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Assualt rifles


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#76
Rifneno

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Sevrun wrote...

You wanna knock how I roll why don't you try rolling with me to SEE how I roll first before you want to start a pissy fit.

My
Way
Works
For
Me

Not my fault if you can't figure out how to use my favored weapons, in fact, I couldn't care less if you threw a proper snit and never played again.  There is NOTHING wrong with the Assault Rifles if they are used in the roles they were designed for.


/facepalm.  This isn't about you, you egomaniac.  It's basic math.  There's a reason nobody cares about SMGs and it's not because they were designed with the intention of being awful.  There's also a reason that despite BW's auto-feedback indicating a massive prefence toward the soldier class in ME2 yet it's one of the least popular online in ME3.  Guess what?  It's not because there's an entirely new audience!  People tried their precious ARs and found they weren't up to snuff with snipers and biotics.

#77
Mazandus

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Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.



Try it with an unmodded (ie no dmg barrel) level 1 Revenant.


Your experience will not be nearly as pleasant.



It wouldn't be a problem if we, the players, could choose what we unlock, but we cannot.

#78
Sevrun

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Rifneno wrote...

Sevrun wrote...

You wanna knock how I roll why don't you try rolling with me to SEE how I roll first before you want to start a pissy fit.

My
Way
Works
For
Me

Not my fault if you can't figure out how to use my favored weapons, in fact, I couldn't care less if you threw a proper snit and never played again.  There is NOTHING wrong with the Assault Rifles if they are used in the roles they were designed for.


/facepalm.  This isn't about you, you egomaniac.  It's basic math.  There's a reason nobody cares about SMGs and it's not because they were designed with the intention of being awful.  There's also a reason that despite BW's auto-feedback indicating a massive prefence toward the soldier class in ME2 yet it's one of the least popular online in ME3.  Guess what?  It's not because there's an entirely new audience!  People tried their precious ARs and found they weren't up to snuff with snipers and biotics.


I'm not measuring them against biotics, as not everyone can GET those, but anyone can pick up an AR.  you measure weapons, against weapons, and abilities against abilities.  The soldier's problem has nothing to do with weaponry and everything to do with a meh ability list.  not good, not bad, just... meh.

  As far as you still trying to show your backside, I merely offered my personal experience with the weapons in question and you decided to throw a temper tantrum.  I'm sorry if an opposing view has incensed you, but I find _nothing_ wrong with the Assault Rifles vs. other weaponry.

Now if you'd like to keep throwing your tantrum at me in a way I can respond to, you'll have to use a message or wait an hour as I have to leave now for the _real world_ where I was taught how to actually use weapons instead of just learning them in silly games.

Modifié par Sevrun, 22 mars 2012 - 08:17 .


#79
Blackest_Knight

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Mazandus wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.



Try it with an unmodded (ie no dmg barrel) level 1 Revenant.


Your experience will not be nearly as pleasant.



It wouldn't be a problem if we, the players, could choose what we unlock, but we cannot.


I highly doubt he gets to choose what he unlocks either... though he may get bonus BioWare points to buy Spectre Packs with.

#80
Sevrun

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Mazandus wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.



Try it with an unmodded (ie no dmg barrel) level 1 Revenant.


Your experience will not be nearly as pleasant.



It wouldn't be a problem if we, the players, could choose what we unlock, but we cannot.


I did, and continue to with the Rev II.  No AP no Extended Barrel.  Does just fine.  LOVE that weapon.

#81
Mazandus

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squidney2k1 wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.


Key: high-level Revenant.



precisely. My RNG only likes giving me classes I've already unlocked. Fun times.

#82
SinerAthin

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They need to either:

A) Introduce suppression (and increased damage vs units immune to suppression)

or

B) Increase Assault Rifle damage.

How can a pistol do more damage than a RIFLE?!


Assault Rifles should weigh more than a pistol but do a LOT more damage as well, and have the ability to switch between fire: 1 shot, 3 shot or full auto.

That way you can take marksman fire on the enemies at a distance, and burst them down in close range.


Assault Rifles are NOT pea-shooters! Just because they fire faster doesn't make their individual shots any less deadly!

Modifié par SinerAthin, 22 mars 2012 - 08:20 .


#83
Foxtrot813

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This thread's making me want a Revenant. I had it in the demo, but I was distracted with the Carnifex.

#84
Mazandus

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Sevrun wrote...

Mazandus wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.



Try it with an unmodded (ie no dmg barrel) level 1 Revenant.


Your experience will not be nearly as pleasant.



It wouldn't be a problem if we, the players, could choose what we unlock, but we cannot.


I did, and continue to with the Rev II.  No AP no Extended Barrel.  Does just fine.  LOVE that weapon.



Ok, what platform are you on? I'm on PS3. If you are on PS3 I'll play a match with you tonight, I'd love to see this. I'll also use my Turian with level 1 Revenant. On Gold. Lets see how far we get.

#85
Exodus2000

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I just aim for head :| Avenger X FTW!! wish those packs would upgrade my mag mod above lvl 1.....

#86
HTTP 404

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each to their own I guess. I love my avenger.  fully upgraded I get nearly 200 percent cooldowns. I shoot enemies to finish them off after blasting them with powers.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 22 mars 2012 - 08:30 .


#87
Mazandus

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HTTP 404 wrote...

each to their own I guess. I love my avenger



Mine is stuck at level 3!

I went on a spree of recruitment pack buying just to get the Avenger ranked up and all I got was Katana's and human soldier/vanguard cards.

#88
RinpocheSchnozberry

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I like a good Revenant modded up on my Krogan. I open up with that thing on clumps of 2-3 enemies and I can guarantee one will go down, and the other two will be hopping, taking damage, trying to evade, and therefor not shooting. My teammates can pick them of much easier that way. Also good to spray at an enemy in cover while a buddy flanks them.

#89
Mazandus

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Blackest_Knight wrote...

Mazandus wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I've primarily been either a sniper or shotgun user since game launched, but last night I took a Turian Soldier, maxxed Marksman, with a high level modded Revenant. Using Marksman (and even not using it) I'm pretty sure I was tearing enemies apart with it. My only complaint was the turian himself, not being able to roll or sidestep quickly etc meant I took a lot of hits, and the hits I did take seemed to hurt a ton.  This was on Silver.



Try it with an unmodded (ie no dmg barrel) level 1 Revenant.


Your experience will not be nearly as pleasant.



It wouldn't be a problem if we, the players, could choose what we unlock, but we cannot.


I highly doubt he gets to choose what he unlocks either... though he may get bonus BioWare points to buy Spectre Packs with.



Its EA. I'm pretty sure they can "unlock" whatever the hell they want. Or do you think its just "luck"  when the day something like FIFA or Madden UT come out and you come up against some dream team of every allstar on the planet?


And, if he was serious about playtesting, I'm sure there's an internal build they can load up or something to that effect.

#90
Koshiir

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I successfully play Gold with my Engineer and use the Avenger X with ammo mod V and stability mod V.

I know I could probably do more damage with another non-full-auto gun, but they all require more aim, more mouse-clicking and therefore more concentration. If I use a fully automatic AR, I can just hold down the button and focus my attention on a) casting Incinerate/Overload as fast as possible and B) moving from cover to cover.

In the demo I used the Mattock and after a few rounds my fingers hurt from clicking...

#91
Torguemada

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Rifneno wrote...
There's also a reason that despite BW's auto-feedback indicating a massive prefence toward the soldier class in ME2 yet it's one of the least popular online in ME3. 

If by one of the least popular, you mean most popular then your right.

#92
Viscereality

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Avenger is nice because it weighs basically nothing, all the other AR's cost too much power recharge for very little benefit, Turian and Krogan exempt because Stability, Marksman and Rage play nice with Assault rifles.
I'll have to agree with the sentiment that assault rifles are slightly flawed because you need to mag dump multiple times into an enemy to kill one, who basically isnt even flinching under the hail of gunfire hes receiving.
Also Revenant on anyone else is pure comedy, I've never seen such incredible recoil and shot deviance.

#93
DiLune

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RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I like a good Revenant modded up on my Krogan. I open up with that thing on clumps of 2-3 enemies and I can guarantee one will go down, and the other two will be hopping, taking damage, trying to evade, and therefor not shooting. My teammates can pick them of much easier that way. Also good to spray at an enemy in cover while a buddy flanks them.


Just want to say, this is what drives me nuts. While I am suppressing an enemy so they can be flanked, the killer gets the points and I get none, even though I'm trying to play with some strategy. Same when I use my Quarrian Engi and freeze opponents. I locked them down and got no assist when someone else kills them.

#94
Mazandus

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Just look at Sabresandiego's list in the other thread. The only automatic's above "mediocre" are the Hornet (a gold smg, which fires in 3 round bursts), the Hurricane (An N7 smg) and the Revenant (with the caveat that it be used by Turians.) Literally everything in the top tier is a sniper rifle or a pistol.


Something is seriously flawed there.

#95
Pyrceval78

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DiLune wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I like a good Revenant modded up on my Krogan. I open up with that thing on clumps of 2-3 enemies and I can guarantee one will go down, and the other two will be hopping, taking damage, trying to evade, and therefor not shooting. My teammates can pick them of much easier that way. Also good to spray at an enemy in cover while a buddy flanks them.


Just want to say, this is what drives me nuts. While I am suppressing an enemy so they can be flanked, the killer gets the points and I get none, even though I'm trying to play with some strategy. Same when I use my Quarrian Engi and freeze opponents. I locked them down and got no assist when someone else kills them.


Everyone gets same experience points, regardless. 

#96
Mazandus

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You might get exp but you are left out of the gratification of seeing "Kill +X" on your screen. And, as much as epeen flexing is a flawed measurement, score is still kept, and everyone looks at it.

And believe me, if you score 30-40k and the other 3 score 60-70k, you are absolutely getting booted from the lobby on gold.

The autos suffer from manifold problems in this game. The higher the difficulty level, the more powerful the enemies. You cannot remain in the open for long without being torn to pieces. The snipers and pistols offer much higher alpha strike damage and more penetration. Considering the abundance of energy drain, overload, and biotic explosions, the importance and "strength" of autos vs shields is wholly negated.


When you cannot even kill a husk or assault trooper without reloading an automatic, something is terribly wrong with the weapon design.

And this is what bothers me so much. This stuff is not hard to fix.It just requires some effort in playing with all the various classes with all the various guns, something you'd think they would have done, being a AAA maker of AAA games with huge budgets which they retail at full price on store shelves. The easiest thing in the world is to modify some numbers on their toolset, and it would have, by far the biggest impact on our play.

I know I've made a ton of posts about this today, I just want to be clear, its not like I'm some automatic weapon worshiper. I just want a game that rewards the player for putting in the effort to think about how it works. You know, this word called "depth" that I see thrown around all the time. I don't see any depth here, at all. The depth is how deep you are willing to plunge your bank account in search of one of the top tier snipers.

#97
Bon3zz1001

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Sevrun wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

KestrelM1 wrote...

I don't understand all the Assault Rifle hate. I absolutely love the Avenger on my Turian Sentinel. With tech Armor I don't mind popping out of cover to empty an entire clip.

I think they're useful if you handle them properly.

Because Shotguns, Sniper Rifles and Heavy Pistols do the same job better and faster? There's no reason to use an AR or an SMG in this game unless you want to bring your team down.


Then you've never played with me.  Decent match will put me near the top with 55-65K score (often enough to be the top)  And that's with an Engi using the Avenger X or a Krogan soldier using the Revenant I.  I actually do less well with the weapons you describe as being the only viable weapons available. without bringing my team down with snide arrogance, but thank you for your input.

See that's my point though. Sure, I COULD use an assault rifle and pull that or I could use a Sniper / Shotgun / Heavy Pistol and pull 90k+ a match instead. I think the second one is a bit more efficient.

#98
t6skyart

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Tangster wrote...

Airmanator wrote...

Grodash wrote...

I love my Mattock.

I love my Saber.

Same.<3


I do not play any class that doesn't work well with the sabre.

#99
Sevrun

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Bon3zz1001 wrote...

Sevrun wrote...

Bon3zz1001 wrote...

KestrelM1 wrote...

I don't understand all the Assault Rifle hate. I absolutely love the Avenger on my Turian Sentinel. With tech Armor I don't mind popping out of cover to empty an entire clip.

I think they're useful if you handle them properly.

Because Shotguns, Sniper Rifles and Heavy Pistols do the same job better and faster? There's no reason to use an AR or an SMG in this game unless you want to bring your team down.


Then you've never played with me.  Decent match will put me near the top with 55-65K score (often enough to be the top)  And that's with an Engi using the Avenger X or a Krogan soldier using the Revenant I.  I actually do less well with the weapons you describe as being the only viable weapons available. without bringing my team down with snide arrogance, but thank you for your input.

See that's my point though. Sure, I COULD use an assault rifle and pull that or I could use a Sniper / Shotgun / Heavy Pistol and pull 90k+ a match instead. I think the second one is a bit more efficient.


I'm very happy for you if you can pull down numbers like that.  I've personally never seen it, but that doesn't make it impossible.  The weapon I use doesn't matter with the Engi as I spend most of that time using powers.  65k is about the best I do regardless of how I play.  And yes I realize my admission of this fact is going to be used for instant dismissal of everything I've said thus far as I'm not uber-l33t enough

#100
JaimasOfRaxis

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Power-to-size ratio is just the tip of the iceberg; over half the rifles and almost all of the SMG in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer are 100% useless due to a combination of recoil, poor individual round damage, and poor effectiveness against most conventional targets.

The Saber/Paladin/Carnifex drum's been beaten quite a bit, but it bears repeating; there's nothing that the Sabre does that the Carnifex or Paladin, given a scope, doesn't do better for a fraction of the weight except sustainability - which, given our old friend the Clip Pack, isn't even that huge a downside, even if you're a complete yahoo who doesn't attempt resupplies during combat.

Hell, even the Viper has better conventional performance than the Saber, and I say that as a man who seriously likes him some Soldier class. The Saber just is not worth it, which is a damned shame for a weapon that's N7 rank.

With the exception of the Mattock, Revenant, and pre-nerf Falcon, the bulk of the rifles just aren't effective. Hell, the Revenant is a really iffy gun in and of itself; it kicks far too hard and its DPS far too fluctuating on any class that isn't a Turian - which is completely and utterly ridiculous. One might think that a professionally-trained Alliance soldier or a Krogan could handle that recoil without their aim attempting to emulate Parkinson's Disease, but you would be wrong.

The SMGs are even worse offenders than the rifles, being somehow LESS accurate when aimed.

I don't know who came up with this game's weapon damage and accuracy algorithms, but they're a mess. I've taken my Geth Pulse Rifle into matches and come out alive, but if it's taking me a clip or so of ammo to drop a single Silver Geth Trooper when I'm mostly scoring headshots, then I think it's safe to say that something is wrong.

To put it differently, I propose some simple logic puzzles:


1. Why would you take a weapon like the Tempest, Hurricane, Locust, or Shuriken, for example, when I can get better performance out of a decent-quality Heavy Pistol or a Shotgun, and they have a longer effective range as part of the bargain?  The only thing the Tempest has over them is weight via Ultralight Materials - which is not enough to make it a favorable choice over a pistol or shotgun.

2. Why would you take a heavy weapon like the Saber or Revenant - a heavy weapon that fires single long-range slugs, and a heavy weapon with a high fire rate that is functionally only viable on one class - over weapons which accomplish much the same purpose for less weight? The Saber is simply not as efficient, effective, or damaging as the Viper Sniper Rifle, let alone a pimped-out Carnifex. The Revenant lays down a lot of firepower, but can really only be used effectively by one class; and even then, its spray is so wild that players may as well go for more efficient, accurate weapons with more reliable killing potential (I.E. the Mattock).

3. Why would anyone ever use a weapon like the Incisor, when everything it does is handled better by guns a fraction of its weight? The Raptor offers better damage and accuracy; the Viper offers better damage per-shot and better range; a quality heavy pistol with scope and barrel extension can flat-out out-perform it in every single catagory.

Unless these guns are made more viable, they simply won't be used, and the game will continue to revolve around Sniper Weapons, Pistols, and a few errant shotguns.

As an interesting aside, anyone with an N7 Eagle can get a glimpse of what a not-complete-fail automatic weapon is like. Seriously, that little bastard puts more effective DPS downrange than half of the Assault Rifle stable.