247 réponses à ce sujet

[Rynocerous]

I , personally , don't like it.

Granted, I think the ending is very sub-optimal.

However, the entire IT movement is based on nothing but the fact that there are plot holes and things that don't make sense in the game, which are clearly either signs of being rushed and not explaining what happens or just flat out sloppy storytelling. We've had these all throughout the series, I am working on a fan fic of nothing but fixing all these holes.

However, since most people liked the results thus far, no one crafted a theory around these. You could do the same with ME 1 and ME 2 (take something poorly explained and make some outlandish theory about it.)

Bottom line, the DLC coming out will flesh out the holes in the ending so it makes more 'sense', and I use that word advisedly. Anyone clinging to IT is going to be upset because of the three main logical flaws in the theory that , so far, no one has addressed.

1) All others have fought off indoctrination only by killing themselves or allowing themselves to be killed after lengthy conversation. NO ONE has ever 'resisted' indoctrination. It is an off/on state. 

2) Indoctrination is a subtle change to the way you think. At no time in any description of it do we see hallucinations, images, or things of that nature. We see memories being affected, we see thinking processes being derailed, we see motivations being used against a person, but we never see someone imagining things in complete abayance of reality.

3) If the IT theory is real then ostensibly two of the three endings are where the indoctination wins. I presume what follows those two endings is also hallucinatory?

[Xellith]

Rynocerous wrote...

I , personally , don't like it.

Granted, I think the ending is very sub-optimal.

However, the entire IT movement is based on nothing but the fact that there are plot holes and things that don't make sense in the game, which are clearly either signs of being rushed and not explaining what happens or just flat out sloppy storytelling. We've had these all throughout the series, I am working on a fan fic of nothing but fixing all these holes.

However, since most people liked the results thus far, no one crafted a theory around these. You could do the same with ME 1 and ME 2 (take something poorly explained and make some outlandish theory about it.)

Bottom line, the DLC coming out will flesh out the holes in the ending so it makes more 'sense', and I use that word advisedly. Anyone clinging to IT is going to be upset because of the three main logical flaws in the theory that , so far, no one has addressed.

1) All others have fought off indoctrination only by killing themselves or allowing themselves to be killed after lengthy conversation. NO ONE has ever 'resisted' indoctrination. It is an off/on state. 

2) Indoctrination is a subtle change to the way you think. At no time in any description of it do we see hallucinations, images, or things of that nature. We see memories being affected, we see thinking processes being derailed, we see motivations being used against a person, but we never see someone imagining things in complete abayance of reality.

3) If the IT theory is real then ostensibly two of the three endings are where the indoctination wins. I presume what follows those two endings is also hallucinatory?

Firstly.  I dont agree with the common and most widely spread indoc theory.

Most people dont even realize they are indoctrinated.  When "shown the light".  Thats when some get some abilitiy to free themselves through death. 

As you said it is kind of an "on/off switch".  Which is why at the end of the game you see the ghostly prescence.  The catalyst.  Even his voice is made up of the voice of man/femshep combined with the child.  The child whom you have been seeing in your indoctrination dreams.  The dreams with "whispers you cant quite hear" and "oily shadows". 

Rapid or slow indoctrination eventually means "you just stop thinking for yoursef".  Did you listen to the conversation with the catalyst?  "I need to stop the reapers.  Do you know how I can do that?".  "Yea.. But how?"  "Now what?"  etc etc.  Then YOU as the PLAYER decide what you do.  Whether or not you are indoctrinated depends on the option you pick.  Your "on/off switch" isnt flicked until you choose.

Im not saying that everything after Harbingers beam was a dream or hallucination.  I believe that what you saw actually did happen.  But you cant deny the fact that the majority of the game shows shepard suffering from indoctrination.  And even the ending scene with the catalyst gives even more evidence towards it.

The point is - you as a player probobly didnt even realize what you were doing when you picked your choice.  This is why a lot of people picked synthesis.  The catalyst subtly hints that this is the best option.

So baically:
Synthesis = you become indoctrinated
Destroy = victory
Control = unsure.. about.. its a risk whether or not it would work..

The events that unfold afterwards are real.  Least this is my interpertation.  I made a video about it but its not really good.

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Xellith, 17 juin 2012 - 07:27 .

[DaJe]

I would like it only if the real ending (not the vague space magic nonsense bullcrap we got) came after that. That would have earned a lot of respect.

No IT = horrible ending.
With IT = no ending at all.
This mess can not be saved.

[Feanor_II]

It has a good background work...... But I really grew fed up with it, tired of all those threads about IT that seem like preaching to convert (indcotrinate) all non believers, almost as a cult movement.

Modifié par Feanor_II, 17 juin 2012 - 09:34 .

[Cobalt2113]

No. People if you dislike the canon ending so much you need to create a new ending in your imagination. That's fine, that's your business.

But I really wish you'd stop trying to force this fan-fiction onto the rest of us.

[dsl08002]

its very clever in my opinion nad after seeing the documentery i belive in it and like it.

[alkyr8]

After watching the documentary and reading the about it yeah I like it and believe it about 99%. However I still have some doubt, but that is just because I try not to rule out any possibilities, I hope it is true though.

Modifié par alkyr8, 17 juin 2012 - 10:08 .

[Get Magna Carter]

Rynocerous wrote...
I , personally , don't like it.
.....

2) Indoctrination is a subtle change to the way you think. At no time in any description of it do we see hallucinations, images, or things of that nature. We see memories being affected, we see thinking processes being derailed, we see motivations being used against a person, but we never see someone imagining things in complete abayance of reality.
...

read the codex entry on indoctrination in the game.  It says people affected by indoctrination sometimes see ghosts or experience hallucinations (or something like that)

Modifié par Get Magna Carter, 17 juin 2012 - 10:34 .

[OrginaVendor]

I'd say not to brush aside IT as soon as you see it and read more into how it can help ME3's ending and what it does exactly. IT is not some kind of cult which is trying to bring false proof to an imaginary explanation of the current ending, its mostly just one theory that can further the present ME3 story beyond the mediocre endings we have now

Modifié par OrginaVendor, 17 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[Peytl]

OrginaVendor wrote...

I'd say not to brush aside IT as soon as you see it and read more into how it can help ME3's ending and what it does exactly. IT is not some kind of cult which is trying to bring false proof to an imaginary explanation of the current ending, its mostly just one theory that can further the present ME3 story beyond the mediocre endings we have now

IT is some kind of cult which is trying to bring false proof to an
imaginary explanation of the current, its mostly just one theory that
can't further the current ME3 story beyond the bad endings we have now

Modifié par Peytl, 17 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[Xellith]

IT is a cult? Which version of IT? I dont agree with the dream version if thats the one you are talking about.  (check my sig for more details)

Modifié par Xellith, 17 juin 2012 - 10:52 .

[SynheKatze]

I'd say it creates more problems than it solves.

[Soultaker08]

I dont like IT, because in my opinion its seeing shadows , when they arent there.

i read the whole theory, i watched many videos , looked into new "evidence" threads, and got even more disagreeing.

If Bioware goes with it, well then :" Bioware no way im gonna buy one of your games again within 12 months after release , so i get the REAL FULL CONTENT, for half the prize, thx"

Modifié par Soultaker08, 17 juin 2012 - 12:08 .

[UltimateTobi]

I like the IT, and I'll stick to it 'til the end! ;D

[areuexperienced]

The whole Indoctrination Theory thing screams of tinfoil hats.

[lythran9]

i like the IT, i like the different theories and evidence people are coming up with however i honestly can't see it happening, and if they did finally give in and make the IT part of the dlc, i dont think they could pull it off. But i will admit there are certain points in the game where i thought to my self "that doesn't sit right" and the IT would explain it perfectly

[Nightwriter]

I liked it when people weren't treating it like an objective truth that I must be blind to deny.

[AlanC9]

Xellith wrote...
 But you cant deny the fact that the majority of the game shows shepard suffering from indoctrination.  

I can't?

[StElmo]

TheDragonPrincess wrote...

So, do you like it?
I definetly hate it! I don't want my Shepard to be a sleeper agent for the reapers!
If BioWare will use that in ME3 new dlc ending I'm so not buying it!
And if Shep will die in dlc ending I don't buy it!

Spoilers ahead sorry...
And sorry. I'm Finn so my english isn't great and I didn't know what No Spoilers ment. (I know it now)

"
yes I think it is a clever interpretation, and if true, is a very cunning and risky move, but something I can respect.

[abaris]

areuexperienced wrote...

The whole Indoctrination Theory thing screams of tinfoil hats.

This. Reminds me of 9/11 truthers.

Also I can't quite get what's the attraction with all that indoctrination ruckus. If it was true, it would mean a total victory for the reapers. Would make the ending even worse.

[Robhuzz]

I like it a lot better than taking the ending at face value that's for sure. I will need a lot of variables in any IT though. A mandatory ''Shepard lived through indoctrination for a time to defeat the reapers but then had to be shot by his LI'' or some other crappy plotline invented for the sake of making the ending grimdark (BioWare would call it ''bittersweet'') wouldn't make it any better.

Anything is better than the starchild and the RGB ending and the elements of the current ending though.

[RaggieRags]

I personally don't like it, but if "it was all just a dream!" is enough excuse for them to retcon the kid out and make an actual ending out of this nonsensical "art" of theirs, I'm all for it.

[Cobalt2113]

Robhuzz wrote...

Anything is better than the starchild and the RGB ending and the elements of the current ending though.

Hmmm ok how about this then...

Shepard gets killed by Harbinger's beam. Then the reapers proceed to kill every living thing. Inlcuding Joker, everyone on board the Normandy and all the characters you've met throughout entire game.

That sounds like a better ending to you does it?

Seriously the ending could have been a lot worse than what we got. In fact 90% of the endings they could've chosen would still likely have ended up with just as many people ****ing.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 17 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[AlanC9]

I'm pretty sure Robhuzz didn't want us to read that comment literally.

[Xellith]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Anything is better than the starchild and the RGB ending and the elements of the current ending though.

Hmmm ok how about this then...

Shepard gets killed by Harbinger's beam. Then the reapers proceed to kill every living thing. Inlcuding Joker, everyone on board the Normandy and all the characters you've met throughout entire game.

That sounds like a better ending to you does it?

For games with bad choices.  Sounds fine to me.