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FORBES AGAIN: Kain just pwned Moriarty : Fans in the Right


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#576
Greed1914

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Akrim_Drak wrote...

Anteocitis wrote...

Wildhide wrote...

The sad thing is I doubt Moriarty will ever see the article, he doesn't seem the type from his videos to visit Forbes. And if he happens to, he won't respond to it. The kid doesn't know how to properly discuss or debate, he just trash talks. It's hard to trash talk when you're being shown to talk out of both sides of your mouth.


Oh I am pretty sure that somebody who used to be in the magazine business will point it out to him in person tomorrow.  ¬_¬


He read it. He tweeted this earlier:

"Journalism 101: When you write a story about an individual, you reach out to them for comment, clarification, et cetera."

to which someone responded:

@notaxation "Journalism 101: When you take a stance on something, don't contradict yourself."


That seems somewhat ironic.  Colin speaks of looking for comments and clarification, yet doesn't seem terribly concerned with presenting our side of this in any meaningful manner.

#577
Melancholic

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This. Feels. So. Good!

#578
magor1988x

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My respect for forbes has increased many many fold.

#579
Greed1914

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Also, I know on Podcast Beyond Colin dismissed the comparison to Broken Steel saying that it was purely because Bethesda was losing out on DLC sales because the game didn't have a post ending save that let people continue playing.

The funny thing is, it's not THAT different here. Yes, we have a post-game save, but plenty of folks aren't interested in upcoming DLC because they see no point. Regardless of the reasons, DLC sales are a factor for both companies.

Also, Fallout New Vegas doesn't have a post-game save either, and as far as I know, the DLC sales were pretty good for that game.

#580
Rickin10

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Ign are in an increasingly difficult position now. Their 'review' (along with other major sites) shows such a huge disconnect with user reactions it really brings the spotlight onto the incestuous relationship between themselves and the developers. Every time they try to belittle the fans, their motives become ever more transparent.

#581
Zaknaberrnon

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hawkens982 wrote...

Akrim_Drak wrote...

Anteocitis wrote...

Wildhide wrote...

The sad thing is I doubt Moriarty will ever see the article, he doesn't seem the type from his videos to visit Forbes. And if he happens to, he won't respond to it. The kid doesn't know how to properly discuss or debate, he just trash talks. It's hard to trash talk when you're being shown to talk out of both sides of your mouth.


Oh I am pretty sure that somebody who used to be in the magazine business will point it out to him in person tomorrow.  ¬_¬


He read it. He tweeted this earlier:

"Journalism 101: When you write a story about an individual, you reach out to them for comment, clarification, et cetera."

to which someone responded:

@notaxation "Journalism 101: When you take a stance on something, don't contradict yourself."


IGN guy just needs to stop and maybe do a career change.


or rather; the IGN guy is going to find out the hard way that anything you say on the internet is there to stay.
and can and will be quoted, brought up, whatever, by someone.

especially when you least expect it to.

#582
deathscythe517

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Fruit of the Doom wrote...

His name is freaking Moriarty. He was born to be a troll.


Fallout 3 player, by chance?

#583
Strategyking92

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Mass Effect has a way of letting you know who is friend and who is foe..... It was the first time back in 2007 when I realized that Fox News was full of s*** because of Mass Effect. Now, I am realizing just how corrupted Gaming websites such as IGN have become as well. Well, I already knew that, but now they are stooping to a new low by just plain insulting jilted ME fans.

#584
seek37

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I wonder how he liked the taste of his own foot?

#585
Cucobr

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magor1988x wrote...

My respect for forbes has increased many many fold.


[2]

#586
The Real Bowser

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So really, a new ending is neither groundbreaking nor dangerous. It’s
just listening to fans of a franchise. If they do it, I say infinite amounts of kudos to them.

Bam.  Hit the nail on the head.

#587
eddieoctane

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deathscythe517 wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

His name is freaking Moriarty. He was born to be a troll.


Fallout 3 player, by chance?


Maybe a fan of English literature.

#588
TJX2045

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 This is why I do not read articles or reviews on IGN.  They're the worst video game reporters.

Modifié par TJX2045, 22 mars 2012 - 11:49 .


#589
Chromie

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deathscythe517 wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

His name is freaking Moriarty. He was born to be a troll.


Fallout 3 player, by chance?


Sherlock Holmes by any chance?

#590
FutileSine

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Hah! I got such a sense of satisfaction from the Forbes article. It's fun when you can refute someone with their own words from a previous opinion piece.

#591
Lugaidster

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Anteocitis wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Every single developer out there presented with a situation like Bioware's now will have 2 difficult choices before them and there's no way to go around it.  

A) Lose the fans, market the hell out of the product at hand to minimize short-term loses and preserve artistic integrity.
B) Cave to the fans, minimize long-term loses and show some artistic humility. (Any artist can stick to his guns claiming artistic integrity but only good artists are humble enough to admit that they might be wrong).


meh. Patent nonsense.

"Artistic integrity" counts for nothing if the art is, simply put, BAD.

There is crap art.

You cannot just add the label "art" to something and then proceed on the assumption that because it is "art" it is inviolate and, at the same time, good 'by definition'.

Every developer out there has always been presented with the situation that Bioware is currently in: produce good art and the people will applaud you, produce bad art and the people will deride you.

Critics, on the other hand, will say whatever you want them to, so long as you advertise a lot with them.

If you want a good test of this then wait until the next time you go to the toilet: call it "art" and then see if it stills smells and looks the same afterwards.

I bet you it does. ¬_¬



I'm sorry but what? I think you're barking at the wrong tree. Besides, whatever my stance on the whole subject, your post made absolutely no sense. It's worse than the ending of ME3. You're answering something completely unrelated with an incoherent mess that wishes to be an argument. Try harder.

Edit: 

You know what, I'll reply. Art is subjective, what's good for me can be bad for you and vice versa. 


'"Artistic integrity" counts for nothing if the art is, simply put, BAD.' 

Art can't be "simply put, BAD." It can only be so for you. Minorities or majorities account for nothing. Trying to argue that something subjective is objectively good or bad is as stupid as claiming 1+1=3 because I say so and no math book can prove me otherwise. It's simply being narrow-minded, to put it mildly. Furthermore, artistic integrity is not defined in relative terms of the quality of art. 

"Every developer out there has always been presented with the situation that Bioware is currently in: produce good art and the people will applaud you, produce bad art and the people will deride you. "

Uhm, you clearly didn't understand the situation. Hardly any developer has been presented with a situation where you either swallow your pride and change your product after market release or face financial loss. If it only were derision, we wouldn't be in this whole mess. We're not throwing the product back at their faces, we are actively demanding for it to be changed.

If you can't understand that "subtle" difference you have bigger issues. But then again, thanks to your answer, you probably don't undestand.

Modifié par Lugaidster, 23 mars 2012 - 12:08 .


#592
DaftGhosty

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Humble pie. I don't think Moriarty knows how to eat that. I'm happy that the majority of the ME3 community has a major news site finally supporting it. Sad when 90% of the gaming web sites just stick their heads in the sand, or talk down to its readers.

#593
rvgifford

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I am ordering a subscription to their magazine. I love you Forbes.

#594
Solduri

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Skelter192 wrote...

deathscythe517 wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

His name is freaking Moriarty. He was born to be a troll.


Fallout 3 player, by chance?


Sherlock Holmes by any chance?


http://fallout.wikia.../Colin_Moriarty 
http://en.wikipedia....fessor_Moriarty 

Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes first name is James so, he is a fallout fan or his name is just a coincidence

#595
Guest_Opsrbest_*

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Vhalkyrie wrote...

I'm still stunned that Forbes is the main journalistic viewpoint for those unhappy with the ending.

You really expect less from the gaming community? It gives them the vantage of saying WE ARE RIGHT in thread titles.

Never mind that the article in mention uses a quote from two years ago. Clearly static stagnation is the basis of life or at least the main principle in the phallus measuring contest.

#596
Axolotl Shepard

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Get shat on my friend.

#597
Tyrzun

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Erik Kain is a freaking saint to all gamers!

He's called out "false advertising" as not being right or good business.

He's called out the conflict on interest of these review sits like IGN, because their income comes from the publishers of the games they review.

Now he's slapping Colin with his own words to prove the pure hypocrisy,

Erik is a supported of "good business", because good business makes your stock go up. Bioware listing to the fans is always good business.

This whole thing could end up being great for the gaming industry in the end.  No more false advertising, the biased review sites are called out for what they are, and the gamers and game makers relationship gets better.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 12:05 .


#598
Guest_Opsrbest_*

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Tyrzun wrote...

Erik Kain is a freaking saint to all gamers!

He's called out "false advertising" as not being right or good business.

He's called out the conflict on interest of these review sits like IGN, because their income comes from the publishers of the games they review.

Now he's slapping Colin with his own words to prove the pure hypocrisy,

Erik is a supported of "good business", because good business makes your stock go up. Bioware listing to the fans is always good business.

This whole thing could end up being great for the gaming industry in the end.  No more false advertising, the biased review sites are called out for what they are, and the gamers and game makers relationship gets better.



How does it get better? All it does is give credence to the loudest voice. How is that good for anything a game has?

#599
Lugaidster

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Opsrbest wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

Erik Kain is a freaking saint to all gamers!

He's called out "false advertising" as not being right or good business.

He's called out the conflict on interest of these review sits like IGN, because their income comes from the publishers of the games they review.

Now he's slapping Colin with his own words to prove the pure hypocrisy,

Erik is a supported of "good business", because good business makes your stock go up. Bioware listing to the fans is always good business.

This whole thing could end up being great for the gaming industry in the end.  No more false advertising, the biased review sites are called out for what they are, and the gamers and game makers relationship gets better.



How does it get better? All it does is give credence to the loudest voice. How is that good for anything a game has?


So you're saying that what's he's saying is a lie justified only because he wants page hits? Prove me your claims:

-Moriarty IS a hypocrite. This story presents barely anything more than facts. It makes it almost crystal clear.
-IGN does have a conflict of interests (two actually, Chobot is one and advertisement is two)
-His piece on other game critics having conflict of interests is validated by the mess gamespot got into when they fired an editor for being "unreliable" and other stories reporting just that.
-It is good business to support your fans.

Let's see Moriarty's stance on this:

-Fans are whiners (lolwut?)
-ME3 is good (if it is indeed a work of art like he says it is, then it's hardly a fact, merely an opinion)
-Games shouldn't be modified due to fan pressure establishes a precedent (precedent already established if there's such a thing in the first place)

So...?

#600
sistersafetypin

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Kain's name means Hero...