I really don't see the problem with another ending.Surely the pre-dlc options are still their , all their doing is adding another option or showing more of what the endings are so it makes sense.I really don't get the problem with this at all.
Gamespot: Shares Opinions on Endgame Changing DLC and Calls Bioware "Spineless"
Débuté par
OutlawTorn6806
, mars 22 2012 05:10
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#102
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:44
TheBlackBaron
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So basically this thread boils down to "Gamespot said something I don't like, they must be paid off, I don't know by who but it must have happened!"
And the Retake movement descends further into self-parody.
And the Retake movement descends further into self-parody.
#103
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:45
SpideyKnight
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Wow, and people ask why I don't have Twitter? The immaturity present is simply astounding. From "professionals" in the video game industry. That's just extremely sad. I don't even want to make it to the bottom of the page. Look I understand everyone is human and I'm the last person that wants these people to be robots. But seriously? This is just a sad mismash of ignorance and misinformation. All of it completely uncalled for. Way to present intelligent counter-arguments ladies and gentlemen of gamespot. What is this high school?
What do these people know of integrity? Artistic or otherwise? Very little, if their ravings are any indication. Don't stoop to their level, present your feedback in an intelligent and respectful way and go on about your business. Bio has shown repeatedly that they are listening to intelligent discussions. Despite the lunacy presented here.
Also, if someone does have twitter inform Mr. Gerstmann that his review states he got the best ending. That he got double the points necessary for it, "easily" and without MP. Despite the fallaciousness of that claim, if it is indeed true, then he tweets lies as his Shepard did not meet the fate he says Shepard did.
What do these people know of integrity? Artistic or otherwise? Very little, if their ravings are any indication. Don't stoop to their level, present your feedback in an intelligent and respectful way and go on about your business. Bio has shown repeatedly that they are listening to intelligent discussions. Despite the lunacy presented here.
Also, if someone does have twitter inform Mr. Gerstmann that his review states he got the best ending. That he got double the points necessary for it, "easily" and without MP. Despite the fallaciousness of that claim, if it is indeed true, then he tweets lies as his Shepard did not meet the fate he says Shepard did.
#104
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:46
Novate
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We aren't making Bioware do anything, we aren't telling them what to do with the endings.
All we are asking is for a true end that actually give ME3 a Conclusion.
Its up to Bioware on what to do, we give them ideas, we are asking Bioware that if they are out of ideas or doesn't know what to do, here is a few fan made examples, they can take it , or create their own. They wanted speculations and discussion, Indoctrination theory is what we came up with, they can use it, they can forget it. Its up to them, we aren't telling Bioware that Indoctrination is real, make it real. Its just an idea that was suppose to help give the fans some closure.
No one is forcing Bioware to use our ideas, we just want someone to tell all the Fans that they have Endings that will answer all our questions. That will provide their fans the closure they needed.
The content, the ideas behind those is up to the Creators, Writers, developers.
To all those game sites, please do your research, educate yourself, know the true reasons behind the Hold the Line movement.
All we are asking is for a true end that actually give ME3 a Conclusion.
Its up to Bioware on what to do, we give them ideas, we are asking Bioware that if they are out of ideas or doesn't know what to do, here is a few fan made examples, they can take it , or create their own. They wanted speculations and discussion, Indoctrination theory is what we came up with, they can use it, they can forget it. Its up to them, we aren't telling Bioware that Indoctrination is real, make it real. Its just an idea that was suppose to help give the fans some closure.
No one is forcing Bioware to use our ideas, we just want someone to tell all the Fans that they have Endings that will answer all our questions. That will provide their fans the closure they needed.
The content, the ideas behind those is up to the Creators, Writers, developers.
To all those game sites, please do your research, educate yourself, know the true reasons behind the Hold the Line movement.
#105
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:49
aimlessgun
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Apparently Gamespot thinks that context is unimportant and that whether a game should be changed is a matter of set principles.
Idiots.
Context is everything. There are no rules for this. Mass Effect's ending deserved to be changed, but not because of some strict principles saying that games are a product and the customer is always right. Mass Effect's ending deserved to be changed because it was goddamn terrible. THIS SPECIFIC CASE deserved to be changed. It sets no precedents for games in general.
Idiots.
Context is everything. There are no rules for this. Mass Effect's ending deserved to be changed, but not because of some strict principles saying that games are a product and the customer is always right. Mass Effect's ending deserved to be changed because it was goddamn terrible. THIS SPECIFIC CASE deserved to be changed. It sets no precedents for games in general.
#106
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:49
Brownfinger
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Gamespot. XD
Yeah, because they're not angry nerds. Nope. Totally objective.
When criticism like this is handed down, I consider the source. "Evaluate the evaluator", if you will.
Yeah, because they're not angry nerds. Nope. Totally objective.
When criticism like this is handed down, I consider the source. "Evaluate the evaluator", if you will.
#107
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:50
Arch1eviathan
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Why acuse something with such a subjective statement. Honestly, what kind of writers are these people hireing between IGN's Vlogs attacking the fans and this from gamespot. Where's the professionalism?
#108
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:52
LOST SPARTANJLC
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MoldySpore wrote...
OutlawTorn6806 wrote...
My favorite ones:
Kevin VanOrd:
The Internet accused Bioware of selling out. Then, it demanded Bioware sell out. Congratulations, Internet: you got what you wanted.
Brendan Sinclair:
So if the government comes knocking, games are art. But when we hate the ending, they're products and the customer is always right. Got it.
http://www.gamespot....hanges-6367380/
This isn't about art vs. product or right vs. wrong. The fact is, calling a video game "art" is a double edged sword when trying to analyze a situation like this. While I agree it is a FORM of art, when people think of art they immediately think of a picture or a painting or a photograph. Something that is static. Asking a painter to go back and change a painting that has already dried and is sitting in a mueseum isn't really comparable to ADDING ADDITIONAL CONTENT to a video game. Video games are infinitely modifiable, shown easily by fan made mods AND the DLC we all download. Video games are most definitely a form of art, but not in the traditional sense.
So, when a painter recieves negative feedback on a painting, usually they will just take that into account for the next painting, which could have nothing to do with the theme of the previous painting. For a programmer or director of a video game, especially a multi-game series where you have millions of people PURCHASING a product, which they have been invested in for the better part of a decade, and you have such a universally negative response to the CLIMAX of that series, you have to look at it objectively and realize you might have made mistakes, and that there IS an obligation to the customers that have supported you this far. If it was a few internet trolls, then whatever. But when you see polls with over 90% of people having a problem with the ending, you have to think "well, perhaps we messed up" if you are involved in the project, especially if you were involved with the part that people have an issue with.
Bioware is doing this, and is listening to their fans feedback like they have with both of the other games. Hopefully they will come through with what players wanted to begin with.
This all might be an important lesson to learn for future publishers and game creators who want to have a game series with so much choice and depth that it spans many years and many changes. Perhaps for a series like Mass Effect the fans should have been involved in deciding the options available to them in the climax. This could be done a number of ways without revealing spoilers. A simple way for fans to express their desires before the ending was made could have easily mitigated this issue.
In all honesty though, I never expected Bioware to bumble the ending this badly. The feeling I had in my gut when it was over was so not what I was expecting to be feeling after the climax of my favorite RPG game series of all time.
I just wish some of the other AAA games would mess up their endings and have them make zero sense.And then the game developer comes out and says it was an artistic ending/just look at our critics scores.I hope the people who don't want it become affected by other games that they like and play.Only then will they truly get what this whole uproar about because it's not the a,b,c stuff(it's Joker running away for no reason crashing on a tropical planet with two squadmates who were right beside you for the final charge.).Now unless the squadmates that were with you is some type of glitch then it makes a little more sense.
Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 22 mars 2012 - 07:53 .
#109
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:56
LOST SPARTANJLC
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Smecky Kitteh wrote...
Why acuse something with such a subjective statement. Honestly, what kind of writers are these people hireing between IGN's Vlogs attacking the fans and this from gamespot. Where's the professionalism?
Critics = people that like to put themselves on a high horse , that think their opinion is better then any non-critics.That's what is has become , in the 80's/90's you didn't need critics and we really don't need them now.
#110
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:57
klxfx
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For me it wasn't that the ending was bad, it was that it wasn't even there. I was expecting some form of epilogue to find out how my choices affected the game world. Got no closure at all.
#111
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 07:58
Azorgamer
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Here's an issue that keeps coming to my mind. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings movies in theaters very much...but when I bought the DVD's I bought the extended version and LOVED the movies even more. I find it so funny that if Bioware makes a DLC which "extends" the game they somehow have soldout to the fans?!?!
ME3 was great, the ending was a bit rushed and left a bunch of unanswered questions, make a DLC to answer those questions and you make an already great game into an absolutely awesome game. It's that simple, these reviewers seem to not understand that simple logic.
ME3 was great, the ending was a bit rushed and left a bunch of unanswered questions, make a DLC to answer those questions and you make an already great game into an absolutely awesome game. It's that simple, these reviewers seem to not understand that simple logic.
#112
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:03
LOST SPARTANJLC
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Azorgamer wrote...
Here's an issue that keeps coming to my mind. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings movies in theaters very much...but when I bought the DVD's I bought the extended version and LOVED the movies even more. I find it so funny that if Bioware makes a DLC which "extends" the game they somehow have soldout to the fans?!?!
ME3 was great, the ending was a bit rushed and left a bunch of unanswered questions, make a DLC to answer those questions and you make an already great game into an absolutely awesome game. It's that simple, these reviewers seem to not understand that simple logic.
^This , I don't get that behavior it must purest type of thing for a game.The same people have zero objection to dlc content which they rather pay and play.I don't get it , just like I don't why people think critics are professional because their not.Their nothing more than attention hogs , who tell everyone else listen to me because my opinion is important because I have a job doing this.
Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 22 mars 2012 - 08:04 .
#113
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:06
AlanC9
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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
I really don't see the problem with another ending.Surely the pre-dlc options are still their , all their doing is adding another option or showing more of what the endings are so it makes sense.I really don't get the problem with this at all.
Depends on what's in it. If it's a much better ending than the ones we heve, then all my Shepards have to pick it and the original endings are effectively gone.
Though I guess I can just never DL it. Like Prothy, who doesn't exist in my playthroughs.
#114
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:07
TheBlackBaron
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Azorgamer wrote...
Here's an issue that keeps coming to my mind. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings movies in theaters very much...but when I bought the DVD's I bought the extended version and LOVED the movies even more. I find it so funny that if Bioware makes a DLC which "extends" the game they somehow have soldout to the fans?!?!
ME3 was great, the ending was a bit rushed and left a bunch of unanswered questions, make a DLC to answer those questions and you make an already great game into an absolutely awesome game. It's that simple, these reviewers seem to not understand that simple logic.
"Selling out" is nothing more than shorthand for "the company (or the band, or the author, or the artist, or whatever) did something I don't like". Similar to how "streamlining" has become a catch-all term for anything wrong with recent Bioware games (and some of that criticism I do agree with), or how anything wrong with a multi-platform title is attributed to "consolization" by PC kiddies playing on a machine bought with their parents money.
If you didn't like the ME3 endings, Bioware was selling out when it made them. If you defended the endings, now Bioware is selling out.
AlanC9 wrote...
Though I guess I can just never DL it. Like Prothy, who doesn't exist in my playthroughs.
Off topic but after playing around with him, I don't feel like he's an overly absurd addition to the universe, not when Mass Effect is and always has been a space opera (albeit one with hard sci-fi aspirations). I felt like the story reason for his surviving 50,000 years into the next cycle was explained well enough and in a way that makes sense.
Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 22 mars 2012 - 08:15 .
#115
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:07
Gigamantis
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So, another gaming publication laughing at your stupid requests and deriding Bioware for giving into your sniveling, pathetic crying. Thank god, there's still A LITTLE integrity left in gaming. You people are an embarrassment.
#116
Guest_Logan Cloud_*
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:08
Guest_Logan Cloud_*
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I'm like 99.9% sure that post-ending DLC was being made before the retakers started cluttering these damn forums. So no, I don't think Bioware "sold out."
I think that many of you need to be more patient though, as they're going to announce something in April anyway.
I think that many of you need to be more patient though, as they're going to announce something in April anyway.
#117
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:09
Shadowwot
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I have no problems with BioWare wanting to release additional content regarding the ending of ME3 - I just find it annoying that 'fans' are not happy with BioWare regardless of what they do.
#118
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:12
DaJe
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Gigamantis wrote...
So, another gaming publication laughing at your stupid requests and deriding Bioware for giving into your sniveling, pathetic crying. Thank god, there's still A LITTLE integrity left in gaming. You people are an embarrassment.
The irony of this post is incredible.
-Customers asking for the product that was promised = pathetic crying?
-Yet another gaming publication that is AGAINST general audience and thus losing all right to exist in the first place
-Integrity in gaming? BW spits on their own integrity with their lies, plot holes and robot cameltoes.
#119
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:14
Harorrd
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the problem is that people want a real ending, like the final stone in a masterpiece,
#120
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:14
LOST SPARTANJLC
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Shadowwot wrote...
I have no problems with BioWare wanting to release additional content regarding the ending of ME3 - I just find it annoying that 'fans' are not happy with BioWare regardless of what they do.
Now that on both sides I can't stand.I do believe that bioware may have already been working on a solution to the ending but wanted to see if what was on the disc would be enough.And now they know and their doing the right thing for themselves and fans(Screw the critics).
#121
Guest_Alexbr_*
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:15
Guest_Alexbr_*
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catabuca wrote...
Most game reviewers - and let's assume they aren't in the pocket of publishers - review games in a different manner to the way fans review games. They look for different things. Neither can ever be completely objective, but official game reviewers often attempt to use certain criteria, for at least part of their review, that aim toward objectivity as much as possible. That means not bringing to the table their own personal love or hate for the genre, the franchise, the developer, and so on. They are interested in reviewing gameplay mechanics, combat, narrative, graphics, accessibility, and a whole other host of things. This list will change from reviewer to reviewer. That being said, despite their differences from fans, they will often bring their own personal likes and dislikes to the table as well. But that is often not their primary objective. It depends on the type of review they are writing. There are many. Not all reviews are equal in their objectives.
This is why we see so much disparity between official reviews and fan reviews. We are, by the nature of being fans, invested in ways a game journalist who isn't a member of BSN, who hasn't replayed the series countless times, simply isn't.
That doesn't make either type of reviewer better or worse at reviews, or more or less trustworthy. It means there are a range of voices to pick from when looking at game reviews, depending on what type of gamer you are. If you are already a fan of a series, you'll probably get more out of reviews written by other fans when you're looking for a sense of the 'feeling' of the game, and you might supplement that with official game reviews when looking for more objective accounts of gameplay, level design, etc. If you aren't a long time fan of a series, you might put more stock in official reviews first and foremost, and leave it up to yourself and your own playing to decide that 'feeling' of the game. Everyone is different.
So if official reviewers are giving the game a high score, it's because they aren't coming at it with the same investment as the fans. There is nothing wrong with that, it's simply a fact of how reviewing works. Occasionally you might get an official reviewer who is, in fact, a long time fan of the franchise, but even then, they might not be registered on BSN, they may not spend the time we do discussing it, to the extent that we do.
When either 'side' (and I loathe calling it sides, since even within the 'Retake' movement there appear to be so many disparate ideas and gripes) refuses, or is simply unable for whatever reason, to remember the context under which various people talking and writing about all of this are working, some nasty generalisations get thrown around, that shines a rather ugly light on everyone involved.
Cannot agree with you. When the rift between official reviews and gamers reviews are that huge and there's a scandal unfolding that caught attention of such media as Forbes and BBC something is obviously fishy. Or official reviewers are of complete incompetence. So it's either they were "influenced" or completely incompetent in their professional field.
After ME3 affair there's zero reason for anyone not only to trust "professional" reviews but even to read them.
#122
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:15
JMA22TB
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Overule wrote...
How is working to please the masses "selling out"...? That's the exact opposite of selling out. Selling out would mean ignoring us to please big business...
I guess it goes the other way for that side. Pretty fascinating if that's how they really feel O.o
#123
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:16
LOST SPARTANJLC
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DaJe wrote...
Gigamantis wrote...
So, another gaming publication laughing at your stupid requests and deriding Bioware for giving into your sniveling, pathetic crying. Thank god, there's still A LITTLE integrity left in gaming. You people are an embarrassment.
The irony of this post is incredible.
-Customers asking for the product that was promised = pathetic crying?
-Yet another gaming publication that is AGAINST general audience and thus losing all right to exist in the first place
-Integrity in gaming? BW spits on their own integrity with their lies, plot holes and robot cameltoes.
Seems like another Troll to me.
#124
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:17
Gigamantis
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You got the product that was promised 100% and no gaming publication is forced to abide your stupidity if they disagree with it.DaJe wrote...
Gigamantis wrote...
So, another gaming publication laughing at your stupid requests and deriding Bioware for giving into your sniveling, pathetic crying. Thank god, there's still A LITTLE integrity left in gaming. You people are an embarrassment.
The irony of this post is incredible.
-Customers asking for the product that was promised = pathetic crying?
-Yet another gaming publication that is AGAINST general audience and thus losing all right to exist in the first place
-Integrity in gaming? BW spits on their own integrity with their lies, plot holes and robot cameltoes.
Integrity is them sticking with their vision of the game's ending and not giving into some brats on their forums. I don't want to play a game where the writers are the puppets of untalented children.
#125
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 08:17
MoldySpore
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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
Only then will they truly get what this whole uproar about because it's not the a,b,c stuff(it's Joker running away for no reason crashing on a tropical planet with two squadmates who were right beside you for the final charge.).Now unless the squadmates that were with you is some type of glitch then it makes a little more sense.
See that is my problem. One of many with the ending. And I don't WANT the indoctrination ending if possible. That is just a way to explain away the problems with the current ending. In my mind, the only way I will be truely happy is if one of two things happen with the changes Bioware makes:
1) They add 2 more options, keeping everything else as it is, but a true Renegade and a true Paragon ending. As in, paragon everyone lives, reapers dead, all your choices you made are shown panned out with a glimpse into the future, showing that everyone is still together and hangs out during peace time, renegade something equal to paragon just bad/evil/red!
or
2) They completely change the end to match the rest of the series, no cloak and dagger M. Night Shyamalan trickery twist plot hole junk, real choices questioning everything up to the last with hard answers to anything left unanswered. Any new outcome that followed these guidelines would be better than what is there now.
But again, as I have said before in other posts, I will take ANYTHING to fix the knee to the gut I feel when I watch the current endings (any of them, even the so called "best" one).
