209 réponses à ce sujet

[Vikali]

I don't think attacking the charity is a smooth move. I'm not a member of retake, but I have donated well over $500. The movement actually introduced me to the charity. I would not have known it existed otherwise.

[antony1197]

Rockpopple wrote...

It's just mob mentality at this point. People blindly lashing out in anger and hate. Emphasis on the word "blindly".

I don't like the endings either, but this is ****ing ridiculous.

It's like the DA2 fiasco. I thought that was when the "fandom" showed their true colors, but this puts that nonsense to shame.

People need to re-think of what being "a fan" means. If I was a developer I honestly would just stop listening to what anyone had to say, positive or negative, and just let the chips fall where they may. Nobody gets paid enough to take on this kind of crap.

Its not really at least for me, i mean the people doing threats to the staff are going WAY too far, also its not about art or anything more than what they promised and as a proffesional company they should know better to bring up the point heres just one list of the lies,


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.
BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than 
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650/mass_effect_3_reapers_can_win_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1229983/mass_effect_3_developer_interview_shepard_coop_story_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/casey-hudson-kinect-the-future-of-interactive-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/336331/interviews/mass-effect-3-we-cant-go-on-holiday-our-dlc-is-really-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”

[cachx]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
It's just mob mentality at this point. People blindly lashing out in anger and hate. Emphasis on the word "blindly".
I don't like the endings either, but this is ****ing ridiculous.
It's like the DA2 fiasco. I thought that was when the "fandom" showed their true colors, but this puts that nonsense to shame.
If I was a developer I honestly would just stop listening to what anyone had to say, positive or negative, and just let the chips fall where they may. 

You'd go bankrupt in a flash.
Bioware have a hard on for DLC, and as it stands, i can guarantee you that their DLC sales are going to plummett. 

You know who kept changing their game? the guys that made Hydrophobia, they ended up losing their shirts and the studio went under a few days ago.

And then you read cool things, like this gamasutra article.

[quiksilver723]

gudman wrote...

quiksilver723 wrote...

Then don't expect them to give a damn about you.  You attract more bees with honey than vinegar.

Why would I want to "attract" them when I can just make them listen if I scream loud enough, and I'm backed up with thousands of other people? I repeat, I don't give a damn about how they like me or not. We're paying thir salary. And we can stop doing it if they go too far in lying right in our faces. 

It's obvious you take it personally as if Bioware themselves made a promise to you gudman and they stabbed you in the back.  I'm sorry but your hardline approach isn't what's going to work for you, Ray even said it himself to knock off the attacks.  Constructive dialogue is what's needed here not the scorched earth strategy. 

[gudman]

cachx wrote...

You know who kept changing their game? the guys that made Hydrophobia, they ended up losing their shirts and the studio went under a few days ago.

And then you read cool things, like this gamasutra article.

Taking things to extremes. Mature argument. 

[mxfox408]

Well here's the thing, to end the game on a ****ty note then having a notification pop saying by more dlc is a kick in the quads. I'll say the ending would have been amazing if they allowed you to make actual choices and without the who squadmates crashlanding.

Modifié par mxfox408, 22 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[gudman]

quiksilver723 wrote...

It's obvious you take it personally as if Bioware themselves made a promise to you gudman and they stabbed you in the back.  I'm sorry but your hardline approach isn't what's going to work for you, Ray even said it himself to knock off the attacks.  Constructive dialogue is what's needed here not the scorched earth strategy. 

Are you for real that... stubborn, if you know what I mean? 
I paid for the product as a result of being misinformed, do you understand it? I paid for a product that appeared to be... not so in line with what I was promised during the advertisement campaign. There's nothing personal about it. 

[bmwcrazy]

Sal86 wrote...

To be honest, today, I have seen far more posts complaining about the complaining than *actual* complaint posts.....

+1 Sersiously.

Most people in the movement DO respect Bioware. They just don't support Bioware's decision on the original ending and they simply want the developers to do better by giving them more feedback.

[Grasich]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm sorry, what's getting ridiculous? until they address our concerns with out all the PR spin, hold the line.

This.

Hold the line.

[locsphere]

Some people do lack respect, Some of us at times have let the anger get to the better of us. We come here to speak and hopefully BioWare is seeing what we say. When a majority of people are standing up and saying. Dude... You kinda screwed up. Its because of respect we say such things.

I disagree with your argument. I think your just a troll who tries to say you had our backs at one point and then calls us out. Bottom line here is. Constructive criticism is overly nice criticism. Sometimes you need to hear harsh words to change for the better.

[Vromrig]

It's just mob mentality at this point. People blindly lashing out in anger and hate. Emphasis on the word "blindly".

I don't like the endings either, but this is ****ing ridiculous.

It's like the DA2 fiasco. I thought that was when the "fandom" showed their true colors, but this puts that nonsense to shame.

People need to re-think of what being "a fan" means. If I was a developer I honestly would just stop listening to what anyone had to say, positive or negative, and just let the chips fall where they may. Nobody gets paid enough to take on this kind of crap.

Critique based on length of protest, not size or manner.

[quiksilver723]

gudman wrote...

quiksilver723 wrote...

It's obvious you take it personally as if Bioware themselves made a promise to you gudman and they stabbed you in the back.  I'm sorry but your hardline approach isn't what's going to work for you, Ray even said it himself to knock off the attacks.  Constructive dialogue is what's needed here not the scorched earth strategy. 

Are you for real that... stubborn, if you know what I mean? 
I paid for the product as a result of being misinformed, do you understand it? I paid for a product that appeared to be... not so in line with what I was promised during the advertisement campaign. There's nothing personal about it. 

Sure you paid for a product you weren't happy with.  And you can totally express that in user reviews, forums, videos, etc... But not in the toxic dialogue that I just saw you throw out in the last few posts.  That hurts the movement, that's what our detractors latch on to and point at to prove their point that we're whiny, priveledged brats who will kick and scream till we get our way.  It ain't gonna work.  And if you can be...stubborn in your viewpoint I supposed I can be too.

I'm holding my line.

[Strange Aeons]

This most recent statement is no different than any of the other smiley-face PR boilerplate we've been fed previously.

He never said that the content would add anything to the ending, nor did he acknowledge the real substance of the complaints: that the problems with ending are rooted in the more fundamental issues of interactivity, tone, and internal consistency.

All he acknowledged was a problem of "clarity," a disconnect between the reaction of professional reviewers (who presumably "got it") and the fans (who presumably didn't); and all he offered is that this new content (whatever it is) would "answer questions."

If Bioware really believe their own words, and they're not just cynically playing the damage control game, then they're still completely missing the point.

[Vromrig]

Strange Aeons wrote...

This most recent statement is no different than any of the other smiley-face PR boilerplate we've been fed previously.

He never said that the content would add anything to the ending, nor did he acknowledge the real substance of the complaints: that the problems with ending are rooted in the more fundamental issues of interactivity, tone, and internal consistency.

All he acknowledged was a problem of "clarity," a disconnect between the reaction of professional reviewers (who presumably "got it") and the fans (who presumably didn't); and all he offered is that this new content (whatever it is) would "answer questions."

If Bioware really believe their own words, and they're not just cynically playing the damage control game, then they're still completely missing the point.

If ending resolution seen as "clarity" to current ending, disaster will follow.  Retake Mass Effect movement will lose faith.  Bioware likely to lose customers.  Unfortunate.


Analogy used previously.  If given sandwich, will take bite.  If fecal sandwich, will reject, argue that it is not pleasant to eat.

Clarifying ending akin to rotating sandwich and being told to try again.  Does not alter composition of sandwich.

[johhnytrash]

The ending still sucks.

[Baafee]

To OP: Chill. You are seeing the messages as a whole and forget to consider the people we are.

If you consciously read the messages instead of looking at the number of these, you won't see hate. We are people discussing about the ending, and we are numerous, so it becomes easy to point us out and say no-sense like "you're insulting" without justifying it.

Who, individually, is insulting Bioware? Can you give a source for this assumption?

Modifié par Baafee, 22 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Grasich]

Vromrig wrote...


If ending resolution seen as "clarity" to current ending, disaster will follow.  Retake Mass Effect movement will lose faith.  Bioware likely to lose customers.  Unfortunate.


Analogy used previously.  If given sandwich, will take bite.  If fecal sandwich, will reject, argue that it is not pleasant to eat.

Clarifying ending akin to rotating sandwich and being told to try again.  Does not alter composition of sandwich.

Excellent analogy, Mordin.

[gudman]

quiksilver723 wrote...

Sure you paid for a product you weren't happy with.  And you can totally express that in user reviews, forums, videos, etc... But not in the toxic dialogue that I just saw you throw out in the last few posts.  That hurts the movement, that's what our detractors latch on to and point at to prove their point that we're whiny, priveledged brats who will kick and scream till we get our way.  It ain't gonna work.  And if you can be...stubborn in your viewpoint I supposed I can be too.

I'm holding my line.

NOW we're talking, you've earned my actual respect (not saying I disrespected you). That's what I do, I express my... feelings about the product? How I can. "Toxic" dialogue is not with BioWare, obviously, but with people who are going that far to say things like "well now, I find your movement ridiculous, stop it right now". That's not my way to "win" this, more like casual talks  

[Rockpopple]

Vromrig wrote...

It's just mob mentality at this point. People blindly lashing out in anger and hate. Emphasis on the word "blindly".

I don't like the endings either, but this is ****ing ridiculous.

It's like the DA2 fiasco. I thought that was when the "fandom" showed their true colors, but this puts that nonsense to shame.

People need to re-think of what being "a fan" means. If I was a developer I honestly would just stop listening to what anyone had to say, positive or negative, and just let the chips fall where they may. Nobody gets paid enough to take on this kind of crap.

Critique based on length of protest, not size or manner.

You're dead. 

I saw it. I did it.

I shot your lizard ass in the back.

How are you still here?

[jumpingkaede]

Alamar2078 wrote...

@OP: I'm all for "artisitic vision" and an author telling the story they want to tell.

I believe that  if you took a straw poll of every writer who ever worked on the Mass Effect trilogy and asked them what story THEY wanted to tell and how they wanted it to end, we would not find the ME3 ending at or near the top of the results.

It seems to be the story Walters/Hudson wanted to tell at the end.  But it wasn't the story they had been telling.

An author is free to change his mind, of course, on what his vision is but if he changes it on the very last page, don't be surprised if fans react poorly.

Rowling would have been free to make Harry Potter a grim/shock/thriller.  Very last page: Voldermort and Harry Potter are the same person like Tyler Durden.  That's why you never saw them in the same room together.  And if you did?  Retconned.  Or plot hole.  Then Pottermort burns down Hogwarts and goes to town killing everyone in London.

Artistic vision?  Would probably see her burned at the stake.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 22 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[Aesieru]

Grasich wrote...

Vromrig wrote...


If ending resolution seen as "clarity" to current ending, disaster will follow.  Retake Mass Effect movement will lose faith.  Bioware likely to lose customers.  Unfortunate.


Analogy used previously.  If given sandwich, will take bite.  If fecal sandwich, will reject, argue that it is not pleasant to eat.

Clarifying ending akin to rotating sandwich and being told to try again.  Does not alter composition of sandwich.

Excellent analogy, Mordin.

This made me laugh.

It's more that fecal matter is spread out in random locations but all stringing together throughout the filling of the sandwich. The whole thing isn't poop and it has quality meat somewhere.

[michael99887766]

Dusty Arne wrote...

is getting annoying..

Call me a fanboy, but Bioware is one of few dev's i still deeply respect.


Much of you lack this respect big time. For a Dev to chance their own game is a HUGE accomplisment. I still dont agree on it though. Bioware had this ending in mind, so it belongs to Mass Effect, now we will never know for sure if they had planned this. What they wanted to do later on this year with DLC. With every piece of DLC they will release now i will doubt this is truly a Bioware decision. 
 
I know i will not make friends with this post here, but i wanted to let Bioware know that there are still gamers that deeply respect, and accept their choices in what ever they planned to do in the Mass Effect Galaxy.

Just throwing this out there...


And to Bioware... Wonderfull job on the Mass Effect Trilogy, and remember, whining gamers only want the best for their game.

The problem is that many people don't think the ending was Bioware doing its best, it was Bioware rushing/being rushed by EA. I can see the point that BW has set itself up for a fall by being so good throughout 99.9% of the Mass Effect series, but it was kinda annoying that after all the promises, we got a poor ending.

Casey said "it won't be an a/b/c ending", and it was an a/b/c ending...

[Vikali]

Vromrig wrote...

Strange Aeons wrote...

This most recent statement is no different than any of the other smiley-face PR boilerplate we've been fed previously.

He never said that the content would add anything to the ending, nor did he acknowledge the real substance of the complaints: that the problems with ending are rooted in the more fundamental issues of interactivity, tone, and internal consistency.

All he acknowledged was a problem of "clarity," a disconnect between the reaction of professional reviewers (who presumably "got it") and the fans (who presumably didn't); and all he offered is that this new content (whatever it is) would "answer questions."

If Bioware really believe their own words, and they're not just cynically playing the damage control game, then they're still completely missing the point.

If ending resolution seen as "clarity" to current ending, disaster will follow.  Retake Mass Effect movement will lose faith.  Bioware likely to lose customers.  Unfortunate.


Analogy used previously.  If given sandwich, will take bite.  If fecal sandwich, will reject, argue that it is not pleasant to eat.

Clarifying ending akin to rotating sandwich and being told to try again.  Does not alter composition of sandwich.

I disagree. I think if they can make sense of everything (though the Normandy crash is my biggest beef of anything and don't know how it an be explained) I think it'll do well. For example, I don't need Shepard to live. I don't care if the whole fleet dies, and I;m happy the relays exploded because through descruction, there was born the opportunity for creation. The normandy scene is actually something I really fail to see working, and I thin it was put in there as fanservice to begin with.

In retrospect, let's say they do make everything make sense and include an epilogue for the Shepard lives, or the death, etc, and the distant future while still using these endings. I don't see what there will be to complain about.

The theory community has many theories that actually seem to fit better than the acclaime BSN Indoc theory in my opinion. That is my opinion, of course. But the Krogan have a leader even if Wrex dies: Bakara. The Quarian civilians are already settling when eveything is happening. So they don't worry me. Civilization existed before the relays, and it will continue to after. I think races starving in the sol system and becoming stranded is irrelevant, too. They made their sacrifice by going there, an they may very well die for it but through their sacrifice, so many more will be able to live.

And we don't even know how well studied the dormant relays were. There could be scientists a plenty out there who have information on them. There's too many unknowns to dismiss the 'clarity'.

Modifié par Vikali, 22 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[quiksilver723]

Baafee wrote...

To OP: Chill. You are seeing the messages as a whole and forget to consider the people we are.

If you consciously read the messages instead of looking at the number of these, you won't see hate. We are people discussing about the ending, and we are numerous, so it becomes easy to point us out and say no-sense like "you're insulting" without justifying it.

Who, individually, is insulting Bioware? Can you give a source for this assumption?

It just happened in this thread:

gudman wrote...

I don't get it. So people should just swallow all the lies that BioWare thrown at us during their advertisement. Just because... THEY GAVE YOU THE PRIVILEGE TO PLAYE THEIR MASTERPIECE!

No. BioWare is a developer company. I have bought their product. I am displeased by their false advertisement. Hence I'm angry and am going to HURT them right in their wallets, and I don't give one sole f**k how they feel about it.

Sure they made misleading statements, but I'd consider this an attack of sorts by outright calling them liars and not giving a **** about how they feel.  I just hate this sorta thing.  I just wish it could be toned down a bit.

Modifié par quiksilver723, 22 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[Vromrig]

This made me laugh.

It's more that fecal matter is spread out in random locations but all stringing together throughout the filling of the sandwich. The whole thing isn't poop and it has quality meat somewhere.

Analogy meant only to encompass ending. Conclusion.

Fine dining up to that point.

Disappointing that appetizers were excellent. Entree was fecal sandwich. Would have liked ham.

I disagree. I think if they can make sense of everything (though the Normandy crash is my biggest beef of anything and don't know how it an be explained) I think it'll do well. For example, I don't need Shepard to live. I don't care if the whole fleet dies, and I;m happy the relays exploded because through descruction, there was born the opportunity for creation. The normandy scene is actually something I really fail to see working, and I thin it was put in there as fanservice to begin with. 

Primary issue with ending not focused on unanswered questions, rather introduction of questions, characters, contradicting plot points.

Finale of series, particularly final scene, should use only pre-established characters, plot, threads.

Never introduction of new ideas.  Poor literary choice, obvious flaw.

Would be rejected by editor.

Modifié par Vromrig, 22 mars 2012 - 05:34 .