618 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingCow371]

So, nice article. The IGN dude was all about a company listening to fans and doing something cool for them with that other game, but then completely opposed in the case of mass effect. But I don't really expect him to make sense though, so that's fine.

But to the people saying it's completely different...why? One case, there were complaints about something that was shown during development. Company changed it, people were happy. In the case of Mass Effect, there are complaints about problems in the story during DLC development...bioware maybe changes/improves stuff now, taking this feedback into account, makes fans happy. What's the big difference? That in one case, the outcry/feedback/changes were made during the original game development, and now it's during DLC development?

With the state of gaming today, when DLC is more and more common...a game's development is not truly complete upon release. Often, if a game does well, there's another release later...a "game of the year", or "complete", or "extended" edition which includes all the DLC. So, just because the disc has shipped doesn't mean the creative process of ME3 is finished. This is still a legitimate time for fans to make their voices heard.

It wouldn't even be that hard for bioware to just add in another branch or two during the ending, leaving the original 3 choices intact for the people that really like them. Games have had multiple endings for a long time, I don't know why this IGN dude must fight so strongly that an epic story that's all about choices, and making your own story, can only have 1 ending. Chrono Trigger comes to mind as a game with many different endings. If you didn't like one, don't get it...it's not a big deal.

[RLesueur]

LOL I love Forbes.

[Rockpopple]

Sepharih wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

marshkoala wrote...


@Rockpopple 
I don't know I a thing about Infamous 2 and so I can't comment.


What I can say is that I watched the IGN video and it was a raving rant against fans requesting change. It was really offensive to me, being 51 and playing the game, if you're going to disagree you can do so in a civil manner.


That said the Forbes article points out the inconsistencies with Colin's past comments.

Forbes' article doesn't go deep enough. All it does is show a surface so-called contradiction in Colin's past statement without going into how the two circumstances are COMPLETELY different.


But I bolded the real reason behind the love for Forbes and the hate for Moriarty. This is undeniable. It's not about trying to point out "inconsistencies" and "hypocrisy". It's about revenge. Pure and simple.

You have yet to establish that they are completely different.  The distinction you are making is irellevant because we are not arguing from a financial or economical standpoint about their ability to produce more content, nor was IGN.  It's moot.
We are arguing from a moral and philosophical standpoint about "artistic integrity" and "creators rights" and what say if any the fans have in the artist's creation.  You can't say its a dangerous precenent for fans to get a creator to change his work when you were championing another developer for listening to what their fans wanted and letting go of their own vision just a few months back.  You can change your mind but you can't have it both ways.

If I really have to explain to you how changing something during the development something and going back to change something after the development process is over and done with are two different things, then that's really the least of what I'd have to explain to you, isn't it?

If Colin Moriarty didn't make that clear in his little rant, that's fine, maybe he should have, but the difference is still there. The change in circumstance does colour people's perceptions, because that's what people do.

I wonder: to Kain and you and everyone else that wants BioWare to change the ending... what would you be thinking if a lot of people wanted a change an ending YOU actually LIKED?

Would you STILL be claiming that artistic integrity DOESN'T matter, and that fans should have a say in what the ending of a narrative is AFTER the narrative is completed? Or would you change your stance, and suddenly DEFEND artistic integrity, saying that the narrative should remain as shipped?

I'd really, really like to know that. Honestly, I probably only have to wait a few more months to get my answer.

[Twilight_Princess]

Ha! Forbes continues to get it!

[TurambarEA]

Great read, going to tweet IGN on it now - see what they have to say. My guess: nothing.

And yes, I'm still stunned that Forbes has been the stand out player for getting into the meat of this issue. Have followed @erikkain and @ForbesGames and will be reading what they have to say in the future.

[alberta]

Well, IGN does live entirely in the gaming universe - while Forbes has to survive in the real of journalism. In IGN's world they see us as kids with such limited intelligence they feel that they have to tell us what's best for us. Forbes, on the other hand, understands the gaming universe cuts across all levels and economic demographics of society. That there is no set player type or station in life - in other words they treat us as intelligent equals very capable of rendering solid judgments on what we do, what we purchase, and Forbes knows every single one of us have witness thousands of TV show, movies, and played hundreds of video games - if anyone on this planet know story-telling Forbes understands its us. No one group rises up for no reason who so ever - and Forbes understood our reasons for doing what we are attempting to do. And that we ARE entirely reasonable. THAT'S justice as justice should be rendered.

[Nephilym83]

SandSkorpion wrote...

Kain states "Here’s Colin Moriarty two years ago, discussing changes made by studio Sucker Punch to their game Infamous 2, after the release was met with fan backlash:"

That is 100% false. The fans spoke out when details of the character change (look/voice) were revealed during devleopment. Suckerpunch weighed their options and made adjustments prior to the game's release. What is happening here is completely different.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

While the underlined is in fact a false statement, it doesn't negate the fact that Moriarty is a hypocrite for suggesting it is a good thing for Suckerpunch to make changes according to fan demands but that Bioware would be setting a dangerous precedence.  Even if they made the change before release, they still listened to their community, which Moriarty commended them for.  So why is he so against Bioware doing the same thing?  Because the game is already out?  How much does that matter really?  What does it change?  Nothing.  The only difference is that Bioware already has our money and won't be losing any sales by disappointing us or pissing us off.

[KelaSaar]

Awesome article. I love Forbes so much right now.

[yuncas]

Jackal7713 wrote...

OMG So here is his response.

Colin Moriarty:
For those looking for clarity on my stance on Infamous 2's Cole and its differences from ME, we discuss it on last week's Podcast Beyond.

So we have to endure a pod cast on IGN's website to get an answer? So we get to add to IGN's traffic numbers, and have listen to pod cast to get some kind of answer? I don't think so. Moriarty can't talk off being a hypocrite.

Holy crap, what a clown. I bet he gets up in the morning and repeats to himself "I will be the biggest douchebag I can be today" 20 times. He certainly has the look down pat.

[Rockpopple]

The Angry One wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Dude, the irony is that the situation WASN'T the same and therefore the principle IS different. 

But don't expect logic to slow down a rage-filled and vengeful audience like you, and the others on this forums. He has other like-minded forum-members, as well as an ego the size of NY, to please after all.

The principle is exactly the same, fans wanting developers to change something they don't like. The end.
You refuse to see this, and resort to insults and raging to hide the fact that you have no point.

You are a disgrace to the Sisko.

You're wrong. Already explained. Not going to go into it again.

You're a disgrace to Commander Shepard. In fact, it's hard to find something you're NOT a disgrace to. 

[wasawsolos]

+1 for Forbes.

It's elementary colleagues, his name is Moriarty. His business is to try to get rid of us (retakers)

[shnellegaming]

wow

[Kosiji]

The funny thing is that other sites are getting noticed more than the fans are right now. Hahahaha! Hell, Kain & Collin are probably sipping on martini's across from each other in a office betting on who'll get more hits by the end of the week. Just saying.....don't lose yourself.

[Vhalkyrie]

Rockpopple wrote...

If I really have to explain to you how changing something during the development something and going back to change something after the development process is over and done with are two different things, then that's really the least of what I'd have to explain to you, isn't it?

Please do elaborate.

[pacientK]

Rockpopple wrote...

*sigh*

And people wonder why the developers don't listen to them.

Why should they?

What a waste.

Did you listen to answers you got in this thread? You should try it too sometime.

[RogueBot]

It seems to me that the most fair and balanced reporting lately isn't coming from major gaming outlets like IGN, Gamespot, or Kotaku, but from outsiders like Forbes, Angry Joe, Jeff Gertsmann etc. I'm starting to believe that the major outlets really are corrupted by their symbiotic relationship with the major publishers. I feel so naive that it's taken me this long to see it.

Modifié par RogueBot, 22 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[leianajade]

I like to think of myself as mature and reasonable. But I can't help it...

HAHA. PWN'D!

*cough*

Okay. I'm good.

[pavi132]

Here is the point: Colin stated that game developers of ME3 should not compromise their artistic integrity to cater to fans. However, he agreed that the makers of Infamous 2 were right to change their art to please the fans. That is the inconsistency.

I know that Infamous 2 was changed during development rather than after. However, how does that refute the point that they changed an aspect of their game due to the preferences of their fans? Even if the timing and situations were different, they still changed their game due to input of the players, which is exactly what Colin is saying shouldn't be done with ME3 but was ok with it being done to Infamous 2.

[Tinmachine]

This hurts you.

[RedNanaki]

Rockpopple wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Dude, the irony is that the situation WASN'T the same and therefore the principle IS different. 

But don't expect logic to slow down a rage-filled and vengeful audience like you, and the others on this forums. He has other like-minded forum-members, as well as an ego the size of NY, to please after all.

The principle is exactly the same, fans wanting developers to change something they don't like. The end.
You refuse to see this, and resort to insults and raging to hide the fact that you have no point.

You are a disgrace to the Sisko.

You're wrong. Already explained. Not going to go into it again.

You're a disgrace to Commander Shepard. In fact, it's hard to find something you're NOT a disgrace to. 

Let's all lay off the personal attacks before somebody gets banned. Please.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Easy win for Bioware if new DLC includes fighting a villian based on Moriarty.

[Ultra Prism]

That's win for us...

Hold the line people

[Dragoonlordz]

I said it elsewhere on same subject so will repeat here.

Holding the line is redundant because as mentioned elsewhere they have won nothing that they would not of got anyways. They would of got this additional content regardless just from constructive feedback which Bioware always asks for. The boycotts, the threats, the review bombing, the filing complaints with the FTC, emotional and financial blackmail, the aggression and arrogance of many (not all) was pointless. All feedback is asked for and upon which they would of created DLC to address such things as they always do even when remove all the nonsense people did in this case.

It is essentially a gimmick to make them feel better not affect change, change they would of got from feedback alone in first place like all titles Bioware makes do the same. Wait for feedback and apply it to DLC. Also Forbes are jumping on the popular opinion bandwagon to gain popularity. Forbes has gone down the crapper as far as respectable content goes. It means what happened was not needed, especially if it's only purpose or action was make it slightly faster. The content takes the same amount of time to make regardless so the only thing might have achieved is quicker reply/statement.

You only praise it because it agrees with you. It has bias to one side or another which invalidates it as respectable as far as I am concerned. A respectable publication does not take sides. It states facts and not assumptions especially not what they "think" something means when the only person who knows what they mean is the person saying it. Then again it is a blog article which means the writer has no more valid an opinion than you do or me so maybe I should not be so harsh.

ME3 was number 2 in the UK and number 1 in the USA chartsfor sales last week.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[Jackal7713]

phototed wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

OMG So here is his response.

Colin Moriarty:
For those looking for clarity on my stance on Infamous 2's Cole and its differences from ME, we discuss it on last week's Podcast Beyond.

So we have to endure a pod cast on IGN's website to get an answer? So we get to add to IGN's traffic numbers, and have listen to pod cast to get some kind of answer? I don't think so. Moriarty can't talk off being a hypocrite.

Why a podcast and not a blogpost?  

Oh well. 

popcorn moment?

Oh yes it is. Now we hear all his supporters say " well development is
different". This is because their fearless leader is a hypocrite.

Its the reaching game now to try an keep their argument vaid.

Get the popcorn ready cause this is getting funny

Modifié par Jackal7713, 22 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[Jenaimarre]

Guys, even if we disagree let's not allow things to get personal. Please.