236 réponses à ce sujet

[Tymvir]

They're just embarrassed because they defended Bioware's "artistic integrity" in a previous article and now feel stupid and betrayed.

[Mr.House]

So I guess Bethesda and Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle where spineless?

[GamerrangerX]

GAMESPOT IS PIECES OF ****!!!

[HermanGunther]

Attention 43 Volus Bombing Wing!!! I see an article groundside which requires your immediate attention!!

[toolfan9284]

Where was Gamespot months ago when fans were upset about Mass Effect: Deception and the errors in the book? For BW's sake and the sake of the fans I hope this whole fiasco is all "part of the plan" just to stick it to all the media for calling BW spineless and the fans whiner's and crybabies.

[MoldySpore]

Fuzrum77 wrote...

And I'm gonna say this here, as I'm trying to say it pretty much everywhere I post: I, and I think most of us, just want additional endings. They don't have to change a thing. I think a lot of us would just like the opportunity to tell the a certain someone: No. And then just have all those war assets do their damn best. So we can be "Big Damn Heroes."

Edit: I'm in the non-spoiler forum I just realized that. Editing!

Agreed. I want a TRUE Paragon ending. I want the Happy go lucky everyone lives and the galaxy is saved with most of its worlds and races intact, with clips from future events such as Tali and Shepard building a house on that spot on the Quarian homeworld with shots of the Geth helping, I want shots of all the crew members we've grown to love doing something meaningful post war, and some kind of scene that shows everyone is still in touch with eachother and is able to enjoy their friendships that YOU helped keep together for 3 games post-war.

Same for Renegade. I want to be abel to replay all 3 games as a super bad ass and end up controlling the reapers completely and ruling the galaxy or something. These should be OPTIONS in addition to what is already there. Sure they may sound cliche to some, but if you choose to play YOUR Shepard like that you should be rewarded with the ending that you are pushing for though 3 games.

[Novate]

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

My favorite ones:

Kevin VanOrd‏: 
The Internet accused Bioware of selling out. Then, it demanded Bioware sell out. Congratulations, Internet: you got what you wanted. 

Brendan Sinclair:
So if the government comes knocking, games are art. But when we hate the ending, they're products and the customer is always right. Got it. 


http://www.gamespot....hanges-6367380/

Its extremely obvious that none of them actually played Mass Effect and saw the ending to Mass Effect 3, they probably saw a headline that a Game Developer is trying to please their Fan base and that there is alot of pressure to do so because fans are forcing them to do something. So they jump on it as if they knew the whole story.

Why don't they read some of the actual posts that explains the main reason for this outcry.
Educate yourself before you post your judgements.

first of all, ME3 was never marketed and advertised as an incomplete package, every interview every ad they had they promised 16 distinct unique endings, we got A- RED, B-Blue, C-Green options.
No future DLC to continue the story as part 2 , part 3 of the ME3 saga, ME3 was marketed as an Beginning to End journey for Shepard, the final Journey. Any planned DLC was never gonna change that. Therefore our argument is on the current game, how its Incomplete, how it was not as marketed.

Learn the arguments, then make your case.

[Kalms]

MoldySpore wrote...

The fact of the matter is the ending is the only major issue with Mass Effect 3, and that seems to be the general consensus. And you shouldn't rate a game on a single part of it. 

Oh, okay. So if the ending nullifies and invalidates the rest of the game, emotionally speaking, I should just accept it?

Games without emotional payoff are meaningless. Even multiplayer has payoff: Less play time, clear a bronze challenge and you win! Yay!

A game needs to justify its story, and make the gamer feel like they accomplished what they needed to. Mass Effect 3 failed when it came to the ultimate payoff. It invoked a lot of negative feelings, and failed to show us what our actions accomplished. It just ended with a sigh - oh, and a plea to buy upcoming DLC.

[DarxydeBluus]

Gamespot accusing others of selling out. That may be the funniest thing I have ever read.

Honestly, the reaction of the gaming "press" has pushed me more towards Retake. Beforehand my view was that the content of ME3 was the prerogative of BioWare while my prerogative was to offer feedback, hope it gets taken into account in future products, and ultimately not purchase anything else from BW if I'm not satisfied. Now however, the fit that these "journalists" are throwing makes Retake way too much fun.

[Morkins]

I posted this as a separate thread, but it actually probably fits just as well in this thread:

Gamespot and numerous other gaming websites keep posting articles where they claim that any change to the end of the game is a compromise in the “artistic integrity” of the game. However, that is a statement that completely ignores the realities of gaming as an art. It is a collaborative art form. ”Artistic integrity” does not strictly exist in collaborative art.

In Film, the actual photography is often not done by the director. It is done by the Director of Photography. And I cannot even begin to count the number of times that a Director of Photography has looked at the final film and said “That is not what I intended when I shot that.” Or when a writer sees a scene and says “I didn’t write that to be portrayed that way.” Or when an actor sees a performance and says “That wasn’t my intention.” Hell, not even directors have the final say on films. Each contributor has their own “art” and at every single point along the line each of them has their “artistic integrity” compromised. That is simply the reality of collaborating with other people.

When 400 people collaborate on something, using the term “Artistic Integrity” means nothing, because whose “Artistic Integrity?” In the case of a Film, you can boil it down to the collective group creating the final piece, and be done with it (although spectator theory would cause problems for the entire concept of “artistic integrity” to begin with because art doesn’t mean anything until it is viewed, and each viewer brings something unique to the piece of art). The final product is done when it is printed onto film. It doesn’t change beyond that.

With a game, the final “collaborator” is the player. Thus, the player has a say in the artistic vision. The game isn’t done until it is played. It isn’t “set in stone” until it is played. The player is just as significant in determining the artistic vision as the writer, animators, and concept artists. It is the thing that makes gaming as an art form unique. It is the thing that we all love about gaming. But, it means that trying to claim “artistic integrity” to defend the vision of a game ignores the single most significant element that makes gaming a distinct form of art.

If you want to talk about gaming as an art form, stop pretending that it is like painting or writing. There isn’t a singular “artist” providing a “vision” for which there is an inherent “integrity.” There is a collective that contributes to the final vision, and even the player is part of that.

I’m not saying that BioWare should do precisely what the fans here are demanding… I am simply saying that ignoring them behind the guise of “Artistic Integrity” is disingenous and completely ignorant about the realities of gaming as an art form. Within gaming, gameplay immediately involves the player in the creation of the art. They are part of the “artistic vision.” Ignoring someone who already has an impact on the game behind the guise of “artistic integrity” sort of misses the entire point of the medium. BioWare is welcome to ignore everything, just as a Director of the film can ignore the artistic wishes of the Director of Photography, and the Producer can ignore the artistic wishes of the Director. However, attempting to justify that as “artistic integrity” misses the entire point of why gaming is its own art form in the first place.

I don't necessarily know if BioWare is thinking of it the same way that I am, but I hope that they look at this and understand that "artistic integrity" is a relative term, and that changing something is not a compromise of artistic integrity... It is simply a manifestation of the realities of gaming as an art form, where the player takes part in the creation of the art.

[Ryzaki]

I wonder why these artistic integrity defenders aren't crying about Prothy being DLC instead of the main game.

[Docmeff22]

I won't slander Gamespot, you can form your own opinion of that website.  But it is just like IGN.  They are essentially paid to give good reviews to products, etc.

Bioware does not have to do anything.  Here is a novel concept, keep producing products your consumers want.  If you decide to provide a product not up to your consumers' standards, then see how long you will have consumers.

It's simple really.  A good product will have consumers.  A bad product will not.  Gamespot does not seem to understand this fundamental concept.

The same applies if you want to call Mass Effect Art (which I think it has earned the right to be).  But the beholder has to value that art for it to be meaningful.

[Mercedonius]

Wow, everyone tries to diminish the retake movement by saying they are a vocal extreme, but....

I don't know whose worse, seems like news journalists have plenty of vitriol of their own against Bioware.

Modifié par Mercedonius, 22 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[Kalms]

Docmeff22 wrote...

I won't slander Gamespot, you can form your own opinion of that website.  But it is just like IGN.  They are essentially paid to give good reviews to products, etc.

Bioware does not have to do anything.  Here is a novel concept, keep producing products your consumers want.  If you decide to provide a product not up to your consumers' standards, then see how long you will have consumers.

It's simple really.  A good product will have consumers.  A bad product will not.  Gamespot does not seem to understand this fundamental concept.

The same applies if you want to call Mass Effect Art (which I think it has earned the right to be).  But the beholder has to value that art for it to be meaningful.

Well said.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Oh man, I KNEW this was going to be good.

*munches on popcorn*

[catabuca]

Ryzaki wrote...

I wonder why these artistic integrity defenders aren't crying about Prothy being DLC instead of the main game.

Some of them are. Some people are able to praise those things that they like while criticising those things that they don't like. It's not an all or nothing thing. There are shades of grey. Criticism and praise are nuanced. Or they should be.

[Giggles_Manically]

Why should I give a damn about a website that fired a guy for giving a low review score.

[He4vyMet4l]

It's like the point was killed off in favor of artistic integrity.

Everyone is missing it now.

[Heather Cline]

I find some of the responses to the blog post to be offensive. Seriously insulting not only those who voiced their opinions but also calling Bioware "Boo-oware" among other things is childish. Yes I've called out Bioware on their lack of effort regarding several things with the game. I have never once however called Bioware names or called anyone on here names. I believe that some of those responses are just plain wrong.

[element eater]

they are idiots

pretty much every popular medium has done something like this but now just because its a video game and bioware its awful

absolute morons

Modifié par element eater, 22 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[hoorayforicecream]

I'm confused. I thought people said Bioware paid Gamespot and IGN off. Why would they be against this announcement if they were?

[OmegaBlue0231]

Allow me to add my 2 cents on art and business. I commission people for art regularly (mostly digital). Now if I'm unsatisfied with the finished product and need something changed liked the color of the skin, a small but very important thing. They'll usually change that; sometimes for free, sometimes for a few dollars depending on the work needed.

Does that make it not art? No! It's still art but it's also a product that has been made for a consumer to buy.

[MDT1]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I'm confused. I thought people said Bioware paid Gamespot and IGN off. Why would they be against this announcement if they were?

Because other gaming companies pay too and now gamers all over the world could realize that they don't have to accept every **** thats thrown at them and say thank you?

Edit: With all the attention this gets I'm sure developers all over the world are afraid they can't hide bad business practices and lazyness behind their  "artistic integrity" anymore.

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[Namevah]

Docmeff22 wrote...
They are essentially paid to give good reviews to products, etc.

I really doubt that. Not since John Davison tooks the reigns, anyway.

Anyway, the comment that really struck me was...

Brendan Sinclair ‏ @BrendanSinclair

So if the government comes knocking, games are art. But when we hate the
ending, they're products and the customer is always right. Got it.

How many people proclaiming that BioWare is a product and not art previously defended games as art when Roger Ebert claimed otherwise? Or when the industry stood before the Supreme Court?

There aren't many comments posted by GameSpot that I disagree with.