotion Soronarr]

According to me, this whole things has crossed the treshold ofredicolous and moved into the realms of self-parody.

Both Bioware and a whole lot of "fans" should be ashamed.