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Unfair romance options? (something not about the ending for once)


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#1
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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I've always lauded BioWare for creating indepth romances and trying hard to make sure no one is "left out" regardless of their sexual preference.  The worlds they create where sexuality is simply a part of who you are and not up for public moral debate are worlds I'd frankly rather live in than RL Earth, sometimes.  I'm also not interested in one group getting more than another; I simply want it to be fair, and to be acknowledged that I'm just as valuable a member of this gaming community as everyone else. 

That being said, why is everyone who isn't a straight male still getting jipped? 

I only say this now because there's a massive amount of romance options in ME3.  Like, kind of a ridiculous amount.   In past games it's usually been two or three people, and so me (as a straight female) only being able to romance one person out of, say, three, wasn't that much of a sting.    But in ME3 there's no less than SIX available romance options for straight males.  Seriously?  Six?  Because the fugly news reporter is such an interesting character that extra time must be spent making her ravageable instead of possibly expanding other options?  Lesbian players have 3 options;  Straight female players have two (an awesome two, but only two, nonetheless) and Gay men have one. (cortez; I'm not sure if gay Kaiden is canon or not, but it doesn't look like he's romanceable for men in ME3? Could be wrong here.)

I'm curious as to how the break down for romance options became 6 options for straight men and half as much for everyone else.    I definitely think Bioware, with it's reputation for trying to play "fair" amongst it's gaming community, could do better here, especially since two of the romance options available to women are absolute complete fluff.  Really? With all these amazing characters I've gone to hell and back with, you think I'm even remotely interested in committing to some specialist I've just met?   And it's even worse if you want to play a lesbian FemShep, because your only really developed romance option is Liara; the other two are barely even notable  as they've just shown up for the final game. 

For those of you wanting to jump up and proclaim straight white male plantation owners (oops, I mean game owners) are a gross majority of gamers and that everyone else is in the fringes, here's where you're wrong:

http://static03.medi...ming-gender.png

This only covers gender. Doesn't cover sexual preferences.  The original PDF this comes from: http://www.theesa.co...ESA_EF_2011.pdf
 
Any thoughts? Did anyone actually play any of the tepid Diana Allers or Traynor romances that were offered and actually found the same level of satisfaction from them as any of the other cross-game romances?

Modifié par Short Cake Slayer, 22 mars 2012 - 07:49 .


#2
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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bump

#3
The Angry One

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Unfortunately while female gamers are significant and rising in number all the time, the gaming industry in general is still aimed at straight male gamers.
It's slowly changing and to their credit BioWare have done much more than most, but there'll be a disparity for quite a while yet.

#4
CronoDragoon

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I think it's a consequence of who became important to the story and who didn't. Realistically, everyone who didn't romance an ME1 character or Garrus/Tali got screwed.

#5
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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CronoDragoon wrote...

I think it's a consequence of who became important to the story and who didn't. Realistically, everyone who didn't romance an ME1 character or Garrus/Tali got screwed.


Pretty much ;) But  Kaiden and Ashley are romaceable (depending on your gender in game, I suspect) in ME3 if you didn't shack up with them in the first game.  But they've been there, involved in the story from the beginning.  I'm just wondering why this wasn't obvious to the writers.  Wouldn't a PC want to develop a relationship with a character that's actually paramount to the story (and thus would be more interesting just based on that) as opposed to random throw-away characters that are just there as support roles for one or two games?  They managed it with Chambers, where you could have a fling with her but nothing serious.  And that made sense to the plot; why would someone like Shepard get involved seriously (committed, like in ME3) with a woman he's just met?   Why did Jacob Taylor get thrown to the wind (admittedly his character in ME3 is absolute crap compared to what he was in ME2) when that may have been a great opportunity to nix the extra hours making your assistant or news broadcaster "doable" and instead spend it on making Jacob a permanent LI for ME3 as well?  

#6
FyreFlyeRush

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CronoDragoon wrote...

I think it's a consequence of who became important to the story and who didn't. Realistically, everyone who didn't romance an ME1 character or Garrus/Tali got screwed.


Ditto. I romanced Kaidan, and all I really wanted to do was rekindle that romance. My 15 year old wanted to romance Garrus in the first, and when she couldn't, she didn't romance anyone. So, she romanced him in the second, and continued that in the third.

Maybe it has something to do with the most popular romance choices being:

Kaidan/Ashley
Liara
Tali
Garrus

#7
CheeseEnchilada

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I wouldn't even count Diana Allers as a romance. She seems more like a fling.

But I don't think I'd be so irritated by the treatment of the straight female options if we didn't have so many in the first place. Not everyone is interested in Kaidan or Garrus, and cutting out both ME2 male interests doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It could be a matter of resources, since every ME2 romance that isn't Team Dextro gets shafted, but who thought it was a good idea to have Jacob cheat and no one bother to mourn Thane? I honestly felt like I had made the 'wrong' choice by having my Shepards pick those two romances and in a series that promotes choice and roleplaying, it was uncomfortable.

I admit that Samantha's romance bothered me too. It seemed like it wasn't made for lesbian gamers, but for guys who wanted to see girl on girl action. I like Samantha and all, but it's a bit off-putting.

I don't know. As someone who doesn't particularly care for the ME1 romance options or Team Dextro, I felt pushed aside. In the last game of a trilogy where we're saying goodbye to these characters, that's not a good feeling to have.

#8
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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FyreFlyeRush wrote...

Ditto. I romanced Kaidan, and all I really wanted to do was rekindle that romance. My 15 year old wanted to romance Garrus in the first, and when she couldn't, she didn't romance anyone. So, she romanced him in the second, and continued that in the third.

Maybe it has something to do with the most popular romance choices being:

Kaidan/Ashley
Liara
Tali
Garrus


Agree ;) I think they're the most interesting because their stories are not only imperative to major plotlines (the aliens more, the humans less so, I think, outside of their supporting role to you)  but they've also been around for all games. Kind of.  I was like you, I just wanted Kaiden back on board and didn't romance anyone in ME2, but I think Garrus' and Liaras romance make the most sense.  They're "with you all the way", after all, while Ashely and Kaiden mope about Cerberus in ME2 ;) 

But that being said...I mean, why? Why would a writer think that with all these great characters floating around someone would want to romance someone so undeveloped? Even Vega as a romance option would be preferrable.

#9
suusuuu

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I don't like how most of the femshep romances from previous games got screwed over. The only one you can genuinely continue is Garrus. Thane is ignored, Jacob reached someone else's prize and the romances you can start in this game are mostly lesbian with the exception of Kaidan.

Also, Kaidan is normally available for male Shepard as well as female.

#10
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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CheeseEnchilada wrote...


I admit that Samantha's romance bothered me too. It seemed like it wasn't made for lesbian gamers, but for guys who wanted to see girl on girl action. I like Samantha and all, but it's a bit off-putting.

I don't know. As someone who doesn't particularly care for the ME1 romance options or Team Dextro, I felt pushed aside. In the last game of a trilogy where we're saying goodbye to these characters, that's not a good feeling to have.


I kind of got that, too, about Traynor :unsure:  Which makes it kind of...icky.  

You do bring up a great point, too; Thane's romance was actually one I picked on another playthrough of ME2 and he was an amazing character.  And then he just kind of dies.  You don't even get a paramour achievement for all your hard work.  Sorry ladies, ME2 was just a do-over.    

#11
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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suusuuu wrote...

Also, Kaidan is normally available for male Shepard as well as female.


I wondered, but wasn't sure if it was player made material or not ;) Thanks for clearing it up! 

Modifié par Short Cake Slayer, 22 mars 2012 - 08:10 .


#12
suusuuu

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There's also the fact that 100% of love interests for male shepard look human.

For the female straight Shepard we get 50% non-human, one human and Jacob (eww)

#13
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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suusuuu wrote...

There's also the fact that 100% of love interests for male shepard look human.

For the female straight Shepard we get 50% non-human, one human and Jacob (eww)


LOL

I really love Garrus, but I do have a hard time getting over the whole dinosaur thing.  Still romanced him on a playthrough.  If I ever go through the games again I'm going to do an ME3 with him too.  He's definitely the best written romance available for straight females; such a great guy, and he's got your back the whole time! 

Appropriate way to balance out this problem, BioWare; in future games, Hanar romances for men. No exceptions.

#14
hazarkazra

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The only thing you're showing with that graph is that more woman play then underage boys. Unless you are trying to say this game is targeting teenage boys it's a pretty irrelevant graph.

#15
Verkir

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Not to bash your point but I would just like to point something out.

Mass Effect in general is(was) about your choices, however you choices were also influenced by the events around you, namely the characters. The crew of the Normandy isn't that large even across all 3 games. My point is that if you find yourself as a female gamer who wants a different kind of man/girl to romance well that is just part of the plot. Your Shepard is going to be lonely because you aren't around anyone you might be attracted to.

Now I know that sounds like a mega cop out and it partially is but the bottom line is while you pilot your own Shepard the game characters around you pilot "their" own lives. I for one as a straight male would have absolutely loved to romance traynor, she is smart, doesn't look like an inbred monkey and funny but i wadn't dealt that hand. :(

I do agree though that more romance options would be nice but logistically that just a nightmare, million of people play, you can't make everyone 100% happy.

Modifié par Verkir, 22 mars 2012 - 08:17 .


#16
Kismet

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I thought Traynor's come on came a bit out of left field too. It all felt very abrupt to me but maybe that was just because I wasn't expecting it.

Still, Bioware has got a whole lot better at romances for female characters. Back in BG2, female characters had a choice between Anomen and Anomen.

#17
MaYtriX

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As a homosexual female, I can't really complain with the amount of options set up for her.
The thing is, straight, gay, or bisexual, the male shep can romance a total of NINE characters, while femshep only gets the short end of the stick at just 6.
They turned kaidan bi-sexual spontaneously with no back story what so ever.
They really screwed femsheps on this one, but at the same time, males ARE the majority.
Also, that's not even counting all the male exclusive relationships from the second game that continued into the third, like miranda and jack, where thane and jacob both get the boot.

#18
LadyWench

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I see what you're saying here, as another straight female who always plays straight female characters (not because I have anything against anyone else--in fact, I'm happy the gay Shep movement got their wish in ME3--it's just more that I tend to play my characters with the same kinds of choices I might make in RL. Regardless of prefernse, strong heroines just kick ass in general, I think). And I agree with the assessment about Traynor, something I know others have brought up in other threads. Though I think your count might be a little off...

I feel bad for people who romanced Jacob (especially, I mean OUCH) or Thane. They didn't really get much fanservice themselves.

To be honest, though, I'd rather have just Garrus and Kaidan (as you said, two really great options) to choose from than have them add any male spacefillers like Allers for an option. Just my opinion, though, no need to go spreading it around.

EDIT: I did check out yourpie chart. We're close, but that few percent can still equal thousands of individuals. I know this was mentioned, but despite how we feel, there ARE still more guy gamers out there than girls. And the industry perceives that divide as larger than your chart (perception is everything).  And, I know many of them are friends of mine who play as fem characters, hence the options I think you're getting. "Fair"? Subjectively, maybe not. But that's the demographic for ya.

Modifié par LadyWench, 22 mars 2012 - 08:26 .


#19
D1ck1e

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I like Jack, Liara, Kasumi and Samara.

I guess I'm fortunate I got 2 options that interested me.

#20
thejoyrider

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you really shouldn't use the term jipped/gypped. it's an offensive stereotype slur.

anyway, straight female players totally got the shaft in ME3..and uh, not the good kind.

there's a few threads in the character forum discussing just this topic, actually.

protesting the poor treatment of thane, and jacob, protesting the poor treatment of ALL ME2 love interests, and a couple just for talking about why romances beyond kaidan, ashley and liara were left out in the cold. (garrus and tali had it a bit better than the other ME2 LI's too, to be fair) you should really check it out!

#21
suusuuu

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Short Cake Slayer wrote...

LOL

I really love Garrus, but I do have a hard time getting over the whole dinosaur thing.  Still romanced him on a playthrough.  If I ever go through the games again I'm going to do an ME3 with him too.  He's definitely the best written romance available for straight females; such a great guy, and he's got your back the whole time! 

Appropriate way to balance out this problem, BioWare; in future games, Hanar romances for men. No exceptions.

Actually, I find Garrus very appealing physically so w/e however I see no reason for the male sheps to not have a non-human looking love interest. 

#22
Chuvvy

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Short Cake Slayer wrote...
For those of you wanting to jump up and proclaim straight white male plantation owners (oops, I mean game owners) are a gross majority of gamers and that everyone else is in the fringes, here's where you're wrong:


And there goes your entire argument. I was sempathetic until you turned into a fema****. So, my advice to you is, deal with it.

#23
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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MaYtriX wrote...

As a homosexual female, I can't really complain with the amount of options set up for her.
The thing is, straight, gay, or bisexual, the male shep can romance a total of NINE characters, while femshep only gets the short end of the stick at just 6.
They turned kaidan bi-sexual spontaneously with no back story what so ever.
They really screwed femsheps on this one, but at the same time, males ARE the majority.
Also, that's not even counting all the male exclusive relationships from the second game that continued into the third, like miranda and jack, where thane and jacob both get the boot.


I know :S  Were there any lesbian romances in ME2 at all?   I would assume Jack is one (as she actually has a bisexual background and tells you about a threesome relationship she was in with her two previous partners) but I never tried to persue her, and she's not an option for ME3.  classic.  I felt that way about Kaiden, as well.  It just seemed to come out of left field.   

 I don't think men are the majority anymore; it's gotten pretty equal, as seen in the amazing pie chart I linked to in the OP.  (I'm such a fan of pie charts) :lol:

#24
Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer

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Slidell505 wrote...


And there goes your entire argument. I was sempathetic until you turned into a fema****. So, my advice to you is, deal with it.


As EDI would state, "That was a joke."  

#25
LadyWench

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suusuuu wrote...

There's also the fact that 100% of love interests for male shepard look human.

For the female straight Shepard we get 50% non-human, one human and Jacob (eww)


Never thought about that! Also, LOL at your Jacob comment. Good to know I'm not the only one who didn't fall for their weak attempt at eyecandy. :P