218 réponses à ce sujet

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

legion999 wrote...
Hot Fuzz.

This = Love <3<3<3<3

[The Angry One]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I love BioWare and I do love the fact that they're changing things.  Just...you know, change it faster.  I want a harem of love interests, too  

I can get behind this.

[TLK Spires]

let's see if i can agree with you here

straight male
tali - sweet, but lol stock photo - kinda jipped
miranda - not bad, but she has to die to see the 'better' one - kinda jipped
jack - all around awesome - no jipping here
ashley - all around good - no jipping here

straight female
garrus - awesome to a point where i wish he was gay even though i myself am not gay - no jipping here
thane - dies - jipped, but in a romantically tragic way
jacob - LOL LIKE FATHER LIKE SON - uber jipped/NTR'd

lesbian
traynor - better build up than outcome - no real jipping here

gay
cortez - i think it's very romantic - no jipping

bi
kaiden - not bad, seems better for the ladies - no jipping
liara - best one ever - no jipping

doesnt count
allers

i forget if she's bi or not
kelly chambers - if you aren't careful she dies, otherwise, so-so - kinda jipped maybe

looks like only straight females get truly shafted to me. in conclusion, i agree with you, but only partially. counting the above sexualities as individual and equal parts, as well as all romances being of equal romantic quality (lol jacob) i agree with you 20%. my condolences.

edit - actually, i double checked my math, and realized that it's only a 2/3 jip. so i actually only agree with you 13.4%.

double edit - upon further consideration, i realize that jacob is a double whammy. not only did does he break up with, and not only does he get the new chick pregnant, but apparently, he had known her for a year. the time between you first meeting him and the events of me3 was only 6 months. so triple whammy.since i'm getting tired of using my phone calculator, i'll just bump my agreeing with you up to a nice rotund 40%.

Modifié par TLK Spires, 22 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

TLK Spires wrote...

edit - actually, i double checked my math, and realized that it's only a 2/3 jip. so i actually only agree with you 13.4%.

Pie chart, or it didn't happen.

So wait, by your estimation, getting one crappy romance (lesbian and gay) is somehow better than even the straight females getting two romances? Can you explain your logic, cause..I mean, I'm not that good at math, but your list pretty much shows that straight men get more romances (and well written ones at that) than any other group. 

Also, gay men do get Kaiden, which is a plus; something I didn't know when I posted and another poster kindly informed me of  

Modifié par Short Cake Slayer, 22 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[rvgifford]

Not sure if someone said it already, but Kaidan seems to be romanceable by a male Shep, or rather, he came on to my male Shep, so the implication seems to be it's possible. So that would be two for a gay male Shep.

If there was only the one gay female relationship, a second might have been nice. I don't like seeing it overdone to the point of DA2 where EVERYONE is bi-sexual, however. I like to see a mix, like real life. Not all straight, not all gay, not all bi. Make compelling characters but account for everyone as much as possible, especially in a game about choice where romance is included.

Edit: I seem to be enjoying my typoes today.

Modifié par rvgifford, 22 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[TLK Spires]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

TLK Spires wrote...

edit - actually, i double checked my math, and realized that it's only a 2/3 jip. so i actually only agree with you 13.4%.

Pie chart, or it didn't happen.

So wait, by your estimation, getting one crappy romance (lesbian and gay) is somehow better than even the straight females getting two romances? Can you explain your logic, cause..I mean, I'm not that good at math, but your list pretty much shows that straight men get more romances (and well written ones at that) than any other group. 

Also, gay men do get Kaiden, which is a plus; something I didn't know when I posted and another poster kindly informed me of  

well, i went ahead and added a second addendum, so we have to account for that. and in all honesty, it's probably easier for me to say that i'm not really sure what i was getting at other than "jacob alone accounts for major jipping". oh, and i guess stupid sexy thane dying would, too, but at least it's a poetic kind of jipping, but still jipping. okay, let's call it 51%. i now mostly agree with the idea that straight females get jipped the most.  in regards to other sexualities, maybe i'll have to go over that a bit more later.

Modifié par TLK Spires, 22 mars 2012 - 11:48 .

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

TLK Spires wrote...

well, i went ahead and added a second addendum, so we have to account for that. and in all honesty, it's probably easier for me to say that i'm not really sure what i was getting at other than "jacob alone accounts for major jipping". oh, and i guess stupid sexy thane dying would, too, but at least it's a poetic kind of jipping, but still jipping. okay, let's call it 51%. i now mostly agree with the idea that straight females get jipped the most.  in regards to other sexualities, maybe i'll have to go over that a bit more later.

So did you play Traynors romance at all? I see you said the buildup was better than the outcome, but you thought it wasn't a real loss as far as a relationship goes.  I didn't play it because it seemed so stilted but I want to know what someone thought that did go through with it.    I honestly think it was just a slipshod development of a lesbian character; I mean, clasically in all games I've always wanted to romance a character that is in some way my own characters literary equal.  Their story is also important and feeds the main characters plotline intensely (which is why Garrus and Tali's relationships are so epically good).  Kind of that whole "great people attract other great people" idiom (totally paraphrased it there.)  Being able to get into a committed relationship with your assistant that you just met is kind of...underwhelming.  Like...everyone pays for the game, and yet some people get to romance Superman while others can only romance Jimmy Olsen.  

Modifié par Short Cake Slayer, 22 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

rvgifford wrote...

Not sure if someone said it already, but Kaidan seems to be romanceable by a male Shep, or rather, he came on to my male Shep, so the implication seems to be it's possible. So that would be two for a gay male Shep.

If there was only the one gay female relationship, a second might have been nice. I don't like seeing it overdone to the point of DA2 where EVERYONE is bi-sexual, however. I like to see a mix, like real life. Not all straight, not all gay, not all bi. Make compelling characters but account for everyone as much as possible, especially in a game about choice where romance is included.

Edit: I seem to be enjoying my typoes today.

Agree.  And yeah, someone did say it, but it's always good to have reminders  

[Spikko]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

Spikko wrote...

Yeah OP, I noticed that too and made me wonder a bit on the possible reasons that led to this.
I found one that seems likely to me and it's James Vega.
I really foresee that he will be the main focus of a planned future DLC.
Think about it: he came out of nowhere and was awesomely dubbed and written (even all the straight males that i know found him funny, consistent and really liked the character),
It was really a huge surprise to see that he was not romanceable at least for female players, even if a lot of flirts are in the game (or so I heard since i didn't played a femshep yet).

It's really likely that they will release at least one DLC centered on a squad member.
Let's call out Liara (she was already in LotSB) and Garrus/Tali (they coul be dead from ME2).
This leaves us with EDI and VS (and Javik but he's already a DLC so...).
EDI's story is followed deeply during the whole main story so I would call her out too and VS is not an option either since they can die during the coup.

James is the sole character with plot armour that was not completely developed and I can really see him being the focus of a DLC of some sort.
And in my opinion that DLC will contain his romance, just as LotSB contained the renew of Liara's in ME2.

I was thinking that, too, while this thread was blossoming, glad someone else noticed it  I was actually kind of afraid to talk to him during the main campaign because I was romancing Kaiden and didn't want to "accidentally" get into bed with Vega, but it all turned out to be harmless flirting.  Which then bothered me. HA.   I imagine they'll do exactly what you've described.

Well, I kinda ope so because i think that the character really deserves that.
when they first announced him I was kinda disappointed because I felt his presence completely unnecessary.
During my first playthrough however I really found him funny and solid as a character.
He was not at all "jersey shore meets mass effect", he was kinda a deep guy.
It was hard to leave him on the Normandy most of the time just because I had more involved character in every other mission (Liara and Javik on thessia for Instance works better than any other combination plotwise).

Yes, James deserves more.
And female players obviously deserves him.

[TLK Spires]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

TLK Spires wrote...

well, i went ahead and added a second addendum, so we have to account for that. and in all honesty, it's probably easier for me to say that i'm not really sure what i was getting at other than "jacob alone accounts for major jipping". oh, and i guess stupid sexy thane dying would, too, but at least it's a poetic kind of jipping, but still jipping. okay, let's call it 51%. i now mostly agree with the idea that straight females get jipped the most.  in regards to other sexualities, maybe i'll have to go over that a bit more later.

So did you play Traynors romance at all? I see you said the buildup was better than the outcome, but you thought it wasn't a real loss as far as a relationship goes.  I didn't play it because it seemed so stilted but I want to know what someone thought that did go through with it.    I honestly think it was just a slipshod development of a lesbian character; I mean, clasically in all games I've always wanted to romance a character that is in some way my own characters literary equal.  Their story is also important and feeds the main characters plotline intensely (which is why Garrus and Tali's relationships are so epically good).  Kind of that whole "great people attract other great people" idiom (totally paraphrased it there.)  Being able to get into a committed relationship with your assistant that you just met is kind of...underwhelming.  Like...everyone pays for the game, and yet some people get to romance Superman while others can only romance Jimmy Olsen.  

to be totally honest, i just watched the ones i didn't do on youtube. i should have prefaced what i said by mentioning that i'm a straight male who stuck with liara from the very beginning to the very end. what i saw with traynor specfically said to me that it captued a 'heat of the moment' event pretty well, but that was it. 

in regards to literary equals, i should point out that while i, personally, found miranda the least 'compelling', that the obvious similarities bewtween the two (high standards thrust upon them) was very hard to ignore in regards to a romantic connection.

so to give more clarity to why i think the way i think, i'll say that, for me, in regards to 'quality' of the romantic relationships in regards to my preferences, it went like this for me:

liara > (just barely) jack > tali > miranda

liara reminds me of someone i care about
with jack, it's a matter of opposites attract
tali is very easy to like, but it's hard to draw anything beyond that
while i admire intestinal fortitude as much as anyone, miranda struck me as very inwardly focused. while a great thing for her, it didn't bode well for a romantic relationship

[Spikko]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

TLK Spires wrote...

well, i went ahead and added a second addendum, so we have to account for that. and in all honesty, it's probably easier for me to say that i'm not really sure what i was getting at other than "jacob alone accounts for major jipping". oh, and i guess stupid sexy thane dying would, too, but at least it's a poetic kind of jipping, but still jipping. okay, let's call it 51%. i now mostly agree with the idea that straight females get jipped the most.  in regards to other sexualities, maybe i'll have to go over that a bit more later.

So did you play Traynors romance at all? I see you said the buildup was better than the outcome, but you thought it wasn't a real loss as far as a relationship goes.  I didn't play it because it seemed so stilted but I want to know what someone thought that did go through with it.    I honestly think it was just a slipshod development of a lesbian character; I mean, clasically in all games I've always wanted to romance a character that is in some way my own characters literary equal.  Their story is also important and feeds the main characters plotline intensely (which is why Garrus and Tali's relationships are so epically good).  Kind of that whole "great people attract other great people" idiom (totally paraphrased it there.)  Being able to get into a committed relationship with your assistant that you just met is kind of...underwhelming.  Like...everyone pays for the game, and yet some people get to romance Superman while others can only romance Jimmy Olsen.  

Well, you are seeing the glass half empty but try to see it half full in this way:

in ME1 Bioware had to take off the gay relationship with human squadmembers even if they were completely written (maybe even dubbed? can't remember for sure).
In this game they decided to say "FO, it's unfair for gya players, we need to change that".
So we now have two great squadmates that are kinda bi (Liara and kaidan) and 2 new characters completely homosexual.
And, even if they may not be as appealing as a complete squadmember, they are really well written.

Cortez is not just a random NPC, is with you in every mission on the shuttle, interacts with you with radio and you can help him a great deal with dealing with his grief for the loss of his husband.
Also his love scene is sweet and romantic.

Traynor his with you on the normandy all the time and interacts with you in a believable way.
Her voice actor is really good and her character is one that feels like integrant part of the story.
She's a crewmember, not random lesbian chick for banging.
The shower scene is a bit silly but not bad.

Just try to pretend Diana Allers didn't existed... that character is really, REALLY useless.

[Filby08]

It bugs me that Bioware would take the time to implement a useless fling with an unliked character (Allers. I don't understand why she was in the game) but not make Vega step up after all his sweet, sweet flirting.

But then again, we get Garrus.

[baudrahn]

As a female gamer romances are sometimes a bust. Still, on the bright side, Dragon Age series did have I think pretty good choices for the female gamer. It was pretty equal in DA2. Heh. Baldur's Gate was a bit stunning but otoh I actually grew quite fond of Anomen and then the modders added so many romances and flirt packs it was hard to choose in the end. What was the mod called that allowed multiple romances? It was barely possible to play without some potential LI interjecting. Good times, good times.

What is the state of modding with the ME series?

As to the ME series, I will never romance Liara (I suspect she is the best romance in the game) because I feel BW dropped the ball in their design of the aasari. When I first saw Matriarch Benezia I thought she was a drow. The aasari are too feminine in their design and I really get the impression that fem/shep and Liara are a guy's girl on girl fantasy.

I never played the Jacob romance but I did see it on youtube, while the character's abs are impressive, I have no regrets. I sorta got the drift of the ME3 Jacob romance from the non-li conversation options. Does something similar happen to Male/Shep? Or, does he just get all the action?

I actually didn't romance anyone in ME2 and I can't say I felt I missed anything.

What I do think is unfair is that Kaidan can be gay but Ashley can't be gay. Also, I just had a friend in the hospital in critical condition (she's recovering) and it never crossed my mind to give her a bottle of whiskey. Nobody would do that except Shep, I guess.

I do feel the romances in ME are more stereotypically male oriented than I felt in DA or DA2. Maybe more females play fantasy over sci fi? I prefer sci fi myself.

After the first ME, a friend and I had a debate whether FemShep was a happy accident or a fully realized plan and I had to say I thought BW just got lucky that FemShep wasn't just MaleShep in a higher register with better curves.

I deeply apologize if she was intended as a fully developed character in ME1. If true, great job. FemShep is one of my favorite female gaming characters of all time and BW has had some pretty decent female characters. Marian Hawke is pretty good too.

I was very fond of Ravel and P:Torment in general. I thought that was a very well developed game.

[Nykara]

Short Cake Slayer wrote...

I've always lauded BioWare for creating indepth romances and trying hard to make sure no one is "left out" regardless of their sexual preference.  The worlds they create where sexuality is simply a part of who you are and not up for public moral debate are worlds I'd frankly rather live in than RL Earth, sometimes.  I'm also not interested in one group getting more than another; I simply want it to be fair, and to be acknowledged that I'm just as valuable a member of this gaming community as everyone else. 

That being said, why is everyone who isn't a straight male still getting jipped? 

I only say this now because there's a massive amount of romance options in ME3.  Like, kind of a ridiculous amount.   In past games it's usually been two or three people, and so me (as a straight female) only being able to romance one person out of, say, three, wasn't that much of a sting.    But in ME3 there's no less than SIX available romance options for straight males.  Seriously?  Six?  Because the fugly news reporter is such an interesting character that extra time must be spent making her ravageable instead of possibly expanding other options?  Lesbian players have 3 options;  Straight female players have two (an awesome two, but only two, nonetheless) and Gay men have one. (cortez; I'm not sure if gay Kaiden is canon or not, but it doesn't look like he's romanceable for men in ME3? Could be wrong here.)

I'm curious as to how the break down for romance options became 6 options for straight men and half as much for everyone else.    I definitely think Bioware, with it's reputation for trying to play "fair" amongst it's gaming community, could do better here, especially since two of the romance options available to women are absolute complete fluff.  Really? With all these amazing characters I've gone to hell and back with, you think I'm even remotely interested in committing to some specialist I've just met?   And it's even worse if you want to play a lesbian FemShep, because your only really developed romance option is Liara; the other two are barely even notable  as they've just shown up for the final game. 

For those of you wanting to jump up and proclaim straight white male plantation owners (oops, I mean game owners) are a gross majority of gamers and that everyone else is in the fringes, here's where you're wrong:

http://static03.medi...ming-gender.png

This only covers gender. Doesn't cover sexual preferences.  The original PDF this comes from: http://www.theesa.co...ESA_EF_2011.pdf
 
Any thoughts? Did anyone actually play any of the tepid Diana Allers or Traynor romances that were offered and actually found the same level of satisfaction from them as any of the other cross-game romances?

Jacob, Kaidan, Thane, Garrus - that's actualy 4 right there. Dunno if any of the others are romancable. Seriously though the amount of romance options in the game has gone completely insane they should have just left it to Kaidan - Straight Female. Liara - Lesbo. Cortex - Gay Male. Liara - Straight male. I'm sure it has to of made their porgramming on the whole a LOT more complicated with all the romances around. Probably also less time to invest in them as well with so many sad really.

[Kalyppso]

 I had an accidental forever alone FemShep. It registered as No one Romanced in either ME or ME2.

She flirted with Kaidan, but chose to save Ash and Kirrahe (this was my first playthrough) and I genuinely thought this would have a greater change of Ashley's personality than it did, when she spat at Shepard that she should have left her behind, all I could think was, 'Yeah, I should have.'

She flirted with Samara (as a paragon) and still got shot down hard.

She flirted with James, who I hadn't checked in advance was a romance or not ...

But Kaidan was dead, Garrus hadn't been romanced in ME2 and she had already turned down Liara by the time she realized Vega wasn't interested. I even had her jump all over the opportunity to flirt with Joker, just to be told that 'No, I wouldn't sleep with you either.'

@-@ And that was it. I didn't want her to be a lesbian, it wasn't right for this Shepard. Though Traynor will probably get some lovin' if I ever get around to creating a new Shepard (still have three girls I'd like to play the game with (but probably not finish)).

There were no male love interests for this FemShep of mine in ME3.

[Nykara]

TLK Spires wrote...

let's see if i can agree with you here

straight male
tali - sweet, but lol stock photo - kinda jipped
miranda - not bad, but she has to die to see the 'better' one - kinda jipped
jack - all around awesome - no jipping here
ashley - all around good - no jipping here

straight female
garrus - awesome to a point where i wish he was gay even though i myself am not gay - no jipping here
thane - dies - jipped, but in a romantically tragic way
jacob - LOL LIKE FATHER LIKE SON - uber jipped/NTR'd

lesbian
traynor - better build up than outcome - no real jipping here

gay
cortez - i think it's very romantic - no jipping

bi
kaiden - not bad, seems better for the ladies - no jipping
liara - best one ever - no jipping

doesnt count
allers

i forget if she's bi or not
kelly chambers - if you aren't careful she dies, otherwise, so-so - kinda jipped maybe

looks like only straight females get truly shafted to me. in conclusion, i agree with you, but only partially. counting the above sexualities as individual and equal parts, as well as all romances being of equal romantic quality (lol jacob) i agree with you 20%. my condolences.

edit - actually, i double checked my math, and realized that it's only a 2/3 jip. so i actually only agree with you 13.4%.

double edit - upon further consideration, i realize that jacob is a double whammy. not only did does he break up with, and not only does he get the new chick pregnant, but apparently, he had known her for a year. the time between you first meeting him and the events of me3 was only 6 months. so triple whammy.since i'm getting tired of using my phone calculator, i'll just bump my agreeing with you up to a nice rotund 40%.

Jacob - All good! The Shepard I made that romanced Jacob only did so as a stand in for Kaidan while he was being all sulky on Horizon

[LegatoSkyheart]

Really sucks to know that if you romanced anyone from 2 that isn't Garrus or Tali that you are pretty much forced to get out of the relationship or to not develop the relationship more.

Seriously was considering about Romancing Jack in another play through.

[Semi-Sweet Serpent Charmer]

Someone PMed me this juicy tidbit, and it leads to another thread where this is also being discussed. This guys breakdown really hits it home

http://social.biowar.../index/10314283

Honestly I don't think I really care that the straight men get a ton of love interests. Give them as many as they want, no skin off my back. What bothers me is that it's a RIDICULOUS amount of time spent on giving them SO MANY love interests at what seems like the expense of everyone else. I can say that Garrus was extremely well written, and while Kaiden pissed me the hell off for his attitude on Horizon (and letting it keep him from NOT fighting the Collectors, as if moping is more important than saving humanity) I still think he's a well written character with tons of charm. But all of the female options, in my opinion, are also all well written with interesting personal backstories, and usually the pitfalls that come with them come from a players own personal preference of one type over another. Half of straight female's love interests either went off and impregnated someone else or..well, died.

Anyway, check the link, it's a great breakdown for you numbers peoples.

[FrozenDreamfall]

The most unfair thing they did that really pisses me off,and I hope they read this,in ME3 there are 8 male romance choices and 5 female ones.Not to mention they barely gave credit to the ME2 characters,like they never even mattered.Such wasted potential.And what I really don't get is why the hell did they make a gay Kaidan romance and not one for Ashley? I understand they put Samantha but Ash has been there since the begining like Kaidan.So what now he suddenly turns gay and Ash still has to be straight? I don't see any damn variety or logic in this.