247 réponses à ce sujet

[Oilking72]

After that lates video breakdown by Angry Joe or whatever, I'd love for it to be the case. So many things that were mentioned just scream indoctrination.

[kalle90]

CyberMiguel wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

I liked it but no longer do if Bioware uses it. Because frankly, that shows the same level of laziness on their part as that Tali picture or the Winter picture or the thing that sucks in the Normandy at the end picture and everything else they didn't have enough creative juices to make themselves.

Well apparently originally there was going to be something involving indoctrination, but BW decided it won't work/no one likes it/something, so they could just say "Due to massive feedback we decided to fall back to our original plan" or "Our original ending wasn't quite up to our standards before release and we didn't want to postpone release"

Actually, they stated that they couldn't implement it (at that time) the way they wanted because it was too difficult for the framework to work and it had several bugs (or something like that). In the end, it was for technical reasons they couldn't implement it the way they originally wanted to...

..but who says they didn't implement it in another way? 

....aaaand yes, I support the indoctrination theory as it fits everything. 

Whatever the reason was what counts is that it does feel like something was cut from the end. It would seem odd that they have a concept, but then decide "No, lets just cut it and leave the ending like that with small copypaste ending videos we came up in the last minute"

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I only like the Indoc Theory in the sense that it gives an easy way to change the ending by simply tacking more stuff onto the end.

[Draconus96]

If the indoctrination theory turns out to be true, then Bioware just had a massive win. But the problem is that, depending on it's veracity, whether or not Bioware tells the truth, whether or not we believe Bioware is telling the truth, and whether or not Bioware alters the ending, there are very few outcomes that don't end in Bioware screwing us or us screwing Bioware. Given their track record, I believe the former is far less likely than the latter. That said, it's entirely possible, if not probable, that even if the indoctrination theory is correct, and thus one of the most subtle and utterly brilliant game series endings of all time (even more so because it was intentional), Bioware will lie, say they screwed up, and flush that brilliance down the toilet to appease the less perceptive members of their fan base.

[Montcristo]

I think the indoctrination theory is the correct ideia. Although I think that Shepard becaume indoctrinated not when he takes the attack form Harbinger but when he meets the Ilusive Man. Lets not forgent that the Illusive Man is not a typical indoctrination like Saren or others that are exposed to reaper tech. The Illusive man actually implanted reaper tech inside him so he probably half reaper or something and can indoctrinate.

[Jebediah Springfield]

Where's the full theory? From what I've read it's pretty bad.

[Ghost]

NO

[Visserian99]

Personally, I think Indoc Theory is a way that the fan base is trying to turn the lemon of an ending into lemonade (or as Cave Johnson would say, "Exploding Lemons").

With that being said, I would have absolutely no problem with the Indoc Theory becoming canon.

[Kreidian]

No! Hell No! GOOD GOD NO!

I HATE this Indoctrination Theory with a passion.

Being indoctrinated is basically worse then the endings we have now. It's literally taking away all of Shepard's free will, it's ripping out Your Shepard from your control to be the puppet of BioWare's writers from that point on. It is everything that people hate about the endings now but made worse because on top of everything else, now you know you failed your mission.

Even in the best possible outcome, where you resist indoctrination, you're still lying half dead on Earth having, as I said above, utterly failed to stop the Reapers.

It's telling that so many people support the indoctrination theory; likely a sign of how much people couldn't stand the current endings that they're willing to believe anything and succumb to anything if it means that none of it really happened.

But it'd still be a horrible way to end the game IMO.

[Ieldra]

There is nothing - game content, fan suggestions, anything - that ever appeared on BSN that I hate as much as I hate the indoctrination hypothesis. It is an insult, an abomination that would be singular in managing to make an abysmal ending worse than it already is. Its promoters have the gall to complain about choices not mattering and then reduce the viable options for the existing final choice to ONE! What utter hypocrisy! They have the arrogance to define what should be true not just for their Shepards, but for others' as well, to define the motivations of Shepard beyond anything the game has ever done, destroying the character integrity of the protagonists of everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Down with the Indoctrination hypothesis!

[NM_Che56]

To me, it makes the most sense. It can be built upon and has easier outs than treating the endings like they really happened.

That video really got me thinking. Hell, if the IT is wrong, then kudos to the theory anyway. I was at least entertained entertaining it.

[Poleaxe]

It should be true, but I doubt it.

[NM_Che56]

Jebediah Springfield wrote...

Where's the full theory? From what I've read it's pretty bad.

Synopsis:

1) Shepard was exposed to reaper tech quite a bit.  Enough to start getting indoctrinated.  Sovereign, derelict reapers, Object Rho etc.  How many times can you break a mercury thermometer and not get mercury poisoning?

2) The hoodie boy is only seen by Shepard.  Very "Sixth Sense".  Anderson doesn't notice him.  The boy disappears in the vent and no one helps him on the evac shuttle.  Also (my input) the boy is pretty calm considering what's going on.

3) The codex reading overlayed with the "dream" sequence has elements of indoctrination process.  The whispers.  the black showdy things.  Insidiously chipping away at Shep with guilt and fear.

4) When the beam hits Shep. He's battered...with a gun that has limitless amo...The shrubs on the ground appear out of place and look like the stuff in the dream.

5) Anderson and TIM are like the Devil and Angel on Sheps shoulder

6) Star child looks like boy.  Ghost hoodie?  The image appeals to Sheps softer side.  Willingness to listen.  Star child tries to persuade Shep to take other routes and not destruction.  Afterall, it would destroy the Geth (and EDI).  Proposes control and sythesis.  Control = becoming a repear.  Synthesis = Humans are the new collectors.

7) A lot of the objects in the room seem out of place and a lot like what's on earth.  The wheels on the APVs, etc.

8) The rubble on sheppard when he "comes to" is of a different substrate than what was in the starchild room.  Looks more like Earth Rubble.


Harby was trying to complete the indoctrination.  Sheppard's resistance is manifested in TIM's death.  It all occurs in Sheps head when he is at his weakest.

Modifié par Master Che, 23 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[kalle90]

Kreidian wrote...
Even in the best possible outcome, where you resist indoctrination, you're still lying half dead on Earth having, as I said above, utterly failed to stop the Reapers.

It's telling that so many people support the indoctrination theory; likely a sign of how much people couldn't stand the current endings that they're willing to believe anything and succumb to anything if it means that none of it really happened.

But it'd still be a horrible way to end the game IMO.

Assuming the theory is right we never see if Shepard is actually half dead, he could have just been knocked out for a couple of minutes. Never reaching the beam in the first place so there's plenty of hope.

Some people have succumbed to Reapers yet they have their own mind to an extent and can start to fight back again. Seeing what Shepard has accomplished and how Reapers "respect" and want him I could see Shepard is still Shepard and not a mindless minion. In similiar way as Leon Kennedy was infected with Las Pragas in Resident Evil 4. You are forced to help Reapers to an extent (or kill yourself and doom everyone) until you find a way out whether it's sacrifical suicide or Reaper's destruction.

Without going too in-depth, here's what I think could happen:
Free mind:
- Shepard wakes and fights off the angered reaper strike troops
- Shepard enters the beam and arrives in citadel
- Shepard fights his way through some leftover Cerberus and Reaper forces
- Shepard finds TIM and some of his squadmates in the control room
- X Happens
- The end, epilogue.

Indoctrinated:
- Shepard wakes and is contacted and welcomed by Harbinger, they have need for his skills
- Shepard is forced to fight some of his former allies (or kill himself right there knowing it's the end of hope)
- Shepard learns that someone is at Crucible and he heads there fighting his way through Cerberus troops
- Shepard finds TIM and some of his squadmates in the control room
- X Happens
- The end, epilogue.

That X can involve anything from conversations to fighting, people dying, surviving, winning, losing, Crucible offering multiple solutions (the 3 we know but also more), relays and planets surviving, destroyed etc. etc.

[Dominator24]

Its better then wha we original got so , yeah.

[Sanctioned Psyker]

I feel the ME Indoctrination theory would be a fantastic transition into chronologically-progressed ME games if Bioware wanted to exploit it. I also feel it would be an incredible masterstroke in storytelling to have something so obvious be so subtle.

[Sean]

TheDragonPrincess wrote...

So, do you like it?
I definetly hate it! I don't want my Shepard to be a sleeper agent for the reapers!
If BioWare will use that in ME3 new dlc ending I'm so not buying it!
And if Shep will die in dlc ending I don't buy it!

I don't like the full blown indoctrination theory.

I think it is more of Attempted Indoctrination, since that makes the most sense.

It already has been part of the series that a reaper doesn't have to try to indoctrinate, it just does it.

So, maybe when Harbinger blasted Shep (probably away from the blast since it couldn't blast him towards the beam) he/she is just under some rubble and Harbinger thinks Shep is dead (or at least close and leaves him to bleed)

Then since Harbinger is the MAIN reaper, his indoctrination is stronger and it is amplified by Shep being unconsious.
Then the "end" plays out like normal but Shep chooses Destroy and he/she wakes up.
Then the true ending begins.

[xX N7 Xx]

Descy_ wrote...

MystaisPC wrote...

My issue is that Anderson states he came up to the Citadel in a different room which may have been closer to the central console than Shephard and he was not as injured as Shep so probably moved faster *shrug*... and... the Prothean AI in the Cerberus HQ stated that the Illusive Man had left there and headed to the Citadel.

So both Anderson and the Illusive Man were probably there for real.

There was only one entrance to the room though, Anderson would have had to pass shepard.

The walls were moving remember?

[Accism]

I think it's remarkably telling that so many people think that what is essentially an "it was all a dream!" twist makes more sense than taking the ending at face value. And I'm one of them!

Even though on the face of it it seems absurd, it's the only way BioWare can please everyone without completely rewriting the vanilla ending altogether, something which is, let's be honest, unfeasible for business reasons. Whether they "intended" it or not is irrelevant at this point, because it just makes far too much sense than anything else.

It also gives them a pretty convenient get-out clause in terms of continuing the story - if we assume that the synthesis and control options are falling for indoctrination, then they can safely ignore them for any future DLC or separate games, making the destruction endings the default. Just like the Shepherd dies ending in ME2, players who pick synthesis or control will find their story ends there. it doesn't invalidate their choices, it's a recognition that if Shepherd dies (or loses her/his free will, same thing) that player's story obviously ends there, just as with ME2 if Shepherd dies.

[Adynata]

I like it. At first I wasn't convinced, but after reading very thoughtful fan debates about it I think it seems pretty convincing. Do I believe it's what Bioware intended? I'm really not sure. If it was then it was poorly executed.

I don't think it makes Shep a puppet or sleep agent for the Reapers. It shows that Shepard was subjected to the same indoctrination that so many others received. And if you make the right choice you can fight it off.

[Skeloton]

The only theory I accept is my own. That our journey with shepard is nothing but a story being told by a grandfather to grandson.

[the almighty moo]

ashwind wrote...

No. There is even less sense in the Reapers trying to indoctrinate Shepard at that moment than anything I have seen.

Why why why in the heavens would the Reapers want to do that? Harbinger just wanna rub it in? Harbinger has nothing better to do?

Edit: -possible spoiler removed-

I think so, Harbinger is THAT much of a spiteful arse.

[BootyBamBoo]

I don't want Bioware to change the Ending or explain it with a 30min of gameplay and 30 min of epilogue. I want the ending to continue, which i guess means i want the indoctrination theory to be true.

[avatar2396]

At its core its not too bad. I like the idea of harbinger trying to corrupt the galaxy's beacon of light so to speak. It would consistent with how the reapers operate. Anderson mentions that since they know shepard is rallying support it gives hope to people on the ground. If its done as a fight for his soul type thing id be fine with that.

I really dont think this will happen though