228 réponses à ce sujet

[SinerAthin]

I played a silver match on my Engineer with a Tempest VII, with Heat and Barrel mod. (no equipment used)

On the plus side, it has limitless ammo so you can fire 24/7, and drops any enemy that comes close pretty quickly. Also managed to snipe some cannibals across the map.


Unfortunately, it's a weapon that lacks an AP mod, and I feel it wasn't quite as effective as my Phalanx II versus armored enemies.


I was playing Engineer with 200% recharge rate so it was hard to notice a difference.


I believe that by buffing SMG's damage a little more and give them a natural bonus versus armor would make them more viable.

Perhaps they could even make the SMG scope mod alter the SMG's firing rate by 1 shot per click when zoomed in, but in turn, vastly improve the damage of each single shot.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 23 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[Felhand]

I use a Avenger X and Shuriken IV on my quarian engineer, specced to lighten SMGs I can carry those and still maintain 194% power cooldown allowing me to spray liberal amounts of bullets while blanketing enemies in fire, ice and all things not so nice.

On a turian I dominate speced for weapon stability and using a Vindicator, with cover the bullet 'climb' is minimal allowing turians to put a LOT of bullets into a small zone very fast.

NOTE: the previous statements are based off SILVER experience, not gold.

[GroverA125]

SinerAthin wrote...

I played a silver match on my Engineer with a Tempest VII, with Heat and Barrel mod. (no equipment used)

On the plus side, it has limitless ammo so you can fire 24/7, and drops any enemy that comes close pretty quickly. Also managed to snipe some cannibals across the map.


Unfortunately, it's a weapon that lacks an AP mod, and I feel it wasn't quite as effective as my Phalanx II versus armored enemies.


I was playing Engineer with 200% recharge rate so it was hard to notice a difference.

I used the Hurricane, it performs very well, actually.

What people seem to forget is that they compare level 1 weapons to level 10 weapons. As a level 1 weapon, the hurricane is rather bad, but once it gets up the levels, the issues are counterbalanced by the improved firepower and slight weight lessening. Most slow-rate weapons just start out really strong, and that makes people immediately like them. Once you go down the road to level 5-10, however, the issues with assault rifles and SMGs begin to disappear. The mattock is fair game for a level 10 predator at level 1 in most areas, and at level 10, that thing has sufficient firepower to last.

Way I see it: all automatic weapons start off slow, then a hell of a lot of momentum in the later levels, where the damage increase really plays in. Single-shot weapons don't see too much of this minute increase per level, since it'll only take 2-3 shots anyway, automatics shave a lot more time off at the final levels. Look at the avenger, it's a useless weapon from level 1, but at the high levels, it's suprisingly effective. Revenant is weak to begin with, but once you drop the kill-speed, the power really begins to show.

Only issue with automatics and most ARs is armor, which can wear down the lower damage weapons of the group (looking at you, Hurricane) and make them seem a fair bit less effective. But I'd still take my Mattock or my Avenger over my Mantis X or Carnifex III anyday, even though I do have all the good mods for them.

[RiflemanUK]

Would be great if you could actually level up the Hurricane.

[MartialArtsSurfer]

Mazandus wrote...

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

http://social.biowar...2648/1#10321708 --official dev post by Eric Fagnan on how armor/weapons work & why low-damage per bullet weapons like SMGs & AR's suck

unlike ME2, weapons have no damage bonus vs. shields nor armor

instead, armor subtracts a flat amount FROM EACH bullet (ie, a mob has 20 pts of armor means 20 pts of damage is subtracted from each bullet, with a mininum of 1 pt of damage being done).

Thus, a Geth Pulse Rifle or SMG that does only 20-30 pts of damge will do only 1 to 10 points of damage per bullet on a mob with the typical 20 pts of armor

--yet Carnifex is 276-345, Phalanx is 97-114 each bullet & most Snipers can do 500-1,000+ each
bullet & so a 20
pt reduction is tiny for them.
.

Based real life science/physics, AR's should do at least twice the damage of pistols due to their longer barrel & higher caliber (9 mm pistol rounds) whereas higher caliber (7.62 mm or .45 caliber) should do more.

the most powerful round is the .50 caliber used in sniper rifles
next is the 7.62 mm AR
then 5.5 & 5.56 mm AR

strongest pistol rounds are .50 & .44 & .45 caliber used in Eagles & Magnums
most SMG & pistol rounds use only 9 mm though

official dev post:
"The penetration mods and Armor Piercing Ammo have another mechanic called 'piercing' which affects the
damage done to armored targets.

By default, enemies with the yellow
armor bar will chop off a set amount of damage done to them from
weapons. This makes low damage weapons less effective against armor and
high damage weapons very effective against them

. So even if a weapon has
a really fast fire rate but each bullet does a low amount of damage it
will get penalized for hitting armor since a big chunk of every bullet's
damage is ignored.

When equipping penetration mods and using Armor
Piercing Ammo, the weapon's "armor piercing" goes up, which means a lot
less damage is cut off. For example, equipping rank 1 Armor Piercing
Ammo will reduce the amount of damage that armor cuts off by 50%. By
default, weapons do not have any base armor "piercing."

Armor can never negate weapon damage completely. There is a minimum damage value that weapons will always do to armor."

This kind of stuff always leaves me scratching my head. Because, on one hand, they went and tried to create a whole system to support their combat. On the other hand, the clung to some juvenile association of fast firing = weak per shot, ignoring all advances in firearm technology in the last oh, 100 years.(you know, things like barrel affecting accuracy, actual cartridge size determining size and power of the round. the impossibility of firing a rifle sized round in a pistol.) 

I know this isn't a modern day shooter. I know that heavy pistols are supposed to be "hand cannons." That just leaves me wondering why on earth Bioware decided to have full auto guns in the 1st place. Like I kept writing yesterday, if I was some Turian General there's no ****ing way in hell I'd hand out Avengers and Phaeston's and Tempests to my men.

But this is what happens when all the kids who played wizards and thieves in AD&D 2.0 try to make a combat system. They decide that hand guns should rule, as in star wars and star trek. Which is fine if your hand guns are shooting phaser rays and bolts of energy, but falls apart when you are firing solid projectiles.

Belieive me, no military on earth would bother buying AR's or SMG's if they could create a hand gun that fired a comparable sized round as accurately and quickly as AR's do while actually being light enough to carry around.

The ****ing 50 cal rifle that every game designer in the US is in love with weighs over 30lbs. Try running around with that thing raised to a shooting position and see how amazingly well you perform.

Bioware made some silly choices. Defend them, make fun of me, whatever, but they made some ****ing silly choices.

ya, by default, AR rifles with their longer barrels should already have the 'extended barrel' & 'heavier/thicker caliber' mods on them compared to SMGs & pistols yet most ARs do less than damage than pistols -- real life physics tests of ammo & guns alll show that ARs have more stopping power/force/damage than pistol rounds

Even bigger guns in the ME universe should be able to create bigger mass effect fields & acceleration coils since they carry bigger/longer coils & bigger mass effect field generators

At the mininum, each big heavy AR bullet should do at least as much damage as a phalanx

[Rifneno]

Tangster wrote...

I still don't think the vast majority of the AR class are crap enough to warrant a buff. The GPR yes. The Phaeston, maybe.
The reason why the I consider the SMG class to be worthless, but not the AR class is because the AR's at least hit their target the majority of the time. SMG's rarely hit the target with more than 1/3 of the burst, and the one SMG that does have reasonable accuracy appears to fire marhsmallows.

If you don't think it's acceptable, then fine. That's your perrogative, I'm simply saying that I'm just as happy with the AR class as it is now as I would likely be if the AR class was to be improved.

No, that's math's perrogative.  All the "ARs are okay" arguments seem to revolve around "I think they're fine".  No actual argument is made for why.  I'm assuming because there isn't one.  They suck against armor (save for the saber, which is a lolacaust rare scopeless sniper rifle in the AR category), and armor is what nearly all the really dangerous enemies have.  The ninja phantom is the only one anyone considers scary that doesn't require you to chew through a ton of armor for.  Can an AR handle a bunch of husks?  Yeah of course, but they're no danger anyway.  Let the casters with AoE deal with them.  The times when you need to bring the pain right now, it's going to be bringing it against armor 80% of the time.

[xtorma]

The m-99 is beasty

[Rifneno]

xtorma wrote...

The m-99 is beasty

And by "beasty" you mean jawdroppingly, soulcrushingly, mindblowingly rare right?
But seriously yeah, it's the only N7 AR.  It should be so awesome that newbies assume you're hacking when they see it in use.  Like the Raptor, it's kind of a hybrid of an assault rifle and a sniper rifle in the way it handles.  Which is why it's got some great stopping power.  But even then... compare it to the paladin.  They're a lot closer than they should be.

[Adoxographist]

I use Asari vanguard with avenger x. Sure the avenger is weak compared to other guns but it does its job and weighs nothing if you upgrade power

[screamin_jesus]

I absolutely love my turian sentinel + mattock X. 200% recharge and a really solid AR with decent damage.

Modifié par screamin_jesus, 01 avril 2012 - 12:22 .

[Iyev]

Is sad, but the AR´s aren´t good in gold or plainum if you don´t have the weapon level, and even then, the pistols (YEAH!!.. the pistols) do a better job (Even the eagle is better SMG or AR in automatic mode xDDDD), for the soldiers i give up, i´m using shotguns, the only 3 AR´s (Excluding the Mattock) who can works in gold or platinum are the n7 typhon, reverant and finally the geth spitfire, but for use that weapons you need lvl 7 or more in everyone and even then, that weapons can be used only for 2 or 3 soldier class correctly. Is really sad but the developers did´t know how to do the job in the balance of the weapons.

[Lucky]

Dat necro.

[MajorStupidity]

rlucht wrote...

Dat necro.

[Really Sad Panther]

MajorStupidity wrote...

rlucht wrote...

Dat necro.

Good grief.
Couldn't find anything newer?

[BridgeBurner]

Obviously OP never had a typhoon...

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Iyev wrote...

Is sad, but the AR´s aren´t good in gold or plainum if you don´t have the weapon level, and even then, the pistols (YEAH!!.. the pistols) do a better job (Even the eagle is better SMG or AR in automatic mode xDDDD), for the soldiers i give up, i´m using shotguns, the only 3 AR´s (Excluding the Mattock) who can works in gold or platinum are the n7 typhon, reverant and finally the geth spitfire, but for use that weapons you need lvl 7 or more in everyone and even then, that weapons can be used only for 2 or 3 soldier class correctly. Is really sad but the developers did´t know how to do the job in the balance of the weapons.

Every AR is Gold-viable, it just depends on who is using them. As for Platinum, the majority of ARs that will be effective for 90% of the playerbase are Ultra-Rare (Harrier, Lancer, PPR, Saber, etc.)

Modifié par FatherOfPearl, 11 novembre 2013 - 02:49 .

[Kinom001]

Iyev wrote...

Is sad, but the AR´s aren´t good in gold or plainum if you don´t have the weapon level, and even then, the pistols (YEAH!!.. the pistols) do a better job (Even the eagle is better SMG or AR in automatic mode xDDDD), for the soldiers i give up, i´m using shotguns, the only 3 AR´s (Excluding the Mattock) who can works in gold or platinum are the n7 typhon, reverant and finally the geth spitfire, but for use that weapons you need lvl 7 or more in everyone and even then, that weapons can be used only for 2 or 3 soldier class correctly. Is really sad but the developers did´t know how to do the job in the balance of the weapons.

Wow. Now that's a necro. A necro of Necro's, if you will.

As for working in Gold or Platinum, any of the rares or ultra-rares work fine. As pithy as this may sound, and I don't mean to be, they become especially viable when they hit lvl 8. Expecting a lvl 1-5 to be partcularly Platinum viable is expecting a little much, imo.

[Iyev]

Sorry for the necro, i don´t now if is the browser or somthing, but i can´t see the date of the post, i only see if this have a new comment or not D:

Back to the topic, the rare weapons works fine (Typhon, valkyrie, and in some cases the geth plsfire.. don`t ask me for the saber because i don´t have it ;_ but still there, are better the shotguns or pistols for soldiers, if you dont have that weapons in a decent lvl xd

Ok, is all for now, and again, sorry for the necro thread xDDD

[Deathsaurer]

Lol @ the Typhoon Revenant and Spitfire being the only usable AR.

[Koenig888]

With the TGI, all ARs are Gold viable.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Koenig888 wrote...

With the TGI, all ARs are Gold viable.

All ARs are Gold viable on any class. The difference is that they aren't as effective as they could be, unless you were to put them on something like the GI or TGI.

Modifié par FatherOfPearl, 11 novembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[capn233]

Annomander wrote...

Obviously OP never had a typhoon...

Probably not since this thread predates the Harrier.

[BridgeBurner]

capn233 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Obviously OP never had a typhoon...

Probably not since this thread predates the Harrier.

What we can learn from this is that Bioware listens to its fans.

[capn233]

Annomander wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Obviously OP never had a typhoon...

Probably not since this thread predates the Harrier.

What we can learn from this is that Bioware listens to its fans.

Yeah, sometimes to the detriment of the product.

[Kinom001]

Iyev wrote...

Sorry for the necro, i don´t now if is the browser or somthing, but i can´t see the date of the post, i only see if this have a new comment or not D:

Back to the topic, the rare weapons works fine (Typhon, valkyrie, and in some cases the geth plsfire.. don`t ask me for the saber because i don´t have it ;_ but still there, are better the shotguns or pistols for soldiers, if you dont have that weapons in a decent lvl xd

Ok, is all for now, and again, sorry for the necro thread xDDD

No worries about the necro. At least you honestly kept it on the original subject and it's interesting to see these threads a year or more later. A lots changed in that time.

And you're right about the shotguns. Straight out of the box they're typically the better option at lower levels, particularly if you're wanting to play Gold. Throw on a Shocktrooper gear bonus and you're grenade kits are good to go.