84 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Just to be clear, we haven't said what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)-- whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all. All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways (whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of their choices.

[Sutekh]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

Sorry sutkh but its cannon that the warden has to be a warden. if your character didnt want to be a warden then awakening wouldnt of happend. I suggest you kill yourself at the end of origins if u dont want to see the warden again. thanks.

I read Sutekh's post as being about the armor, not about the status of Warden. As in, the Warden need not, and may not care to, wear the trappings of the position - and thus, a generic-looking, helmeted Warden may not work for all players. 

Yep. That was exactly my point.

@Aldaris:

I didn't mean my canon Warden isn't a warden, and I wonder how you could read that, tbh. I meant, he's a Dalish before being a Warden and, given the choice, would wear Dalish-styled armor rather than shemlen-made armor. This was important for me and his characterization enough that I deprived him of many better armors because I wanted him to stay true to his Dalish identity, even if it was stupid of him sometimes. He's also a rogue / archer / hunter type with low strength and simply couldn't wear a massive armor. 

That was the beauty of DAO. You would play a Warden because the plot dictated it, but you didn't have to play a "Marine type" Warden ala NCIS Gibbs who would put that above everything else. The DAO / DAA epilogue slides and DAO final questions ("What are you going to do?") made that very clear.

Finally, as nightscrawl said, up until DA2, there was no official Warden uniform. The DLC Warden's Keep is where the Warden Commander armor comes from. Not everyone has played it, and it could be resolved in a way where you wouldn't get the W-C armor. 

So if in DA3 my future PC stumbled upon a guy wearing full massive W-C armor w/ helmet, I wouldn't go "Squeeeee! That's my Warden", but "Who the hell are you and what have you done with my baby?" (and then probably kill him, because how dare he?). The whole cameo would be pointless and slightly infuriating.

I'm sorry, but there are things with which I don't compromise. My Warden is one of them.

And, again, what about mages?

[Pzykozis]

Would prefer if they left old PCs out of the equation theres a fair bit of work there to try and get them in as they were, I mean what would you have to remake your warden in character creation and outfit him just so that he could be in game? My canon was a mage who didn't want to be a warden at all and left with morrigan in the end, turning up in random warden commander armour would be hilariously bad.

I'm more for recognising the effect these people had on the world and making that effect more prominant than including a cameo or appearance in anyway, just sounds awkward, even more so when you have an old pc there whilst you're controlling a new one just sort of blech about the whole thing.

[CarlSpackler]

Pzykozis wrote...

Would prefer if they left old PCs out of the equation theres a fair bit of work there to try and get them in as they were, I mean what would you have to remake your warden in character creation and outfit him just so that he could be in game? My canon was a mage who didn't want to be a warden at all and left with morrigan in the end, turning up in random warden commander armour would be hilariously bad.

I'm more for recognising the effect these people had on the world and making that effect more prominant than including a cameo or appearance in anyway, just sounds awkward, even more so when you have an old pc there whilst you're controlling a new one just sort of blech about the whole thing.

I agree, I would be fine if they kept the references to my DAO and DA2 characters to a minimum.  I certainly want references to the blight and the mage/templar conflict, acknowledging my warden and hawke's existence but I'd rather Bioware focus on making DA3 a great game versus spending a lot of resources on importing a slew of choices that would likely have minimal effect on the game anyways.

[CENIC]

I think that the players who desperately want a cameo of their characters would be horribly disillusioned if it actually happened.

The only character it could possibly work for would be Hawke, and even then it's a stretch. The Personality System would keep at least some consistency, but I doubt that would be enough for the truly hardcore roleplayers.

Personally, if they HAVE to bring both characters back, I think they should be thralls of the new Ancient Evil.
It would explain any inconsistencies, and also why the Warden and Hawke disappeared together despite potentially having very different philosophies.

Of course, that then brings up the problem of, what if the player would save the Warden (they loved Origins) but would rather kill off Hawke (they hated DA2)?

Games with choices sure are difficult to implement properly!

[Wulfram]

I'd just have previous PCs appear in various rumours, some of which could be contradictory. Which would allow the player some freedom in what they want to believe, and reflect their passage into legend.

[Sutekh]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd just have previous PCs appear in various rumours, some of which could be contradictory. Which would allow the player some freedom in what they want to believe, and reflect their passage into legend.

Nice idea

I was thinking letters, myself, either from or about them. Rumors, mentions, this sort of things. With an accurate import, they could be specific enough you would recognize your Warden / Hawke but not needing to go into too many details, avoid mis-characterization / story and clashing too hard with headcanon.

Honestly, what they did in DA2 with the mentions, especially from former companions, would have been quite satisfying it if weren't for the bugs.

Oh, and only in passing. I don't want those future PCs of mine to feel as though they're unimportant, can't stand the comparison, or the memories of the Warden and Hawke looming ominously all over the whole thing. But yeah, some sort of acknowledgment would be nice.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

And just as much, it would hardly be fanservice to have your old PC show up with someone or doing something with motivations provided by BioWare which the player never would have intended them to do in the first place. Even take something like the Warden going through the Eluvian with Morrigan. The rationale the player may have given the player character for that could be rather different- maybe they went with her just to be romantic lovers, maybe the Warden went with her to be a father to the Old God Baby (or normal baby) he had with Morrigan, or maybe he went with Morrigan to act as a check against whatever dangerous stuff Morrigan's plans might entail (since the player has no clue what she is up to). So I think if we're going to have old PC's in any kind of cameo or reference or whatever, the player character's motivations for their current state need to be accounted for too, by the player.

I wouldn't necessarily like it if my Warden ended up just being a lacky for Morrigan should she show up in the future with the Warden in tow. Maybe it would be possible to have the player establish these sort of things within the game as a new PC so that when the cameo does occur, its based on the player, even if indirectly. So if you've got a new PC in DA3 and later in the game your new PC meets up with Morrigan and the Warden, perhaps early in the game the PC is chatting about rumors of the Warden and via a dialogue choice you could establish things.

Thats saying nothing of the fact that the Warden is a non voiced PC and I wouldn't want him to cameo with some odd voice that throws the player off from the start.



But conversely it would be just as jarring if a former NPC/companion like Alistair or Morrigan were to show up without the old PC around, given how those stories can end. Sure, you can conveniently write them off or handwave them as to why they aren't around, but again, thats kind of supplying motivations to old player characters that might not make any sense given how the player would have played them. At the very least, I'm hoping that those plot centric old NPCs like Morrigan or Alistair who can be so very much influenced by the Warden act differently based on their relationship. Like, a stabbed Morrigan who was denied the OGB  might act differently than a Morrigan who romanced the Warden and went through the Eluvian with him to raise the OGB. So even if the Warden isn't directly around, seeing how he/she influenced NPCs like that would be welcome.



Ultimately, what I would love to see beyond cameos and such would be having segments of future games allow the player to take control of their old player characters. Not necessarily for any lengthy period of time but not unlike how its done in The Witcher 2 where you can control certain characters like at the beginning of a new chapter/act of the game. That way you don't end up with the disconnect and possible inconsistencies of BioWare hijacking your old player character and doing something the player never would have had them do- or at least it would give the player some chance to voice displeasure at being forced in some plot direction, instead of passively having to watch your old PC do something odd. Especially as the series expands, it would be a fantastic opportunity to show and not tell. It would keep the player actively involved and would avoid issues like having the Warden either be oddly voiced all of a sudden or strangely mute (since the Warden is simply not voiced, he's not a mute).Maybe just have those segments purely story based so you don't need to worry about combat skills and so forth, but it keeps the player's version fo the story consistent.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[Melca36]

David Gaider wrote...

Just to be clear, we haven't said what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)-- whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all. All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways (whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of their choices.

For what its worth, I think two of the best cameos in DA:2 were Teagan's and Leliana's.


I especially liked Teagan's if you chose the "No Compromise" Prebuilt History.

[Realmzmaster]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Clearly you guys didnt read the posts by david gaider and mark. Also If they dont do a warden cameo you just know the immature fans would complain and rate the game 0 on metacritic. They arnt on forums because DA3 being made isnt world spread news yet.

I read every post. The executive producer Mark Darrah and the Lead Designer Mike Laidlaw simply said they would bring closure to the events that Hawke started. It said nothing about cameos for either the warden or Hawke.
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444  (look at the bottom post) Mark states closure will be bought and not in a playable form. That does not mean cameos. It could simply mean Hawke's love Interest or friend (Varric or Aveline) telling the new protagonist that Hawke died a hero's death figting to protect a village from attack.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 23 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Rorschachinstein]

cJohnOne wrote...

If everybodies Warden and Hawke look different how would you have a cameo?

Import a la Mass Effect 2 shepard style

David Gaider wrote...

Just to be clear, we haven't said
what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)--
whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all.
All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she
began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo,
or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former
PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding
them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be
fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and
my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it
at all.

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series
with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different
projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and
DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the
greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be
the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over
multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never
suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the
imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways
(whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards
to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of
their choices.

importing Hawke would be pretty basic for a Cameo according to personalities we could get on DAII

Nice Guy

Funny Guy

Jerk.

Modifié par Rorschachinstein, 23 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[WardenWade]

David Gaider wrote...

Just to be clear, we haven't said what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)-- whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all. All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

[....]

So a significant reappearance of the Warden is a possibility?  This I like!   Furthermore, IIRC on the Darrah thread it was mentioned that even though Hawke and the Warden would not be protagonists for DA3 the devs would reevaluate their possibility for return as PCs for future DA titles.  I don't feel my Tabris' story is over by a long shot and I would be absolutely thrilled to play him again.

It sounds, perhaps, as though you believe a reappearance that could satisfy all canon choices is not impossible, David.  This is intriguing indeed!  Thank you for weighing in on this!

Modifié par WardenWade, 23 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[David Gaider]

WardenWade wrote...
It sounds, perhaps, as though you believe a reappearance that could satisfy all canon choices is not impossible, David.  This is intriguing indeed!

Satifying game canon choices, yes. Satisfy head canon-- probably not. There are people who possibly imagine in their head what their character went on to do as a result of their choices, and there's no chance we could respect all imagined possibilities if a character was revisited... but that would be true even if the character was playable.

That doesn't really bother me, though. I'll violate head canon at will. I think we can do variances based on game canon choices better than we did in DA2, however, depending on the resources we have on hand-- all it requires is unique content (ie. content that someone sees only if they have that variation, and ideally that content would be more than just alternate dialogue lines). The more resources we have to provide unique content, the more consequential we can make imported canon choices.

Will we get those resources? Ideally, yes-- but it's best to wait on such promises until we can prove them.

[Mmw04014]

Do people truly want this? People really want their previous characters to show up and do/say things that are completely out of their control? No matter how the game manages to accommodate for the players decisions/set personality, the characters will cease to be our own and become just more NPC's.

I hope I never see my Warden or Hawke again.

Modifié par Mmw04014, 23 mars 2012 - 07:35 .

[Wulfram]

A playable return to a previous PC is different because there's more of a point to it - going to be warden-commander might be a bit of a stretch for the character, but at least you're getting a whole expansion about it. And at least you're maintaining some control over the character

[Sabriana]

My Warden is done and lives on in my head-cannon. Nobody will mess with her, and if you try, I will simply ignore you. I have successfully done so by refusing to purchase any DLC or any literature that messes with my Head Cannon. Simple as that.

I never, ever want to see or hear from Hawke again.

Just make a new protag, and I'll check it out. If it's any good, I'll purchase it.

[Rorschachinstein]

mayrabgood wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

*snip*

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways (whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of their choices.

I always wondered if DA was meant to be a trilogy so it's good to know that it's not. I kida like it that every game has a new protagonist with a new story line relating to Thedas. Having the same protagonist throughout every game like in Mass Effect does make you feel closer and feel more for your character, but of course this a whole different style of game. I'm just glad that DA3 won't be the last...hopefully.

I hope it doesn't rule out an RTS neither

[Maria Caliban]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Nonsense, All our wardens have their own armor, But when he would need to address people he would wear his warden commander armor from awakening so people could identify who he is. If your in the army you dont change out of your uniform in a battle.

Un. Accept. Able.

Dead Legion or nothing.

/hardcore

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 23 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[Aldaris951]

Thank you for posting David Gaider. In mike laidlaws slideshow we saw a picture of morrigan at the end so its safe to assume shes in DA3 my warden went with her, I hope he will be there for a cameo beside her or at least referenced by morrigan.

[seraphymon]

David Gaider wrote...

Just to be clear, we haven't said what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)-- whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all. All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways (whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of their choices.

This is what sorta bothers me. its been understood about about DA not being a trilogy, and all that.
The part that bugs me the most, and i assume for most is closure. Yes for some people they have closure, for their wardens. But for others that survive, go through the eluvian,  is mentioned in DA2 at the end, its like you enjoy giving the middle finger to us, with all the foreshaodwing that he could return, in some form in future content. Even though i hate Hawke your doing the same with him, dissapears yadda yadda story unconcluded. Adding a new protag each game, just causes this pileup higher and higher

[BubbleDncr]

David Gaider wrote...

Just to be clear, we haven't said what we're doing regarding Hawke (or the Warden, for that matter)-- whether it be a cameo, a follower slot or no personal appearance at all. All we said with regards to Hawke is that any resolution of what he/she began would come in the next installment.

Could we do a cameo, or something more significant? Yes, but if we do one (for either former PC), it would need to be respectful of the player's choices regarding them-- most if not all-- or what would be the point? It'd hardly be fanservice to see a character that has no relation to your import, and my personal take on it is that unless we did so we should avoid doing it at all.

As much as people might try to conflate the DA series with Mass Effect (understandably, I suppose, as it's two different projects from the same company), Dragon Age is not a trilogy. DAO and DA2 were self-contained stories that each contributed towards the greater arc of Thedas' history, and any future game(s) would likely be the same. If someone is expecting to play the same character over multiple titles, they're looking in the wrong place-- as we never suggested that would ever be the case. My hope is that we do the imported states more effectively, and use them in more significant ways (whether it be about these particular characters or not), with regards to the ongoing history of Thedas that the player is impacting by way of their choices.

If Hawke showed up as a follower, I would be the happiest person ever.

Most people probably don't share my view, but I'm fine with not being able to control Hawke as long as her dialog was flavored with the tone I gave her. I imagine you'd also set it up so that Hawke's beliefs (pro mage or pro templar) matched who Hawke sided with in DA2.

So....I'm expecting only vague mentions of Hawke, would be excited if she showed up for one cutscene, and would jump for joy if she's actually ends up a party member.

[WardenWade]

David Gaider wrote...

WardenWade wrote...
It sounds, perhaps, as though you believe a reappearance that could satisfy all canon choices is not impossible, David.  This is intriguing indeed!

Satifying game canon choices, yes. Satisfy head canon-- probably not. There are people who possibly imagine in their head what their character went on to do as a result of their choices, and there's no chance we could respect all imagined possibilities if a character was revisited... but that would be true even if the character was playable.

That doesn't really bother me, though. I'll violate head canon at will. I think we can do variances based on game canon choices better than we did in DA2, however, depending on the resources we have on hand-- all it requires is unique content (ie. content that someone sees only if they have that variation, and ideally that content would be more than just alternate dialogue lines). The more resources we have to provide unique content, the more consequential we can make imported canon choices.

Will we get those resources? Ideally, yes-- but it's best to wait on such promises until we can prove them.

This is true.  I have head canon of my own for my Tabris, but I can't expect DA3 to read my mind and accommodate every one of his choices   I love the idea that a robust reappearance (as you said, more than some dialogue or perhaps a brief cameo, and potentially even as much as a follower option) could indeed be possible, given the resources and having chosen the required game canon variation.  And as you mention, it's the same situation that would of course need to be addressed anyway for a playable returning character.

I'm very happy to see that you appear optimistic that the resources to make a possible reappearance significant to the story of the game will be there.  I look forward to seeing this possibility proven   I realize it is, as you note, very early days but it gives me some hope that in DA3 I may indeed see--and perhaps in some future DA title potentially play as--my Warden again some day and in some form.

Thank you for the response, David!  I truly appreciate your insight on this.

Modifié par WardenWade, 25 mars 2012 - 01:20 .

[ev76]

I think hawke's siblings have a better chance for a cameo/party member regardless of who survived, and would have a great role in this fight. They can also be used for info as to hawke's whereabouts. I would assume morrigan would mention the warden if indeed you interact with her.
Either way I can't wait until the info for da3 arrives.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I'm tired of cameos. Am I the only person that gets the feeling of a contrived story as soon as I see familiar characters just turning up out of the blue for little or no reason at all? Make some new characters, it isn't that hard!

I'm fine with Dragon Age games not following a singular plot or placing emphasis on a partuclar hero. I'd rather not see Hawke again as the main character or even as a briefest NPC part, and some of my Wardens died so that's not plausible. I'm really hoping character creation actually has options this time around and the concept of Origins return to add flavor to DA 3 but I'm not holding my breath.