150 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

Viyu wrote...

Nah, me neither. I think if its DLC and we HAVE to pay for it, that's going to be a bit lame if all we get are a few cutscenes or walls of text. I think we should just keep the endings and just add more options. The problem with this game was that we were promised more than just "A,B,C" options as Hudson puts it. Even if the endings were clarified, the options are still very minimal, which still isn't what we were promised.

Well it is worse than "very minimal".  They make no sense.  They are illogical.  They are self-contradictory.  There is no fleshing out to do about that.  You cannot make illogic become logic by saying it in a different way...or simply repeating it.  Unlike as in politics, repetition doesn't make something become true.  

[Oldbones2]

Actually, at the very least the Sol system is going to starve. As will any world the Reapers hit particularity hard.

Thessia, Palaven, Irune, Dekunna, are not going to have enough technology base or arable land to support large amounts of life for THOUSANDS of years, if they ever can again.

In fact the ecosystems will probably degrade greatly in quality since, the Reapers didn't really care if a planet or two was destroyed.

Modifié par Oldbones2, 22 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Viyu]

Getorex wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Nah, me neither. I think if its DLC and we HAVE to pay for it, that's going to be a bit lame if all we get are a few cutscenes or walls of text. I think we should just keep the endings and just add more options. The problem with this game was that we were promised more than just "A,B,C" options as Hudson puts it. Even if the endings were clarified, the options are still very minimal, which still isn't what we were promised.

Well it is worse than "very minimal".  They make no sense.  They are illogical.  They are self-contradictory.  There is no fleshing out to do about that.  You cannot make illogic become logic by saying it in a different way...or simply repeating it.  Unlike as in politics, repetition doesn't make something become true.  

What I guess a lot of people are saying, and to a degree what I'm saying is that if it were a dream sequence, and your mind is manipulated, it would make sense that things don't add up. However the effects that "dream sequence" should have should be in real-time, so that the people who wanted these endings don't feel cheated. But like with Morinth, should you resist the dream sequence more logical ending outcomes can be explored.

[Random citizen]

sdm83 wrote...

clarification is good enough. I don't expect Bioware to completely change the endings.

As long as the clarification does not offer an ending that reflects Shepard's journey, choices and achievements, it does not address one of the fundamental problems of the ending.

Modifié par Random citizen, 22 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[Sorileus]

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

[Random citizen]

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

[Sorileus]

Random citizen wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

Agreed most ppl were expecting that, and with the said 16 supposed endings we were promised before release, I think that would have made for a more dynamic ending that actually reflected our actions from previous games.

[DeinonSlayer]

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

That's why I keep referring people to the solution described in the poll in my signature. We don't need to scrap the three current options. Just give us the option to refuse them, and let the outcome be decided in an honest fight. We know Reapers can be killed conventionally - we've done it several times, and Shepard isn't exactly toting ship-grade weaponry. The cost to the fleet would be horrific, but if we built up the fleet enough, we win. We keep the relays, bury our dead and go home. That alone gives you branching outcomes. Does the Normandy survive the fight? Does Shepard bleed out before help arrives? What state is the galaxy left in afterwards? If you didn't build up enough, the Reapers win, Shepard bleeds out, and the cycle continues. It would be easy for Bioware to implement. It sounds like plenty of people try to do this anyway, only to find the game doesn't accomodate them. There are ways out of this, if only Bioware is willing to listen.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 22 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[Sorileus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

That's why I keep referring people to the solution described in the poll in my signature. We don't need to scrap the three current options. Just give us the option to refuse them, and let the outcome be decided in an honest fight. We know Reapers can be killed conventionally - we've done it several times, and Shepard isn't exactly toting ship-grade weaponry. The cost to the fleet would be horrific, but if we built up the fleet enough, we win. We keep the relays, bury our dead and go home. That alone gives you branching outcomes. Does the Normandy survive the fight? Does Shepard bleed out before help arrives? What state is the galaxy left in afterwards? If you didn't build up enough, the Reapers win, Shepard bleeds out, and the cycle continues. It would be easy for Bioware to implement. It sounds like plenty of people try to do this anyway, only to find the game doesn't accomodate them. There are ways out of this, if only Bioware is willing to listen.

For some reason I have a feeling that we wont like what were be getting in April, if that's when its due, call it a gut feeling lols.

[Nepp]

Sorileus wrote...

For some reason I have a feeling that we wont like what were be getting in April, if that's when its due, call it a gut feeling lols.

Same here.

It'll probably be a DLC with characters from Final Fantasy, and Tidus appears to be the catalyst and explains the endings as its jenova destroying planets or something similar and idiotic.

[Sorileus]

Nepp wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

For some reason I have a feeling that we wont like what were be getting in April, if that's when its due, call it a gut feeling lols.

Same here.

It'll probably be a DLC with characters from Final Fantasy, and Tidus appears to be the catalyst and explains the endings as its jenova destroying planets or something similar and idiotic.

LMFAO...about wraps that up in a nut shell lol...lets hope were totally wrong and they blow our socks off  <_<.

[kalle90]

Random citizen wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

Well I'd say Shepard planning out the assault suicide mission style could have been bit too much and too illogical. I'd be satisfied with something like "Koris lived, which resulted in this segment of Quarian fleet surviving, including Veetor", "Turian fleet was big enough to cover Krogan's which resulted in Krogan having 60% higher survival rate" and so on. Still, that's beating a dead horse. Could've would've should've.

On top of that there were many, many more options I could have imagined:
- Your forces failing before even reaching Earth
- Your forces are so small Shepard can cower and say that Normandy should just flee and find some quiet habitable planet where the team can atleast spend rest of their lives in peace, be it days or decades.
- Being unable to unite the forces and deciding letting the cycle finish is best way to prevent further chaos
- Telling the kid to scram with his choices (unless it's indoctrination) and fighting to the last man
- Bargaining a deal something like a certain number of people are allowed to be moved to Citadel where they are under surveillance. They won't build robots, they won't space travel, only a small segment of survivors are allowed and the others are doomed to die. They're like convicts, but alive.
- The dream sequences could hint to some sort of Matrix-Stasis deal. You're stuck in imaginary world with other people, safe from Reapers atleast.

All of those are grim in one way or another. But this is also beating a dead horse. I can't believe we would get patched ending with more options.

So the only hope is the ID Theory that we haven't seen the real ending yet and it's going to be released as DLC. Atleast this is probably plausible technically but otherwise it would unleash hell: changing and charging for ending, people without online... And the possibility that the ending is even worse.
- If you beat indoctrination with R door you wake up... don't know how to make it grim
- If you're indoctrinated you join Reapers unable to resist. You fight humans and aliens until there's a Saren-like confontration in which you either kill your squadmates or commit suicide which somehow results in Reaper's defeat.

[JulienJaden]

Makeshift answers don't make the ending any better. It is objectively bad writing.
I may not be the best writer, but even I can come up with something better that makes more sense.

[Sharn01]

I will wait and see, though I doubt much of what was done could ever be explained.

[Random citizen]

kalle90 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

Well I'd say Shepard planning out the assault suicide mission style could have been bit too much and too illogical. I'd be satisfied with something like "Koris lived, which resulted in this segment of Quarian fleet surviving, including Veetor", "Turian fleet was big enough to cover Krogan's which resulted in Krogan having 60% higher survival rate" and so on. Still, that's beating a dead horse. Could've would've should've.

On top of that there were many, many more options I could have imagined:
- Your forces failing before even reaching Earth
- Your forces are so small Shepard can cower and say that Normandy should just flee and find some quiet habitable planet where the team can atleast spend rest of their lives in peace, be it days or decades.
- Being unable to unite the forces and deciding letting the cycle finish is best way to prevent further chaos
- Telling the kid to scram with his choices (unless it's indoctrination) and fighting to the last man
- Bargaining a deal something like a certain number of people are allowed to be moved to Citadel where they are under surveillance. They won't build robots, they won't space travel, only a small segment of survivors are allowed and the others are doomed to die. They're like convicts, but alive.
- The dream sequences could hint to some sort of Matrix-Stasis deal. You're stuck in imaginary world with other people, safe from Reapers atleast.

All of those are grim in one way or another. But this is also beating a dead horse. I can't believe we would get patched ending with more options.

So the only hope is the ID Theory that we haven't seen the real ending yet and it's going to be released as DLC. Atleast this is probably plausible technically but otherwise it would unleash hell: changing and charging for ending, people without online... And the possibility that the ending is even worse.
- If you beat indoctrination with R door you wake up... don't know how to make it grim
- If you're indoctrinated you join Reapers unable to resist. You fight humans and aliens until there's a Saren-like confontration in which you either kill your squadmates or commit suicide which somehow results in Reaper's defeat.

I was not suggesting Shepard planing the whole assult, just that, you know, different things happen depending on how prepared to are and that you and your team survives if you do good.

Subject M made an exellent thread on the topic of the endgame: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/1

Modifié par Random citizen, 22 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Sharn01 wrote...

I will wait and see, though I doubt much of what was done could ever be explained.

Discuss! <_<

[xXDarkNewDayxXx]

Random citizen wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

YES! So much. I just played the Collector base mission again earlier, and was blown away by how much I liked it. So solid. The story blended together so well in such a fantastic, gripping climax. I've beat ME2 more times than I should probably admit, and it's still so exceptional it gets me wired up every time. Bioware has PROVEN that they can deliver these kind of intense, self referential stories. WTF HAPPENED IN ME3? It almost feels like a bad dream....or like some awful prank. How can a company that's good at something stop being good at something so quickly? It doesn't make sense.

[xsdob]

You can't have both because one makes the other redundant.

[RiouHotaru]

Clarification is entirely possible. Give us a mission where you go into detail about the race that made the Catalyst, without telling us what the Catalyst is (to prevent spoilers).

Do a DLC about the Normandy crew being rescued from the planet they're stranded on.

Any of that would suffice.

[Solmanian]

When will people give up on the indoctrinated theory? It's a realy stupid theory, with all respect. It hinges on the assumption that bioware deliberately released a partial, so they could release the actual ending as payed dlc. That's just paranoid.

[Getorex]

Solmanian wrote...

When will people give up on the indoctrinated theory? It's a realy stupid theory, with all respect. It hinges on the assumption that bioware deliberately released a partial, so they could release the actual ending as payed dlc. That's just paranoid.

I agree but...it is a useful theory (now defunct by cold fact) that can easily be wrangled into a way to fix the ending without having to alter it much, if at all.  THAT is its only real value now - as an alternative way to use the current ending and then seamlessly correct it with new content to get past it. 

So, in that respect I can see it has utility. 

The ending either gets a complete do-over OR you leverage the idea of indoctrinaton and make the current ending work as is and add ending material afterward.  

Modifié par Getorex, 22 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[DeinonSlayer]

xsdob wrote...

You can't have both because one makes the other redundant.

Not if we're given the option to refuse those three options. That lends itself to all kinds of other outcomes. See the link in my sig.

[Subject M]

Random citizen wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

Sorileus wrote...

I'd prefer and ending similar to ME2 where your choices actually had an effect on the outcome of who lived etc etc, ME3 should of been the same way, sure there would be casualties *Its a War!* an I can understand that, but to make our actions/choices from previous games entirely pointless, is lazy to say the least, I was expecting what I had done from ME1 to ME3 to mean something in the end...

As Angry Joe pointed out, I think most of us having a problem with the ending expected a "ME2 suicide mission" but on a galactic scale. Or something similar following the proud tradition of Bioware games.

Well I'd say Shepard planning out the assault suicide mission style could have been bit too much and too illogical. I'd be satisfied with something like "Koris lived, which resulted in this segment of Quarian fleet surviving, including Veetor", "Turian fleet was big enough to cover Krogan's which resulted in Krogan having 60% higher survival rate" and so on. Still, that's beating a dead horse. Could've would've should've.

On top of that there were many, many more options I could have imagined:
- Your forces failing before even reaching Earth
- Your forces are so small Shepard can cower and say that Normandy should just flee and find some quiet habitable planet where the team can atleast spend rest of their lives in peace, be it days or decades.
- Being unable to unite the forces and deciding letting the cycle finish is best way to prevent further chaos
- Telling the kid to scram with his choices (unless it's indoctrination) and fighting to the last man
- Bargaining a deal something like a certain number of people are allowed to be moved to Citadel where they are under surveillance. They won't build robots, they won't space travel, only a small segment of survivors are allowed and the others are doomed to die. They're like convicts, but alive.
- The dream sequences could hint to some sort of Matrix-Stasis deal. You're stuck in imaginary world with other people, safe from Reapers atleast.

All of those are grim in one way or another. But this is also beating a dead horse. I can't believe we would get patched ending with more options.

So the only hope is the ID Theory that we haven't seen the real ending yet and it's going to be released as DLC. Atleast this is probably plausible technically but otherwise it would unleash hell: changing and charging for ending, people without online... And the possibility that the ending is even worse.
- If you beat indoctrination with R door you wake up... don't know how to make it grim
- If you're indoctrinated you join Reapers unable to resist. You fight humans and aliens until there's a Saren-like confontration in which you either kill your squadmates or commit suicide which somehow results in Reaper's defeat.

I was not suggesting Shepard planing the whole assult, just that, you know, different things happen depending on how prepared to are and that you and your team survives if you do good.

Subject M made an exellent thread on the topic of the endgame: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/1

flatterer.

[Risselda]

I will be happy with an explanation of what exactly happened at the end. After I know what happened, then I will judge the ending.

The current endings leave way too much in question- so technically the ending is as good as your imagination.

[ReiCow]

OP, as I believe in the Indoctrination Theory, I would like them to simply take what we have and append to the final breath scene (after choosing destroy w/ max war assets). Have us take over Shepard at that point and continue on to taking down the reapers. Then have an ending with closure and highly dependant upon a lot of the choices we made throughout the series.

Moo.