178 réponses à ce sujet

[Sacred_Fantasy]

nightscrawl wrote...

Did you ever get to play Neverwinter Nights?

Yes I have. One of my favorite classic RPG of all time. It's the reason why I came across DAO. I was looking for ATARI and Neverwinter Nights 3. ( I'm still looking and waiting for it )

nightscrawl wrote...

It was pretty much DnD rules in a rendered environment, with Bioware acting as the DM having written out the story before hand. There were alignments, dice rolls, all of that good stuff. Yes, people will say (as they have been saying for many RPGs over the past decade) that there weren't options that let you be REALLY evil (ie you had to do some things in a certain way in order for the story to progress) if you wanted, but since everything is pre-written and scripted, there are limitations on systems like alignments.

Those alignment is more than just sarcastic, diplomatic and aggressive or Paragon vs renegade. It's the principle of what and how to draw a line in personalizing your character. Not only that it' is a principle to your character action whether you act as lawful good or true neutral or arguable evil or whatever alignment is there, making it possible to roleplay in many ways with many characters. 

nightscrawl wrote...


If group play (with other real people) is important to you in an RPG, well NWN had that too, and you could have people make their own story modules, which they then acted as the DM in direction the action through the game's mechanics. I'm not sure how heavy the RP got with this since I never played in that scenario, but the possibility is still there.

After NW 2 and Daggerfall, I confined myself 24/7  in MMORPG for years  I'm well aware of advantages and disadvantages of playing with other people.

The point is Roleplaying allow you to play a role in a story. You are the hero of the story. This is what I believe for ages regardless I play TES ARENA or Pure D&D games like SSI and TSR Forgotten Realms series. Regardless of party based RPG like Realm of Arkania where I get to create the entire party or single player adventure like The Exile or TES Arena. 

Now every possible guides for wide range characterization including multiple race selection down to multiple choice of actions and consequences is torn apart for simplicity and linearity. Now I cannot be the hero of a story in favor of some predefined character X..People argue what you did don't matter or non responsive character or,  limited design or this and that. I don't give a damn with all those things. I just want to be a hero in a story. Why can't I?  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 25 mars 2012 - 05:41 .

[WardenWade]

Yes, as has been mentioned above, in addition to a return of playable races, please return the Origins-style appearance of the elves. For my part, I miss their brow ridges/nose breaks.

[Adanu]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Meris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

They're not going back to the silent protagonist. You might be better off telling them how to do a voiced protagonist that aggravates you as little as possible.

One that doesn't speak.

Hmmm... you know, it'd be easy for them to make an option that allows players to choose whether or not the main character is voiced.  Sure, they'd still say whatever it is they're saying (it'd just show up as text), but then you wouldn't have to hear the character's voice, tone and inflection.  You could imagine your own. 

Of course, that might force people to use subtitles and I know some individuals hate those.  I use them all the time, but I've also suffered some hearing loss as a child, so they don't bother me.

NO... it really wouldn't. Both are different narratives, and half the time when I'm using a silent protaganist I can't tell if I'm going to be sarcastic or not in tone. Anders in a prime example of this in awakening.

WardenWade wrote...

Yes, as has been mentioned above, in
addition to a return of playable races, please return the Origins-style
appearance of the elves. For my part, I miss their brow ridges/nose
breaks.

So you want humanish elves again? Please no.

Modifié par Adanu, 25 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[DeadPoolX]

Adanu wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Meris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

They're not going back to the silent protagonist. You might be better off telling them how to do a voiced protagonist that aggravates you as little as possible.

One that doesn't speak.

Hmmm... you know, it'd be easy for them to make an option that allows players to choose whether or not the main character is voiced.  Sure, they'd still say whatever it is they're saying (it'd just show up as text), but then you wouldn't have to hear the character's voice, tone and inflection.  You could imagine your own. 

Of course, that might force people to use subtitles and I know some individuals hate those.  I use them all the time, but I've also suffered some hearing loss as a child, so they don't bother me.

NO... it really wouldn't. Both are different narratives, and half the time when I'm using a silent protaganist I can't tell if I'm going to be sarcastic or not in tone. Anders in a prime example of this in awakening.

Overall, I tend to agree.  I was just trying to reach a common ground with the silent protagonist group.

[Blessed Silence]

Amycus89 wrote...

Personally I prefer a silent protagonist, but I can understand if Bioware wish to make him voiced, since that (unfortunately) seems to be what the majority of people want. That being said it can still be improved a lot from the system in DA2, which currently suffers from a lot of problems that I really think needs to be adressed in the next game:

*The abbreviations used in DA2 makes it hard to predict how Hawke will actually respond.
Suggestions:
-Write out the whole sentance of a selection, without using abbreviations. Of course, this has the problem with that it might not be so fun to hear a line voiced out right after you have already read it.

Games have done this for YEARS, heck even the Witcher does it.   So what is wrong having them saying the entire sentence?  I'd love to hear the accents, and different inflections one says reading a sentence (remember it's not what you say it's HOW you say it that mirror's your emotions).

[DeadPoolX]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Personally I prefer a silent protagonist, but I can understand if Bioware wish to make him voiced, since that (unfortunately) seems to be what the majority of people want. That being said it can still be improved a lot from the system in DA2, which currently suffers from a lot of problems that I really think needs to be adressed in the next game:

*The abbreviations used in DA2 makes it hard to predict how Hawke will actually respond.
Suggestions:
-Write out the whole sentance of a selection, without using abbreviations. Of course, this has the problem with that it might not be so fun to hear a line voiced out right after you have already read it.

Games have done this for YEARS, heck even the Witcher does it.   So what is wrong having them saying the entire sentence?  I'd love to hear the accents, and different inflections one says reading a sentence (remember it's not what you say it's HOW you say it that mirror's your emotions).

I think the reason they use the dialogue wheel is that it makes easier for console players, who use gamepads with analog sticks, d-pads and buttons.  They probably figured that controlling the dialogue wheel is just as easy with a mouse (and it is), so why not make it a system that both platforms can easily control?

I'm not saying I think the dialogue wheel is fantastic or that I'm necessarily against writing out the whole sentence.  But for console gamers, I imagine selecting a text sentence (without the use of a mouse or keyboard) might be more difficult than the dialogue wheel. 

[DJ0000]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

I think the reason they use the dialogue wheel is that it makes easier for console players, who use gamepads with analog sticks, d-pads and buttons.  They probably figured that controlling the dialogue wheel is just as easy with a mouse (and it is), so why not make it a system that both platforms can easily control?

I'm not saying I think the dialogue wheel is fantastic or that I'm necessarily against writing out the whole sentence.  But for console gamers, I imagine selecting a text sentence (without the use of a mouse or keyboard) might be more difficult than the dialogue wheel. 

Not true, in the tree system we just had up, down and x to select, easy as pie.

With the dialogue wheel we are forced to use the analog sticks, I often find it  requires more effort to select the correct responses and sometimes as I click the selected option changes and ends up selecting something else instead.

If that was the rationale they used I think it was  a bit misguided. 

[Lord Gremlin]

DJ0000 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

I think the reason they use the dialogue wheel is that it makes easier for console players, who use gamepads with analog sticks, d-pads and buttons.  They probably figured that controlling the dialogue wheel is just as easy with a mouse (and it is), so why not make it a system that both platforms can easily control?

I'm not saying I think the dialogue wheel is fantastic or that I'm necessarily against writing out the whole sentence.  But for console gamers, I imagine selecting a text sentence (without the use of a mouse or keyboard) might be more difficult than the dialogue wheel. 

Not true, in the tree system we just had up, down and x to select, easy as pie.

With the dialogue wheel we are forced to use the analog sticks, I often find it  requires more effort to select the correct responses and sometimes as I click the selected option changes and ends up selecting something else instead.

If that was the rationale they used I think it was  a bit misguided. 

Exactly. I play on PS3 and in DA2 I've accidently selected wrong line several times. It never happened in DAO.

[Amycus89]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Personally I prefer a silent protagonist, but I can understand if Bioware wish to make him voiced, since that (unfortunately) seems to be what the majority of people want. That being said it can still be improved a lot from the system in DA2, which currently suffers from a lot of problems that I really think needs to be adressed in the next game:

*The abbreviations used in DA2 makes it hard to predict how Hawke will actually respond.
Suggestions:
-Write out the whole sentance of a selection, without using abbreviations. Of course, this has the problem with that it might not be so fun to hear a line voiced out right after you have already read it.

Games have done this for YEARS, heck even the Witcher does it.   So what is wrong having them saying the entire sentence?  I'd love to hear the accents, and different inflections one says reading a sentence (remember it's not what you say it's HOW you say it that mirror's your emotions).

I actually agree, but I think I remember that a Bioware dev mentioned before that they didnt like the idea of having to read a sentance, and then hear the same line again voiced.

[slashthedragon]

Amycus89 wrote...

I actually agree, but I think I remember that a Bioware dev mentioned before that they didnt like the idea of having to read a sentance, and then hear the same line again voiced.

I still don't get why this would be a problem.
Did any of the devs say *why* they don't like that idea? 

[Jitter]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Darrah and Laidlaw have already confirmed that they won't be returning to a silent protagonist. No point in arguing it's merits or lack thereof.
What I want is a story with a goal in mind for the duration of the game and an important PC. DA2 felt aimless and Hawke just happened to know famous people. It was confusing to me why the Chantry would care more about Hawke than Anders.

Good to know , however as someone who invests money. 
I think this borders on insider trading. 

They just confirmed poor sales results . 

Short sell EA for the win!!

[Mmw04014]

slashthedragon wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

I actually agree, but I think I remember that a Bioware dev mentioned before that they didnt like the idea of having to read a sentance, and then hear the same line again voiced.

I still don't get why this would be a problem.
Did any of the devs say *why* they don't like that idea? 

It was Mike Laidlaw who said it and I don't think he gave a reason other than that was his preference.

I, however, want to read the entire line. It might be tedious, but I'd rather that than have my character saying things that I never intended for her to say. The paraphrases just don't cut it and I don't think they ever really could.

[eroeru]

Adanu wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Meris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

They're not going back to the silent protagonist. You might be better off telling them how to do a voiced protagonist that aggravates you as little as possible.

One that doesn't speak.

Hmmm... you know, it'd be easy for them to make an option that allows players to choose whether or not the main character is voiced.  Sure, they'd still say whatever it is they're saying (it'd just show up as text), but then you wouldn't have to hear the character's voice, tone and inflection.  You could imagine your own. 

Of course, that might force people to use subtitles and I know some individuals hate those.  I use them all the time, but I've also suffered some hearing loss as a child, so they don't bother me.

NO... it really wouldn't. Both are different narratives, and half the time when I'm using a silent protaganist I can't tell if I'm going to be sarcastic or not in tone. Anders in a prime example of this in awakening.

 


So what you're saying is that you wouldn't like the OPTION of silent protagonist?? Why? Just because you have an irrational love for DA2, and want all to be done exactly in its vein?

[PinkShoes]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Bring back a persuasion system.


In DA2 it annoyed me that certain outcomes (for instance making peace between the elves and the former werewolf on the Wounded Coast) were only available to certain "tones" of Hawke. I felt I had to metagame the tone system to get the outcomes and dialogue I wanted, which was frustrating as hell because you had to keep track of conversation responses. Please give us back a persuasion system we can invest in, either points like in DA:O or time like in the ME3 reputation system.

completely agree.

[Rorschachinstein]

I don't want to kill a companion because I forgot to rack up persuasion points. I'm looking at you Wrex.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I've played DAO on the PS3 (though not in a long time) and on the PC. I never had a problem selecting dialog. One of the problems with the DA2 approach is that the result may not match the icon, or at least your definition. Perhaps the best solution is to have a better icon/paraphrase system, with the added option of showing the whole sentence (either via the options menu, mouse hovering, or even automatically show after a 2-second delay). I also like the idea of having the option to turn off the voice of the protagonist. Even though I did like the actors who did the voices for male and female Hawke.

One argument which does not make sense to me is the whole written v. spoken dialog. In both Origins and DA2 characters were speaking to each other. The context was provided by where they were in the game, the environment, and at least one character's body language. When reading a book, I have found the best dialog is the dialog I can 'hear' in my head as I read the words. Presumably, when writing a script for actors to follow it should be written the way people talk. Why wouldn't that concept be the same for voiced v. non-voiced characters? They are still screenplays.

More realistic textures for the characters. Unfortunalely, the hair in DA2 looks too much like hairpieces you can put on Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head. Some of the npc's also looked plastic, not like people. Saemus is an example, but is hardly the worst I"ve seen.

Better quality control, such as identifying important plots and saving them properly, and then making sure they can be imported properly in the sequel, whether an expansion pack or a separate game. Make sure all quests initiate properly and can be completed. I understand that with the variety of equipment people use, not all issues can be identified, but these are basics.

Please redesign the elves. I can understand why somebody wanted to further differentiate them from humans, (I was fine with their appearance in Origins), but these are too far. Fenris hardly looks typical of the elves in the game, Merril doesn't match her clan, and why were the Dalish made that greenish color? I have a feeling if you had shown a scene of what the clan might look like, you would have heard a lot more about it before the game was released. In Origins, Zevran was an elf, and he looked like an elf. The differences between Fenris and other elves, and between Merrill and her clan are far greater than between Zevran and other elves whether Dalish or Alienage.

[Morroian]

Mmw04014 wrote...

It was Mike Laidlaw who said it and I don't think he gave a reason other than that was his preference.

They have given reasons, they have feedback from the majority of those playing their games that reading the whole line then listening to it being said is redundant. I fall into that basket. That doesn't mean they shouldn't offer an option to show the whole line though.

Modifié par Morroian, 25 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[nightscrawl]

Mmw04014 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

I actually agree, but I think I remember that a Bioware dev mentioned before that they didnt like the idea of having to read a sentance, and then hear the same line again voiced.

I still don't get why this would be a problem.
Did any of the devs say *why* they don't like that idea? 

It was Mike Laidlaw who said it and I don't think he gave a reason other than that was his preference.

Here is the actual post, if anyone needs a source for this.

[Morroian]

nightscrawl wrote...

Here is the actual post, if anyone needs a source for this.

They have talked about this beyond that recent thread, they gave reasons when talking about it when DA2 was in development well before it was released.

[eroeru]

I would like to ask someone of Bioware:

Will you consider an option for a silent protagonist? Like something enabled in the options menu...

[DeadPoolX]

It seems a lot of the negative feelings that're toward the voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel is "I don't know what I'll be saying."  So why not implement the dialogue system they used in Deus Ex: Human Revolution?

Here's a screenshot of a conversation: thousandhp.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/2011-08-29_00002.jpg

You get four different choices, with the tone given to you, and when you hover over an option, it'll give you some the word-for-word dialogue that Adam says.  Adam's still a fully voiced protagonist, but this system tells people "this is what I'm saying and how I'm saying it."  There are no surprises in the end.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 25 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[EverettWalker]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

EverettWalker wrote...

Hey Bioware Team,
I loved the game I have beaten it five times and uploaded four different characters with many different stories and backgrounds. I am really impressed with the work you put into it. In saying that I would like more closure for my team. I just don't want shepard to die after romancing liara and not having an asari shepard. I want to know what planet they landed on and since my shepard has not died in any endings what can I anticipate for him/her in the future. I loved at the end where the grandfather was talking to his grandson and they eluded to a fourth installment or more DLC. I am not mad by any means. I understand that the ending was meant to relate to the player the depth of the sacrifice that sheperd and the crew made. Though I, as a fan who played ME2 for almost a year straight without touching another title, need closure. what happens to Vakarian, Vega, T'soni, Clan Urdnot, Joker, Zaed, Kasumi, EDI, Williams/Alenko, to the giant Fleet I brought to fight the reapers now that the mass relays are destroyed????

Hmmm... two problems here:

1. You're talking about Mass Effect 3 and this is the Dragon Age 2 forum.

2. You've revealed spoilers regarding ME3's plot and this is a "no spoiler" forum.

oh I'm sorry I must have clicked the wrong link there. Sorry about that.

[Amycus89]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

It seems a lot of the negative feelings that're toward the voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel is "I don't know what I'll be saying."  So why not implement the dialogue system they used in Deus Ex: Human Revolution?

Here's a screenshot of a conversation: thousandhp.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/2011-08-29_00002.jpg

You get four different choices, with the tone given to you, and when you hover over an option, it'll give you some the word-for-word dialogue that Adam says.  Adam's still a fully voiced protagonist, but this system tells people "this is what I'm saying and how I'm saying it."  There are no surprises in the end.

As long as they dont fall in the trap of deciding "we are going to have one AND ONLY ONE response for each tone, in every conversation". I would like there to be  situations where there is more than one option that is diplomatic for example, in some conversations. 

So basically, start writing the dialogue as in DA:O, and THEN  when that is finished, make the voice overs for the protagonist and categorize each response with an appropiate symbol. Then I will be happy at least.

Modifié par Amycus89, 25 mars 2012 - 11:40 .

[Maria Caliban]

slashthedragon wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

I actually agree, but I think I remember that a Bioware dev mentioned before that they didnt like the idea of having to read a sentance, and then hear the same line again voiced.

I still don't get why this would be a problem.
Did any of the devs say *why* they don't like that idea? 

Because people skipped through the VO in testing. After reading the line, they didn't want to listen to it.

[Dejajeva]

I've said this before, but I'm down with more hair! The mods come up with so many awesome varieties, but I play on console and only get ten of the exact same hairstyles from origins. The only awesome hair is default fem hawke but that leads me into another char creation gripe. I loveeeee default hawke. She's gorgeous and someone really put a lot of time into her...but how hard would it be to let me tweak her a little, change her eye color or hair color? That would have been just perfect. Keep default chars in the game, just let us make minor changes to them. I have other ideas but I'm on my phone and its too hard to type them all out.