I am starting this thread in response to Alain Baxter's request. For convenience, I am going to reiterate what I added to the original Constructive Criticism forum earlier today so that everything from today forward is in this thread. I hope this forum provides useful additional information to Mr. Darragh's forum or the original Constructive Criticism thread. I appreciate that our opinions are all being taken seriously and that so many people respond thoughtfully and courteously.
Alain Baxter wrote...
Wow! I remember this thread... I was one of many that spent a lot of time collecting and graphing (excel, you are my friend..) all of this feedback and using some of it to adjust and modify our DLC content. In the end, I feel this was time well spent and it's good to see that the community (and the dev team) still feels passionate about the Dragon Age Franchise.
I've dusted the old data files, but if I can make a recommendation, could someone create another thread? Over 100 pages is a lot to go through for new people to catch up on.
QueenPurpleScrap wrote...
I am disappointed that Mark Darragh's thread is closed. I will put my additional thoughts here and in my blog, hoping they get read. I love DAO. I still play DAO. I will continue to play DAO. DA2, not so much.
Abandoning the expansion for DA2: I wish they hadn't done that. I think some sort of expansion post-Kirkwall meltdown would have been nice. I think it could have provided a bit more closure to Hawke's story and still left some mystery. A small group of people could have been working on the story for DA3 while the expansion was being done.
More time for development: Increase the time between major releases so there is time to do an expansion, if planned, and the next major release isn't rushed to meet an arbitrary deadline.
DLC's: The DLC's for DA2 were better than the game. They were also somewhat jarring because storywise they were less integrated in the DA2 story than the DLC's for Origins. In Origins, Wardens Keep, Return to Ostagar, and The Stone Prisoner all seem to be part of the same game and world as Origins.
Companions: I do not agree with the choice to have Anders be a main character in DA2. It is another disconnect. When I played Awakenings, if Anders lived he made the choice, after a brief sojourn away, to live out his life with the Wardens in Amaranthine. A cameo by Anders where he is checking up on a recruit who ran away from the Wardens would have been fine. It would have been in keeping with Anders Awakening personality to not turn him in, his own experiences being hunted by templars would have seen to that. Don't make the same mistake in DA3.
Cameos: More judiciously applied. Some, like Alistair, made more sense than others. I found Isolde in MotA to be irritating and odd.
Dialogue: I actually got tired of the voiced Hawke. Legacy and MotA made me want to do more playthroughs, as well as the idea of seeing Alistair in more roles. However, the same voice for my different Hawke's took away from my sense of 'ownership' of the character. I would actually be fine with the Origins style dialogue, but with better animations. If you go with voiced, how about a filter so I can select the register (tenor, baritone, soprano, etc.) One recording, but still allows for some customization. I realize this may not be technically possible.
Toolset: RELEASE A TOOLSET. Most of my creative energies are currently going into a fanfic, but I do have ideas for 4 more mods, one of which will happen after Origins. I uploaded some preset options a few months ago. One of the things that makes DAO fresh and so much fun after a few playthroughs is the variety of mods available. You don't have to release the toolset the same time as the game is released. Release it 3 or 4 months later, after the first patch or two. Again, this can be incorporated into a longer time frame between major releases.
Most of my concerns have already been addressed in this forum or others, and in my blog(s). Thank you for listening to our concerns.
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Since these forums are closing, I am putting my old BSN blog and comments about DA2 here under spoiler tags. LOL, in the blog I quoted myself a couple of times.
DA2, DA3, (after some revisions) Posted: 2011-11-20SpoilerDecided to consolidate all my blogs for DA2, to avoid repetition, etc. Been playing some more Dragon Age (Origins and II). Also have some additional thoughts. I was one of many disappointed in DA2. The locations/maps were disappointing and repetitive. I hate the look of the elves, except for Fenris. I can't immerse myself in it like I can with DAO (which I am still playing). And other things.
1) The opening: It is definitely disruptive to choose a class, see Varric's first story version, then decide what my character and family should look like. You should set your look first, and choose your class. Then, after the Seeker tells Varric to tell the truth, you have the option to fine tune or redo your look (maybe), change your class (maybe), and then set your starting attributes/abilities.
2) The Story: Make sure there is a strong story to tell. There was 'stuff' in DA2, but no theme or plotline that carried all the way through. Use conversations before and after events to flesh out the story and the characters, give them depth. In DAO, there were a lot of sidequests, but some at least made sense. They were broke, and needed money to survive and build an army. And they were mostly grouped: Chantry, Mage, not-so-legal, etc. There were enough quests that you didn't have to choose all of them and what you chose or didn't was a reflection of your character. I found the Qunari threat and the mage-templar issues to be too separate and not well integrated into the story. They were there, like this will be a good crisis for Act 2 and we can use the other for Act 3. The blight, the archdemon and Loghain were all issues directly and indirectly affecting the Warden, Alistair, et al.
I found DA2 slower to get into. The transitions between acts could have been handled better with better writing, and more and better cutscenes. In DA2 I did appreciate how certain minor side quests ended up becoming part of the main quests/storyline. More random encounters outside of Kirkwall would have been nice.
Both games have quests that are unnecessary to the main. They are fun and/or add experience. Origins is, to me, more cohesive. And not just because there is one theme for the game - defeat the archdemon. The backstories, and many of the quests add layers and transitions from one element to the next. In a sense, DA2 is 3 stories (Act 1, 2, and 3), each one with a main theme. Because less time was spent on the people and in creating a better relationship or transition from one act to another, you just can't immerse yourself in DA2 like you can in Origins. There is a certain romance, or grandeur to Origins which could have been in DA2. You're not fighting an archdemon, but the rise to power with a world changing battle at the end certainly give you the elements. Texture, depth, substance to the characters, are reduced in DA2.
I will play DA2 again, it's an enjoyable game. But unless there are some major upgrades by Bioware, I don't see me playing DA2 a fraction of the times I have already played Origins. And I am already planning my next Origins game.
DA2 is a game, Origins is an experience.
3) Continuity and related issues: Better continuity checking. For instance, in Witch Hunt my Warden had her dog back, but the name did not get imported. Several people have already made note of inconsistencies when importing into DA2, among other things. It's a little bit jarring when somebody in DA2 says something or a codex entry says something that directly contradicts the game you played.
Sloppy editing and testing/followthrough in DA2. I have noticed a couple of conversation options which don't make sense based on where my relationships stand, and there was some of that in Origins. And that can be a tedious thing to weed through, so I can understand to a certain extent. But when plot flags for small quests are not set properly, that is sloppy or a sign of not enough resources to do a job properly. Two examples are Senestra showing up when she shouldn't and Sketch not going away when he should.
I imported a game from Witch Hunt, my DAO character did Origins, Awakening, Golems and WH in that order. Why didn't I get the Nathaniel quest in Act II? I haven't talked to them yet, but I see the dwarf with the missing sons instead. There's that continuity issue again.
4) Companions: I do not agree with the choice to have Anders be a main character in DA2. It is another disconnect. When I played Awakenings, if Anders lived he made the choice, after a brief sojourn away, to live out his life with the Wardens in Amaranthine. A cameo by Anders where he is checking up on a recruit who ran away from the Wardens would have been fine. It would have been in keeping with Anders Awakening personality to not turn him in, his own experiences being hunted by templars would have seen to that. Don't make the same mistake in DA3. Anders in Awakening was a different character than Anders in DA2. It's one thing to have cameos from OC, but not a main character from OC.
5) The Minimap: I like the transparency of DA2, but I prefer the size of Origins. I like being able to toggle off the minimap. Sometimes the size of the DA2 map was too intrusive into the main screen, and sometimes it was hard to read. A compromise of maintaining a set size (and border) with some transparency would be in order. Maybe not quite as transparent.
6) Characters: The characters should not be so plastic looking. If I want to play with Ken and Barbie dolls I will pick them up at local store. I much prefer the character generator for Origins, especially the skin tones and the hair. The hair in DA2 looks like Mr. Potato Head pieces. Bring the elves back closer to their Origins appearance, they are too buggy looking and are less individual looking. While I don't care that much for the darkspawn in DA2, and prefer the original versions, I'll be happy if Bioware stops mucking about with them. It's like for the elf redesign they were making a bad reference to Avatar, and with the genlocks in legacy a reference to the upcoming Planet of the Apes movie. Story, conversations, romances, friendships and rivalries, good quests are more important than constantly changing the looks of the different races because it is possible to do so. Sounds more like there is no clear vision.
7) Character Creator: I prefer being able to choose my race as well as gender and class. I enjoy being able to replay a game from a different perspective, not just making different choices. Although I realize that option may or may not be realistic for a given story. What if Hawke could have been a templar hiding an apostate sister? However, if I had to choose between the variety of options for my character and whether or not my character has a voice, I'll take the options over the voice every time. It actually seems a little weird that all my female characters sound exactly the same.
Better makeup and skin options. More like DAO. The darker lip colors especially seem kind of muddied, can't get a true wine or dark rose. And the intensity slider seems narrower. I would like to keep a hand mirror or something similar to the mirror in Black Emporium. Even if it's just to touch up my character, since in game looks can be a little bit different from character generation. The Character generator is very similar. Although I think the textures for hair and some other features were better in Origins. One thing that irks me in DA2 is that I can't modify the first 2 presets. I can't even change their hair without a mod.
8) The Environment: The environment needs to be richer. There has been enough talk about recycled locations that I won't go into it again here. I have already talked about it elsewhere. Legacy is better in that regard. But remember, the environment includes the people. In the Viscount's keep there were what, 7, 8, 9 sets of twins and triplets? Even down to the clothes in many instances? DAO had a much better variety of the 'extras' in the scenes. In DA2 there was a constant undercurrent of déjà vu all over again.
Why can't I go back into a cave or whatever after I finish a quest? I can't go into the Bone Pit any time I want, only when there's a job to do. The caves on the Wounded Coast don't stay open. I find that irritatingl It means my choice of companions is going to be somewhat determined by how badly I want to be able to check for traps and open chests. In the future, don't lock me out of places I have already been unless it makes sense for the story.
In my mind, there are 3 groups of people: you and your companions, guests from Origins (if you are playing DA2), and everybody else.
First, everybody else. For DA2, I can’t believe somebody decided the elves should look like insects or aliens and then gave the Dalish a brogue!!!! Elves are supposedly beautiful. I can, maybe, just barely, understand wanting to tweak the Origins elves a bit to make them a little more distinct from humans, but this?! All they need are antennae to wave around. I find the decision idiotic, but that is my opinion. Fenris is distinct from humans and all the other elves, and not just because of the lyrium. Maybe the hair is hiding something, but he still looks like he is part of the same planet and capable of physically (romantically) interacting with humans. And I gotta say, love the Voice of Fenris.
There is no individuality in DA2. One Qunari looks just like another. In Origins, Sten looked Qunari but he also was distinct from the others in his nightmare, who were distinct from each other. DA2 Qunari are like robots straight off the assembly line, except the Arishok has bigger horns. Origins elves looked very different from each other and still looked like elves as opposed to humans, there were several different face styles. In DA2, as far as I can tell you have 2 elves with different hairstyles, clothes, or tattoos. Whoop-de-effing-do. There should be some common traits, but that doesn't mean cookie cutter shapes you decorate differently. The humans are a bit more varied. And I think hair and beards were better handled in Origins. They had more depth and variety, a better texture. The plasticity of a lot of the hair in DA2 is a distraction, not an enhancement.
About Origins guests and recurring contacts, I am not going to get too specific, because I don't want to spoil anything for anybody. A former companion looks younger and more like a kewpie doll, removing all character from the face. I would not have recognized this individual without the voice and being called by name. One non-companion from Origins actually looks nice, a little more mature, but nice. Any other Origins companions I have seen so far just don't look good, and in some cases doesn’t look like the same person.
As far as companions go, not really a lot of complaints. Except for Merrill. She looks too much like the new DA2 elf. The hair and beards/stubble could be better. Some of the eyes are excessively pigmented.
BTW, I like the original darkspawn best. Genlocks are from dwarves (so why are there genlock emissaries), shrieks from elves, hurlocks from humans and ogres from qunari. The difference in sizes seems more proportional and likely than in DA2 or Legacy. Also, don't you think shriek emissaries would be creepy and ogre emissaries just bad-to-the-bone? After all, elves and qunari have mages.
In another forum, David Gaider wrote:
"Perhaps I shouldn't have responded to the initial thread at all. The responses from some quarters are fairly predictable -- . . . . . This is a field in which I have a lot of experience, however, so I'll speak to that, and in terms of how the writing team can best use the resources at hand. Resources are, after all, the reality of game development. So if I'm talking about things that you find irrelevant, that's fine. I just can't express it in any other terms, and I know for a fact that no matter what solution I end up trying it's never going to work for everyone. . . . . . " (http://social.biowar...index/7177791/2 for the full text)
First off, I do partly agree. Resources should be used efficiently. I am guessing money and time/labor being the main factors here, but I could be wrong. However, how they are used is dependent on the desired outcome. What is efficient for getting a decent game out quickly is not going to be the same method as for building a rich, substantive immersion which would build on and enhance that of the original. Based on what I have seen, the development of DA2 followed the first, not the second. Maybe the overall resources for the game.
The graphics are better in DA2 for spells and fighting, I like being able to elect to not show a helmet. Special effects aside, I prefer Origins. Where some settings in DA2 might have better detail or richness, which is more than offset by the lack of originality or sameness to locations. Hawke's estate aside, houses have the same floor plan, the variation is in the placeables and what doors you can go through. Rich people don't do pre-fab. There are a couple of types of caves, but once you have been in the 2 types, you can practically navigate any others blindfolded. Settings are recycled. The difference is again which doors I can open. And the minimaps do not change. If you can't go into a room or a tunnel, why still show it on the minimap? Cheap and Cheesy.
9) Traps: In my current Origins playthrough, I decided to do something different and have my rogue focus a lot more on traps. Traps are definitely not in my strongest area of gameplay, but I find myself enjoying the challenge quite a lot. So, bring them back. If I find them interesting, I am sure that many of the more experienced gamers would appreciate them even more.
10) Stealth: I do not understand why stealth is limited as a tactic in DA2. In Origins my stealthed rogue could set/disarm traps and be back with the party before the enemy knew anything. Or, if using hold, could go to an advantageous position before battle broke out. It seems silly to limit it to an in-battle tactic. 3/22/2012 - I noticed this time that stealth can be used without enemies about, either I did not utilize this before or it was fixed in a patch, I do not understand why it is time limited. Again, the functionality seems limited.
11) Abandoning the expansion for DA2: I wish they hadn't done that. I think some sort of expansion post-Kirkwall meltdown would have been nice. I think it could have provided a bit of much needed closure to Hawke's story and still left some mystery. A small group of people could have been working on the storyline for DA3 while the expansion was being done.
All along I have been reading that fans of DAO don't mind waiting for DA3 if it means a better game. If the decision to abandon the expansion pack was because of the ME3 controversy, then I am appalled. I would hope that in choosing to address the claims raised by one group of fans (of which I approve) they are not sacrificing the interests of another group. Since the expansion was in the works and would presumably provide some closure to Hawke's story, I personally find it preferable to delay the expansion and DA3 timelines. Even choosing to consolidate the story so it is somewhere between Legacy and Awakening would be better than throwing it away. I also hope the decision wasn't made because of Anime, comics, or other media.
12) More time for development: Increase the time between major releases so there is time to do an expansion, if planned, and the next major release isn't rushed to meet an arbitrary deadline.
13) DLC's: The DLC's for DA2 were better than the game. They were also somewhat jarring because storywise they were less integrated in the DA2 story than the DLC's for Origins. In Origins, Wardens Keep, Return to Ostagar, and The Stone Prisoner all seem to be part of the same game and world as Origins.
14) Hold: just not as effective in DA2. If I want my people to hold position, they should darn well do so (as long as I am in the area).
15) Mass Paralysis and Blizzard: I miss those 2 area of effect spells. You have firestorm, why not blizzard?
16) Crafting: I was undecided on the crafting issue. Sometimes I liked DAO, sometimes DA2. Ultimately, I prefer DAO. Certainly the exact method used in DA2 wouldn't make sense in DAO. However, there is something to be said for finding different places to purchase crafting agents such as getting out and talking to different people. On further reflection: More variety in potions, etc. I liked having to earn the poison or herbalist or rune skills. It made my character more custom. If I don't want those skills, then I should have to leave home in order to purchase them.
Maybe a combination of DAO and DA2, add a quest which includes setting up a lab, for example in Hawke’s basement. You could carry around some ingredients so you can make things on the spot, but you can also store them in the lab for your main crafting time. You can have your multiple potion types and ingredients without them taking up a lot of your inventory space. Complexity and convenience.
Runes in DA2 work similar to potions and poisons. Only you can't recycle runes. You can replace what you have, but only if you find or purchase another one for which you have a recipe. I can go either way on this point. I want to be able to reuse runes rather than have them destroyed. I get a special rune, a one-time only, and I either hold on to it for probably longer than I should, or I sacrifice it. It is certainly not green policy to destroy it. They are called rune slots, which should mean replaceability.
17) Stealing: Bring it back. While it doesn't make sense for all my Wardens, stealing was effective for some, and if I was high enough to steal in combat I also did some damage.
18) Templar skills: if I am a mage, why don't I feel more of different affects when fighting templars than anybody else? What happened to cleanse area and holy smite? Or am I supposed to be that much superior to templars? Also, why are there templar rogues? According to Alistair, only warriors could learn the templar skills. Fighting templars should be different than fighting Carta thugs, Tal-vashoth, etc.
19) Romance: (see other blog entries for further thoughts on this subject) I have certainly not explored every romance possibility, and I have not played as a guy, but I get the feeling that I can romance all the romanceable characters whether I am male or female. If I am wrong, then the distinction between the characters is not clear to me. If this is correct, then that takes away from the depth of the game. One of the features that made Origins replayable is that you have different romance options based on who your character is. Even though I usually play as a female, I should have to play as a male for some options.
Origins is better, hands down and multiplied. Instead of paying for somebody to undesign the elves and other characters, they should have enhanced and expanded how you relate to your companions. Really, you can only talk to them at designated times? And when it pertains to a quest?
In Origins, you can talk to your companions. You don't have too, except in a few instances. Just like in real life you don't want to talk to everybody. But you do have the opportunity. These people have their own places, and you can't talk to them to find out more about them? If you have a love interest, you can't suggest a little alone time? There are plenty of beds available that should make it easier, not less likely. In Origins, there is a lot of lead up to the relationship, as well as discussions/interactions afterward. In Origins I romanced Zevran, Alistair, Leliana and Morrigan. Every single one of them had more depth and interest than what I have encountered in DA2. I am not going to say that you have to have as much nonquest conversation as in Origins, I kind of like some of the cutscenes related to quests, but a combination of both might be nice, so there is some structure to the timing of important conversations, and having some extra conversations not able to happen before Act 2 or 3 (but otherwise at your discretion, and possibly building on previous conversations).
20) Skill trees: Bring them back. I like the fact that there were skills I could assign to different party members regardless of their class. They add to the depth of my character and companions. It would be nice if in melee, a character with the appropriate skill level could have 'Steal' as an assigned tactical option.
21) Ability tree: [/b]I miss the ranger tree for the rogue and being able to animate dead people for the mage. That said, my only qualm with the DA2 system is that you have to select a branch before you can mouse over an ability to read the description. I would rather you be able to view the descriptions of the main abilities and then select the branch if you want to add an ability to a specific character.
Also, it would be nice to know which specific spells can't be used when other things are active, like spirit healer. There's not enough of that.
22) Leveling up: I prefer the system in DAO where you don’t finalize your level up until you have made all your choices.
23) Cameos: More judiciously applied. Some, like Alistair, made more sense than others. I found Isolde in MotA to be irritating and odd.
24) Dialogue: I actually got tired of the voiced Hawke. Legacy and MotA made me want to do more playthroughs, as well as the idea of seeing Alistair in more roles. However, the same voice for my different Hawke's took away from my sense of 'ownership' of the character. I would actually be fine with the Origins style dialogue, but with better animations. If you go with voiced, how about a filter so I can select the register (tenor, baritone, soprano, etc.) One recording, but still allows for some customization. I realize this may not be technically possible.
I really miss talking to people when I want to talk to them. Sure, I can understand certain quests and topics of conversations not being available until such and such time or series of events. What does that have to do with romance or friendship, or just finding out more about the people you end up traveling with? If there are important events in somebody's life, you can talk about them in more than one conversation (which seems more natural to me) than in a single cutscene. And maybe I want the option of not talking to them about it, instead of it being an incomplete quest. The gifts kind of go along with this, why should they be quests? And why not find out they might be important to the person by conversations you have had with that person? For instance, you would think that Fenris might like the book about Shartan because you would have had a conversation about having the time to read (even if he doesn't admit to being unable to read until you give it to him) or you discussed how little you know of Shartan . . . . stuff like that.
If there is going to be a character like Varric, make him romanceable!
I can appreciate trying a different method, a mix of the DAO and DA2 styles might have been best. The DA2 style lends itself better to making sure certain conversations are not held before the appropriate time in the story line. Although the convo wheel is not always the best way to get there. (The descriptions and icons can be misleading). I am referring to talking to people at your or their home base at specific times. However, other conversations, especially if you want to learn more about somebody, should be able to occur more naturally, while out wandering, etc. The background banter between characters in DA2 does flesh out the NPC's more than it does in DAO, so that is something. Direct conversations on your timetable rather than the game's timetable would be nice.
The conversation wheel in DA2 can be misleading. I had a conversation with an individual in my current game, and I responded with the agreeable/tactful option, companion responded, I had 3 options. 2 were for romance and the third was breakup. Not realistic or logical. I decided to see what the breakup option was like. It was just rude. And unnecessary. I replayed the conversation using the wry/witty option to avoid romantic complications. Snarky, not witty, borderline rude. In Origins, I could keep a middle ground the entire game without getting in romantic territory. There have been other instances (non companion, too) where the icon was misleading.
In Origins, the background banter included observations and comments about your romantic interest. That was fun.
25) And if I choose to have a romance, I should have the opportunity to repeat the experience. After all, I'm worth it. LOL
26) Toolset: RELEASE A TOOLSET. Most of my creative energies are currently going into a fanfic, but I do have ideas for 4 more mods, one of which will happen after Origins. I uploaded some preset options a few months ago. One of the things that makes DAO fresh and so much fun after a few playthroughs is the variety of mods available. You don't have to release the toolset the same time as the game is released. Release it 3 or 4 months later, after the first patch or two. Again, this can be incorporated into a longer time frame between major releases.
I would like to see the toolset updated or revisited. Modders did some great things which enhanced the DAO experience for me (especially after I played a few times without any mods), that I would like to see this capability going forward. I even made some of my own presets for DAO, and would love to add them to DA2, if I knew how. And I know I would like to do something in DA3 if I decide to purchase.
27) Random encounters:[/b] Why weren't there any random encounters/ambushes when traveling from one part of the city to another? Once I am in Hightown, I can see groups of thugs (usually). With my reputation, I am presumably a target for somebody or other. And they don't all have to be ambushes. This could be another way of getting sidequests, pieces of information, etc. I think the gameplay would be richer and less regimented. Also, what about non-quest random encounters with your surviving sibling? You live in the same city.
28) The codex: I miss being able to review recent conversations, especially if I want to know where I left off. And the quests journal entries, I prefer that the entries build on previous actions instead of the latest action replacing what happened before. Especially for longer quests, it's nice to see you have done thing 1, thing 2 and thing 3, but still have more to go. And when the quest is completed, I don't want all of that replaced with a single line or 2. Kind of diminishes my efforts.
Conversations: It was nice to be able to review recent conversations, especially if you have played several games and might not be quite sure where you left off. I see no reason to not have that. This REALLY bugs me. If you don't want a separate section on conversations, how about under the character information you document the conversations you had with that character? It wouldn't be every conversation, but at least the conversations with mentioned characters would be available.
Current quests: Where I find the Origins codex has an edge is that you have more information about what happened in previous steps. DA2 tends to replace information rather than add to it. This is particularly annoying because you can't review any recent conversations.
In DA2, the tiles were done away with. You open the section you want and scroll down to select a specific item. There are fewer entries than in Origins, so maybe that is why. I can go either way. However, where DA2 falls behind is that sections with new entries are not highlighted (same with quest sections, actually). You have to know which section the information is in to read the entry. It may be minor, but it bugs me.
How about the journal really being a journal, and there is a chronological record of what I do and the conversations I have? For example:
- "Noble Origin
- Conversation with father ".....", ".....", etc. (Details, who said what)
- Convo w/ Arl Howe
- Convo w/ Duncan
- Quest: Find Fergus
- Encounter SG
- Convo w/ SG
- Quest: dog in kitchen
- Quest: dog in kitchen, convo w/ Nan
- Quest: dog in kitchen, kill rats in pantry
- Name dog"
I know it would be lengthy. But I would like it.
I would like to be able to make my own notes, in game. If I had to choose, I would take this over the complete journal I just mentioned.
29) Combat: Combat is not really my thing, so I will defer more to what others say in terms of the style. Well, mostly defer. I like the ability to quickly target an available enemy with the tab key as well as target a specific enemy the more traditional way. I know each companion has one skill tree just their own. Hawke can have one as well, depending on rogue, warrior or mage. Otherwise, all mages should have the same skill tree access, all rogues, etc. I like the greater flexibility of determining who does what. And I think the combat moves in DA2 are too fast. I can't really enjoy the visuals. Maybe halfway or 3/4way between DAO and DA2?
30) Tactics: Tactical slots: either start with more or automatically add a slot at every level up. In DAO I did not like having to use a skill point to get more slots, I should have earned that by leveling up. That did not make sense to me.
For DA3 I agree that the toggle weapons should be put back into play. If your character can have different weapon types, then you should have the ability to alternate your weapon sets without having to go into your inventory every few moves. And adjust the battle tactics accordingly to allow you to jump to . . . and switch to specific type weapons.
I also like being able to create multiple custom tactics that I can switch between, as in DAO.
31) Armor: I remember reading conversations about armor. I liked that in DAO I could put people in different armor based on the stats (as well as aesthetics). But I also like that in DA2 the companions each have their own style. However, what I don't like is that if I purchase or find an upgrade to somebody's armor you don't see a difference. That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I think something could be worked out so that the armor of your companions reflects their individual styles, but upgrades could be optionally equipped when found or purchased, and they would make some difference in the basic appearance - a cape, belt, quiver, tie, sash, boots, gloves, etc. Changes of color, whatever.
32) The Ending: This probably should have gone with the story, but anyway. The DAO epilogue was more satisfying than DA2. All the companions except the love interest left the Champion, but to do what? Wynne and Shale planned on going to Tevinter, Leliana did whatever, etc. Did Aveline and Donnic stay in Kirkwall or did they go elsewhere? These questions should have been answered.
1/26/2012
I have been playing as a male mage in the current round of DA2, with the patch 1.03 update and some mods to change the look a bit. I enjoy the banter between the characters, still. I hadn't thought I would play more, but it is a change of pace….. I do prefer playing as a male in DA2 more than Origins because I get to see more of the character I create from other camera angles. After all, if I make a good looking guy I really want to be able to see him in action.
1/31/12 - update: However, I do start to feel that I am checking my list of quests to make sure I've taken care of everything before I go to the next act. Makes the game start to feel like a series of chores at times. Definitely prefer the flow in Origins. Except for the fact that I don't like to leave something unfinished, I would probably not complete some games once I think I have explored all the options (differences based on different romances, Origins endings, etc.)
3/22/2012 from Constructive Criticism thread.
I am disappointed that Mark Darragh's thread is closed. I will put my additional thoughts here and in my blog, hoping they get read. I love DAO. I still play DAO. I will continue to play DAO. DA2, not so much.
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About Legacy
@KoP: I was thinking about what you said regarding the 'Thin Veil'. If Bioware had handled it properly, this could have been the hook to really bring the story together. Hawke, the outsider, noticing things (such as the seeming abundance of blood mages, or something) and wanting to learn more about Kirkwall. Learning the history, discussions with templars, mages, companions, Orsino and Meredith. Argue about relocating the Circle for everybody's benefit. Learn some things which might show as affecting the Qunari, Anders/Justice's lunacy at the end could even be partially a result of the underlying pervasive influence. If the writing had been anywhere near par, the Thin Veil would have been the background against which the human (elf, dwarf, qunari) agencies would have played out. The corrupted idol could have easily been tied into this (probably should be). Personally, I always wondered why, when some people talk about the havoc a mage can wreak that Hawke never pointed out that events in Ferelden prove you don't need to be a mage to cause great damage (i.e. Loghain, Howe).
I have now played Legacy 4 times. I have been mage, warrior, and rogue. I have played in acts 1, 2, and 3. Anders and Fenris have been the love interests. I have played with everybody in my party except Isabela. (I am counting Carver and Bethany as one, in this instance). I enjoyed Legacy a lot. The Tower locations, where you would expect some repetition from one floor to the next did not seem repetitive to me. I like the creepy parts of some of it (being as vague as possible for the no spoiler thing). I was set to Normal in all instances, and some battles were definitely more difficult than others. One battle I found particularly irritating because there was no autosave between the lengthy blah blah blah and the fighting, so every time I had to begin again I had to talk again. I guess I just need to do better. I enjoyed the background chatter among the companions, and that it provided some more depth to many of the characters. Even Sebastion had some pertinent things to say. I liked that Hawke took more part, although I still miss being able to converse with somebody whenever I want. There were a couple of moments when an actual conversation could have had significant meaning.
I felt more a part of Legacy than any other aspect of DA2. The lack of obviously recycled elements helps, the background dialog, the individual reactions, all helped me get into my character more.
One of the things lacking in DA2 was a unifier. The qunari and mage/templar issues overlapped some but are basically separate. In DAO you had the blight and the archdemon to bind the game/story together. It colored the relationships, etc. Bioware, you should have used Legacy to bind DA2. You could still have set it up to play in different acts, depending on player preference, add a few conversations "I'm not ready to talk about Father, yet" "Mother/Carver/Bethany do you know what this memento of Father's means" "They're all gone. Maybe it's time". Throw in some random Carta cultist battles until the quest is over and then some follow up dialogs and background banter. You've got a way to make the game more cohesive, a better story, and so many ways in which all the characters could have been more fully developed.
About Mark of the Assassin
I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed Assassin. I have played twice, 2 different saved games with different romances. I was so bad to my guys, I took my LI's with me and flirted with Tallis. I'm a bad, bad girl. Anyway, I am glad it was different from Legacy. I enjoyed the scenery and the different battles. The pacing of events reminded me more of Origins, where there was time for the companions to talk to each other, and to me. Yeah, I know you walk around in DA2 and your companions talk some, but it seemed more natural and more regular in MotA.
My main problem with the 2 DLC's is that they are so-o-o-o much better than DA2 itself. Richer, better story, etc. And, being able to play them in any act makes them more disjointed from the main game. I can see it for Legacy, but there really is no need for it in MotA. Since it doesn't involve family, there is really no point that I can see for being able to play from different acts. And isn't the library getting rather full of huge, ugly mementos? Also, if the DLC is going to occur in game, then there should be some lead-in and follow-up added to the vanilla game so that the storytelling isn't spoiled by a lack of continuity. Regardless of whether you liked or disliked Golems and Witch Hunt, they did not interfere with the Origins story. And the ingame extras: Wardens Keep, Shale, Return to Ostagar, were well integrated so that they added chapters rather than inserting a completely unrelated story.
When to play Legacy? In my opinion the best time to play is either just before the deep roads expedition in Act 1, so you can take your sibling or at the beginning of Act III, after your love interest is as developed as its going to get. (I wouldn't say the 'romantic' dialog, such as it is, should be a big factor in your decision). I didn't see enough difference between acts 2 and 3 to really care. I have not always had Varric in my party or always had a mage, just so you know.
I know people complained about the Legacy items not evolving. I do think that was a mistake on Bioware's part. If you play Legacy in the first act, the stuff is obsolete long before the second act is over. And the items in Legacy are much more important to Hawke because of the family connection. I think Bioware should 'patch' Legacy to fix this. Till then I am going to try out a mod I found. The MotA items are fun, and I can always sell them. But they don't have the personal flavor to me that the Legacy items do.
I enjoyed the puzzles in Assassin, too.
Playing MotA has gotten me in the mood for playing another game of DA2, something I didn't really think would happen. At least for a long time. And I can plan my characters according to how I want to handle the 2 DLC's.
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General and miscellaneous thoughts
- I have absolutely no desire to see a multi-player Dragon Age game. If I want to do that, I will do Facebook Legends.
- In DAO I could check my online profile without leaving my game. I miss that in DA2 (unless that causes the memory leaks). I would think that would at least be possible from the main menu, though.
- Don't do Varric style narrative again, or if so replace pictographs with pictures of the events. Maybe in black & white or sepia tinted pictures of Hawk moving in, Carver/Bethany in new situation, protests against Qunari, mages and templars issues, etc.
- More achievements than in DA2. One thing about the achievements in DAO is that it helps me to not do the same thing over and over again (which is enjoyable). It helps me get out of my comfort zone and I end up enjoying the game more.
- o I like the 'show no helmet' option.
- o I like the option to highlight useable items.
- o I like the enhanced targeting option.
- o Would prefer higher max levels, 25 in Origins didn't seem enough, even without mods. Maybe 60 - 100 (which would have carried over into Awakenings, etc. instead of increasing levels for Awakening). Maybe player could earn special branch points every 7 levels or at levels 7, 14, 28, 39 . . . instead of just stopping at 14.
- I will go further, I would like to change the quickbar to a rotating one, so that regardless of screen resolution I can get more than 10 or 12 slots. And I would like to be able to add the tactics I want to the Quick Bar so I can switch between them more easily (by this I mean Controlled, Custom 1, Defender, etc.).
- I like being able to move items to a 'junk' or 'for sale' status. But I do think there is too much automatic junk in DA2. I would rather decide what should go into the 'for sale' category, and I would rather not pick up a lot of stuff for which there is no use whatsoever: raven feathers, for instance.
- o A lot of the items looted could be used (armor) or were obvious in value (diamonds). That’s a much better loot system.
- If I have the character walking, but use the mouse to select a destination point, I want them to walk there instead of running. This is pretty low on my preferences, though.
. . . . . . .
I miss skills, as I have said elsewhere. One thing I thought about recently, there are so many places in Kirkwall where you can change your party members but nowhere in Sundermount, etc. where you can do the same. I would like to be able to switch up my party without having to go all the way back to the city. . . . . . .- Injuries, go back to different types of injuries and let user make determination whether individual needs to be healed just then or not.
- I agree with the comments about better deaths in DAO, not just chunks of blood and stuff as in DA2.
- I like the look of a lot of the magical effects in DA2, Arcane Shield, Cone of Cold and Rock Armor immediately come to mind. But I also agree with the people who said that some of them definitely make it hard to see. What I wouldn't mind is to see the whole effect appear when you turn it on or off, but in between maybe all the swirling of something like arcane shield could be at my feet. And I wouldn't mind not seeing the effect when I am not in a combat situation.
- Don't 'dumb down' or simplify in order to appeal to a larger audience. In many ways I feel this was done in DA2. If the story and characters are good enough, it will appeal. You can do something in the Game options, add a 'Streamlined' option which might encompass:
- recommended level up attributes, skills and tactics based on character development to that point (not replacing autolevel) which user could choose to use or not
- fewer sidequests
- maybe some abilities or ability upgrades would not be visible
- not all achievements could be unlocked, those would still be based on the complete experience
- Addons and DLC would require the complete experience mode. If they like the game well enough to purchase DLC and expansions, they will play in complete experience mode anyway (to play those extra sidequests, or get those achievements)
@aries1001: When I imported directly from an Awakening end of game save, I got the Nathaniel quest. Obviously importing from Origins will result in the other 2nd act deep roads quest. What is interesting, is that my current playthrough imported information from Witch Hunt which imported from Golems which imported from Awakening. Yet no Nathaniel quest, instead I have the other quest. Bug? Deliberate? I'm not sure.
- I would like to add that if I summon a creature, whether a wolf in DAO or the dog in DA2, I want to be able to click on them (or their portrait) and direct them. If Mabari are such intelligent dogs I should be able to give them a command or two and have them follow orders (at least as much as my children do, haha).
Tancred Of The Chantry
2012-01-07 01:57 AM
Interesting comments about DA2. I think you're spot-on about Legacy. Everything about it, from the interactions to what it adds to the lore to the tactical combat, is great. It really is so good that it kind of overshadows the main game. I've not played Mark of the Assassin yet, but want to.
I am on my second play through of DA2. The first time I played as a rogue, and used the default scenario with Alistair as king, no Anora, and the warden lives. I romanced Anders, for anybody who wants to know. For my current playthrough, I imported a game from the beginning of Awakening: elven mage, hooked up w/ Zevran, Alistair is king, bye-bye Anora and Loghain, Bhelen rules and obviously I convinced Alistair to perform the dark ritual with Morrigan. I am only in Act I, no big progression with romances. Between the PS3 version and the PC version I have probably played Origins over 20 times. Love that game. I hope BIOWARE reads this, because in my less-than-completely-humble opinion it could make DA3 better than DA2, and maybe equal to Origins. Some of this is about story and some of it is just how things work.
What does this mean for me and future Dragon Age games? I will not be in the front of the line for DA3. I will wait until I have seen reviews, forums and for enough patches to have been done to fix any bugs (and there should be fewer than what we have seen) before I make a decision to purchase. If I had never played DAO, I am not sure that DA2 would be enough for me to consider DA3. It is just not compelling enough, even though I like some of the characters.
Suggestion to Bioware: concentrate on aspects of the game that make it richer and more rewarding for more players, than redesigning things just because you can.
Something that doesn't make sense to me in DA2, one of the big controversies involves mages and templars, how dangerous and destructive magic can be. How come I have yet to hear anybody say that you don't have to be a mage to be corrupted by power or temptation? Ostagar and Loghain, anyone? Seems to me that would add another layer to the debate. Also, since in my current playthrough the Hero of Ferelden is a mage, that could be brought up more. Or how mages helped the Hero. Wynne, the Circle, whatever.
Additional Thoughts 1 2012-08-31 09:46 AMSpoilerQueenPurpleScrap wrote...
from Bioware's August question of the monthBig thing for me is the option to develop my characters in different ways. I also like my companions to be able to do different things: one for poisons, one for traps, one for herbal, one for runes . . . .Jessica Merizan wrote...
.............
Some examples:
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
Limits on what you can craft based on class
The ability to buy crafting materials
No crafting materials
etc etc etc
This also means I want to be able to purchase a lot of stuff if I want to build my character and companions a different way.
BRING BACK SKILL TREES
Limits based on skill or class: Skill yes, class no, race no.
You can give a headstart on a particular skill based on class and race, but there should be no limit on who can learn a skill. The limit should be in the control of the person playing the game. In fact, it always bugged me that anybody could learn the trapmaking skill, but only rogues could disarm them. Something like that, the disarm ability could have been based on either.
If I choose not to develop my herbal skills beyond a certain point it means I can't make certain potions. Maybe I can buy some of them, but not all. And I want to develop my companions in different ways. But I should be able to decide, and not just at the character creation, how far my character can go in a particular skill. Skill, to me, implies that any can learn it if they take the time and dedication.
Buying and collecting crafting materials: Yes and Yes
I think you should be able to purchase the basics at different places as well as some collect as you go. For special potions you should have to earn or find the ingredients and/or recipes. If you don't do the one quest in Awakening you don't get a particular lyrium recipe you need for one of Master Wade's specialty items. I like the idea of an ingredients bag which might have, say, 20 slots in its own right but only takes one slot in your backpack. This bag could be the result of a quest or purchase.
If you're not interested in crafting, you can stick with some basic potions. I've played Origins using nothing but health and mana potions, and usually no greater than Greater. I've also played where crafting different items was more key.
If you don't like crafting and are willing to spend the extra money you should be able to purchase a reasonable variety of potions and some runes.
Maybe some randomization: Varathorn always has elfroot available but the amounts can vary from 20 to 99 each visit so you have to decide whether to load up or not. Same with potions, Merchant A will always have lyrium potions available but number and strength will vary on each visit.
Runecrafting/weapons upgrade:
I liked runecrafting in Awakening. I could decide how far I wanted to take the ability. There should be consequences for not developing the skill to its highest level. DA2 was all find stuff in neverending streams and if you have the money create what you want, no skill required. Ultimately, didn't like it.
If you want more than expert or master level runes you have to learn runecrafting. Nor should you be able to purchase all expert or master level runes. It's all about the choices you make.
Runes should not be one time use only.
Weapons upgrade outside of runes, should be a skill you have to learn. Or something you have to pay for.
Visual customization:
Definitely yes, at least as far as color goes.
A mod that I downloaded after purchasing the PC version of the game is the Universal Dye Kit. For me it is an automatic for every playthrough. If I take a lot of time customizing my character's appearance I want to be able to have his/her clothes compliment them. I enjoy the additional aspect of being able to go online to create custom combinations and saving them rather than having the mechanics saved on my computer.
I also like to be able to change the colors if I put the armor on a companion.
Maybe yes, when creating armor/weapons. It might be fun to have a smithing skill or access to an armorer (if I have the money) to create items and determine material, type, straight v. curved blade, certain styles of armor, etc. But I honestly don't know how much I would spend on this, it would probably depend on the quantity and quality of found items.
Stats customization: yes, when creating based on materials used. Or upgrading
Randomization: partly
I think some things when found or created could have a random element. There are a lot of bows and blades that are found, and if it's not something special it doesn't matter to me if in one playthrough the dagger I find in chest A has flame damage capability on it and in another one it does more straight damage or is just very low level. If I'm on a particular quest to get Starfang (or it's one of the rewards I can choose) I want to know what I'm getting.
I think crafting potions could be a mix. For instance, elfroot will always give me health, the amount of elfroot (plus distillation or concentration agents) determine the strength. However, maybe there's a plant called moonblossom which can add stealth, invisibility, or threat reduction and you don't know which it will do when you create the potion. Maybe you can't use it until you find information about it, or you have to use it a few times to see what it does. At some point you know when you use it you will get one of those features.
Perhaps some ingredients could be added to existing potions: Moonblossom plus greater health increases health at the same it adds stealth for x seconds.
Using these more exotic elements would require a certain skill level.
DA2 could have used a greater variety of potions. Flame resistance, spirit resistance, etc. It relied too much on the runes.More about potions: I want the crafting and other skills back, as I have said before. I do understand how frustrating it can be to carry all those items around with you. The resources in DA2 really don't make sense - a never ending supply of lyrium, glitterdust, etc.? Why wouldn't the templars and the mages be tearing down your front door? Perhaps an option would be to set up an alchemy lab, for example in Hawke's basement. You and whichever companion has the requisite crafting or poisonmaking skills could go to the lab to do your work, same for runecrafting and trapmaking. In fact, you could have to carry all your supplies at the beginning and have a quest for setting up the lab: storage, work space, equipment. As you purchase or find supplies you can either store them back at the lab or carry them with you to create the items as you go along.
Additional Thoughts 2 2012-09-25 09:43 PMSpoilerFrom my More Constructive Criticism thread http://social.biowar...2660/8#13362108
Created 2 months ago
This post might be a little controversial to some. I want the companions to be more fleshed out than they were in DA2. I know this has been said before. I've played DA2 roughly half a dozen times. Usually my LI has been Fenris (I fell in love with that voice on day 1) or Anders. Once it was Isabela.
I'm tired of Fenris and Anders. There, I've said it. I was blinded(?) by the Voice for awhile, but I'm tired of Fenris. I would have thought there would be more growth on both their parts by Act III. And no, I don't consider Fenris finally growing a set and telling me he loves me to be much in the way of growth since he continually growses about mages. Even when I am one. You would think at some point being with Hawke so much might make him willing to consider that all mages are not the same. But right up to the end, he is condemning mages right and left, with every bitter breath. If we had options to talk to people when we want, this might have been addressed or dealt with better, but certainly there could have been something in the banters to indicate he wasn't so bitter and angry with every-blasted-thing. He's got me and he's still angry?
As for Anders, tortured soul, good deed goes incredibly punished, yeah, yeah, yeah. As far as that goes, I believe the underlying environment of Kirkwall contributes much to that, but anyway. To be fair, he is more light-hearted early on, can at least be amused in conversations with Varric. He becomes more earnest/whiny as the game progresses. How about more of a struggle with him about what to do? Not just arguing same old same old with other companions. Or struggling about his relationship, as friend or lover, with Hawke? Keept the two of them from being one note ponies.
I think Isabela may actually show the most growth. Yes, she's still very Isabela at the end, but along the way, if you befriend her, she becomes less selfish. A bit. In Act III, if you're friends (I've never turned her over to the Arishok so don't know if I see her again) she will even admit that she doesn't miss her ship so much being with you. And if she's your LI, it seems to me that when she finally admits she loves you, it shows real personal growth on her part.
To get back to my point, make sure the companions have more depth, more opportunity to change based on their relationship with you. It should matter.beyond 'I like you' or 'I don't like you.'
Created about 21 days ago
There is one thing I definitely liked about DA2 over DAO, unless my imagination is playing tricks with me it seems as if the companions' banter was triggered more often without having to exit and re-enter an area. I liked that their conversations seemed to occur a bit more naturally, rather than one conversation in the middle of a lot of silence while traversing Hightown. And it made sense to me that they would occur more in the daytime than at night when you would have to be more alert.
Modifié par QueenPurpleScrap, 17 août 2016 - 04:41 .
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