358 réponses à ce sujet

[The Divine Avenger]

I like the idea of the IT but i'm not holding my breath on the count it might be true I'm on the fence with his theory. I'm not willing to commit to the IT as Bioware hurt me enough with the ending they won't do that 2 me again. that being said I can see how it might be true & I can also see it being the best way to go about fixing the ending's because there are many different way's they could go with it.

[Th3_Kool_Aid_Man]

These are great videos to watch, and give evidence to the IT.

and
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Myskal1981 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Why not? Even more bold to ask a boss like EA for blind faith.

Really, EA? The same EA 90% of the community thinks are money sucking a**holes? Blind faith in what? That this gamble is going to result in more sales? Because exactly the contrary is happening and even if you release a DLC you cannot guarantee that you will ever see the money you are loosing now due to missing sales and refunds.
Do you think that Bioware/EA are the only ones making profit on sold ME3 copies and are the only ones losing money in unsold ME3 copies? The answer is no. You are implying that Bioware either fooled their business partners like Amazon or that all those business partners are participating in the indoctrination theory. That does not sound a bit probable.

Yes, there are hints supporting the indoctrination theory, I will give you that, hints. But you know, each of the hints can be interpreted in a different way. Let's play a bit:

Gun with unlimited ammo:
You say indoc theory.
I say gameplay mechanics and bad writing.

Oily figures:
You say indoc theory.
I say fancy graphics to give a scary vibe.

Torn armor at the end:
You say indoc theory.
I say bad cinematics, similar to seeing the Avenger rifle in cinematics, when noone equips it.

Senseless endings:
You say indoc theory.
I simply say bad writing.

We can play this all night long, none is evidence, only hints that can be interpreted either way.
All boils down to you not wanting to believe that Bioware would screw up so badly and me saying that essentially it is possible.

The difference between the two "theories" (bad writing vs. indoctrination theory) is that in order for indoctrination theory to work you are implying that Bioware intended it that way thus saying that not only Shepard got indoctrinated in game, but we players got indoctrinated outside the game hence in real life.
Problem is that there are no hints in the real world that corroborate indoctrination theory while there are dozens of hints corroborating the bad writing theory.

And in my opinion, real life hints trump game hints any day.

That does not mean that Bioware will not take on the indoctrination theory to "save" the endings. It is possible, but it was not planned all along.

All you say equates perfectly to two words, "Nuh huh". You disprove nothing,,, try researching more... maybe you'l find some solid leads.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

I like the idea of the IT but i'm not holding my breath on the count it might be true I'm on the fence with his theory. I'm not willing to commit to the IT as Bioware hurt me enough with the ending they won't do that 2 me again. that being said I can see how it might be true & I can also see it being the best way to go about fixing the ending's because there are many different way's they could go with it.

Don't be that way... If IT is true then they didn't hurt you at all... But if IT is not true then you will have lost nothing because that mean they have fallen too far to be saved.

[KaeserZen]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Don't be that way... If IT is true then they didn't hurt you at all... But if IT is not true then you will have lost nothing because that mean they have fallen too far to be saved.

Hehe, I didn't expect to see a derivation of Pascal's wager on these forums

[Ghost of a Messiah]

KaeserZen wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Don't be that way... If IT is true then they didn't hurt you at all... But if IT is not true then you will have lost nothing because that mean they have fallen too far to be saved.

Hehe, I didn't expect to see a derivation of Pascal's wager on these forums

I don't know the reference... Care to explaine?

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

KaeserZen wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Don't be that way... If IT is true then they didn't hurt you at all... But if IT is not true then you will have lost nothing because that mean they have fallen too far to be saved.

Hehe, I didn't expect to see a derivation of Pascal's wager on these forums

I don't know the reference... Care to explaine?

NVM found it... good anology... This is my general approch to life and religion... Funny I'd never heard of it before.

[NeecHMonkeY]

Indoc Theory is a fantastic plot twist, sure but it really sucks then that the game doesn't have a proper ending 'out of the box'.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

The philosophy uses the following logic (excerpts from Pensées, part III, note 233):

1. "God is, or He is not"
2. A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
3. According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.
4. You must wager. (It's not optional.)
5. Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.
6. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.

Interesting perspective indeed... Posted for all those interested...

Thank you for this KaeserZen.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Indoc Theory is a fantastic plot twist, sure but it really sucks then that the game doesn't have a proper ending 'out of the box'.

If IT is more than theory then I wouldn't have it any other way. I genuinly like the Idea that I have been tricked.

[NeecHMonkeY]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Indoc Theory is a fantastic plot twist, sure but it really sucks then that the game doesn't have a proper ending 'out of the box'.

If IT is more than theory then I wouldn't have it any other way. I genuinly like the Idea that I have been tricked.

Sure, it's a neat idea and a fantastic marketing tactic... but it also relies on the premise that everyone is connected to the internet (at least their gaming platform).

[Ghost of a Messiah]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Indoc Theory is a fantastic plot twist, sure but it really sucks then that the game doesn't have a proper ending 'out of the box'.

If IT is more than theory then I wouldn't have it any other way. I genuinly like the Idea that I have been tricked.

Sure, it's a neat idea and a fantastic marketing tactic... but it also relies on the premise that everyone is connected to the internet (at least their gaming platform).

That certainly is a flaw in the scope of the scheme... But it is a calculated risk as internet is available so widely.

[magikbbg]

I wanna believe I do. I just don't think bioware EA. Would let the company's image get destroyed this much over a plot twist/mindfㅇㅇㅇ. I thought it was too until someone pointed out to me it's not financially smart. I mean people are returning games. Giving it hoirrble player reviews. I really doubt ur post will play out. And if it does, damn that's great. But I doubt they'd take this much heat and damage to play out some secret ending ar type deal

[magikbbg]

Forgot to add I want to believe you.

[KaeserZen]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

I don't know the reference... Care to explaine?

Pascal's wager is a reasoning by Blaise Pascal, a french scientist of the 17th century (I think it's the 17th, it may be the 18th though) where he said :
"I beleive in god, because if he does and I do not beleive, I will have lost the opportunity of eternal life. If he does and I beleive, I will have won everything. If he doesn't and I beleive, I will have lost nothing."

[Onuris22]

Something makes me think the ending was rushed by EA and Bioware had to push out the product knowing they'd have to do a DLC/patch to flesh out/alter the endings, or it's a PR stunt to get people invested (good or bad.) I'm beginning to think it's one big ballsy story telling stunt, and we'll get what really happened in that DLC. And what a DLC it'll be.

I'm a fan of the indoctrination theory, though I'll have it be said I'm fine with however Bioware is going to go with this. If it's true, and the indoc theory is what they go with, that's cool. If they leave the endings as they are (which, arguably they are almost the same thing down to some very scant differences.) I'm fine with that too....and I'm also ok if they end up changing a lot and giving the people who want a different/more endings what they want. Am I easy to please? Well, I enjoyed ME3 all the way to the end. I can take the endings and make what I want of them, I personally don't feel constrained by Bioware, and as such I can just believe the indoc theory is already the right one.

It's probably been said, but Harbinger showing up and blasting everything, well there's a Reaper sitting there to blast Shep with indoctrination as his mind tries to recover from being so badly wounded. I hope this is the route they go, I like it and I'm looking forward to how they handle the DLC and future games set in the Mass Effect universe Which, if they don't backtrack, means the endings can't actually end like they suggest.

Maybe this post gets ripped apart by those who are angry at the endings, I respect everyone's opinion and don't wish to say what I believe is in any way shape or form superior, but I felt I needed to add my 2 cents, as badly worded as it might be at 4AM.

So, I'm waiting on limping out of the rubble of that beacon, and standing captain morgan style over some dead Reapers.

[XXIceColdXX]

I would agree with the OP. Would be brilliant, and I think Bioware would deserve a few apologies.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

I would agree with the OP. Would be brilliant, and I think Bioware would deserve a few apologies.

I already made a thread called "I'm sorry Bioware" doing just that... In good faith that IT is more then just a theory.

[Razgriz9327]

I wish that it was true, but I can't see it being the case at this point... if they had announced it they would have done it soon after it had completed all its international releases... I could buy that after all the leaks that they had, they decided to use it as a publicity stunt... but the lack of response at this point leads me to abandon hope... if they do it, awesome... but i think the perfect window of opportunity has passed

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Razgriz9327 wrote...

I wish that it was true, but I can't see it being the case at this point... if they had announced it they would have done it soon after it had completed all its international releases... I could buy that after all the leaks that they had, they decided to use it as a publicity stunt... but the lack of response at this point leads me to abandon hope... if they do it, awesome... but i think the perfect window of opportunity has passed

How long ago do you think they knew they'd be at PAX april 6th? If I were them I'd be doing the same thing. Sticking to the plan. Can you imagine what would happen to sales if they went to PAX and said 2 words, "Indoctrination Theory"? Sales would be higher then day one sales. People who returned their game would just feel stupid because they jumped the gun... Then because of everything that has trhanspired they could play the victim on top of all that. It would be the perfect plan.

[AlexMBrennan]

Cheers for spoiling just about all Bioware games, including the current SWTOR.

As for your theory, if you are right then I certainly won't get the DLC and pretend that everybody is happily dead and nothing mattered because that is positively Disney compared to indoctrination BS

Also, V

[Reptilian Rob]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Razgriz9327 wrote...

I wish that it was true, but I can't see it being the case at this point... if they had announced it they would have done it soon after it had completed all its international releases... I could buy that after all the leaks that they had, they decided to use it as a publicity stunt... but the lack of response at this point leads me to abandon hope... if they do it, awesome... but i think the perfect window of opportunity has passed

How long ago do you think they knew they'd be at PAX april 6th? If I were them I'd be doing the same thing. Sticking to the plan. Can you imagine what would happen to sales if they went to PAX and said 2 words, "Indoctrination Theory"? Sales would be higher then day one sales. People who returned their game would just feel stupid because they jumped the gun... Then because of everything that has trhanspired they could play the victim on top of all that. It would be the perfect plan.

While this would be amazing and make me eat my word, publish a complete writing peice on why this was a brilliant move and at the same time make me buy out the entire Bioware store...

I just don't see this happening. 

[Reptilian Rob]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Also, V

Oh, it's you.

Go back to Jimmy Rustling. 

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Razgriz9327 wrote...

I wish that it was true, but I can't see it being the case at this point... if they had announced it they would have done it soon after it had completed all its international releases... I could buy that after all the leaks that they had, they decided to use it as a publicity stunt... but the lack of response at this point leads me to abandon hope... if they do it, awesome... but i think the perfect window of opportunity has passed

How long ago do you think they knew they'd be at PAX april 6th? If I were them I'd be doing the same thing. Sticking to the plan. Can you imagine what would happen to sales if they went to PAX and said 2 words, "Indoctrination Theory"? Sales would be higher then day one sales. People who returned their game would just feel stupid because they jumped the gun... Then because of everything that has trhanspired they could play the victim on top of all that. It would be the perfect plan.

While this would be amazing and make me eat my word, publish a complete writing peice on why this was a brilliant move and at the same time make me buy out the entire Bioware store...

I just don't see this happening. 

May I direct you to something called Pascal's wager... It might explain a better reason to believe.

http://en.wikipedia..../Pascal's_Wager

[Reptilian Rob]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Razgriz9327 wrote...

I wish that it was true, but I can't see it being the case at this point... if they had announced it they would have done it soon after it had completed all its international releases... I could buy that after all the leaks that they had, they decided to use it as a publicity stunt... but the lack of response at this point leads me to abandon hope... if they do it, awesome... but i think the perfect window of opportunity has passed

How long ago do you think they knew they'd be at PAX april 6th? If I were them I'd be doing the same thing. Sticking to the plan. Can you imagine what would happen to sales if they went to PAX and said 2 words, "Indoctrination Theory"? Sales would be higher then day one sales. People who returned their game would just feel stupid because they jumped the gun... Then because of everything that has trhanspired they could play the victim on top of all that. It would be the perfect plan.

While this would be amazing and make me eat my word, publish a complete writing peice on why this was a brilliant move and at the same time make me buy out the entire Bioware store...

I just don't see this happening. 

May I direct you to something called Pascal's wager... It might explain a better reason to believe.

http://en.wikipedia..../Pascal's_Wager

I'm familiar with Pascal, however why would they be silent and let sales drop along with stock and reputation? It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint...

I want to believe...