135 réponses à ce sujet

[SpideyKnight]

Anaki86 wrote...

I enjoyed the endings. I will also enjoy any ending DLC that Bioware will produce.

That isn't reasoning.  That's blind aherance, zealotry even, and that's a bad thing.

[wileydsp]

MongoChuck wrote...

I doubt that most people have actually played the game twice. So judging the game from one single gameplay is like an American police officer shooting at sight.

I don't really follow you here.  I've played one playthrough, and am on my renegade femshep run through.  I still found the ending I chose in that playthrough fitting for me.  It's also very easy to re-expereince the end since you are put right back at the point of no return.  I may have only one full run on the belt, but I did go through the last part 3 times. 

And if you are holding a gun, I have no problem with an officer shooting on sight. 

[Startyde]

If the movie "The Dark Knight" ended with some kid waking up in a hospital bed, and saying "Wow, these drugs made me have funny dreams. Heh, a man dressed as a bat. Silly." and then they fly out the window on a Unicorn before credits, you'd have two kinds of people:

1. Batman fans in total rage
2. Casual fans who don't understand why you don't love unicorns.

Neither opinion is really wrong, but for the casual fans, nothing annoys Batman fans more then coming to Batman forums and telling Batman fans they should be happy with what they were given.

[wileydsp]

SpideyKnight wrote...

Anaki86 wrote...

I enjoyed the endings. I will also enjoy any ending DLC that Bioware will produce.

That isn't reasoning.  That's blind aherance, zealotry even, and that's a bad thing.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this post.  He didn't elaborate on his feelings concerning the end, and then he did make a blanket statement.  But, I don't think you can say that's blind aderance, or anything else.  If he enjoyed the ending, and enjoys the universe/game then why is looking forward to the future DLC such a crime?  I am also looking forward to the DLC, and I enjoyed the ending I chose for the reasons (as spoiler free as I could make them) that I stated earlier in the post.  Because someone doesn't share your view point is hardly evidence of being blind or overly zealous.  I think it's a good thing that he enjoyed the endings, and is looking forward to DLC.  It means that his hobby of gaming is paying off for him.  That's a good thing in my book.  

Modifié par wileydsp, 22 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[Anaki86]

SpideyKnight wrote...

Anaki86 wrote...

I enjoyed the endings. I will also enjoy any ending DLC that Bioware will produce.

That isn't reasoning.  That's blind aherance, zealotry even, and that's a bad thing.

Excuse me? Rather than write an essay detailing all of the things I liked and didn't like for people who could probably care less I simply stated that I like Mass Effect and will continue to do so. I have issues with it, but I liked it overall.

If there is a particular part that someone wants my viewpoint on I'll give it, but I'm not going to spew my thoughts all over everyone else.

Thank you. 

[Dragoonlordz]

SpideyKnight wrote...

Anaki86 wrote...

I enjoyed the endings. I will also enjoy any ending DLC that Bioware will produce.

That isn't reasoning.  That's blind aherance, zealotry even, and that's a bad thing.

What he or she does with his or her money is none of your concern.

[nelly21]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What he or she does with his or her money is none of your concern.

Oh Dragoonlordz...

You still think that's how BSN works?

You eternal optimist you.

[az350z]

I don't have to like it, I can just accept it without throwing a tantrum. It is what it is, and it didn't answer all questions - which is preferable.

Modifié par az350z, 22 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[He4vyMet4l]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Everything you say or I say about what you or I did and did not see is our own personal interpretation of what we saw. If you have something against personal interpretation and anothers perspective based on imagination or perception then why did you bother creating this thread and ask question which have to rely on such. The story is also about what I wish for it to be about as the player through subjective opinion.

I'm sorry. Did we not play the same game? Did we not take the same companions with us? Did we not fight the same enemies? Did we not use the same ship? Did we not go to the same planets?

There are no infinite outcomes to the game and the progress being made by you. And that is why I said what I said about you reasons. By saying this, it also seems to me that you used the game to make up your own story, which is fine I guess.

But it is also the reason why the HTL guys are upset. Atleast part of it.

[Tazzmission]

az350z wrote...

I don't have to like it, I can just accept it without throwing a tantrum. It is what it is, and it didn't answer all questions - which is preferable.

i comend you for that.


i wish alot of fans would do the same


me personally the endings are just ok enough for me to be happy 

[MongoChuck]

wileydsp wrote...

MongoChuck wrote...

I doubt that most people have actually played the game twice. So judging the game from one single gameplay is like an American police officer shooting at sight.

I don't really follow you here.  I've played one playthrough, and am on my renegade femshep run through.  I still found the ending I chose in that playthrough fitting for me.  It's also very easy to re-expereince the end since you are put right back at the point of no return.  I may have only one full run on the belt, but I did go through the last part 3 times. 

And if you are holding a gun, I have no problem with an officer shooting on sight. 

There are a lot of people who keep talking about plot holes. Most of them are because of the information was given in ME2 or from your companions in ME3. I liked the endings from my first playthrough but had no idea what the hell was going on to be honest, untill I played the game for the second time and played ME2 again. There are a lot dots and strings to put together but they all give you an insight on a scale that most people can't from a single gameplay or only by playing ME3.

Modifié par MongoChuck, 22 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[wileydsp]

MongoChuck wrote...




There are a lot of people who keep talking about plot holes. Most of them are because of the information was given in ME2 or from your companions in ME3. I liked the endings from my first playthrough but had no idea what the hell was going on to be honest, untill I played the game for the second time and played ME2 again. There are a lot dots and strings to put together but they all give you an insight on a scale that most people can't from a single gameplay or only by playing ME3.

Ahh I see.  Yeah I was working off a freshly completed me1-me3 import so most stuff was still pretty "new" in the mind for me.  But, I do see what you're saying now, thanks for the clarification.

Modifié par wileydsp, 22 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[He4vyMet4l]

MongoChuck wrote...
There are a lot of people who keep talking about plot holes. Most of them are because of the information was given in ME2 or from your companions in ME3. I liked the endings from my first playthrough but had no idea what the hell was going on to be honest, untill I played the game for the second time and played ME2 again. There are a lot dots and strings to put together but they all give you an insight on a scale that most people can't from a single gameplay or only by playing ME3.

Are you actually saying that if I play all the games, there are no plot holes at the end?

[Jayce]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

I didn't like the ending, but I found it moderately acceptable. It didn't make the most sense in the world, but I felt it was reasonably emotional and made an impact. I have also seen worst game endings. So...

I liked it but I agree with the latter part of your statement bolded. The elements that were not treated like a wiki of information actually sparked imagination (which is a good thing and something present since the dawn of these forums and in/about every title and franchise Bioware has created).

I also liked the intent of the ending. My problem with it is the execution. I didn't like the fact that the narrative does a 180 in order to make the parable work. It would've worked quite well for me if Shepard had been allowed to stick to his guns and argue with the catalyst in the same way he'd argued philosophy with everyone else up to that point.

That argument, that philosophical debate was essential to executing the intent Bioware were going for. It's absense completely undermines the point they were attempting to make. The discontinuity in Shepard's motivation completely cancels out the existential intent of the piece. 

As for the rest, I could live with the ending cinematics if they were given just a little more clarity to differentiate them. 

That said, Synthesis still feels completely incongruous and misplaced. It's feels like it was added purely to be a 'Golden Mean' and it's impact on the intent wasn't thought through enough.

Modifié par Jayce F, 22 mars 2012 - 07:35 .

[Novate]

So those that liked the current ending, don't you feel the ending needs some improvement at least.

I just can't wrap my head around that the ending we got is the ending we have to live with.

To all those that stated that their originally planned DLC was gonna explain it, Don't you feel that by allowing DLC to explain things in the Main Game is unacceptable. Because not everyone will buy DLC, so to those that didn't buy, you are left with questions in your head.
And Mass Effect 3 was never marketed as Part 1 of 4...etc

All we are asking for is what we paid for, why go against us in this stand.
Don't you want those questions answered, instead of speculations, we want it from the creators.

[He4vyMet4l]

This is like the kid who cried wolf. The wolf is here, and all the pro-ending guys will get the kid killed. Just to make him learn a lesson.

[MongoChuck]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

MongoChuck wrote...
There are a lot of people who keep talking about plot holes. Most of them are because of the information was given in ME2 or from your companions in ME3. I liked the endings from my first playthrough but had no idea what the hell was going on to be honest, untill I played the game for the second time and played ME2 again. There are a lot dots and strings to put together but they all give you an insight on a scale that most people can't from a single gameplay or only by playing ME3.

Are you actually saying that if I play all the games, there are no plot holes at the end?

It's a trilogy. There is a lot of mystery around the whole Crucible and Reaper indoctrination process that seem quite odd. Not going to discuss any theories here in this topic since it's a No Spoiler topic. Some of this might be clarified by playing a complete playthrough of ME2 and ME3, this includes DLC's, Codex' and companions.

[Anaki86]

Novate wrote...

So those that liked the current ending, don't you feel the ending needs some improvement at least.

I just can't wrap my head around that the ending we got is the ending we have to live with.

To all those that stated that their originally planned DLC was gonna explain it, Don't you feel that by allowing DLC to explain things in the Main Game is unacceptable. Because not everyone will buy DLC, so to those that didn't buy, you are left with questions in your head.
And Mass Effect 3 was never marketed as Part 1 of 4...etc

All we are asking for is what we paid for, why go against us in this stand.
Don't you want those questions answered, instead of speculations, we want it from the creators.

I think that the endings as they are now are suitable. Everything is concluded, but some of it is done so off stage. I imagine that this DLC will offer answers to those off stage conclusions that peope would like to see.

[wileydsp]

Novate wrote...

So those that liked the current ending, don't you feel the ending needs some improvement at least.

I just can't wrap my head around that the ending we got is the ending we have to live with.

To all those that stated that their originally planned DLC was gonna explain it, Don't you feel that by allowing DLC to explain things in the Main Game is unacceptable. Because not everyone will buy DLC, so to those that didn't buy, you are left with questions in your head.
And Mass Effect 3 was never marketed as Part 1 of 4...etc

All we are asking for is what we paid for, why go against us in this stand.
Don't you want those questions answered, instead of speculations, we want it from the creators.

To respond:

If the endings were to be improved, I would only need an epilogue of text that sums up whatever people want summed up overall.  I thought they were going to do something like that since each game starts with a wall o text.  Why not come full circle with the ending wall o text. 

About the DLC:

I don't agree that it's unacceptable for the DLC to cover the ending questions people have.  The alterations are being addressed due to fan concern, and as such should be treated as a comprimise.  The fans who have issues get what they want, but Bioware has to create it and that costs money so they should charge.  There is also a flip side to your argument in that the people who don't buy that specific DLC may not need answers so they may not feel as if there are questions in their head that are left unresolved.

I'm actually not against anyone who wants what they want in relation to the end.  I've said before I fascinated by this entire back and forth.  Would I like more information?  Sure, but that's more out of the fact that I love the universe created by the Mass Effect IP and most of the published things I enjoy getting my hands on.  I understand your point of view, and I don't disagree with it.  I think it's only fair to acknolwedge the reverse for people who don't feel the same way.  While you want more from the creators, some others may not desire it over everything else.  I'm certainly interested in seeing what happens though.  It's a very very interesting time for sure.

[He4vyMet4l]

MongoChuck wrote...

It's a trilogy. There is a lot of mystery around the whole Crucible and Reaper indoctrination process that seem quite odd. Not going to discuss any theories here in this topic since it's a No Spoiler topic. Some of this might be clarified by playing a complete playthrough of ME2 and ME3, this includes DLC's, Codex' and companions.

Agreed. But the end can't be explained, even if you played 100's of times through the trilogy. Up until the end, yes, there are no important questions (that I can think about) that weren't answered. The problem starts and ends with theories that can't be proven.

[Blarty]

I neither like nor dislike the endings but I'm not going to rage about three colour-coded endings simply because I'm not myopic in the way I look at the ME universe, each of the 3 endings have huge implications for the future of the ME universe, and one of them has such possibilities even into the game mechanics, but most people can't get past the colours or the 'Why is the Normandy there?!' Perhaps it would have made more sense if Shepard had worn a watch? Or woke up in front of the beam and it was morning? Or if over the radio you here 'Shepard is down. Shepard is down. All hands retreat!' but that would be spoon feeding you explanations, something which many clearly want. Or perhaps a Codex entry might help.
Another favourite is 'But the relays are gone!?!?' Mars still has the Prothean archives, could a copy of the Conduit blueprints not be stored there, much in the same way as Liara's time capsules? QEC communication still works, large number of engineers, if they survive will have travelled with the Crucible.

Sure there are plot holes, and some of them are big, but NONE of them are insurmountable.... After all you seem to believe in FTL by magically reducing an objects mass to zero, so as to counter infinite mass as you approach the speed of light, without batting your eyelids

Modifié par Blarty, 22 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[Murkman4683]

^
Not too shabby.

[Dragoonlordz]

Novate wrote...

So those that liked the current ending, don't you feel the ending needs some improvement at least.

I just can't wrap my head around that the ending we got is the ending we have to live with.

To all those that stated that their originally planned DLC was gonna explain it, Don't you feel that by allowing DLC to explain things in the Main Game is unacceptable. Because not everyone will buy DLC, so to those that didn't buy, you are left with questions in your head.
And Mass Effect 3 was never marketed as Part 1 of 4...etc

All we are asking for is what we paid for, why go against us in this stand.
Don't you want those questions answered, instead of speculations, we want it from the creators.

I was happy with what we got, I am happy for additional DLC (any) because I loved tha game. The thing is we would of got such DLC regardless as I stated elsewhere even without the vitriol and hold the line spamming or forming of a group. Bioware generally always listens to feedback and provides solutions or improvements through DLC. That is what we are getting after all this fuss and anger and bile regardless. They achieved nothing expect maybe that donation to charity but even that was emotional blackmail by attaching the donation to a cuase. Like I said elsewhere many times I have no problem with people asking for things or specifically in the format of feedback (polite and respectable). This is far from what we got and still do not have such by many here. What I have intolerance of is some of the methods many of those over time have used to get it when would of got such without doing all that. The method not the principle is the issue. The group due to some of it's members and the way the group handled this issue has done more damage to the respect and credibility of these forums and the Bioware fanbase than Bioware itself (as also staed elsewhere ME3 sales first week broke all records and second week information came out that points to ME3 being the second highest selling game in the UK last week and highest selling one in USA still).

As said elsewhere...

Holding the line is redundant because as mentioned elsewhere they have won nothing that they would not of got anyways. They would of got this additional content regardless just from constructive feedback which Bioware always asks for. The boycotts, the threats, the review bombing, the filing complaints with the FTC, emotional and financial blackmail, the aggression and arrogance of many (not all) was pointless. All feedback is asked for and upon which they would of created DLC to address such things as they always do even when remove all the nonsense people did in this case. It is essentially a gimmick to make them feel better not affect change, change they would of got from feedback alone in first place like all titles Bioware makes do the same. Wait for feedback and apply it to DLC.

I also take issue with many of the people taking such a stance in contrast to their past actions such as I describe here.

There is a hypocritical element to many of your stances in that many of those same people who pushed for changes in this case have severe and I do mean severe issues with meta-gaming and there has been truly large disdain when such topics as adding multiplayer to single player RPG's, anime series and influenced figurines or allowing the fans to choose the appearance of FemShep they hissed and they moaned how just because it's popular to other potential customers en masse (more so than current fanbase in number) like such features or did not match their own preferences... The moment it is something they want they praise and use the same thing they hated in order to get what they want. In fact many of them kept saying how during the FemShep aspect that it should be left to Bioware and not the fans and now they changed their tune because their feelings were hurt. 

You asked what my problem is with this topic, I don't think I can be any clearer than that. ^

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[MongoChuck]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

MongoChuck wrote...

It's a trilogy. There is a lot of mystery around the whole Crucible and Reaper indoctrination process that seem quite odd. Not going to discuss any theories here in this topic since it's a No Spoiler topic. Some of this might be clarified by playing a complete playthrough of ME2 and ME3, this includes DLC's, Codex' and companions.

Agreed. But the end can't be explained, even if you played 100's of times through the trilogy. Up until the end, yes, there are no important questions (that I can think about) that weren't answered. The problem starts and ends with theories that can't be proven.

The ending can be explained but the topic is in a no spoiler topic

Modifié par MongoChuck, 22 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[AlanC9]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

MongoChuck wrote...
There are a lot of people who keep talking about plot holes. Most of them are because of the information was given in ME2 or from your companions in ME3. I liked the endings from my first playthrough but had no idea what the hell was going on to be honest, untill I played the game for the second time and played ME2 again. There are a lot dots and strings to put together but they all give you an insight on a scale that most people can't from a single gameplay or only by playing ME3.

Are you actually saying that if I play all the games, there are no plot holes at the end?

That'd be a first for Bio. Or any other game company.