358 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Merwanor wrote...

I hope it is true, I really do, it will be the best twist in gaming history as it really trick the costumers and it will be remembered for a long time. And Bioware will show me that they still have the right stuff. Because I still can't believe they could come up with endings with so many plot holes.

a long time?  Our childrens children will play these games... They'll ask tell me about Bioware... How they tricked the whole world for over a month...

[Reptilian Rob]

RLesueur wrote...

It's pretty much confirmed by this point that Bioware never intended the indoctrination theory.

Let it go!

This. 

[Erethrian]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

RLesueur wrote...

It's pretty much confirmed by this point that Bioware never intended the indoctrination theory.

Let it go!

This. 

This hasn't been confirmed. They confirmed that the current endings are the endings of the games, and that these endings were planned. All of this is supported by the IT. ;P

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Merwanor wrote...

I
hope it is true, I really do, it will be the best twist in gaming
history as it really trick the costumers and it will be remembered for a
long time. And Bioware will show me that they still have the right
stuff. Because I still can't believe they could come up with endings
with so many plot holes.

a long time?  Our childrens
children will play these games... They'll ask tell me about Bioware...
How they tricked the whole world for over a month...

@Ghost of a Messiah, haha, I loved your post.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 07:49 .

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

RLesueur wrote...

It's pretty much confirmed by this point that Bioware never intended the indoctrination theory.

Let it go!

This. 

They haven't confirmed or denied anything...

[Wynne]

Ashilana wrote...

Would be great... but if they planned it all along they wouldn't have sicked their attack dogs (gaming review sites) on their own fans. Sorry, we are out of luck.

I kinda feel like that... but I don't know. It is the only thing that makes sense and keeps the developers' promises. They've always been so sparing with those promises before. This is the first time I've seen them actually, truly broken rather than just stretched. 

I guess, since 98% of the series was awesome, I can't believe it was really true. But Casey's talk in interviews keeps making me doubt my conviction. Still, I always seem to circle back to, "there's no way it was what it seemed." 

If not indoctrination, the Crucible had to be some kind of test of Shepard's conviction by the makers of the device. I believe Bioware can make mistakes--but not mistakes this huge. It makes even less sense than the ending, the idea that they could've screwed up so royally. There's a difference between being human and going temporarily insane. I have to believe there is some kind of plan here. I just hope it will be fulfilling in the way we all had hoped.

[Reptilian Rob]

Really, really?

After what you just witnessed you're going to believe they are "master craft writers?"

The same people who wrote a fire in the vacuum of space...

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

RLesueur wrote...

It's pretty much confirmed by this point that Bioware never intended the indoctrination theory.

Let it go!

This. 

...you're indoctrinated... listen to yourself...

[Erethrian]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Really, really?

After what you just witnessed you're going to believe they are "master craft writers?"

The same people who wrote a fire in the vacuum of space...

those fires were also in ME1  So, yes. Why not? ^^ Also, please don't try to force us to think your way.  We have our own opinions. We're all fans of ME, so let's wait 'til April for Bioware's announcement.

[Myskal1981]

Ah yes, and then they will be sued to bankruptcy for selling an incomplete product, resulting in a massive fan backlash, severe impact on sales and costs for retailers due to refund processing.

[2Shepards]

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times.

That the fanbase went with a fine toothed comb through every codex, every piece of dialogue, and every scene too make the Indoc theory for Bioware to excuse their crap writing and flimsy plot for the final 10 mins is a compliment to Bioware, not an insult.  It should show them how much we love their games.

Modifié par 2Shepards, 22 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[ShepardTheHopeful]

If anyone thought logically there's a logical explanation to everything that happens in the end beside the strangely popular theory of "A reaper did it"

The Indoctrination Theory bringing the idea of Space Magic to a galaxy near you!

[Reptilian Rob]

Erethrian wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Really, really?

After what you just witnessed you're going to believe they are "master craft writers?"

The same people who wrote a fire in the vacuum of space...

those fires were also in ME1  So, yes. Why not? ^^ Also, please don't try to force us to think your way.  We have our own opinions. We're all fans of ME, so let's wait 'til April for Bioware's announcement.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just pointing out fallacy where I see it.

With all the twenty to thirty lies we were told about the game, and then were delievered a product contrary to what they promised...

My faith is less than stellar right now. 

[Rob_Nix]

If they went the indoc route there should have been a better since of closure or reward after choosing the destroy option instead of a quick scene of Sheperd breathing.

[GeoGirl2008]

KaeserZen wrote...

(Great video about the Indoctrination theory : )

Even with all the official responses from BioWare hinting at no change in the endings, I can't help but think the Indoctrination theory is right and is indeed what BioWare intented.

Even if most of the official statements are extremely cryptic, to me, they scream like a massive "Wait for it !" ("If the fans knew what was planned, they would hold on to their saves" / "We care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it" / "You'll hear more on this in April" / "We want more people to experience the endings").

Because, in every BioWare-produced game I have played, there was an exceptionnally well crafted plot twist or betrayal with a massive impact on the play experience (SPOILERS FROM OTHER GAMES RIGHT BELOW) :
- Knights of the Old Republic : The Player is actually Darth Revan
- Knights of the Old Republic 2 (even though BioWare wasn't the developper) : Darth Traya is using you
- Jade Empire : Your master has actually bred you to be manipulated into serving his dark goals
- SW:TOR : Sith Warrior story (Your master betrays you, even though that was to be expected) / Trooper story (Your squad are double agents) / Jedi Knight story (The kidnapped superweapon scientist is actually a Sith Lord trying to activate it)

Because, I did not see such a massive, story-central plot-twist in Mass Effect 3, and that I would expect it for the Grand Finale and from BioWare.

Because, this just cannot be the way it ends.

Because, they have promised us ealier, and usually BioWare doesn't market what they can't/won't deliver (check SW:TOR's development information releases).

Because, why would they want more player to experience the ending, if it wasn't to prevent them from being spoiled by such a massive plot-twist, if it was already released in the game ?

Because, the Indoctrination theory has too many hints supporting it and makes too much sense within the framework and story of the series to only think of it as a mere coincidence.

Because, the Indoctrination theory is the perfect set-up for the massive plot-twist that would close the game on a firework show of epicness.

Because, revealing the Indoctrination theory through free DLC will be a massive and bold publicity stunt, based on the attention they already have gotten.

Because, they want to continue the franchise, and these ends can't provide that.

Because, BioWare is expert at playing with people's emotions with their video games, and because of everything we have felt so far, Indoctrination theory would be the pinnacle of this, by simply breaking the fourth wall between the gamer and the game.

Because, every other BioWare game is amazing and a masterpiece, and have you already been massively disappointed by the stories, their symbolism and their implementation ?

Because, the Stargazer has "One more story".

___

Because of this all, I have now renewed faith in the company, and think that if this is the way they have planned all along, they will live up to their company name, and will "enter the Pantheon" of major artists based on their impact on society (yes, society. This topic has hit many newspapers and websites, some so far away from the usually closed world of video gaming).

Because of this all, I implore everyone on this forum, and around the Internet, to keep holding the line, this time with Hope, not Anger.

And then, we will know and welcome the truth about Commander Shepard's story.

I agree with you whole heartedly!!!

Other huge plot twist to add to your post:
ME1 = The Citidel is actually a massive realy through which the reapers come and destroy glalctic civilization!!!!!!! That it what hooked me to the franchise, such awesome writing.
ME2 = The collectors attempt to create a human reaper

I was just thinking too... ME3 was released on March 6th. PAX East Pannel is on April 6th.

What an epic twist it would be if they decided that because of spoilers getting out about the endings last year they totally change the end, and attempt to indoctrinate the players!! and then one month later after the majority of the fans had a chance to play through to the end, they release the real ending so no one could spoil it for anyone else!

Real time indoctrination, most people would have been too caught up in the emotion and epicness of the rest of the game to notice what was happening. We are effectivley indoctrinated! Huge twist to ending, and breaking the fourth wall all at the same time!

 It would also explain why they did the launch of the space copies, because they had to know that the people who got them a week early would probably say something about the endings before the majority of people would have had a chance to experience it for themselves. The people at BioWare are the gods of video games!

Modifié par GeoGirl2008, 22 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Really, really?

After what you just witnessed you're going to believe they are "master craft writers?"

The same people who wrote a fire in the vacuum of space...

those fires were also in ME1  So, yes. Why not? ^^ Also, please don't try to force us to think your way.  We have our own opinions. We're all fans of ME, so let's wait 'til April for Bioware's announcement.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just pointing out fallacy where I see it.

With all the twenty to thirty lies we were told about the game, and then were delievered a product contrary to what they promised...

My faith is less than stellar right now. 

I missed the fallacy's you pointed out... The only thing you seem to ever say is equivical to "nuh huh"...

[Erethrian]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Really, really?

After what you just witnessed you're going to believe they are "master craft writers?"

The same people who wrote a fire in the vacuum of space...

those fires were also in ME1  So, yes. Why not? ^^ Also, please don't try to force us to think your way.  We have our own opinions. We're all fans of ME, so let's wait 'til April for Bioware's announcement.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just pointing out fallacy where I see it.

With all the twenty to thirty lies we were told about the game, and then were delievered a product contrary to what they promised...

My faith is less than stellar right now. 

I understand. And I agree about the thing that what they promised is not "exactly" what they gave us. But the fact is they'll say the game is complete because of the "16 endings" (I know, just 3 with different colours, but if you look at the guides, the 3 endings are slightly different depending on the EMS you have -I'm not defending the endings, just saying that it's impossible to win in court against the facts, also if IT is true this will be solved), because of freedom of choice (they say your choices matter through the game, and in the outcome, this can't be denied neither - Again, not defending the endings as they are right now, just saying what they'll/'d say).

Now, was the game complete? Yes (from their and my point of view) Does it denies indoctrination Theory? Not at all. But we still don't know if it's truth so I won't say it's the only "truth", it's just a theory, one I want to believe in.

I know is difficult to think about this, and if IT is true a lot of people will say "How the hell they thought this was the right thing to do?". I agree, they should've made other things if they wanted indoctrination but they also wanted "Lots of Speculation For Everyone", they just didn't expect this outrage from their fans. So the PR talk was inded, needed. And now I just want to think IT is true and that everything will go as they planned all along from April on.

And if IT is not true, if they tell me why they made those endings, what happened and how the hell the wanted us to stay with them, maybe I'll understand them, but they'll have to explain them first.

That said, just wait for PAX, it's my suggestion.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[The Divine Avenger]

Myskal1981 wrote...

Ah yes, and then they will be sued to bankruptcy for selling an incomplete product, resulting in a massive fan backlash, severe impact on sales and costs for retailers due to refund processing.

Not 100% true, there are amny loop holes in the legal system take fallout 3 as an example, Fallout 3 changed it's ending so that the hero doesn't die but instead get's knocked uncontious & spends 2 weeks in a coma in the citadel. They could do the same here expand on the ending with the IT rather than change it completely & they would get round the loop holes in the legal system beause they technicly did'nt sell us an incomplete game, the ending is there just not all of it. 

[OhBeavers]

I love how this forum assumes people have finished every game they have played.

Deus Ex and KoTR endings both spoiled now...

[ShepardTheHopeful]

OhBeavers wrote...

I love how this forum assumes people have finished every game they have played.

Deus Ex and KoTR endings both spoiled now...

If you haven't played KoToR or Deus Ex by now you weren't going to games are like 10+ years old now hell you can't even find them without effort or a torrent.

[Brother Takka]

Am I the only one who can accept the hold thing as a story told by a guy to his son?

[ShepardTheHopeful]

I still think the indoctrination theory is poorly constructed once you start throwing dark horse books into the mix it really shouldn't be considered a good theory. Dark Horse never does anything right.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Brother Takka wrote...

Am I the only one who can accept the hold thing as a story told by a guy to his son?

I'd rather take that than this space magic theory.

[KefkaGestahl]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

Fallout 3 changed it's ending so that the hero doesn't die but instead get's knocked uncontious & spends 2 weeks in a coma in the citadel.

The difference is that Fallout 3's ending was still canon.  You stopped the Enclave and initiated Project Purity, for better or for worse.  The problem with this indoctrination theory is that, if true, it negates the ending entirely.  Say Shepard wakes up - which is only available in one of the three endings and requires you to play multiplayer in order to obtain.  What happens then?  What do people reasonably expect to be the next thing that happens?  The amount of resources that it would take BioWare to continue the story and then put in an entirely new ending is mind-numbing and it wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.  This isn't like Fallout 3 at all.

Modifié par KefkaGestahl, 22 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[Ghost of a Messiah]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

I still think the indoctrination theory is poorly constructed once you start throwing dark horse books into the mix it really shouldn't be considered a good theory. Dark Horse never does anything right.

you discredit the theory because of Dark horse tthen you discredit Dark horse... Very cyclic thinking... You'll have to do better to explain away IT.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

KefkaGestahl wrote...

The Divine Avenger wrote...

Fallout 3 changed it's ending so that the hero doesn't die but instead get's knocked uncontious & spends 2 weeks in a coma in the citadel.

The difference is that Fallout 3's ending was still canon.  You stopped the Enclave and initiated Project Purity, for better or for worse.  The problem with this indoctrination theory is that, if true, it negates the ending entirely.  Say Shepard wakes up - which is only available in one of the three endings and requires you to play multiplayer in order to obtain.  What happens then?  What do people reasonably expect to be the next thing that happens?  The amount of resources that it would take BioWare to continue the story and then put in an entirely new ending is mind-numbing and it wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.  This isn't like Fallout 3 at all.

Who says you wouldn't be able to wake up under the reaper influence and start either convincing your allies the reapers were right all along or just killing them outright?