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More Constructive Criticism starting today, March 22, 2012


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#51
Eudaemonium

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...
Games are cinematic experiences, not literary.  If being a literary experience is really better, we might as well go back to Text Adventures. 

Final Fantasy 7 is a cinematic game back then in 1987 and everyone want to follow. Games are not cinematic by nature. The first modern RPG is not cinematic. It's tabletop. It's JRPG that make cinematics their standard but that because they like animation.


JRPGs onyl really made the major-cinematic turn after FF7 (which was 97, not 87). Still, a fair number of JRPGs don't focus exlcusively on cinematics. Persona 3-4 is a good example, also some of the less big-budget ones on hand-helds and, of course, the latest iteration of Wizardry (but that's a different beast altogether). Its mainly Square that puts the focus on big-budget cinematic action.

That aside, JRPGs cater to a very different market. They are basically stories you play through. They've never really had the same kind of aim that WRPGs have regrding player interaction.

#52
Sacred_Fantasy

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Eudaemonium wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...
Games are cinematic experiences, not literary.  If being a literary experience is really better, we might as well go back to Text Adventures. 

Final Fantasy 7 is a cinematic game back then in 1987 and everyone want to follow. Games are not cinematic by nature. The first modern RPG is not cinematic. It's tabletop. It's JRPG that make cinematics their standard but that because they like animation.


JRPGs onyl really made the major-cinematic turn after FF7 (which was 97, not 87). Still, a fair number of JRPGs don't focus exlcusively on cinematics. Persona 3-4 is a good example, also some of the less big-budget ones on hand-helds and, of course, the latest iteration of Wizardry (but that's a different beast altogether). Its mainly Square that puts the focus on big-budget cinematic action.

That aside, JRPGs cater to a very different market. They are basically stories you play through. They've never really had the same kind of aim that WRPGs have regrding player interaction.

Thanks. I press the wrong numpad.  I edited my post to 1997.
 
Fair number of JRPGs that don't exclusively on cinematics were not as popular as FF7 to influence the world. FF7 did. JRPGs cater to very different market that is so true and that is where DA is heading if BioWare persist to be external ( you are outside the story ) instead of internal ( You are inside the story ) in their character design mindset.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 23 mars 2012 - 11:46 .


#53
empetus

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It has been an ongoing trend that games are becoming more cinematic so it makes sense that younger gamers or those who haven't played older games don't understand that it has not always been this way. Personally I hate the trend of trying to turn games into movie experiences, but I guess that sells these days. Cut scenes are stupid in my eyes and a waste of money in most games. Especially with graphical characters that can't emote worth a damn.

#54
nightscrawl

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Eudaemonium wrote...

They've already stated that silent protagonist is not on the table. They are going with voiced. People should really start exploring ways they can do a voiced protagonist with more customisation rather than asking for this, since it'd be far more productive and Bioware might actually implement some decent suggestions.

I know this is  sticking point with many people, but they've stated several times now that voiced protagonist is non-negotiable, so this discussion would move in far more useful directions if we could drop it. =(


Mike Laidlaw said it originally in his "Thank You!" thread, he reiterated it again in the Mark Darrah thread, and David Gaider also talked about it in this thread.

I hate to add to the harping on this, but Eudaemonium is exactly right. I understand that there are people who are unhappy with the voiced PC. I feel sad about it because I want others to like the game as I do and get the same level of enjoyment out of it. But, they are not going back. You must get over it. Continuing to want something when there is no possibility whatsoever of getting it, especially when you have no control over it (ie it doesn't rely on how much money you earn or other such aspects) is defeatest and will only detract from any possible enjoyent you can get from any future Dragon Age game.

You all need to think POSITIVELY! You need to suggest things that will make the current system better, rather than continue to hope for an option that is not going to happen.

#55
eroeru

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DeadPoolMK wrote...

Anyway... onto something different: I know a lot of people disliked the fact you couldn't give or buy new armor to companions. I didn't mind, because it kept your companions with a signature look. I don't want them to look like me or similar to each other.


:blink:

What the hell would this fix?? Adding different colors?? Letting the system be exactly the same!!?? Damn, this opinion seems infuriating at this time.

I'll go over the wheel again once. Though ultimately, I'd prefer a (option for a) silent protagonist, the wheel remains awful, as it exactly, without anything interesting gives you exact functions. You get the Fenris +1 and Anders -1 option, the opposite, and so forth, based on where the option is located. Damn, I want to be prompted to think the answer through - knowing what the function will be based on the location of the line is such that I feel the game makes fun of me, and degrades my intelligence. That's not how I want a game making me feel.

Also, many DA fans are NOT ME fans, or at least want something completely different in their Dragon Age. I for one despise ME in comparison to DA, though in itself, the games were quite well-done. But it simply feels not as a RPG, but more as ... I don't know. A mockery of my ability to think (if my preposition is that I'd need that in the game, and look forward to that - which I and many others often do).

Origins had me INVOLVED! DA2 DID NOT!

Add the possibility (or rather a not-invasive necessity) to use ones imagination and thinking ability, and you'll get a more deeply interactive game, that really has something MEANINGFUL to a player. Hence, the player can be more involved - thus the player can grow to feel with the game, and love it (on a deeper level, with more of the player's agency involved).

#56
eroeru

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Meris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

They're not going back to the silent protagonist. You might be better off telling them how to do a voiced protagonist that aggravates you as little as possible.


One that doesn't speak.


*claps hands*

#57
Corto81

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eroeru wrote...

Also, many DA fans are NOT ME fans, or at least want something completely different in their Dragon Age. I for one despise ME in comparison to DA, though in itself, the games were quite well-done. But it simply feels not as a RPG, but more as ... I don't know. A mockery of my ability to think (if my preposition is that I'd need that in the game, and look forward to that - which I and many others often do).


This is something that I feel hasn't been pointed out enough.

Dragon Age was it's own game, a fantasy, tactical RPG.
It did not need to be molded after Mass Effect 2, the whole thing simply does not work in a sword-and-sorcery RPG.

#58
Clertar

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 As someone who enjoyed more DA2 than DAO (I still loved both games) I would just ask developers to stay true to themselves and Bioware CRPGs. The way I see it, there are two things that are in the DNA of their games, from BG, IWD and PST to NWN and DAO: rich characters (like Morte or Annah, or Jaheira and Edwin, or Deekin and Aribeth, or Morrigan and Aveline, ... aside from great non-playable NPCs) and a rich texture of details throughout the game: the lore of Thedas that is mentioned all the time by NPCs, the awesome codex entries. For me that's the spirit of the DA games.

I really like the refreshing cultural restrictions on characters and themes that DA has: something tiring about the FR is that there was just everything from human Earth history. I carved som idiosyncracy, and DA has it. 

Storywise, I appreciate a lot what the DA team did with Hawke's story in Kirkwall. Instead of going with the umpteenth version of the LotR, of BG, IWD... they went and gave us a Coriolanus of Thedas. It was a really big story, and it felt my PC was really immersed in it not as the lone ranger saving the day, but as a part of it. Some aspects of customization were cut (races, mainly) but all the rest were brought one or two steps further: class had never had such an impact in a game, and the ways to interact with your companions and non-playable NPCs had never been so deep. That was truly nice to play.

Having separated origin stories was nice, but origins tied to races can be very problematic with a voiced-over PC. Why not something like faction origins? You would still get to pick your origin or background, regardless of your PC's race, as something like, let's say: a templar, a grey warden, a seeker, an apostate, a circle mage (could even be more than one: a loyalist circle mage and a libertarian circle mage). Less directly related to the mage-templar conflict could also be a mercenary/thief/smuggler/raider/pirate, a Tevinter mage, something Orlesian (noble, knight, bard...), a slave, a qunari (a la Tallis, not necesserily a kossith). That would set some of the PC's story prior to being thrown into the events of DA3, which is something that was a little missing from Hawke's past. I guess it could also be done without getting to play any of the origin, so just having it as a choosable background that shows up in particular moments of the common playthrough.

That's what I would say to the good ol' guys (and dolls) in the DA team: do not get discouraged about the negative reaction that some people had. It's done now, it worked, and while some details can be polished (namely, for me: (1) area diversity and (2) finding a way to concile big decisions, their lasting effect on the fictional world, and closure for the main character) I wouldn't mind the same concept or formula to be carried on to the next installment. I would actually love it.

Modifié par Clertar, 23 mars 2012 - 02:29 .


#59
Clertar

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..

Modifié par Clertar, 23 mars 2012 - 05:18 .


#60
Uccio

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More Origins, less DA2.

One of the posters made a excellent point about magic in the game. There is no actual use for the magic outside combat. This is something I also would like to see changed. For instance:

1. use blood magic to influence someone during discussion/ to get allies
2. use force magic to stick someone to wall to bully him/or break down doors etc.
3. use healing magic to cure someone.
4. start a fire.

And so on. There should be multiple ways to use magic in a fantasy game other than plain combat.

Modifié par Ukki, 23 mars 2012 - 03:01 .


#61
Uccio

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Corto81 wrote...

eroeru wrote...

Also, many DA fans are NOT ME fans, or at least want something completely different in their Dragon Age. I for one despise ME in comparison to DA, though in itself, the games were quite well-done. But it simply feels not as a RPG, but more as ... I don't know. A mockery of my ability to think (if my preposition is that I'd need that in the game, and look forward to that - which I and many others often do).


This is something that I feel hasn't been pointed out enough.

Dragon Age was it's own game, a fantasy, tactical RPG.
It did not need to be molded after Mass Effect 2, the whole thing simply does not work in a sword-and-sorcery RPG.





Exactly. I will not buy Dragon Effect game. One DA2 was enough for me.

Modifié par Ukki, 23 mars 2012 - 05:36 .


#62
DeadPoolX

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eroeru wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Anyway... onto something different: I know a lot of people disliked the fact you couldn't give or buy new armor to companions. I didn't mind, because it kept your companions with a signature look. I don't want them to look like me or similar to each other.


:blink:

What the hell would this fix?? Adding different colors?? Letting the system be exactly the same!!?? Damn, this opinion seems infuriating at this time.

I'll go over the wheel again once. Though ultimately, I'd prefer a (option for a) silent protagonist, the wheel remains awful, as it exactly, without anything interesting gives you exact functions. You get the Fenris +1 and Anders -1 option, the opposite, and so forth, based on where the option is located. Damn, I want to be prompted to think the answer through - knowing what the function will be based on the location of the line is such that I feel the game makes fun of me, and degrades my intelligence. That's not how I want a game making me feel.

Also, many DA fans are NOT ME fans, or at least want something completely different in their Dragon Age. I for one despise ME in comparison to DA, though in itself, the games were quite well-done. But it simply feels not as a RPG, but more as ... I don't know. A mockery of my ability to think (if my preposition is that I'd need that in the game, and look forward to that - which I and many others often do).

Origins had me INVOLVED! DA2 DID NOT!

Add the possibility (or rather a not-invasive necessity) to use ones imagination and thinking ability, and you'll get a more deeply interactive game, that really has something MEANINGFUL to a player. Hence, the player can be more involved - thus the player can grow to feel with the game, and love it (on a deeper level, with more of the player's agency involved).


First off, my idea would allow you to give your companions armor you find or buy while keeping their signature looks.  In other words, they all wouldn't look the same or similar to you.

As for "DA fans are not ME fans," that's simply not true.  I loved both DA:O and DA2, in addition to all three ME games.  Both DA games captivated me, but to be honest, DA2 had a more engaging story and interesting companions.  Sure, it also had reused areas and more bugs than a South American rainforest, but that's a technical issue.  

DA:O's story was nothing new.  It's been redone a million times since Tolkien.  I'm tired of being the one person in all the world who can save it from some mega-epic evil.  DA2 was a breath of fresh air in that you just a normal person caught up in the political and social events surrounding your newly adopted home.  It was more personal and down-to-earth.

I think some people are just too focused on recreating a tabletop PnP experience when that can't be done effectively in a CRPG.  The mediums are simply too different and because of that require an equally different approach.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 23 mars 2012 - 03:27 .


#63
Pasquale1234

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Eudaemonium wrote...

I found the DA2 system fine in most, but not all cases, but I'm not a hardcore roleplayer. Part of my history with JRPGs is that I tend to approach games very-much as being along for the ride, for the characters and the story, not to live out the elements of fantasy that WRPGs typically cater to with their customisation options and ability to insert the player directly into the narrative. The customisable interactivity was always a nice feature but it was never really key to my core engagement with the product. I would rather have more limited customisation and a character that acts and feels like a character within the narrative, which is why Hawke was perfect for me. Hawke is a character that can take many different forms (within defined limits), but s/he is still a character in the narrative, rather than merely a player avatar or vessel for projection.


... or for definition of the character by the player instead of the writers.

This addresses the reason why I really don't connect with Hawke.  Hawke feels to me like an NPC that I might direct at times, but who is being role-played by an actor who ad libs and puts his/her own spin and motives behind whatever choices I might make.  I'm not really role-playing when there is another actor playing the role; I am merely observing and (sort of) directing.

ETA:

DeadPoolMK wrote...
DA:O's story was nothing new.  It's been redone a million times since Tolkien.  I'm tired of being the one person in all the world who can save it from some mega-epic evil.  DA2 was a breath of fresh air in that you just a normal person caught up in the political and social events surrounding your newly adopted home.  It was more personal and down-to-earth.


The Warden was also just a normal person caught up in political and social events - the primary difference being the perspective of a newly recruited GW during a blight versus a refugee (and some Origins had sort of a "refugee" feel to them).

The Warden's story is as personal (or impersonal) as you chose to make it.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 23 mars 2012 - 03:53 .


#64
DeadPoolX

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Pasquale1234 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...
DA:O's story was nothing new.  It's been redone a million times since Tolkien.  I'm tired of being the one person in all the world who can save it from some mega-epic evil.  DA2 was a breath of fresh air in that you just a normal person caught up in the political and social events surrounding your newly adopted home.  It was more personal and down-to-earth.


The Warden was also just a normal person caught up in political and social events - the primary difference being the perspective of a newly recruited GW during a blight versus a refugee (and some Origins had sort of a "refugee" feel to them).

The Warden's story is as personal (or impersonal) as you chose to make it.

But it was still a rehash of the old "save the world from epic evil" storyline that's become so cliched it's almost a joke.

#65
Pasquale1234

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DeadPoolMK wrote...

But it was still a rehash of the old "save the world from epic evil" storyline that's become so cliched it's almost a joke.


There are some pretty good reasons why that story is used so often - it's much easier to get player buy-in.  There are a lot of players who have issues with motives like jealousy, vengeance, rescuing someone, etc. as the entire premise for a story.  I can't think of many reasons why someone would reject the premise of saving the entire world, including one's self.  It also provides player rewards in the form of successful achievement of objectives.

That said, Hawke's story is equally cliched.  Escaping disaster, then rags-to-riches.

Honestly - I don't think there are any new stories to be told, just a lot of different spins on old ones.

#66
cJohnOne

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Pasquale1234 wrote...

Honestly - I don't think there are any new stories to be told, just a lot of different spins on old ones.


I find your lack of faith disturbing.

#67
Maria Caliban

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empetus wrote...

It has been an ongoing trend that games are becoming more cinematic so it makes sense that younger gamers or those who haven't played older games don't understand that it has not always been this way.

I don't know a single gamer of any age that doesn't realize there have been silent protagonists. In fact, games aimed at the youngest demographics often don't have budgets for extensive VA. When my niece plays the fashion mini-mall browser game, she might get the occasional, "You go girl!" "Shoes are awesome!" or "A woman's self-worth is based on her clothing!" But mostly it's a collection of chirpy, soulless sounds and music.

Pasquale1234 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

But it was still a rehash of the old "save the world from epic evil" storyline that's become so cliched it's almost a joke.


There are some pretty good reasons why that story is used so often - it's much easier to get player buy-in. 

'It's easy' is not a good reason.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 23 mars 2012 - 05:04 .


#68
Clertar

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cJohnOne wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Honestly - I don't think there are any new stories to be told, just a lot of different spins on old ones.


I find your lack of faith disturbing.


http://www.objectivi...p?showtopic=174  :P

#69
Melca36

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[quote]DeadPoolMK wrote...


[quote]
Anyway... onto something different: I know a lot of people disliked the fact you couldn't give or buy new armor to companions. I didn't mind, because it kept your companions with a signature look. I don't want them to look like me or similar to each other.

However, for the people who really feel it's a major issue, why not have different signature classes of armor for each companion? What I mean is if you give a companion medium armor gauntlets, they'll appear to have a graphical representation of medium-class gauntlets on them, but using a style that fits the character. The same is true for all classes of armor.

This way you could give your companions gear that you can't or don't want to use. Granted, selling them was a good option too, but if you like a suit of armor and you can't use it, why let it go to waste? Best of all, if each character had their own look, each equating to whatever class of armor you give them, it'll keep them from looking like you or the same.

I hope I described that well enough. I have a feeling I didn't, so if someone wants clarification, please ask.[/quote]


It did NOT make sense for our companions to wear the SAME thing over a seven year span. :huh:

#70
Clertar

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@ Melca36

Some of them did change their clothes: Aveline had three (the light armour in the prologue, a city guard armour in the 1st act and a guard captain armour in acts 2 and 3) and Anders had two tunics. If you romanced Merrill and/or Isabela they also got new dresses.

Modifié par Clertar, 23 mars 2012 - 05:40 .


#71
Melca36

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Clertar wrote...

@ Melca36

Some of them did change their clothes: Aveline had three (the light armour in the prologue, a city guard armour in the 1st act and a guard captain armour in acts 2 and 3) and Anders had two tunics. Iif you romanced Merrill and/or Isabela they also got new dresses.




Aveline was fine....


But it did NOT make a difference for the other characters. They could have at least done it ME2 style.

#72
DeadPoolX

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Melca36 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...



Anyway... onto something different: I know a lot of people disliked the fact you couldn't give or buy new armor to companions. I didn't mind, because it kept your companions with a signature look. I don't want them to look like me or similar to each other.

However, for the people who really feel it's a major issue, why not have different signature classes of armor for each companion? What I mean is if you give a companion medium armor gauntlets, they'll appear to have a graphical representation of medium-class gauntlets on them, but using a style that fits the character. The same is true for all classes of armor.

This way you could give your companions gear that you can't or don't want to use. Granted, selling them was a good option too, but if you like a suit of armor and you can't use it, why let it go to waste? Best of all, if each character had their own look, each equating to whatever class of armor you give them, it'll keep them from looking like you or the same.

I hope I described that well enough. I have a feeling I didn't, so if someone wants clarification, please ask.



It did NOT make sense for our companions to wear the SAME thing over a seven year span. :huh:

Fine, but we don't know how much time will even pass in DA3.  For all we know it could take place over a couple of weeks or a several years. 

Regardless, I'm not against companion-specific clothing/armor if it's in the game.  In fact, I'd like to be able to buy clothes and armor for them; I just don't want them to look similar to me, that's all.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 23 mars 2012 - 05:42 .


#73
San Diego Thief

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1. Let us customize companions again
2. Different races and classes - you can find special quests where you can upgrade to even more specialized classes (think Final Fantasy)
3. Pickpocketing and opening locks
4. Ability to sneak and shoot spells at enemies before they can see you
5. Hidden magical items
6. Use lore to reveal pieces of powerful magical items that you can put together again
7. Tactical encounters..enemies that run away, steal from you, mages that cast silence, etc...
8. Dual classes where you can use any weapon combination or spell combination that you want
9. Huge map with a variety of environments and creatures - snowy, desert, forests, etc..
10. Allow us to be evil, neutral or good - have companions leave or join you depending on your alignment
11. Bring back non combat skills like persuasion, intimidate, charisma, etc..

#74
septembervirgin

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 Regardless of the reasons of Bioware difficulty, they make better games than other well known design groups.  I must state that once the furor eases and Bioware has smoother sailing, they should look into widening game-play types to better emulate the best of table top and the excellent opportunities shallowly explored in prior CRPG including their own.  

Remember the armies and keep in DAO?  What if we could spend time equally in traditional adventuring and (if we so wish) establishing an order or organization (within the context of pre-set structures) to extend our adventuring capability.  Even in AD&D there were rules for hirelings, henchmen, and followers with intimations that an AD&D adventure campaign could include sending armies and NPC leaders on missions and even sending hired adventurers to explore, gather information, and do menial adventure work (such as wipe out bandit enclaves).  This can be done enjoyably without damaging the story over much.

However, my primary suggestions here will be kept to what I feel can be quickly and capably done in the startling recent events.  Let us hope EA is learning that artisans cannot be pressured without causing harm to their output.

1. Reuse the material you couldn't use previously, adapting it to present situations.  Characters and dialogue need to be changed.  This isn't so hard as it might initially seem.  Anyone might be driven to a similar decision as any another person: their reasoning and justification and even method might vary but if it achieves the same general outcome that fits, it will do.  Remember not to leave the old dialogue responses and the way the event transpires must be tailored to the deed.  It's alot like writing adaptive dialogue options.

2. People keep telling Bioware to have NPC take slightly more realistic responses to dangers.  It might be a hard change from ease and accessibility.  Keep in mind that commoners won't be able to discern the difference between Blood Magic and normal magic even if there's alot of blood as the source of any wound could be obfuscated or unseen even in normal situations, with and without magic.  Let the players know that too.  Also should a character use blood magic in front of a specialist in detecting such things, the specialist is not likely to escape far (especially with save games).  As to fighting in public, you might want to minimize potential situations where that occurs.  It's really not as much a thrill as one would expect except when it's rarely done.
 
3. You guys are good at building mysterious evidence and establishing secret deeds done over decades.  Keep doing that.  Explain a few minor details that make people really happy but leave hints that wisdom is often an opinion based on misprision and barely perceived details.  Purpose should be cautiously shrouded.  Secret deeds should be offered to clue one in on the possibility of events being caused by other secret deeds.  Lies that spawn political events should be more frequent and deceptive in the way that Thedas lore might be deceptive.

4. The graphics aren't so heavily important so much as what you do with the graphics.  Eventually you will have the power to get Crysis type graphics.  Your MMO is gaining momentum.  As long as there's no "Hollywood Accounting", you'll get what you need.  Hope I'm not being too optimistic.

5. Don't conclude distant troubles too swiftly but please start using more animated cutscenes to portray distant affairs even if we have no influence over them and especially if the reported event and the cutscene portrays a lie -- although there should be sufficient doubt surrounding any distant report.  People love a cliffhanger as long as it''s a fictional character that's distant from their present perceptions; we don't want Hawke to be left on a cliff while we're playing DA2 but do put him on a cliff now that he's away (please).  Saving someone from a distance might be possible.  Have Ferelden put into strong jeopardy while the Wardens and Templars are busy.  Torment the players through occasional cutscenes of devestation and destruction far away.  This will increase demand for a future game in Ferelden.

6.  Sources of new opponents are many.  Where and what are the Fex?  Possessed animals and plants and statues haven't been done sufficiently.  Why not a possessed treasure?  Why not a certain mabari hound that's been possessed by a powerful demon and so gathers other mabari to cause trouble?  Maybe some mabari want to learn blood magic.  The Blood Hound Gang, call them.  Can Blood Magic alter the effects of the Taint (such might be hinted elsewhere, no spoiler intended)?  If so, tainted animals that are possessed might be as powerful as revenants.  Undead tainted griffons have probably been discussed in-house.  Finally, sea creatures aren't detailed very well.  Might a society of amphibeous "krakens" with hands terminating their tentacles be building in the Dark Roads and starting new monsters based on old animals using a mixture of technology and a different form of shape-shifting magic?  Things from beyond the silvered pane of an eluvian might be slithering and oozing into Thedas.

7. Potential for longer dialogues even with non-companion NPC might help give a feeling of depth to the game world.  What did Jarvia do in her spare time before my character bloodied her pixels?  Something I noticed is that in Ferelden villains don't make friends easily; it's a stereotype of villains throughout shallowly made fictions and overdone.  That should be remedied.  Just because an NPC is in opposition to the PC party or might be in opposition doesn't mean they shouldn't have free time and friends, penpals even.  If you include NPC reactions (like Approval meters in DA2) for major NPC and not just Companions, you should have reason to include more gifts and quests that don't require much journeying.

8. New character classes can be made based on commonly expressed needs.  Also renovating old classes (like bards, champions, arcane warriors) could be usefully done.  It sounds like a Champion in its role of tactician to discuss plans and tactics, both generalized and specific, before a battle.  Hence, outside battle a Champion might be able to buff the group with a bonus in a large area for a long period of time but with a slow timer for re-use or give buffs to individuals, or even increase enemy ability (level) to increase experience point output.  Rangers might be able to summon hostile animals and be able to laden areas with summoned nature traps, make inexpensive resources temporarily available for use.  Bards should be able to summon a human rogue if rangers are able to summon animals, be able to access a "bardic bank" that permits loans but with an automated pickpocket collection service in cities (someone just picked your pocket and then runs away into the shadows!) with resaonable interest rates which include taking expendable items at normal cost up to the amount owed.  Arcane Warriors should be more carefully done this time and quite possibly might be the body of any elven rebellion.

What about Necromancers (Fade Mages) though -- a type of Blood Magic that allows the summoning of demons and shades and such with the possibility of wisps, demons and shades attacking ones party (extra experience, extra trash too).
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#75
Morroian

Morroian
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Corto81 wrote...

This is something that I feel hasn't been pointed out enough.

Dragon Age was it's own game, a fantasy, tactical RPG.
It did not need to be molded after Mass Effect 2, the whole thing simply does not work in a sword-and-sorcery RPG.


DA2 and ME 2 and 3 feel completely different to me not in any sense similar games.