364 réponses à ce sujet

[Klijpope]

double post

Modifié par Klijpope, 23 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[Militarized]

Klijpope wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Everything that makes the Mass Effect universe work is based on Reaper technology.
You can't just throw it out. It doesn't work, it's creatively bankrupt and malicious.

No it isn't. Element Zero was not invented by reapers. Only the relay network that existed. Aethyta muses on building "our own relays" in ME2.

It has to be thrown out. That's been a lingering theme since ME1, and of course it still works. It is not the relay network that makes the ME universe what it is. They're just a more intriguing version of jump gates at one level, an existential trap at the other. The universe is made up of krogan, asari, turians, and so on. It is made up by it's history.

This is the end of the Roman Empire, not Year Zero.

Creatively bankrupt is rather strong and a matter of taste anyway. Malicious? . Was Tolkien malicious when destroying the One Ring also diminished the elves and especially the wise ones, the Galadriels and the Gandalfs, and so they passed on to the West, and a new age dawns? That's a better comparison.

That is a fair comparison yet not exactly the same. The end of the Roman Empire was counter-weighed by other areas of the world having a renaissance in The Middle East and Asia long before Europe recovered. In fact we only had our own because the the Arabs SAVED the previous technology/information from the Greeks and built up from that. 

It's also already been stated in the game that intergalactic travel is impossible without Relays... so we would be forced to build our own. The Problem is even if you build one relay, you have to have another to connect to it... and if intergalactic travel is impossible? Good luck with that. 

In Mass Effect, from the viewpoint of the Star Gazer scene... that isn't what's going to happen. Everyone and everything is in ruin, which would be fine if the technology existed to build back up but judging by the fact that 10k years in the future they haven't even obtained space flight again.... that paints a depressing, bleak picture. Sure they might be happy in their new found ignorance but it isn't comparable to the Elves/Gandalf.. don't they choose to leave? This is like someone just came and shot them all in the head to get it over with, while erasing all their previous wisdom/knowledge. 

Modifié par Militarized, 23 mars 2012 - 01:17 .

[Tleining]

Klijpope wrote...

No it isn't. Element Zero was not invented by reapers. Only the relay network that existed. Aethyta muses on building "our own relays" in ME2.

uh, Hawkings is talking about flying through Black Holes, i very much doubt we will be doing that in the near future

It has to be thrown out. That's been a lingering theme since ME1, and of course it still works. It is not the relay network that makes the ME universe what it is. They're just a more intriguing version of jump gates at one level, an existential trap at the other. The universe is made up of krogan, asari, turians, and so on. It is made up by it's history.

uh, without the Relays, the existing civilizations couldn't exist, that was made very clear. Pureblood Asari can turn out to be Ardat Yakshi, which is possibly why the stigma of Purebloods came around. Without Relays, that's going to be a Problem.

This is the end of the Roman Empire, not Year Zero.

That's the Point. Welcome to the Dark Age.

Creatively bankrupt is rather strong and a matter of taste anyway. Malicious? . Was Tolkien malicious when destroying the One Ring also diminished the elves and especially the wise ones, the Galadriels and the Gandalfs, and so they passed on to the West, and a new age dawns? That's a better comparison.

Correct me if i'm wrong. But they went more or less willingly. The People in the ME-Universe were fighting for their future. For their loved ones on distant Planets, they'll now never see again. That's not bittersweet. And it's not widely different. It's ... pretty weak.

[Tocquevillain]

The Angry One wrote...

Klijpope wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Where you see Brave New Galaxy I see New Galactic Dark Age, if they haven't recovered after 10k years... I can only imagine most if not all the tech is destroyed and they are dealing with the ignorant struggles we had to deal with before getting to the stars all over again.

Yes there were issues with galactic politics but there are so many more issues that that technology and cooperation had or were fixing... ugh... all this is seriously ruining Mass Effect for me. Reset buttons are SO cliche and dumb.

I despise technological resets.
You know who tried that in real life? Pol Pot. Yeah that worked out so well didn't it?

A 'reset' implies the story arc went awry or new producers came and did different things. Examples, SeaQuest DSV and Andromeda (neither's story in the same league as Mass Effect).

Reset contnues story in different direction, or obliviates previous story to tell new one with same characters, like the endless Marvel/DC resets.

Resets have no consequences. This does. We're debating them.

This is the end. The conclusion. They chose a transformation motif. Everything can change, because the story is over. It is a valid intention.

Pol Pot is hardly that relevant. 

Pol Pot's regime tried to restart Cambodia from the year zero. Literally. Many suffered and died toiling without any modern technology or medicine.
It's relevant to the concept of the technological reset, also abused in such sci-fi as Battlestar Galactica and The Day the Earth Stood Still remake.
It's a malicious and ruinous way to end a story, using the concept of "clean slates" to somehow justify the incredible amounts of anguish and death this will cause  to a society.
In Mass Effect's case destroying the relay when most civilised star systems are already in chaos is a death sentence.

As opposed to every advanced species suffering incredible (and TOTAL) amounts of anguish and death at the hands of the Reapers? What are you smoking, bra, did you play ME1? Or 2? Or 3? 

[Sporothrix]

DiegoRaphael wrote...

I don't know if it has been comented here.

But i remember reading here on BSN, that Javik at some point, says that the Asari had Hair in the past, but then they started mating with lizards. Which also explain their skin.

Would something like that be possible to happen between human/asari? But just thinking that the only Asari in there was Liara... Damn...

He had to sell BS there (and propably spoke about Salarians which he called lizards before, which asari didn't know then), because on those ancient paintings from time when Asari knew what Protheans look like (so around 50 000 years ago), Asari were already showed in modern way. And Protheans couldn't know Asari for more than maybe a couple thousand years.

And when it comes to that ending, like i said, it's not stated that kid is human/asari hybrid, just that it is ambiguous if it's asari or human. "Grandpa" (which was in quotes in script) has nothing to do with it.

If this is Normandy's inbred colony, it's reasonable to think that there are both asari and human populations in it.

[RunAway ItzJack]

Asari do not work that way! Good night!

[Militarized]

In case you were all wondering...

http://i.imgur.com/3D9ST.jpg

Oh look, it says right there "Crucible will cause galactic dark age". GG... and it doesn't say a specific ending, it says "crucible" as in, no matter what you pick.

Modifié par Militarized, 23 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[RedChannels]

The Angry One wrote...

What? Obvious troll. Offspring of Asari and anyone are Asari.

Things can change in ten thousand years.

[Asnine112]

I just want to point (I just thought of this) that if the Rachni are still around.......well, the galactic recovery shouldn't take too too long.


edit: also, see post above. 10,000 years is a fairly long time in evolution

Modifié par Asnine112, 23 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[Militarized]

Asnine112 wrote...

I just want to point (I just thought of this) that if the Rachni are still around.......well, the galactic recovery shouldn't take too too long.


edit: also, see post above. 10,000 years is a fairly long time in evolution

What is too too long? It hasn't even been 2 thousand years for us since the Dark Ages and WE have achieved space flight and sent missions to mars.. *facepalm*. Oh god it's so bad... it's SSSOOO BBAADDD.  10k years and they haven't got space flight... it looks like the world is totally underdeveloped, it's specifically pictured that way. 

ME3 = the end of galactic civilization.. the end of the Mass Effect series. I can't believe they did that. 

[Asnine112]

Militarized wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

I just want to point (I just thought of this) that if the Rachni are still around.......well, the galactic recovery shouldn't take too too long.


edit: also, see post above. 10,000 years is a fairly long time in evolution

What is too too long? It hasn't even been 2 thousand years for us since the Dark Ages and WE have achieved space flight and sent missions to mars.. *facepalm*. Oh god it's so bad... it's SSSOOO BBAADDD.  10k years and they haven't got space flight... it looks like the world is totally underdeveloped, it's specifically pictured that way. 

ME3 = the end of galactic civilization.. the end of the Mass Effect series. I can't believe they did that. 

No need to get antagonistic there buddy. I think you misunderstood me. Given how Rachin are/function, it should take much, much less than 10,000 years to crawl out of the galactic dark age

[Adanu]

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what comes after this dark age. Star Wars only works because that franchise reinvents itself just enough to maintain the illusion of change.

Both Dragon Age and Mass Effect are trying to do real progress.

[Militarized]

Asnine112 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

I just want to point (I just thought of this) that if the Rachni are still around.......well, the galactic recovery shouldn't take too too long.


edit: also, see post above. 10,000 years is a fairly long time in evolution

What is too too long? It hasn't even been 2 thousand years for us since the Dark Ages and WE have achieved space flight and sent missions to mars.. *facepalm*. Oh god it's so bad... it's SSSOOO BBAADDD.  10k years and they haven't got space flight... it looks like the world is totally underdeveloped, it's specifically pictured that way. 

ME3 = the end of galactic civilization.. the end of the Mass Effect series. I can't believe they did that. 

No need to get antagonistic there buddy. I think you misunderstood me. Given how Rachin are/function, it should take much, much less than 10,000 years to crawl out of the galactic dark age

I wasn't being antagonistic, I was expressing my deep loathing and sincere displeasure with Biowares writers. 

That was actually part of my argument as well, it SHOULD take less then 10k years but if the Stargazer is 10k years in the future... it means they weren't able to repair/rebuild up to where they were -at all-. They are stuck on that planet and he specifically says "someday" they may get back up to the stars as if he's about to pat the child on the head because it's some fantastical idea and the story he just told is a myth. 

[ConradsLaces]

Militarized wrote...

In case you were all wondering...

http://i.imgur.com/3D9ST.jpg

Oh look, it says right there "Crucible will cause galactic dark age". GG... and it doesn't say a specific ending, it says "crucible" as in, no matter what you pick.

Wow... just... wow...

thank you.

[Asnine112]

Militarized wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

I just want to point (I just thought of this) that if the Rachni are still around.......well, the galactic recovery shouldn't take too too long.


edit: also, see post above. 10,000 years is a fairly long time in evolution

What is too too long? It hasn't even been 2 thousand years for us since the Dark Ages and WE have achieved space flight and sent missions to mars.. *facepalm*. Oh god it's so bad... it's SSSOOO BBAADDD.  10k years and they haven't got space flight... it looks like the world is totally underdeveloped, it's specifically pictured that way. 

ME3 = the end of galactic civilization.. the end of the Mass Effect series. I can't believe they did that. 

No need to get antagonistic there buddy. I think you misunderstood me. Given how Rachin are/function, it should take much, much less than 10,000 years to crawl out of the galactic dark age

I wasn't being antagonistic, I was expressing my deep loathing and sincere displeasure with Biowares writers. 

That was actually part of my argument as well, it SHOULD take less then 10k years but if the Stargazer is 10k years in the future... it means they weren't able to repair/rebuild up to where they were -at all-. They are stuck on that planet and he specifically says "someday" they may get back up to the stars as if he's about to pat the child on the head because it's some fantastical idea and the story he just told is a myth. 

Just saying....for all we know it could be, say, a remote planet on the other side of the galaxy from the Rachni located in some random nebula where it's hard to get ships into.

I specifically mention the Rachni because of all the cultures / races present in the universe, they would probably lose the least amount of....technological progress...simply because of how they function. So, if anything, the recovery of galactic civilization should take about how long it takes the Rachni to rebuild their infrastructure (100 years give or take? who knows) and then spread to the rest of the galaxy (like 1000 years max?)

[Militarized]

Asnine112 wrote...

Just saying....for all we know it could be, say, a remote planet on the other side of the galaxy from the Rachni located in some random nebula where it's hard to get ships into.

I specifically mention the Rachni because of all the cultures / races present in the universe, they would probably lose the least amount of....technological progress...simply because of how they function. So, if anything, the recovery of galactic civilization should take about how long it takes the Rachni to rebuild their infrastructure (100 years give or take? who knows) and then spread to the rest of the galaxy (like 1000 years max?)

We don't even know if they survive honestly. We still don't know if the Relays supernova 2/3 times or 3/3 times or if they'll retcon their own lore. Technically an explosion like that that you can see from outside the galaxy would have to be capable of tremendous damage no matter what... but I digress. 

You make a fair point about the Rachni but we honestly don't know much about them... and the only reason they entered the galactic stage is because of the Mass Relays, someone opening it up. The Rachni didn't bother to open it up themselves... did they not have the capability? Or do they not bother and isolate themselves in a star system? Who knows... the Queen says she's going to disappear forever again anyway once the Reapers are gone I thought. Intergalactic travel is also impossible according to Nihilhus in the beginning of the game without the Mass Relays.... so they may not find anyone to help anyway. 

I mean I suppose we MAY find out differently but it isn't looking to good at the moment. 

[blah64]

Not to mention the act that the kid was male......

[Asnine112]

Militarized wrote...

Asnine112 wrote...

Just saying....for all we know it could be, say, a remote planet on the other side of the galaxy from the Rachni located in some random nebula where it's hard to get ships into.

I specifically mention the Rachni because of all the cultures / races present in the universe, they would probably lose the least amount of....technological progress...simply because of how they function. So, if anything, the recovery of galactic civilization should take about how long it takes the Rachni to rebuild their infrastructure (100 years give or take? who knows) and then spread to the rest of the galaxy (like 1000 years max?)

We don't even know if they survive honestly. We still don't know if the Relays supernova 2/3 times or 3/3 times or if they'll retcon their own lore. Technically an explosion like that that you can see from outside the galaxy would have to be capable of tremendous damage no matter what... but I digress. 

You make a fair point about the Rachni but we honestly don't know much about them... and the only reason they entered the galactic stage is because of the Mass Relays, someone opening it up. The Rachni didn't bother to open it up themselves... did they not have the capability? Or do they not bother and isolate themselves in a star system? Who knows... the Queen says she's going to disappear forever again anyway once the Reapers are gone I thought. Intergalactic travel is also impossible according to Nihilhus in the beginning of the game without the Mass Relays.... so they may not find anyone to help anyway. 

I mean I suppose we MAY find out differently but it isn't looking to good at the moment. 

This entire discussion hinges on assuming that the relays dont supernova all the system's they're in into oblivion.

As for the Rachni....according to the codex they were spacefaring, and advanced enough to beat back the combined might of the Turians / Salarians / Asari before they uplifted the Krogan. So they're pretty advanced. I'm also fairly certain that the Rachni wouldn't abandon the galaxy, especially given how they helped that random Asari in ME2. 

Regarding non-relay galactic travel - it's certaintly possible. It's just that none of the ships currently are designed for it (after all, why bother when you can just use the relays?) If you can have a ship travel at, what, 12 LY/day (?), it's feasible, you would just need to map out portions  of the galaxy (something they never bothered to do because of the existence of the relay network). And presumably, since the Rachni are fairly intelligent, they could make improvements

[wathc me tyep]

10 000 years is a lot of time. We can't possible know what happens if humans and asari continue to live together for 10 000 years. So far the two races have been exposed for like what, 40 years?

[ArkenRennatta]

Ahh.. this is ****ing hilarious.

[mass_zotz]

This can't be true .....nah.........no no no no no NOOOOOOO!!!!!

[E5150_Julian]

IDK, it's just 10 Asari lifetimes so it shouldn't really change their entire species. Unless the kid is some kind of fluke incident. But no space travel in 10k years the Protheans created their own relay in a short time. This is either a major screw up or "LOTS OF SPECULATION"

[BeLana]

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

So, in 10,000 years we still don't have space travel? ****ing phenomenal.

What can I say, when my femshep breaks something it stays broke! Galactic dark age b*tches!!!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...I luv it lol...oh, my side...it hurts to breath rofl....

[Militarized]

Asnine112 wrote...

This entire discussion hinges on assuming that the relays dont supernova all the system's they're in into oblivion.

As for the Rachni....according to the codex they were spacefaring, and advanced enough to beat back the combined might of the Turians / Salarians / Asari before they uplifted the Krogan. So they're pretty advanced. I'm also fairly certain that the Rachni wouldn't abandon the galaxy, especially given how they helped that random Asari in ME2. 

Regarding non-relay galactic travel - it's certaintly possible. It's just that none of the ships currently are designed for it (after all, why bother when you can just use the relays?) If you can have a ship travel at, what, 12 LY/day (?), it's feasible, you would just need to map out portions  of the galaxy (something they never bothered to do because of the existence of the relay network). And presumably, since the Rachni are fairly intelligent, they could make improvements

We'll leave the supernova alone but I think it's obvious that their narrative/thematic point however is that NO ONE is rebuilding or rebuilt... it's done on purpose as a narrative reset button to "simpler times" or "a brave new world" as Walters wrote into his "LOTS OF SPECULATION" notes. 

Technically, they only fought because they were under Reaper control. Javik mentions the fact that the Rachni were around in his time... they seem to only be space faring when the Reapers need them to cause havoc from our circumstantial evidence. Their not really abandoning anything, they're just keeping themselves isolated... they're bugs, they don't care. It's a moot point anyway based on my next point. 

I'm sorry to tell you this but in the ME IP, intergalactic travel is just not possible with how they use FTL. I know the game shows it as just simple fuel but in the Codex what happens is the Eezo core builds up a magnetic charge, they need to dump that charge into a planet with a specific type of atmosphere or else the Core will inevitably overload and kill them all. The galaxy is HUGE and they have only explored 1% of the galaxy according to the Codex as well, there are no maps... that's not even going into the fact that Bioware wrote us into a new galactic dark age. I'm digressing, the point is, is that it's totally infeasible to have intergalactic travel... there simply aren't enough planets inbetween that are viable for the discharge let alone being able to find a planet AT ALL. It may be possible for them to do interstellar, systems that are really close to their system that they know are close... but traveling the way they have it in ME goes BYE BYE without the Relays. 

[HairyMadDog1010]

Has to be a misunderstanding, 10 lifetimes is not enough for Asari to undergo that type of change.
And considering we went from using animal power to spaceflight in 200 hundred years we should have had space flight by 10,000.

We could also be taking the grandfathers words out of context all he said is that the kid could maby do into space someday, maby they have space flight but the kid is to young to go.