84 réponses à ce sujet

[Demx]

Remember that line from Awakening: Who do you think will win in a fight: Andraste or the Archdemon? Do a little of that with the Hero of Ferelden and Hawke. But actually make it so that there is a bar fight. Then the player can pick a side and beat up everyone who disagrees. Or if the player is feeling saucy, allow him to say he could take them both on, and have the player fight the entire bar.

[jackofalltrades456]

I'd like a little more closure with my Warden and Hawke.

I confess, I would have been perfectly happy with my Warden's ending if Awakening and Witch Hunt (if I didn't go through the mirror that is) never came out. Since those endings just gave us " the Warden vanished', his story never felt concluded for me. An in-game cameo Warden would be very hard to do properly without pissing off the fan base. I can just immediately picture topics titled" BIOWARE RUINED MY WARDEN!!!!!!". If the Warden did make an in-game cameo, it would most likely be in the form of a five second thumbs up at the end of the game. I wouldn't mind having a text epilogue at the end that would be like" And then the Warden's LI reunited with their lover and had lot's of babies," or "Some say that the Warden finally returned to Denerim to recruit the next generation of Wardens."

Hawke would be much, much easier to give a cameo to since he is a single character as a imposed to the multi-origin Warden. The whole personality system from Dragon age 2 would make this much easier as well. I can still only see it as an extremely minor one at best though.

[Rorschachinstein]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

I'd like a little more closure with my Warden and Hawke.

I confess, I would have been perfectly happy with my Warden's ending if Awakening and Witch Hunt (if I didn't go through the mirror that is) never came out. Since those endings just gave us " the Warden vanished', his story never felt concluded for me. An in-game cameo Warden would be very hard to do properly without pissing off the fan base. I can just immediately picture topics titled" BIOWARE RUINED MY WARDEN!!!!!!". If the Warden did make an in-game cameo, it would most likely be in the form of a five second thumbs up at the end of the game. I wouldn't mind having a text epilogue at the end that would be like" And then the Warden's LI reunited with their lover and had lot's of babies," or "Some say that the Warden finally returned to Denerim to recruit the next generation of Wardens."

Hawke would be much, much easier to give a cameo to since he is a single character as a imposed to the multi-origin Warden. The whole personality system from Dragon age 2 would make this much easier as well. I can still only see it as an extremely minor one at best though.

Yes, i'm assuming a Hawke cameo would be the only one possible considering he survives the whole events and the only difference between everyone's Hawkes is personality and appearance. Which Bioware can handle with ease.

[Parahexavoctal]

I've come to have significant emotional attachment to my Warden and my Hawke. As such, any kind of closure, especially in cameo form, is a double edged sword.

If it is done right, it will very likely make me squee in glee. I absolutely loved hearing people in DA2 talk about my Warden and what she accomplished. I wasn't thrilled with the idea my warden had disappeared, but I could make up a satisfying head canon for that. I was even less pleased that my warden had apparently left her love Leliana in the dark, with Leliana showing no signs of the powerful romance they shared in any of her appearances.

On the contrary, if it is done 'wrong', it would be very upsetting to watch. And by 'wrong', I'm talking of my subjective interpretation of my characters as well as the kind of closure I would like to have for them. While the current status of both Warden and Hawke lacks some closure, both managed to survive the stories and ride off into the sunset with their love interests to do further adventures. If they were killed off, broken up, or given any number of tragic or bittersweet endings I'd be quite displeased.

All this is even before we begin tackling the issues of actually making them appear in the game. My (head) canon warden was played on a heavily modded DA:O, so even the most detailed of import data probably wouldn't come close to reconstructing her likeness. At best, I could hope for a silent cloaked & hooded figure of the height and shape of a female elf. Hawke is a bit easier in this regard given that I couldn't mod her as heavily as I would have liked (*grumble*grumble*). But Hawke at least has a defined voice actress and the dominant personality thing.
If an actual appearance is made, it's probably best to keep it short. The longer it is, the greater the chance that cameo warden/Hawke would do/say something that horribly violates my attachment to the character.

[jackofalltrades456]

Parahexavoctal wrote...

If it is done right, it will very likely make me squee in glee. I absolutely loved hearing people in DA2 talk about my Warden and what she accomplished. I wasn't thrilled with the idea my warden had disappeared, but I could make up a satisfying head canon for that. I was even less pleased that my warden had apparently left her love Leliana in the dark, with Leliana showing no signs of the powerful romance they shared in any of her appearances.

Agreed.

What pissed me off about Dragon age 2 was it's treatment of Leliana's and Zevran's romance. I felt like they never really gave us a proper conclusion to them in comparison to Alistair's and Morrigan's. It just ended with them traveling with my Warden for a bit then parting ways.

[whykikyouwhy]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

Parahexavoctal wrote...

If it is done right, it will very likely make me squee in glee. I absolutely loved hearing people in DA2 talk about my Warden and what she accomplished. I wasn't thrilled with the idea my warden had disappeared, but I could make up a satisfying head canon for that. I was even less pleased that my warden had apparently left her love Leliana in the dark, with Leliana showing no signs of the powerful romance they shared in any of her appearances.

Agreed.

What pissed me off about Dragon age 2 was it's treatment of Leliana's and Zevran's romance. I felt like they never really gave us a proper conclusion to them in comparison to Alistair's and Morrigan's. It just ended with them traveling with my Warden for a bit then parting ways.

I regret that my post has minor spoilers...

While more circulation of a rumor mill, or casual mentions might have been nice, I don't think there was really a reason for either Leliana or Zevran to be overly candid about their individual relationship with the Warden and thus bring out some sort of conclusiong or closure to the player. Other than Isabela, there isn't anyone amongst the DA2 companions that either rogue would know. So when addressing Hawke, someone unknown to them, someone they just met, why would they talk freely about emotions or riding off into the sunset or any grand adventures and romantic dinners that were had? Thus, the mention of the Warden, if at all, is vague (which may also be a way to not conflict with head canon).

Now, if either character bumped into Wynne, Oghren, or Shale in DA2, there might be more to say, since those characters all knew the Warden and spent considerable time with the Hero and the rogue.

[schalafi]

I would have been happy with a dlc clarifying a little better what happened to Hawke and companions, but  since a cameo can't accomplish that, I really would rather just imagine what MY Hawke, and npcs did after the ending than have it messed up with some unrelated cameo, especially if their appearances are changed, as with Alistair, Zevran, and Nathaniel. Just move on to the DA3 story.

Modifié par schalafi, 24 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Meris]

My Warden may have ended up dead but I'd rather that if he appeared on a cameo, it was under my control. He is my character after all.

[syllogi]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

Parahexavoctal wrote...

If it is done right, it will very likely make me squee in glee. I absolutely loved hearing people in DA2 talk about my Warden and what she accomplished. I wasn't thrilled with the idea my warden had disappeared, but I could make up a satisfying head canon for that. I was even less pleased that my warden had apparently left her love Leliana in the dark, with Leliana showing no signs of the powerful romance they shared in any of her appearances.

Agreed.

What pissed me off about Dragon age 2 was it's treatment of Leliana's and Zevran's romance. I felt like they never really gave us a proper conclusion to them in comparison to Alistair's and Morrigan's. It just ended with them traveling with my Warden for a bit then parting ways.

I regret that my post has minor spoilers...

While more circulation of a rumor mill, or casual mentions might have been nice, I don't think there was really a reason for either Leliana or Zevran to be overly candid about their individual relationship with the Warden and thus bring out some sort of conclusiong or closure to the player. Other than Isabela, there isn't anyone amongst the DA2 companions that either rogue would know. So when addressing Hawke, someone unknown to them, someone they just met, why would they talk freely about emotions or riding off into the sunset or any grand adventures and romantic dinners that were had? Thus, the mention of the Warden, if at all, is vague (which may also be a way to not conflict with head canon).

Now, if either character bumped into Wynne, Oghren, or Shale in DA2, there might be more to say, since those characters all knew the Warden and spent considerable time with the Hero and the rogue.

Well, considering that there was a bug in DA2 that has never been fixed that makes Zevran completely forget that he was ever in love with the Warden in DA:O, I think that it's beyond not wanting to be overly candid.   I can see your point about Leliana, but when LI cameos are handled as badly as Zevran's, and they are not considered worthy of a patch, then I'd rather have not seen those characters at all in the new game.

[Aly666]

How come bioware keeps saying thier trying to give what us as fans want but instead come on the forums to admit da2 failed and thier throwing it in the can and moving on. Already working on da3 probably making it soo they can attract a new crowd.

[seraphymon]

because it is first and foremost all about money. but on a smaller scale im willing to bet more people want them to move on and start on abigger main game such as DA3, than just sticking with DA2.

[Lunar Savage]

Sutekh wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I'd just have previous PCs appear in various rumours, some of which could be contradictory. Which would allow the player some freedom in what they want to believe, and reflect their passage into legend.

Nice idea

I was thinking letters, myself, either from or about them. Rumors, mentions, this sort of things. With an accurate import, they could be specific enough you would recognize your Warden / Hawke but not needing to go into too many details, avoid mis-characterization / story and clashing too hard with headcanon.

Honestly, what they did in DA2 with the mentions, especially from former companions, would have been quite satisfying it if weren't for the bugs.

Oh, and only in passing. I don't want those future PCs of mine to feel as though they're unimportant, can't stand the comparison, or the memories of the Warden and Hawke looming ominously all over the whole thing. But yeah, some sort of acknowledgment would be nice.

Actually, I'd love it if my future character felt unimportant or if the legacy of the Warden was looming all over the story. Something that he struggles to live up to. Or even better, he faces some unfinished business caused by a mistake my past character made and now he's torn about how to handle it. Honor the Warden's wishes or forge his own path.

[Great_Horn]

Melca36 wrote...

[snip ... ]


For what its worth, I think two of the best cameos in DA:2 were Teagan's and Leliana's.


I especially liked Teagan's if you chose the "No Compromise" Prebuilt History.

And where is Anora’s or Loghain Mac Tir’s cameo?  At least DA:A tries to reflect those player decisions.

[Aly666]

Who cares about the wardens ..... i thought the whole darkspawn thing gets boring after awhile but origins was a masterpiece. I bought all the dlc for origins , i doubt moneys the problem. If they came out with the expansion , dragon age 2 could do a full 360 depending on how the story connects

[Great_Horn]

Aly666 wrote...

Who cares about the wardens .....

I do.
The only "Warden" who is still important is the one who did the DR, and especially the one who went together with Morrigan thru the Eluvian. If the developing team gives us closure (DLC) to this loose ends, a lot of people would have freedom.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 25 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Sutekh]

Great_Horn wrote...

The only "Warden" who is still important is the one who did the DR, and especially the one who went together with Morrigan thru the Eluvian. If the developing team gives us closure (DLC) to this loose ends, a lot of people would have freedom.

Why, if I may ask?

I get the DR is kinda mandatory for a Warden closure since otherwise they're a bit dead, but how does going through the Eluvian make a Warden more deserving of closure than not? I'd think the Eluvian thing is closure by itself, is it not? It certainly felt like it for the only Warden of mine that did it.

Modifié par Sutekh, 25 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[Great_Horn]

Personally , I think Morrigan's Ritual per se makes the Warden special. This particular Warden shares a certain Future-Time-Perspective, leaving the question how to use this extra time. To me, going thru the Eluvian was only the beginning from something new. The responsibility for his child doesn’t end in front of the Eluvian.

[Sutekh]

Great_Horn wrote...

Personally , I think Morrigan's Ritual per se makes the Warden special. This particular Warden shares a certain Future-Time-Perspective, leaving the question how to use this extra time. To me, going thru the Eluvian was only the beginning from something new. The responsibility for his child doesn’t end in front of the Eluvian.

True. But the way I see it, what happens beyond the Eluvian is off-Thedas, and so doesn't belong to the Thedas Chronicles that is the DA franchise. It could make for an awesome storyline, but there are so many possibilities there, including (but not limited to) a nice family retirement. It's really a matter of personal vision and headcanon.

Tbh, my question was directed at "and especially the one...", which seems to hint that Eluvian-Warden was somehow more important or, at least, more in need of closure than any other Warden. That would mean all female Wardens, all Wardens who didn't romance Morrigan, all Wardens that romanced her but broke up or didn't feel like pursuing said romance to the point of crossing the looking glass with her, and all Wardens that stabbed her, for various reasons. That's an awful lot of Wardens.

And I truly believe that those DR Wardens that didn't eluvian their way out are, in fact, more in need of closure than those who did. Witch Hunt final scene was incredibly frustrating in that regard, especially after showing us a "book of interest" and telling us in DA2 they had mysteriously disappeared. At least, said mysterious disappearance can be explained if they eluvianed. I've yet to find a valid reason for the guy in my avatar to pull a Houdini (but I'm working on it )

[SmokePants]

I don't believe player characters should ever be seen or heard from again. In the last 6 months, there was a game released where you meet no less than TWO former playable characters and it is an unsettling, jarring experience that undermines the current playable character. It's better to let them go. Clinging to old attachments is rarely a healthy mode of behavior.

[katiebour]

Zevran's romance flags did not set correctly in DA:O due to a coding error, which led to "garbage in" during the import to DA2. Zev is bugged because of DA:O importing and can't really be fixed unless A) Bioware patched DA:O to correct and then you replayed Origins to fix the flags or C) they gave us a DLC like Genesis for Mass Effect, allowing us to explicitly set import choices.

As for closure, selfish me says "I don't care what happened to YOUR Warden! I want to know what happened to MINE especially with her Antivan lover haring around Thedas starting a Crow civil war."

Hell with the eluvian and little miss Morrigan (remember if you wed a hardened Al to Anora and recruited your last party member, then you didn't have to do the DR and there IS no god-baby ), tell me what happens with my Antivan elf!

[Wulfram]

Sutekh wrote...

Why, if I may ask?

I get the DR is kinda mandatory for a Warden closure since otherwise they're a bit dead, but how does going through the Eluvian make a Warden more deserving of closure than not? I'd think the Eluvian thing is closure by itself, is it not? It certainly felt like it for the only Warden of mine that did it.

You can live and not do the DR.  Just have someone else take the blow.

[nightscrawl]

Sabriana wrote...

I have successfully done so by refusing to purchase any DLC or any literature that messes with my Head Cannon. Simple as that.

I never, ever want to see or hear from Hawke again.

Just make a new protag, and I'll check it out. If it's any good, I'll purchase it.

As far as Hawke in Asunder is concerned, you have no fear on that count. No mention is made of Hawke whatsoever or who was sided with in the Kirkwall climax. Anders is mentioned by name a couple of times, but it's not specified whether he is alive or dead, only that he committed his act on the Chantry.

For DAO and Asunder, it's a bit trickier, since you may not have had Shale, or may have made specific choices regarding Leliana and Wynne in the game. However, nothing about the Warden is specified, whether s/he made the Ultimate Sacrifice or did the Dark Ritual, or who is ruling Ferelden. Other than those three DAO companions, David did a great job of leaving our games alone. Even if you romanced Leliana, nothing about her personal life or interaction with the Warden is mentioned so that's very open as well.

[Brockololly]

Sutekh wrote...
True. But the way I see it, what happens beyond the Eluvian is off-Thedas, and so doesn't belong to the Thedas Chronicles that is the DA franchise. It could make for an awesome storyline, but there are so many possibilities there, including (but not limited to) a nice family retirement. It's really a matter of personal vision and headcanon.

Its only headcanon until BioWare inevitably brings Morrigan back into the picture and have to account for why they don't bring back the Hero of Ferelden or the OGB or the regular baby back as well. What will they do with those Wardens that went with her to "face the future together" in that case? Saying that whatever happens beyond the Eluvian is off limits is goofy too- thats like saying everything in the Fade is off limits.

[Sutekh]

 

Brockololly wrote...

Its only headcanon until BioWare inevitably brings Morrigan back into the picture and have to account for why they don't bring back the Hero of Ferelden or the OGB or the regular baby back as well. What will they do with those Wardens that went with her to "face the future together" in that case? Saying that whatever happens beyond the Eluvian is off limits is goofy too- thats like saying everything in the Fade is off limits. 

Didn't say "off-limits", but "off-Thedas". Could be ten kilometers away, a hundred years in the future, Planet X, Las Vegas, Wonderland, where no man has gone before or a parallel universe ala Fringe. The Fade is different because it's charted territory, sort of, if only by mages. At this point in the lore, there's no way to know where and when the Eluvian leads. Plus, it's the way I see it.

I didn't say that going through the Eluvian was automatic closure, because I have no say in what people imagine happened there; I only said that Wardens who did it had potentially more closure than those who didn't, who didn't have any closure at all (given by the game).

And yeah, good luck to the writers when they bring back Morrigan.

Wulfram wrote...

You can live and not do the DR.  Just have someone else take the blow.

True that. Me needs to play some DAO.

[Arivle]

To be honest I don't care about cameos. :-) I want to be the one and only (unique and the greatest) hero, so as soon as Hawke came, Warden died for me (I actually chose a predefined ending like that instead of my import) and the same will be for Hawke in DA3. Speaking of which - I'd like lot more if DA series would pick a constant hero like Shepard was.