68 réponses à ce sujet

[Elanareon]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

I can see your point in a sense (there's only one way to get fourth tier spells and that's by getting the same 3 prior spells that you've used 100 times) but the replayability isn't solely limited to combat.

I mean let's face it, you can't play two radically different sword and board warriors: they'll be quite similar. But you can play a 2hander, sword and board, dual wielding or an archer + try out 4 different specializations. With some of the specializations (atleast for Mage/Rogue) you can radically change your playstyle. (Eg Ranger versus an Assassin, or a Arcane Warrior is radically different from a Shapeshifter)

Plus the dialogue branches off in so many different ways and the different origins do change quite a bit in the game world.


I do agree with you about Lockpicking. This extends to Stealth a bit as well but just the way the icons are designed you can tell they were originally skills that were forced onto a Rogue. The Rogue has 16 talents (that are required for the Accomplished Rogue achievement) whilst Mage has 4 and Warrior only has 8. I reckon that originally Stealth/Lockpicking were skills but Bio decided they didn't want Mage's/Warriors picking locks and using Stealth.


imo, they should have made certain skills class locked... or increased the Cunning requirements on "Rogue-like" skills.

Nope you don't need all 16 skills for the achievement. I got them without getting all 16 but i don't know what you need for it. I think it's the stealth because when i maxxed out my stealth i got the achievement.

[Staggart]

In reference to some of the posts earlier... I never said that I have played through the game three times... I merely said that about halfway through the game becomes bogged down due to the linear progression of the skills. I love the quests/dialogues/different options, but the game is rooted around the combat and leveling up. That IS the point of the game, and that is where, imo, the game lacks re playability. Sure, I can use the respec mod and change alister to a ranged warrior but that does little for me since the skills are boring and feels more of a chore to progress through. Sure I could change around my strategy to attempt to have fun but I do not want to look for a new way to have fun. I want to be able to pick up a game and play it for what it is. Now that I think of it, the failure of the skill tree is that there are always only 3 classes and in essence all of them have the same skills if you want them to. They all come from the same pool.



I see some people knocking BG2, but what made that game great is that you could create classes that were completely unique to the character. Most classes were not able to be found throughout the game allowing you have a new play through every time, automatically, without having to change how you play the game.

[Volourn]

"I see some people knocking BG2, but what made that game great is that you could create classes that were completely unique to the character."



Huh?

[Volourn]

"I like DA:O more than both Baldur's Gates but they were by no means bad games. I have also replayed BG1 & 2 far more than I will DA:O."



Hi, my name is Volourn. Please don't hint at me hating BG2. That is far from the truth. I love BG2 just fine.

[toronto13]

It took me 119 hours to finish my first playthrough,this is third time in my life(before it was KOTOR and Mass Effect)to finish some game without taking break from it and it is first time in my life for me to start the same game all over again,day after I manage to finish it ,my first playthrough was human noble(warrior) now I am playing city elf(rogue this time).......and I love it,the amount of fun that I get from his game is same like the day I started to play DA for the first time,for me this is the best game ever made.

[Setz69]

Honestly, my biggest beef with play through's (done it twice already, starting to get bored) is that there's no variance. Yes you pick an origin and do an awesome intro, but you end up in ostagar again, you go through the same elf forest, dwarf mountain, mage tower, and redcliff as always.



Than your ending is the only other option for variance. The rest is all two way choices, so if you play through twice your done .



I think they really should do more with the origins. Resolve some of the PC's problems in a sidequest instead of just the npc's. I would have loved to resolve some issues from my origins.

[Staggart]

Volourn wrote...

"I see some people knocking BG2, but what made that game great is that you could create classes that were completely unique to the character."

Huh?

I did word that poorly.  IN BG2 you were able to select classes for your build that were not found in the game.  This made it so if you wanted to try that class, you had to play through multiple times. 

[Titius.Vibius]

I'm tired playing Dragon Age now. I only finished it twice but doing it all over again is such a chore. Installed D2 instead and now reminiscing what would it be like if D3 comes out next year, hopefully.

[Eurypterid]

The main story arc is, of course, the same, but I'm finding my second run of the game as a Rogue (first was a mage) is almost as much fun as the first. The way I have to approach battles and some of the decisions I make is totally different. And I'm using different companions this time, which means I get to hear different banter and explore different back stories (I stuck with Leliana, Morrigan, and Alistair as much as possible last time. This time staying with Dog, Shale, and Wynne). Not sure how much of a difference a warrior would be from the Rogue, but I'm going to give that a go as well.

[Trajan60]

Staggart wrote...

Sorry about the other thread...

The problem for me is the skill progression and after 2-3 plays halfway through the game, the
skills get old despite their  differences they
become bland and linear.  

I strongly feel that a game like
this heavily relies on the mage class to promote replayablity. I
miss the old BG2 spell acquisition, and I wish that concept was
continued to DAO due to It allowing for a unique play through everytime.  Another
unique feature for BG2 was the ability to create 4 characters and have
them all in your party through the multiplayer function.  This allowed
for a completely new playthrough everytime (while loosing character
interaction).

I love DAO and the time I have spent with it, but
I believe that the skill system is a fatal flaw and creates a dead end
scenario in that it permenantly puts future mods and DLC at a
disadvantage.  I believe the tree system should have been an actual
tree, not a path.  In fact, I believe that any system other than 1,2,3,4 linear path would have been as good or better than the one that currently exists. IT is unfortunate since I believe that the game is great in every other category. 

I'm going to have to agree with this post. The skill trees are not so much trees as they are linear tree stumps. However, there is a multitude of choices within the overall list of skills that allows for a variety of spell choice in multiple playthroughs. Especially for Mages. One playthrough you can specialize as a Spirit Healer, another playthrough an Arcane Warrior. One playthrough you can put more points into entropy versus glyphs.

The bigger aspect that denies replay value is in storytelling. As I've played through different classes and origins, I've found there is little difference in overall plot and conversation choices aside from the origin you play out at the start of the game. NPC's may react differently depending on your origin, but overall the playthrough feels very similar. Even making different decisions utlimately leads you in the same direction. For example, I've now played through Redcliffe Castle twice and there was absolutely no difference to the overarching plot in your decision to either kill or release Jowan the Blood Mage. You're faced with the same decisions on how to solve Connor's problem.

[Trajan60]

Titius.Vibius wrote...

I'm tired playing Dragon Age now. I only finished it twice but doing it all over again is such a chore. Installed D2 instead and now reminiscing what would it be like if D3 comes out next year, hopefully.

Not to ****** in your Cheerios but Blizzard already confirmed D3 is not in the on-deck circle for 2010. SC2 is but not D3. They confirmed it for 2011, however.

[robertthebard]

I'm not having a problem finding replayability. Male and Female City Elf stories are the same, but different. Mage origin was different, and fun, and it was fun being a mage. Being a Dalish elf is different from being a city elf, and not just in origin stories. There are random dialog options that come up from time to time, in the strangest places, that lead to different results on "side quests". Can't be more specific.



The story is the same for all the origins once you finish them because that is the story of the game. If you didn't want to play the story, then you bought the wrong game. From reading some of these posts, it seems like FPS's are more their speed. You know, you just run around and find bigger and better weapons, until you find that particular FPS's version of the BFG, and then you go on. RPG's are about the story, and this one has a compelling story that can play out in so many different ways. The things you say, or don't say, do or don't do have consequences. If all one is going to do is roll a sword and board warrior every time, they are going to get bored, and fast. However, that won't be limited to just this game, but any CRPG, MMO or otherwise.

[Maria Caliban]

kelsjet wrote...

aberdash wrote...
I really don't think it was dumbed down. This is just what Bioware is capable of now.

Congratulations! You win this month's "Most retarded post of the month" award!

I think the comment was spot on.

Thank the forum gods for the user ignore feature. Welcome, you are the first on my list!

The ignore function only disables PMs the person might send you.

[Titius.Vibius]

Motivate me to play more.

[Trajan60]

Titius.Vibius wrote...

Motivate me to play more.

Like all things in life you must be a self motivator.

[sbatch101_]

Just finished my first time through as a rouge, took about 60 hrs. I will play again as an elf mage but, i'm not sure i'll finish though. For me it felt like 2 games. I was playing along, went thorough the origin story, became a gray warden and then lite the torch on the tower. At that moment I was thinking this game is awesome, i'm about to play the best rpg in my life but....



From that point on things went down hill. I was consumed with pointless quests I did'nt really care about and were boring.( not all but, most). I felt like the main story line disapeared and I was everyones errand boy for the next 30 hrs. Except for the dlc content which was very well done. Detemined to see it through I kept on.....



Then all of the suddened I got to the landsmeet and the game returned again, quests were fun, important and felt like they had consequences again. There seemed to be important choices at every turn, great cut scenes to advance the story and a real epic feel had returned. From there I finished the game happily and was hungry for more.



The question is more of what? The game felt to me that they made a great 30 hr rpg and then through in 30 hrs of filler so people would'nt complain it was to short. So do I play again and trudge through the middle of the game for the rewards on both ends or do i wait for some mods and new dlc to distract me from the middle of the game?



Well as I already said I will go through again and I will do it again probably when some more mods and dlc come out, because at the end of the day I got 30 hrs of rpg on par with all the other stuff out there (the middle) and I got 30 hrs of the best rpg I've ever played imo. So as far as replay value I think it's there and will only get better with mods and dlc.

[sbatch101_]

Just finished my first time through as a rouge, took about 60 hrs. I will play again as an elf mage but, i'm not sure i'll finish though. For me it felt like 2 games. I was playing along, went thorough the origin story, became a gray warden and then lite the torch on the tower. At that moment I was thinking this game is awesome, i'm about to play the best rpg in my life but....



From that point on things went down hill. I was consumed with pointless quests I did'nt really care about and were boring.( not all but, most). I felt like the main story line disapeared and I was everyones errand boy for the next 30 hrs. Except for the dlc content which was very well done. Detemined to see it through I kept on.....



Then all of the suddened I got to the landsmeet and the game returned again, quests were fun, important and felt like they had consequences again. There seemed to be important choices at every turn, great cut scenes to advance the story and a real epic feel had returned. From there I finished the game happily and was hungry for more.



The question is more of what? The game felt to me that they made a great 30 hr rpg and then through in 30 hrs of filler so people would'nt complain it was to short. So do I play again and trudge through the middle of the game for the rewards on both ends or do i wait for some mods and new dlc to distract me from the middle of the game?



Well as I already said I will go through again and I will do it again probably when some more mods and dlc come out, because at the end of the day I got 30 hrs of rpg on par with all the other stuff out there (the middle) and I got 30 hrs of the best rpg I've ever played imo. So as far as replay value I think it's there and will only get better with mods and dlc.

[0mar]

The biggest problem for me is that all the battles play out the same. There is not much room for tactical planning when your options are limited to one of three viable options.



The main quests all have two ways to do them. The good way and the less-good way. Only one quest has a truly evil option in it and even that option is sorta justified. The only reason I'd play again is to try out a different romance. And maybe playing it on easy and selecting the sub-par characters (eg all of them except Morrigan/Wynne) and hearing their small-talk banter.



IMO, Bioware should have included a very evil option for all the main quests. I usually play through most RPG games twice, once as a Paladin and another as a Blackguard. Fallout 3 was great about this, just about every quest had an evil option (sometimes two or three!). Nuking Megaton, slaving kids, and all sorts of other nasty acts was great fun. Some guy yapping on and on about doing a FedEx quest? How about you just blow his head off and take the reward. Now, I'm not saying that Bioware should have let me kill any and all NPCs, but a truly evil option would have really upp'ed the replay value for a lot of people.

[ServiTemplari]

I too have quickly lost interest in this game, which I'm really surprised about, given all the whooplah about how awesome it was supposed to be.



1) I'm pretty disappointed with the talent system since I often see little logic in the 4-part talent lines.

2) I'm disappointed with the combat system since I constantly feel the need to pause and micro manage my teammates, due in part to the many abilities that require microing since the AI isn't sophisticated enough to even make Rogues automatically move into backstab position on their own. Then there are all the AOE Mage talents that require microing so you don't hit your own guys, etc.

3) The darkspawn invasion takes it's cues from you. It won't move on Denerim until you're ready for it to do so, so there's no tension.

4) Mages are too important because they're the only class with enough AOE talents to deal with the majority of combat you'll face in which you are often significantly outnumbered.

5) There is often only the illusion of choice in the game. You can have a conversation with 6 different responses, but no matter which you pick, the NPC's response will be the same and there will be no change in reward/outcome.

6) The only story variety is in the first hour or so with the different Origin stories. Once you get to Ostagar, there's extremely little variety. The only variety I see if self-imposed by your choices to do or not do the side quests. HOW you do them doesn't seem to matter, or there just isn't an option to really do them differently.



Back to Fallout 3 I guess... I'm taking ME2 off my purchase list.

[Calara]

Volourn wrote...

This game is highly replayable. Way more replayable than that garbage game known as BG2. The game can change a great deal easily unlike BG2.

The end game changes in so many ways it is ridiculous. The whole different way to make characters in DA i shuge while in BG2 a fighter is a fighter is a fighter. *yawn*

BG2. BG2 Never Changes.

LONG LIVE DA! DEATH TO BG2!

I will have to totally disagree with you there. I completed DA as a warrior and I got about 2/3 of the way through as a rogue, but just lost interest in playing any more as there were only a few minor differences in the second play through (aside from the different origin stories). I went through the different origin stories, and while interesting, I felt no incentive to play through the rest of the game as those characters.
 
With regard to character creation differences, DA doesnt hold a candle to BG2. In DA you can make 3 melee  variations of warriors, a rogue, an archer, and different spell choice mages. Due to the way the combat engine works in DA, most of the melee warriors play much the same (blow your stamina load and then auto/attack for the rest of the fight). With two mages in the party you can see all the different spell combinations, so there is no real reason to play through as a mage again.

With BG2, you had all the single classes, but you could also multi class as demi-humans (elves, dwarves etc), or dual class as a human. Using your example, a standard fighter was nothing like a fighter/mage, fighter/rogue, fighter/cleric etc. Not only that, but you had the option of playing through with a full 6 man party made up of all your own characters.

The first time I completed BG2 i did so with my human paladin I had transferred over from BG1. I also played it as a multi-class elven fighter/mage, a human dual class fighter/thief and a single class mage. I also played it through again with a 6 man party I made up of my own characters rather than the npcs. Also having more characters in the party left more room for support characters like bards.

Dragon Age was a fun game, but it felt a lot more shallow than BG2. It just felt there was a lot less detail to the game (I guess because of the game rules being based on DnD), and I was largely unimpressed with melee combat and item progression for all classes. The skill system was painfully shallow, and by higher level, all class types picked up all the same kind of talents.

[Aidunno]

Real test will be if you pick this game out of the closet in a year's time, not having another go immediately after completion.

Modifié par Aidunno, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:24 .

[blazin130791]

fact is in this day and age with the game industry as it is we will never get another BG, a true succesor that gives us everyhting we want and more. I agree with your points but still say DA is more re-playable than other games.

[wanderon]

The game is only going to be replayable more than a time or two if you are willing to give basic combat and battles a back seat to engagement in the storyline, world, and how your chosen character is going to interact with it this time. In other words if you are willing to roleplay your way through.



There are certainly a wide variety of different options in that respect including:



1) the type of class you choose (3 choices)

2) the origin background (6 choices)

3) the basic alignment of your character as related to the world (many different nuances possible here depending on your characters class/race/origin and general outlook)

4) your gender and/or sexual orientation

5) the characters you choose to have with you and how you treat them (too many choices to calculate)



If you are willing to set aside the whole min/max optomize everyone and instead make the stat and talent and skill choices for each party member to fit with the way the character presents itself to you and then choose your companions based on how their characters relate to the character you are choosing to play this time I can certainly see enough variety to take me through any number of interesting and fun replays.



If the only goal as someone put it earlier is simply to beat the combat in the game and level up then yes after you've done that you are finished but if the goal is to let your character play out a new and different story with different choices and different companions who may also make different choices - if you befreind one this time and run them off next time if you save the _____ this time and kill _____ the next, if you embrace the chantry this time and hate it the next if you are willing to actually place yourself in the game and allow both your character and your companions be less than perfect optomized killing machines and instead allow them to be imperfect flawed characters with a little bit of soul then perhaps you will find enough replay value to last until DA:O 2 arrives in a couple years.

[blazin130791]

Wel, it would seem the leader of our little group has impregnated the impressionable circus child. And here I thought she was merely getting chubby without the ring master's whip to keep her in shape.

[Diva]

Well... I can't even seem to finish the game once. I think I'm about 75 % done, and I just don't have the urge to play anymore.