228 réponses à ce sujet

[Lincoln MuaDib]

Let's talk about IGN's reviewers. Did they complete the Game? Really? Did they ALL spend 30+ hours completing ME3, let alone spend 60+ hours playing ME1 and ME2?

Because if they didn't complete the ending, they can't comment on it.
Let me be clear, they can speak with authority about gameplay- but they can't speak with authority about the ending.
A film critic that admitted they didn't stay for the end of a movie-
hell, even a film critic that admits they never watched the first 2
films of a trilogy before reviewing the third- would NEVER have any
credibilty in the Media.

We don't allow film critics to do this- why Game reviwers?

So are we now saying that the opinion of reviewers is more important
than the opinion of thousands of disgruntled ME3 players?

Because a Game Reviewer IS NOT A BETTER EXPERT ON GAMES THAN A PLAYER.

Their JOB is NOT to KNOW MORE about games than Gamers.

Their JOB is to know it FIRST, and give an OPINION as to whether they think the game is worth a purchase.

When we buy, on their recommendation, then get dissatisfied, WE have the right to have an opinion.

Normally, when, say, Film reviewers give a positive review on films that bomb,
thety shrug and say, "Hey, just my opinion, you don't have to agree."

Yet certain sites *coughs* IGN *coughs*

Seem to think that it must be the unhappy ME3ers that are WRONG!


"Oh ho ho, no no! You are wrong, Plebeian!"


After all, if we seek only to placate the majority and ignore the minority, we're kinda setting a dangeroud precedent.

"How many Quarians are there?"
"About 6 million, Shepard."
"And how many Geth?"
"About 60 million, Ma'am."
"Oh, so the Quarians are in the minority? f**k 'em, then. Let 'em die."



I have no disrespect for those that love the endings. I wish you well.

For this reason, I do not want patches that changes the ending, such that the current ending no longer exists.

Let it be DLC.

Let there be CHOICE.

After all, isn't that what Mass Effect is all about?

[Geirahod]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Geirahod wrote...

I'm kinda growing tired that now people call "Art" almost anything...
as a person that does art, I say...some people doesn't have a ****ing idea of what they are talking about...

So you would say writing is not art?

Really, do you really need to ask that?

Literature is art, but in this case it depends because we're not talking about books.

I think there's a very blurry line mixed between art and videogames, in ME3 there's more cinematics than real gameplay anyways. 

note: If  Bioware now considers that their products are art, they should be open to receive criticism, because that's what every artist do when you publish your works to the people.And learn from the critics, there's nothing worse than an artist that ignores the opinions of the people...But in this case, that's not happening....when a majority disagrees with the piece in question, what do you do? do you keep doing what people doesn't like and risk yourself as an artist to be completely ignored and eventually forgotten? or showcased as an example of failure?

Art has its pretty side and its dark and fugly side...

Modifié par Geirahod, 24 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[InvincibleHero]

Geirahod wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Geirahod wrote...

I'm kinda growing tired that now people call "Art" almost anything...
as a person that does art, I say...some people doesn't have a ****ing idea of what they are talking about...

So you would say writing is not art?

Really, do you really need to ask that?

Literature is art, but in this case it depends because we're not talking about books.

I think there's a very blurry line mixed between art and videogames, in ME3 there's more cinematics than real gameplay anyways. 

I thought you were clearly stating ME3 was not art by what you posted. I could be mistaken as it wasn't clear.

[RebelTitan428]

you can't spell ignorance without IGN

[Supersomething]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Supersomething wrote...

I wonder... was there this much squawking of "artistic vision" when consumers informed BioWare that their Mass Effect novel Deception was a complete and utter failure and got them to revise the whole thing?

They are fixing actual lore errors. You know things like facts that everyone can agree are mistakes. They are not rewrting the ending or changing the plot. Objective stuff not subjective things. If they go ahead and clean up other stuff then so be it.

Does it matter? Point in fact is that it is one author's "artistic vision" and people are demanding a change in it.  The same basic principle applies here with the ending in a game that left many with a bitter taste.  Its already been stated abundantly that there are many glaring plot holes with the ending in ME3.  Some people were asking for a rewrite to the ending, but not to the plot of the game near as I can tell, and the majority just wanted the actual closure that was promised with said ending.  You do not end a trilogy with "lots of speculation", especially with a game that has a very strong fanbase.

Modifié par Supersomething, 25 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[Nomen Mendax]

As far as I'm concerned the whole discussion of art is irrelevant. Whether or not a video-game is art depends entirely on your definition of art. So let's just assume that it is art, that in itself is not a reason to change part of it. Commercial artists who are paid to produce art for buildings can expect to be follow the wishes of the client. The endings of movies are changed as a result of focus group testing all the time. It's illogical to suggest that its OK to change the director's artistic vision the month before release but somehow immoral to suggest the same thing the day after release. The big difference is that it might actually be practical to change the ending of a video-game after release but it isn't practical with a movie.

Also, let's assume that I'm incredibly rich (I'm not) and offer Bioware a couple of million dollars of profit to produce an ending that I like - do you really think they are going it down?

Having said all of this, I still don't think that Bioware have any obligation to make a new ending, and if they do it will be because they think they have a solid financial reason for doing so.

[InvincibleHero]

Nomen Mendax wrote...

As far as I'm concerned the whole discussion of art is irrelevant. Whether or not a video-game is art depends entirely on your definition of art. So let's just assume that it is art, that in itself is not a reason to change part of it. Commercial artists who are paid to produce art for buildings can expect to be follow the wishes of the client. The endings of movies are changed as a result of focus group testing all the time. It's illogical to suggest that its OK to change the director's artistic vision the month before release but somehow immoral to suggest the same thing the day after release. The big difference is that it might actually be practical to change the ending of a video-game after release but it isn't practical with a movie.

Also, let's assume that I'm incredibly rich (I'm not) and offer Bioware a couple of million dollars of profit to produce an ending that I like - do you really think they are going it down?

Having said all of this, I still don't think that Bioware have any obligation to make a new ending, and if they do it will be because they think they have a solid financial reason for doing so.

I cannot agree with that. Once art is in a finished state then the creator has seen their artistic vision to fruition. BW set the property up how they wanted and that has to be condiered but people do not care. Would you want someone to tell you what to do with your property? They have millions riding on the franchise and hundreds or thousands of jobs while you are merely dissatisfied with a product.


Again the user /creator compact does not call for any users having any control over story content. Fixing broken features/gameplay is fair. Demanding fixes to the story BW thinks is good or valid is not when based purely on user subjective opinion. Their ownership and creator rights and opinions are >>>>> yours. They can redress how they wish but every way has its negatives and there is no win-win.


I think it is the sign of the times people think they are entitled to 100% satisfaction in anything these days. That is exactly the wrong mindset. People are making unreasonable demands everywhere. There is no reasoning with an angry mob. Everyone has rights/neeeds yet no one gives it a second to think well we should have empathy for the the other guy.


It depends. If you paid them millions for an ending just for you then they'd be fools not to if what you paid gives them profit and does not impinge on their works in progress that might bring them more profit. This is called an opportunity cost. They are the only ones that could assess the viability of it.

[Akaryu]

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

[Eyelidsz]

ME3's ending destroyed all art constructed within ME1, 2, and most of 3.

[InvincibleHero]

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

Yet 75 other reviewers gave ME 3 a 10/10 while IGN the supposed bought off and preferential treatment site gave it a 9.5. Explain that disparity please?

[Rynocerous]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

Yet 75 other reviewers gave ME 3 a 10/10 while IGN the supposed bought off and preferential treatment site gave it a 9.5. Explain that disparity please?

IGN was told "because we put Chobot in the game, make sure your score is not perfect.":(

[MrnDpty161]

I like how your now seeing this whole " be true to art" being spoken so robotic now within the main stream game media. Did they all re-group and then they all chose to follow this sorry excuse in order to change their views to a 10/10 all of a sudden?

Boy its just as bad as Cable/TV news networks.

Ultimate fail. These people care as much about art as they care bout their integrity which is 0. I bet its been 1,000 years since these people even had a conversation concerning art.

[MrnDpty161]

You know how about this ---- Go on and say @#$@#$@$ the fans, cling to your ideas of " Art " and see where it gets you down the road.

[Salis777]

aLucidMind wrote...

BioWare comprimised their own artistic integrity by making ME1 and ME2, and then changing the entire plot of the entire trilogy in the last ten minutes of ME3. They compromised it, we're asking them to fix that. IGN needs to pull their heads out of BioWare's and EA's asses and accept this fact.

Yeah exactly, EA and IGN need to man up to this sh*tshow and start acting like a real business.  If I saw a company in any other industry acting like these two reprobate organizations I cannot _imagine_ the amount of backlash they'd see.    Artist integrity!  Entitled 'fans!'  Please....  Entitled business is more accurate.

With luck this will be another step on the road to the gaming industry acting like every other out there and listening to its customers, instead of hawking unfinished trash and cheap DLC.  And that goes both ways - feel free to charge more for a game, just make sure it's good.  It's amazing they're a $60bn industry and they fail at basic business practice.

[d.nichols]

I wonder if rewriting Colin Moriarty's Infamous 2 statement, in order to make it coherent with Mass Effect and then sending it back would ****** him off. Do you think he'd recognize it?

[InvincibleHero]

Rynocerous wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

Yet 75 other reviewers gave ME 3 a 10/10 while IGN the supposed bought off and preferential treatment site gave it a 9.5. Explain that disparity please?

IGN was told "because we put Chobot in the game, make sure your score is not perfect.":(

Yet if you draw all the conspirarcy/ reviewers bought theory to its conclusion that would mean EA will punish IGN for doing so. They will be shown less favortism in the future. One of those 10/10 sites would have earned more exclusives and such right?

[Salis777]

d.nichols wrote...

I wonder if rewriting Colin Moriarty's Infamous 2 statement, in order to make it coherent with Mass Effect and then sending it back would ****** him off. Do you think he'd recognize it?

F**k him, don't even humour him with your time.

[cakeandbacon]

http://en.wikipedia....at_Expectations

That should settle the argument there. I'm not citing Broken Steel or some recent bit of literature. That's Dickens right there. Frequently cited as one of the greatest authors to have ever written in English. He changed the ending because it was too sad. Not because of plotholes (like we have) or because it completely abandoned all the themes of the story (like ours did), or because it made no sense (which ours definitely did), or gave no closure (see a pattern here?). Just because it was too sad.

So explain to me again how this is bad for art? I don't hear critics ripping Dickens apart because of his decision. The old ending is still out there for people who want to read it.

The Mass Effect series is good enough to survive a change to the ending. I'm fine with a sad or bittersweet ending. Not one that makes no sense and throws everything that's been established so far out the window.

[csmokey]

I cant take anything IGN says seriously especially since one of the characters in Mass Effect 3 is an employee, all the potential characters to have on the Normandy and we get this character

[Faust1979]

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

prove it

[Faust1979]

wastelander75 wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

prove it

Diane Allers/Chobot

can you be more specific? I have no clue what you're talking about

[Salis777]

wastelander75 wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Akaryu wrote...

as if it needed confirmation this just proves that IGN was offered incentives by EA to smile and nod and everything they say.

prove it

Diane Allers/Chobot

This.  Not hard to work it out, I don't think you're trying Faust.