150 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

Viyu wrote...

I added a few things to the OP. Perhaps if there was DLC, what they could do is make more missions to boost readiness points so that you could reach a threshold that the original game couldn't provide in order to overcome indoctrination and get other endings. Also, I want to know why the reapers didn't make somebody else choose the fate of the galaxy? If it was as simple as red/green/blue... perhaps I forgot something, but the collectors took thousands of people. I don't see why they couldn't have just chosen someone they kidnapped to meet the starchild and force a choice upon humanity regardless of Shepherd's efforts during ME2.

It's a bit worse than that.  SuperKid tells you that synthesis is THE pinnacle to be hoped for.  All you have to do is choose that outcome (and for some arbitrary reason it means you just HAVE to die!) and the Reapers are no longer a threat, organics and synthetics are co-equal and best friends forever, etc.  When you choose that option, you die and a SIGNAL is sent through the relays turning everyone, organic and synthetic alike, into the pinnacle of evolution: synthesis. 

So...all it takes is a signal eh?  Why doesn't starkid JUST SEND THE FRICKIN' SIGNAL WAY BACK WHEN AND SKIP THE DESTRUCTION!?  Sheesh.  The little **** just wanted to cause mayhem, I guess.  It's the 'terrible twos' I tell ya.  

[RighteousNixon]

Thank god! It doesn't seem set in stone yet but this is the best news I have heard yet. IMO, new endings would have been a terrible idea.

Modifié par RighteousNixon, 22 mars 2012 - 06:42 .

[kalle90]

Getorex wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

^^@Getorex
Explanations to those: Everything that happens after the laser is just illusion and lies. Possibly a prophecy of sorts.

I
did like those parts in Arkham Asylum or Fable or Fear or Alan Wake,
but it means there must be big DLC coming. Something that actually gives
the real ending after that mindgame. Unfortunately it makes no sense in
the big picture: releasing a game without the real ending, leaving
people without online out dry, possibly asking money...

That
is a pretty bad mindf*ck.  To try and get away with, "We need to kill
you so someone else wont" should have brought Shepard out of any funk
immediately. 

"Wha...WHAT?!  I KNOW I didn't hear that correctly so please say that again."

"We need to kill you so you wont get killed by other...killers".

"OK OK, very funny.  Ash?  You behind this?  Ha-ha, nice one.  Come on out now.  Ash?  Liara?  Garrus?  C'mon and cut it out!"

"No no, we're serious.  We need to kill you so..."

"I HEARD you the first and second time....just...stop, joke's over!  ASH!  C'MON!  Enough's enough!  Har-har-har!"

Yes,
well the first time I did think he was an idiot. He is reasoning that
it's better for humans to be melted into paste and built into big robots
so our genes, souls or something can live on, because the humanmade
robots won't preserve us.

I can see why
a computer would insist it's better to "archive" us rather than to let
us vanish. Of course to me as a human it makes 0 sense, "we don't want
to be preserved when we're dead", but I do understand why he says so.
Reapers have protocols to harvest people and that kid has protocols to collect
and preserve DNA.

Next thing that came to my mind was "Where is the door that allows me to keep the cycle spinning?". That could have been cool option assuming I wasn't able to unite the races and thought that the there will be a galaxywide war that can only be stopped by allowing Reapers to stop the chaos.

So yeah IMO it comes down to
1. Either starkid is a AI who is tied by his ancient programming so he has flaws
2. Indoctrination theory and kid is just avatar of the big H.
I wouldn't say the ending as it is, is completely doomed. It just needs flesh around it.

Modifié par kalle90, 22 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[DeinonSlayer]

We already have a pretty solid idea how things are destined to turn out. That's why a lot of us have added our voices to the dissent. The ending is a disaster, viewed from any angle. Describing it in full, grisly detail doesn't resolve anything. I'm still waiting to hear there will be more options, because this simply won't cut it. The community would seem to agree.

[Dracotyr]

i would be happy if they would add one good happy ending that explained all the plot holes. they dont have to get rid of the endings that are already there they can leave those for the people who have lost all hope in life and like having there hopes and dreams smashed on a daily basis. just add that one happy ending for those of us that still have hope. i dont care how they do it just make it happy, feel in the plot holes and give us actual closure.

[kalle90]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We already have a pretty solid idea how things are destined to turn out. That's why a lot of us have added our voices to the dissent. The ending is a disaster, viewed from any angle. Describing it in full, grisly detail doesn't resolve anything. I'm still waiting to hear there will be more options, because this simply won't cut it. The community would seem to agree.

Now that would have been nice epilogue... Except now I don't even want that DA:Origins style summary. Well atleast 2 people survived, I guess that's the "We fight for those left standing"

Victory

[Getorex]

kalle90 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We already have a pretty solid idea how things are destined to turn out. That's why a lot of us have added our voices to the dissent. The ending is a disaster, viewed from any angle. Describing it in full, grisly detail doesn't resolve anything. I'm still waiting to hear there will be more options, because this simply won't cut it. The community would seem to agree.

Now that would have been nice epilogue... Except now I don't even want that DA:Origins style summary. Well atleast 2 people survived, I guess that's the "We fight for those left standing"

Victory

Who survived to be left standing?  Be specific.

[Nikitn]

bazzag wrote...

Viyu wrote...

I think the problem is that people ignore the fact that Bioware was considering making an indoctrination sequence. So if they go through with indoctrination..that is, pretty much lean towards their own idea, it will look like they were just caving into the fans instead.

They only cut the indoctrination because they were struggling to make it work with the game mechanics. I think what ultimately happened is that when that was cut, the ending suffered, and became a bit of this and a bit of that, nothing concrete. If they were to follow the ending up with indoc, they could just say that they were reverting back to one of their original ideas, and were going to try and do it in a different way so that it would work

Nobody planned an indoctrination ending as it would've been corporate suicide. The bad PR would be simply too much.

Can you conspiracy-theorists get this into your heads?

[Random citizen]

They do not need to remove anything, just add stuff, including clarifications and new ways to solve the ending that is determined by what your Shepard has accomplished in the game.

Here is an exellent suggestion made by Subject M, who I personally know and actually works with helping others patching up their storries besides being a free-form rpg developer and writer:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/1


This would give them the option to reuse much of their cinematics. The rest of the cut-scenes can be in-engine.

[XiaShou]

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

[Getorex]

XiaShou wrote...

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

Like Fallout 3 was left untouched.  Oh, wait...it was actually IMPROVED by changing and adding.  Ooops.

Or in literature, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle CHANGED his Sherlock Holmes story to please the reading public who didn't like his original.  We know how THAT has turned out...another ooops.

Leonardo DaVinci created some painting, probably "art" before he did the Mona Lisa.  Then he painted OVER it and created the Mona Lisa.  He created something presumably BETTER.  Yet another OOOOOPS.

[DeinonSlayer]

Getorex wrote...

XiaShou wrote...

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

Like Fallout 3 was left untouched.  Oh, wait...it was actually IMPROVED by changing and adding.  Ooops.

Or in literature, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle CHANGED his Sherlock Holmes story to please the reading public who didn't like his original.  We know how THAT has turned out...another ooops.

Leonardo DaVinci created some painting, probably "art" before he did the Mona Lisa.  Then he painted OVER it and created the Mona Lisa.  He created something presumably BETTER.  Yet another OOOOOPS.

I fail to see what's so "artistic" about the implied mass starvation and discord in the ending we have now. Is this really worth protecting, Bioware? More to the point, is this worth losing customers over?

[Random citizen]

XiaShou wrote...

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

Improving your own work in response to feedback is never totally wrong, as long as both sides ends up as satisfied with the result. Of course the descions are ultimatly the made by those in charge over the "art work" or product, but it seemed they just forgot much of the player or "ME-fan" perspective when designing the ending.

[kalle90]

Getorex wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We already have a pretty solid idea how things are destined to turn out. That's why a lot of us have added our voices to the dissent. The ending is a disaster, viewed from any angle. Describing it in full, grisly detail doesn't resolve anything. I'm still waiting to hear there will be more options, because this simply won't cut it. The community would seem to agree.

Now that would have been nice epilogue... Except now I don't even want that DA:Origins style summary. Well atleast 2 people survived, I guess that's the "We fight for those left standing"

Victory

Who survived to be left standing?  Be specific.

Say what? I mean the people after credits. Either they have really short memory or they survived for decades. Reminds me of that flash game in which you must cure a disease but you really can't. Which funnily had much more touching and question raising ending.

[AlanC9]

kalle90 wrote...
Next thing that came to my mind was "Where is the door that allows me to keep the cycle spinning?". That could have been cool option assuming I wasn't able to unite the races and thought that the there will be a galaxywide war that can only be stopped by allowing Reapers to stop the chaos.

You can do that, I think. If you refuse to choose any option the Reapers destroy the Catalyst and the cycle continues.

[AlanC9]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
I fail to see what's so "artistic" about the implied mass starvation and discord in the ending we have now. Is this really worth protecting, Bioware? More to the point, is this worth losing customers over?

It worked for me in The Fall of Hyperion. Actually, that book's ending was worse than ME3, since the Hegemony worlds relied on farcasters for trade in a way that ME worlds don't. (Anyone else think that book inspired ME3's ending?)

Anyway, mass starvation would be unlikely except for worlds in regions where there are no garden planets at all. If anything, the galaxy probably has food surpluses since the Reapers attacked population centers and left rural areas alone. Economic chaos, though? Sure.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[kalle90]

AlanC9 wrote...

kalle90 wrote...
Next thing that came to my mind was "Where is the door that allows me to keep the cycle spinning?". That could have been cool option assuming I wasn't able to unite the races and thought that the there will be a galaxywide war that can only be stopped by allowing Reapers to stop the chaos.

You can do that, I think. If you refuse to choose any option the Reapers destroy the Catalyst and the cycle continues.

Refuse = Take too much time deciding
+ Which only results in "Critical failure" style screen as opposed to actual one.

Failing the suicide mission is also a proper ending for the trilogy in a way, as is any random death causing Shepard not to succeed. But they just don't feel like actual options when all you get is "Load game" and don't see actual conclusion how Reapers reap everything. It's like asking me to turn off the game because that's a viable ending for the game.

[Getorex]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Getorex wrote...

XiaShou wrote...

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

Like Fallout 3 was left untouched.  Oh, wait...it was actually IMPROVED by changing and adding.  Ooops.

Or in literature, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle CHANGED his Sherlock Holmes story to please the reading public who didn't like his original.  We know how THAT has turned out...another ooops.

Leonardo DaVinci created some painting, probably "art" before he did the Mona Lisa.  Then he painted OVER it and created the Mona Lisa.  He created something presumably BETTER.  Yet another OOOOOPS.

I fail to see what's so "artistic" about the implied mass starvation and discord in the ending we have now. Is this really worth protecting, Bioware? More to the point, is this worth losing customers over?

Oh fear not intrepid TRUE fan.  I agree that it is not "arty" at all.  I was addressing that all to the people who STILL insist it is "art" and "artistic integrity MUST be respected".  

Objective reality isn't even on their side.

[Texansamurai]

I dont think they can address the questions is the problem... They seem to illogical

[Getorex]

kalle90 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We already have a pretty solid idea how things are destined to turn out. That's why a lot of us have added our voices to the dissent. The ending is a disaster, viewed from any angle. Describing it in full, grisly detail doesn't resolve anything. I'm still waiting to hear there will be more options, because this simply won't cut it. The community would seem to agree.

Now that would have been nice epilogue... Except now I don't even want that DA:Origins style summary. Well atleast 2 people survived, I guess that's the "We fight for those left standing"

Victory

Who survived to be left standing?  Be specific.

Say what? I mean the people after credits. Either they have really short memory or they survived for decades. Reminds me of that flash game in which you must cure a disease but you really can't. Which funnily had much more touching and question raising ending.

Ah...thank you.  I was HOPING you'd mention them.  See, I have something for you to ponder.  The crew of the Normandy crashed on that planet that is shown after the credits.  That stargazer dude and the kid.  The Normandy does NOT have enough people onboard to create a new civilization.  Simply, objective laws of biology say that after just a few generation, ALL people on that planet would be brother and sister.  Do you SEE a problem here?  EVERYONE is either brother or sister.  

Wait, there's more!

I have an observation that, to the best of my knowledge, no one else
has put forward. It is yet another dashing of hope that Bioware claims
their disjointed and hopelessly broken and illogical ending provides.

Let's
turn our attention to stargazer at the very very ass end of the ending.
There's the DEEPLY inbred stargazer telling Shepard stories to his
even more deeply inbred...grandson? Whatever, after a certain level of
inbreeding does it really matter anymore? Anywho...there's stargazer
with the freak kid. Kid asks stargazer "what will I find if I ever go
out in space?" Stargazer goes on about how many stars and planets there
are, how there may be (I would like to emphasize the word "MAY")
different civilizations on these worlds, etc.

Wait a minute!
Hold the phone! Who got out of the crashed Normandy?! I'd SWEAR I saw
ALIENS. I saw a Garrus, at least. Some saw Liara. Perhaps others saw
Tali. All of them are ALIENS. Why the hell did the kid need to ask
"what will I find" when they already KNOW what they'd find? Turians,
Quarians, Asari at the very least because they were with the original
crew! But wait! The kid is asking! THAT means that, as per logic, the
planet is clearly not compatible with Turian or Quarian so Garrus and
Tali died VERY shortly after the crash landing. HAPPY ENDING! There's
some hope! OK, well, Liara should have then been fine, surely? If the
planet is compatible with humans, it must be compatible with Asari AND
Liara was the ONLY species in the whole batch who could mate with
ANYONE. There SHOULD be Asari girls running around all over the place
in stargazer's time! But there aren't because the kid had to ask and
stargazer had to say their MIGHT be all kinds of other civilizations out
there. Get the drift?

The crew of the Normandy crashed, the
aliens on the crew are all LONG dead and gone (Garrus and Tali were
screwed from day one anyway because they were solo...no one to mate
with...AND the planet couldn't be compatible with BOTH human/Asari and
Turian/Quarian. Just can't.). Apparently Liara didn't fare well either
(she CAN live thousands of years remember AND mate with anyone).

Too bad, so sad. No hope on planet Incest to be found.

The end MUST be completely FIXED. There is no "hope" in it at all.

[Atakuma]

Getorex wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Getorex wrote...

XiaShou wrote...

the thing is if they really alter the endings, many ppl would see that as a predecent bla bla, and companies aswell as reviewers etc dont want they "immortality" touched.

Like Fallout 3 was left untouched.  Oh, wait...it was actually IMPROVED by changing and adding.  Ooops.

Or in literature, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle CHANGED his Sherlock Holmes story to please the reading public who didn't like his original.  We know how THAT has turned out...another ooops.

Leonardo DaVinci created some painting, probably "art" before he did the Mona Lisa.  Then he painted OVER it and created the Mona Lisa.  He created something presumably BETTER.  Yet another OOOOOPS.

I fail to see what's so "artistic" about the implied mass starvation and discord in the ending we have now. Is this really worth protecting, Bioware? More to the point, is this worth losing customers over?

Oh fear not intrepid TRUE fan.  I agree that it is not "arty" at all.  I was addressing that all to the people who STILL insist it is "art" and "artistic integrity MUST be respected".  

Objective reality isn't even on their side.

Objective reality doesn't even apply here, this is a completely subjective matter.

[Viyu]

Nikitn wrote...

bazzag wrote...

Viyu wrote...

I think the problem is that people ignore the fact that Bioware was considering making an indoctrination sequence. So if they go through with indoctrination..that is, pretty much lean towards their own idea, it will look like they were just caving into the fans instead.

They only cut the indoctrination because they were struggling to make it work with the game mechanics. I think what ultimately happened is that when that was cut, the ending suffered, and became a bit of this and a bit of that, nothing concrete. If they were to follow the ending up with indoc, they could just say that they were reverting back to one of their original ideas, and were going to try and do it in a different way so that it would work

Nobody planned an indoctrination ending as it would've been corporate suicide. The bad PR would be simply too much.

Can you conspiracy-theorists get this into your heads?

From what I recall, they said that Shepherd would get indoctrinated at around the end of the game, but they didn't say that the game would end with indoctrination. Perhaps THAT would've been corporate suicide if it were. But for all we know, they could've added more endings for fighting indoctrination or succumbing to it.

[Sorileus]

If not done right this could get ugly all over again, if left with the A, B & C choices, that will ultimately result in more anger from the fan base. I know I didn't like being told it wasn't going to be that way, but then got to the end an Bam! A, B & C....

[sdm83]

clarification is good enough. I don't expect Bioware to completely change the endings.

[Viyu]

Nah, me neither. I think if its DLC and we HAVE to pay for it, that's going to be a bit lame if all we get are a few cutscenes or walls of text. I think we should just keep the endings and just add more options. The problem with this game was that we were promised more than just "A,B,C" options as Hudson puts it. Even if the endings were clarified, the options are still very minimal, which still isn't what we were promised.