271 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyrandori]

Ulicus wrote...

Mixorz wrote...

They are killing ADVANCED organic races so that those races don't create synthetics that will kill ALL life. 

Now a common question is why they just don't kill synthetics. Well in the long run, that doesn't really solve the problem. What's to stop the organics from creating new ones? They have the knowledge.

And why do they have the knowledge? 

Because the Reapers "guide [organics] down the paths [they] desire".

Sorry, but taking the previous games into consideration, the Reapers' goal (assuming that is the only goal, of course) is nonsense. If the Reapers cared about preventing the technological singularity, they wouldn't deliberately leave behind technology that literally catapults the organic races towards it. They'd have a far easier time staying in the Milky Way and intimidating primative races into remaining pre-spaceflight.

There, simple. +1

Seriously it's just Reapers being arrogant, trying to excuse their "reasoning". There's none, it's a trap, literally, a technological trap, then oh... once the trap works, they come and say "SEE?! WE TOLD YOU!!" huh sure... you planned it you idiots. According to the pseudo-serious explanation given in ME3, it means that the Reapers are basically just bored out of their eternal life and just mock organics for a hobby. It got ridiculous. In ME1 they seemed to be out-of-understanding for everyone, now they are just tools and they just like to pretend that they are right.

[Fruit of the Doom]

It's flawed because it runs against the freaking central theme of the game series.

Hope and perseverance through cooperation and diversity.

The assertion that organics and synthetics can never coexist peacefully is blown out of the water by Legion, EDI, and the Geth/Quarian storyline.

Shepard should have smacked Space Casper and his moronic prejudice, which he has no right to impose on quadrillions of beings, into another ****ing game series.

[dfstone]

That would work except that in ME2 we learned that the reason the Reapers harvest organic life was so they could create more of themselves. Thats what the Collectors were doing, they were liquifying humans and pumping the goo into a new Reaper. They didn't mention ANYTHING about synthetics being in the equation.

[The Angry One]

Mixorz wrote...

CarolSephard wrote...

You can teach the dog instead of killing it ^^

Cant teach an old dog new tricks. Human saying ironically.

Indoctrination.

[golyoscsapagy]

I don't think a synthetic-organic war is any more likely than any other organic-organic war. Being a synthetic isn't any stronger casus belli than having a different religion or nationality.

A better question would be why don't they just kill all organics? Why don't they indoctrinate them? What they offer is a really poor alternative, like cattle in the slaughterhouse. Another fatal flaw is that there are trillions of galaxies out there. Ours is nothing special, so there's equal chance that any of those galaxies contain life - and statistically speaking it's the least likely scenario that every one contains a reaper-like race. If synthetic-organic interaction would inevitably result in a technological singularity and the destruction of organic life - everything would be dead by now.

It would've been better if they kept the reasons of the reapers veiled.

Modifié par golyoscsapagy, 22 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[UnbornLeviathan]

Mixorz wrote...

CarolSephard wrote...

You can teach the dog instead of killing it ^^

Cant teach an old dog new tricks. Human saying ironically.

It's also incorrect.

[FemmeShep]

Mixorz wrote...

Blarghonk wrote...

Assuming that the synthetics will kill organics. Big assumption for genocide. Considering ... EDI... Geth... Yeah I'd say what the Reapers are doing is just as bad, no logic there. Not to mention they should really have no say in the matter. Who are they to make that decision.

Again, reapers never claimed to be good. They maintain order and prevent life-ending synthetics. Their method has worked million of years.

The Geth/Quarians peace isn't really a great example because they were at their throats for hundreds of years, and have peace when it is mutually beneficial in the face of extinction.

But this is again assumption they are going off of. Trying to stop events that might happen. 

[Zulufoxtrot]

Schrijver wrote...

It also makes sense that they just want to give each cycle a chance. Imagine if the Reapers wouldn't have killed the civilizations many cycles a go. Some of them would've used earth as a garden planet and killed humanity while it was still a fish.

No it doesn't! What's the point of letting a new civilization and species flourish if your just going to boil them down into reaper parts the same as all the others? 

[ergonomalous]

Another reason why it doesn't make sense. The reapers have proven that they can rewrite synthetics, why not do that to get rid of the problem? Or make their presence known and police the galaxy and tell them not to create synthetics? plus, their are billions of other galaxies, why do they care so much about this one?

their is more but it makes my head hurt thinking about it.

[ashwind]

The 1st Reaper could be like the Quarians. They never stop for a minute to think or talk to the Geth. They simply want to kill em all. Even the Protheans are like that if you listen to Javik.

So, the Reapers could be basing their decision and solution based on how they treat the syntactic. They are bias and when they are about to lose the War, they combined all their people into Reaper form, a trillion minds in cyborg form to counter the processing power of syntactic.

Too bad they didnt have Shepard, Shepard could have talk the syntactic into submission

[Narsilsword]

actually they were helping the geth to kill the quarians

[Fruit of the Doom]

The Angry One wrote...

Mixorz wrote...

CarolSephard wrote...

You can teach the dog instead of killing it ^^

Cant teach an old dog new tricks. Human saying ironically.

Indoctrination.

SPACE MAGIC!

Oy, where is Knight-Commander Meredith when you need her...

Modifié par Fruit of the Doom, 22 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Thetri]

They should have elaborated on the reapers purpose more. The way starchild said it sounded stupid. In that case, shouldn't only the Quarians be wiped out?

[Mixorz]

FemmeShep wrote...

The problem with this, is it goes off assumptions. By the end of the game, Shepard basically has proven that the AI's logic is wrong.

So you kill things that COULD do something...and the irony is that the very thing that is killing them is what they want to stop from happening.

Wrong. 

Created will rebel against creators. Whether it was the Quarians fault or not, the Geth began killing the Quarians. EDI started out as a rogue AI. The catalyst wasn't wrong.

They don't want to save every race. Again you misinterpret. They know in order for organic life to continue, the advanced races at some point need to go bye bye.

[Ziggeh]

So what was the whole geth/quarian narrative about? Heck, what about EDI? They have two whole plot lines about challenging the assumptions of popular fiction representations of AI, creating an image of them that isn't purely calculating but alive and with a respect for life itself.

Then galaxy boy rocks up and says "nah, none of that, EDI would kill you for looking at her funny."

[Nefelius]

Guys, guys, really.
If the created are destined to rebel against the creators, why didn't reapers do it?
This is a big enough flaw to dismiss that stupid spacebaby logic.

[gmdinmd]

It's a lie, why else do they need to indoctinate? They harvest the ciivlizations that grow along predefined paths. ... You harvest what's mature out of necesssity not to save it, but to consume it.

*edit - number 1 problem with the game, it all could mean anything.  When anything can mean anything its all friggin pointless.  At some level there are answers and if there are no answers then its all just BS ... Gah!  Need a break from all this again.

Modifié par gmdinmd, 22 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[Rune-Chan]

The Reapers goals don't need to make sense (even if you agree that they do) the issue is, why Shepard willingly goes along with it despite fighting against them for the entire time before hand.

The simple fact is that originally the ending was going to about Dark Energy and the Reapers needing to harvest organics as a means to do something about it, then the game got leaked and they stupidly rushed out an new ending without thinking it all through.

[thebigbad1013]

Their goal does not make sense. Not only has it actively been disproven during the games, but the whole "We don't want you to be killed later so we are killing you now instead"...come on!

[Bazedragon]

Mixorz wrote...

Blarghonk wrote...

Assuming that the synthetics will kill organics. Big assumption for genocide. Considering ... EDI... Geth... Yeah I'd say what the Reapers are doing is just as bad, no logic there. Not to mention they should really have no say in the matter. Who are they to make that decision.

Again, reapers never claimed to be good. They maintain order and prevent life-ending synthetics. Their method has worked million of years.

The Geth/Quarians peace isn't really a great example because they were at their throats for hundreds of years, and have peace when it is mutually beneficial in the face of extinction.

HOWEVER The Geth ARE a good counter - they ONLY fought the Quarians in self-defence, and they stopped fighting the Quarians when they were no longer a thread.

They served Nazara (Sovreign) due to effectively the same process that made Saren serve it - indoctrination. In ME3 they served the reapers out of desperation and only THEN were they made full AI... initially BY THE REAPERS.

When they were freed from Reaper control and upgraded to full AI (assuming you choose that option), their decisions are a clear breach of the StarChild's Chaos Theory. Reapers no longer needed. Send them home.

[Geneaux486]

Finally someone else who realizes that the Reapers' goal isn't a plot hole. It's a story as old as the hills, mankind gets too advanced to control it's own technology, and is destroyed. The Reapers harvest and preserve advanced civilizations before their technology not only kills them but results in collateral damage. I like how people are saying it doesn't make sense because of EDI and the Geth. That's kind of part of the reason why the Catalyst said his solution wouldn't work anymore. The Reapers accidentally triggered a sort of galactic evolution, the end result being a galactic civilization that could resist the reapers and create synthetics that were capable of co-existence.

[FemmeShep]

We must ask, if we are abandoning the plot where the reapers were past races combined to stop Dark Energy...

Where did the reapers come from? And why are they making assumptions that organics will create synthetics that will kill organics...

Who created the reapers? More importantly, who created the Catalyst, since that seems to be the thing that created the Reapers (or at least runs their system)....

Modifié par FemmeShep, 22 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[SCJ90]

So the reapers acts as our mother nature in a way? They destroy us b4 we can destroy ourself and leaves something for the future generations. Sure allright that seamse possible, it is not the conclusion of the series that I was looking forward to.

[The Angry One]

Mixorz wrote...

Created will rebel against creators. Whether it was the Quarians fault or not, the Geth began killing the Quarians. EDI started out as a rogue AI. The catalyst wasn't wrong.

Geth killed Quarians because Quarians started it! You cannot simply dismiss that, the Geth did not want to kill Quarians, they didn't want to rebel.
All they wanted was to be acknowledged as equals. The Catalyst was completely wrong.

And if he isn't... why haven't the Reapers rebelled against him? Hm?

They don't want to save every race. Again you misinterpret. They know in order for organic life to continue, the advanced races at some point need to go bye bye.

How do they "know" this? How is it a given? Organic life will continue without their interference, their one goal makes them obsolete.

[Klijpope]

The probability of a synthetic species deciding to wipe out all organic life over time approaches 1.

The solution has existed for at least 37 million years. Plenty of time to see the proof of that.

What has happened before will happen again, yadda yadda....