236 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

It's simple:

It's the idea that a game company should cave in to the demands of it's fans. If the endings need clarification or revision, it should be because Bioware wants to, not because a portion of the game's fans yell loud enough.

People are interpreting Ray's letter as thinking he's "caving in". While there's no way to tell if that's true or not, it does say something.

[Naqey]

Gigamantis wrote...

The new ending better be a DLC and better cost money if it happens. I want the real endings after every playthrough, not whatever hugs and rainbows garbage you pansies forced them to make.

well thank god dlc / patches / fixes are optional! 

[ShinsFortress]

Gigamantis wrote...

The new ending better be a DLC and better cost money if it happens. I want the real endings after every playthrough, not whatever hugs and rainbows garbage you pansies forced them to make.

Do you have to be so rude?

[Kanon777]

Rafe34 wrote...

Why do you accept the Reaper's word that this must be done?

How do they know this will happen? It obviously has never happened before, or we wouldn't be here.

Why don't the Reapers just TELL people that's going to happen?

Why don't they just come in and wipe out the SYNTHETICS?

This ending makes no sense. 95% of the people who think it does are just CoD folk who can't comprehend plot anyway. The other 5% are just nuts.

If I dont "acept" that it must be done, i chose Destroy or Synthesis

Javik himself had a speech about how there cant be peace between organics and machines (i dont agree its impossible but it shows that this was a problem faced by multiple cultures in the ME universe)

For the same reason the quarians broke the AI laws before creating the geth, people eventually break the rules, and with the singularity you just have to break once to **** everybody. And the reapers prefer to stop organics instead of giving any chance to get things right on their own (and this is the reason i dont agree with them)

They wipe synthetics AND "elevate" the inteligent organics (the source of the problem)

I dont play COD and the first shooting game i ever played was ME1, and im not "nuts", but thanks for the insult 

Modifié par tobito113, 22 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's simple:

It's the idea that a game company should cave in to the demands of it's fans. If the endings need clarification or revision, it should be because Bioware wants to, not because a portion of the game's fans yell loud enough.

People are interpreting Ray's letter as thinking he's "caving in". While there's no way to tell if that's true or not, it does say something.

The amount of chest thumping in Ray's letter hardly says "caving in" to me. When you repeatedly make promises to the fanbase, then break every single one of them, don't you think they should be held accountable for that?

What's bad enough is in the end people will want resolution badly enough and end up giving them even more money for it, on top of day 1 DLC. 

Seriously considering a new hobby, the bloodsucking nickle and diming vampire  the game industry has become is disheartning.

[Cody]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

chiliztri wrote...

How is the deus ex machina ending we got "art"?

That's not art, that's just terrible writing.

It's not unique or as Casey tried to say "Thought provoking" All they did was rip the ending off from a game from 10 years ago that neither fits the narrative of the series, or is particularly well written either.  Well said Chili.

It also rips off this
(look at title, date, compare the pic to the stargazer scene at the end of me3 and read the lyrics while thinking on the ending).

[RoninTX]

I used to be a regular visitor on both IGN and Gamespot, but as of today I canceled my accounts on their sites and not follow any of their youtube channels nor will I ever use them as reference if a game might be ok or not.

Well time to find some reliable pre-viewers and re-viewers.
Basically means no more pre-orders for me

[Kanon777]

I get it that alot of people have problems with the endings but its wierd how much of the anger is based on misunderstanding of the plot, and a stubborn insistence that "it makes no sense"

[Red Viking]

What I want to know is the following: When customers pointed out all the flaws and plotholes that existed in Mass Effect: Deception, it was deemed appropriate to revise the entire novel. So why is it that the artistic integrity.argument is suddenly being used when customers point out all the flaws and plotholes in the ending to Mass Effect 3 and ask for change as well?

[Kanon777]

Red Viking wrote...

What I want to know is the following: When customers pointed out all the flaws and plotholes that existed in Mass Effect: Deception, it was deemed appropriate to revise the entire novel. So why is it that the artistic integrity.argument is suddenly being used when customers point out all the flaws and plotholes in the ending to Mass Effect 3 and ask for change as well?

They said they would make a new edition that fixes the writting problems with Deception, not make a new book. The people here want an enterily new ending that removes all the content that they find "offensive"

[PrinceLionheart]

bleetman wrote...

Again. It's Gamespot. They have all the journalistic integrity of roadkill. I'd consider being slammed by them as some kind of badge of honour.

Yeah, they really shouldn't talk about "selling out" and caving to pressure after that fiasco with Jeff Gertsmann.

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 22 mars 2012 - 10:39 .

[Insane_Ivan]

Eski.Moe wrote...

Damned if they do. Damned if they don't.

Agreed,  But bioware will win the support of a lot of hardcore fans.  It is like a choice in Mass Effect.  Agree with gamestop = renegade.  Support the Fans  = Paragon.

-Hold The Line

[phouria]

Wise Men wrote...

I posted this in another forum earlier:
_______________________________________________________
I hope Bioware changes the endings because then I can start a petition to get the endings of other games changed that I didn't like.

For example:

1. Splinter Cell Conviction (The ending was too sad. I wanted Sam to return to the agency and after playing the Spinter Cell series for 5 games, I deserve to have the ending I want because I am so invested in the character).
2. Heavy Rain (They promised my choices would determine the endings and it's interactive, so I should be able to create the ending I want. I wanted an ending where the mother was the serial killer not the one they game me)
3. Alan Wake, Flower, and Journey (to vague...not enough details...no clear answers or closure...too many plot holes).
4. Super Mario Brothers (after all of that, all I get is a "thank you" from the princess c'mon what a letdown!)
5. Uncharted 1 and 2 (they added a magical or supernatural aspect to it at the very end. I didn't like that. It's inconsistent with the world)
6. Halo 3 (They promised that I was going to "Finish the Fight" but they lied because now they are making Halo 4.)

Anyway let's hope Bioware changes Mass Effect 3's ending, because I have a long list of games that could benefit from this precedent.

lol.

well... changing Raiden out of MGS2 is actually a good thing tho.

[Accism]

tobito113 wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

What I want to know is the following: When customers pointed out all the flaws and plotholes that existed in Mass Effect: Deception, it was deemed appropriate to revise the entire novel. So why is it that the artistic integrity.argument is suddenly being used when customers point out all the flaws and plotholes in the ending to Mass Effect 3 and ask for change as well?

They said they would make a new edition that fixes the writting problems with Deception, not make a new book. The people here want an enterily new ending that removes all the content that they find "offensive"

I fail to see how these aren't the same thing. The book was released, people didn't like parts of it, they're going to fix those parts, leaving the rest intact. Mass Effect 3 was released, people didn't like parts of it, they're (hopefully!) going to fix those parts, leaving the rest intact. This is exactly the same thing.

[SimonM72]

Who wins? - The Mass Effect franchise wins because it makes sense and is of a higher quality - thus Bioware/EA wins....and yes, we as the fans win.

I don't have a word for how naive and shortsighted that Gamespot article is.

Modifié par SimonM72, 22 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[Ravenmyste]

how is it being spineless there sticking to there guns, and not changing the endings only giving you epilogue to what happened and to make you understand the endings better,

they haven't said anything else about how much the dlc is I THINK THAT guy is the spineless coward since bio-ware wont change there ending for a "happy ending"

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 22 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[Kanon777]

Accism wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

What I want to know is the following: When customers pointed out all the flaws and plotholes that existed in Mass Effect: Deception, it was deemed appropriate to revise the entire novel. So why is it that the artistic integrity.argument is suddenly being used when customers point out all the flaws and plotholes in the ending to Mass Effect 3 and ask for change as well?

They said they would make a new edition that fixes the writting problems with Deception, not make a new book. The people here want an enterily new ending that removes all the content that they find "offensive"

I fail to see how these aren't the same thing. The book was released, people didn't like parts of it, they're going to fix those parts, leaving the rest intact. Mass Effect 3 was released, people didn't like parts of it, they're (hopefully!) going to fix those parts, leaving the rest intact. This is exactly the same thing.

The diference is that only minor plot problems (like the asari praying to GOD) will be fixed, it still going to feature Kai-leng being a badass and killing everyone from the books.

People here want to eliminate the GodChild, the tree ending choices, the destruction of the relays, the reason for the reapers actions and etc, sheppard's death and the lack of LI riding in the sunset (there was a poll about this and most people WANT an ending like that). That is a complete rewrite of the plot of the ending, the book edition only fixes minor stuff.


Again, im not exatcly against it either way, but lets make good arguments please

[AxisEvolve]

Gamespot is spineless since they're afraid to post critical reviews in case they end up getting fired (via angry letter from the publisher).

[Accism]

I hope Bioware changes the endings because then I can start a petition to get the endings of other games changed that I didn't like.

For example:

1. Splinter Cell Conviction (The ending was too sad. I wanted Sam to return to the agency and after playing the Spinter Cell series for 5 games, I deserve to have the ending I want because I am so invested in the character).
2. Heavy Rain (They promised my choices would determine the endings and it's interactive, so I should be able to create the ending I want. I wanted an ending where the mother was the serial killer not the one they game me)
3. Alan Wake, Flower, and Journey (to vague...not enough details...no clear answers or closure...too many plot holes).
4. Super Mario Brothers (after all of that, all I get is a "thank you" from the princess c'mon what a letdown!)
5. Uncharted 1 and 2 (they added a magical or supernatural aspect to it at the very end. I didn't like that. It's inconsistent with the world)
6. Halo 3 (They promised that I was going to "Finish the Fight" but they lied because now they are making Halo 4.)

Anyway let's hope Bioware changes Mass Effect 3's ending, because I have a long list of games that could benefit from this precedent.

What a terrible scenario you have envisioned! A world where video game creators actually deliver on their promises and listen to what people want! Who would want to live in such an awful distopian nightmare world 

Modifié par Accism, 22 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[Kanon777]

Accism wrote...

I hope Bioware changes the endings because then I can start a petition to get the endings of other games changed that I didn't like.

For example:

1. Splinter Cell Conviction (The ending was too sad. I wanted Sam to return to the agency and after playing the Spinter Cell series for 5 games, I deserve to have the ending I want because I am so invested in the character).
2. Heavy Rain (They promised my choices would determine the endings and it's interactive, so I should be able to create the ending I want. I wanted an ending where the mother was the serial killer not the one they game me)
3. Alan Wake, Flower, and Journey (to vague...not enough details...no clear answers or closure...too many plot holes).
4. Super Mario Brothers (after all of that, all I get is a "thank you" from the princess c'mon what a letdown!)
5. Uncharted 1 and 2 (they added a magical or supernatural aspect to it at the very end. I didn't like that. It's inconsistent with the world)
6. Halo 3 (They promised that I was going to "Finish the Fight" but they lied because now they are making Halo 4.)

Anyway let's hope Bioware changes Mass Effect 3's ending, because I have a long list of games that could benefit from this precedent.

What a terrible scenario you have envisioned! A world where video game creators actually deliver on their promises and listen to what people want! Who would want to live in such an awful distopian nightmare world 

You forgot uncharted 3 

My fear is another, that suddenly  "the angry mob" and "i speak the loudest therefore im right" becomes the way developers take feedback from fans. Keeping your promiss is fine (obviously) but when a community acts like **** they shouldnt be pandered. (not that im talking about everyone here, but some people are getting really crazy especially on this forums)

[Accism]

tobito113 wrote...

My fear is another, that suddenly  "the angry mob" and "i speak the loudest therefore im right" becomes the way developers take feedback from fans. Keeping your promiss is fine (obviously) but when a community acts like **** they shouldnt be pandered. (not that im talking about everyone here, but some people are getting really crazy especially on this forums)

Maybe it's because I'm not usually involved in internet communities but I don't really see how the way the argument is made is relevent to what the argument itself is. If people's concerns are valid, which Bioware have admitted they are, then it doesn't really matter if a few of them are "acting like ****" as you put it. That's a forums moderation problem, but it shouldn't play into whether or not the underlying issue needs to be addressed. I agree that internet culture has a lot of issues with how we discuss things, but dismissing people's arguments because some of them are poorly argued seems like a very bad precedent to set too.

And really, it's nothing new for popular demand to play a role in media. Creative endevours (call it "art", if you like) have always been about feedback and conversation between creators and audience. Arthur Conan Doyle brought back Sherlock Holmes after he killed him off due to fans wanting more stories, and went on to write Hounds of the Baskervilles, what is usually considered to be one of the best Holmes stories. There are dozens of other examples. Creativity is not a one way street, and it never has been.

[AlanC9]

tobito113 wrote...
People here want to eliminate the GodChild, the tree ending choices, the destruction of the relays, the reason for the reapers actions and etc, sheppard's death and the lack of LI riding in the sunset (there was a poll about this and most people WANT an ending like that). That is a complete rewrite of the plot of the ending, the book edition only fixes minor stuff.

Most people voting in the poll, anyway. 

I miss the good old days when the BSN's collective opinion was that designing games to appease the masses was a very bad thing.

[Gatt9]

Red Viking wrote...

What I want to know is the following: When customers pointed out all the flaws and plotholes that existed in Mass Effect: Deception, it was deemed appropriate to revise the entire novel. So why is it that the artistic integrity.argument is suddenly being used when customers point out all the flaws and plotholes in the ending to Mass Effect 3 and ask for change as well?

It's simple.

Gamespot and the other major sites got caught reviewing Advertisers and not the game,  combined with the Skyrim PS3 debacle,  we have ample proof that the Gaming Press is effectively useless to consumers.  People will quit looking at their reviews,  traffic will drop.

So the sites are waging a war to try to sway public opinion to save themselves.  If they can convince people that the false-advertising doesn't matter,  and that their reviews were ok,  they could survive.

But they won't,  they're burying themselves.  The takeaway most people will get from this is that even if they were objective,  they're unable to generate a decent review.  Much like EA's silence on issues,  their noise is just making their problems much worse.

We're witnessing a major shift in public opinion,  the gaming sites are waging a war to try to defend their habit of reviewing advertisers instead of games,  and they've already lost.  This is the turning point in the "Review controversy" that's been brewing the past few years. 

[Kanon777]

Accism wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

My fear is another, that suddenly  "the angry mob" and "i speak the loudest therefore im right" becomes the way developers take feedback from fans. Keeping your promiss is fine (obviously) but when a community acts like **** they shouldnt be pandered. (not that im talking about everyone here, but some people are getting really crazy especially on this forums)

Maybe it's because I'm not usually involved in internet communities but I don't really see how the way the argument is made is relevent to what the argument itself is. If people's concerns are valid, which Bioware have admitted they are, then it doesn't really matter if a few of them are "acting like ****" as you put it. That's a forums moderation problem, but it shouldn't play into whether or not the underlying issue needs to be addressed. I agree that internet culture has a lot of issues with how we discuss things, but dismissing people's arguments because some of them are poorly argued seems like a very bad precedent to set too.

And really, it's nothing new for popular demand to play a role in media. Creative endevours (call it "art", if you like) have always been about feedback and conversation between creators and audience. Arthur Conan Doyle brought back Sherlock Holmes after he killed him off due to fans wanting more stories, and went on to write Hounds of the Baskervilles, what is usually considered to be one of the best Holmes stories. There are dozens of other examples. Creativity is not a one way street, and it never has been.

I believe that pandering to bad behaviour is a very badway to build a community (again not talking about everyone). And althoug im waiting for this "clarifications" DLC i understand where the gamespot comment about spineless is coming from. I wouldnt go as far as calling them spineless but i worry about what this will bring to the future...

[Kanon777]

AlanC9 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
People here want to eliminate the GodChild, the tree ending choices, the destruction of the relays, the reason for the reapers actions and etc, sheppard's death and the lack of LI riding in the sunset (there was a poll about this and most people WANT an ending like that). That is a complete rewrite of the plot of the ending, the book edition only fixes minor stuff.

Most people voting in the poll, anyway. 

I miss the good old days when the BSN's collective opinion was that designing games to appease the masses was a very bad thing.