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[JohnnyG]

Edit: Please follow the links and do your own research on these topics if you feel they are inaccurate in anyway.

Readers, this is a new thread, because the old one was locked.  I have been given permission to start a new one.  Please keep things civil!

Also, I had mentioned that I had gotten the quotes from somewhere.  It turns out they were from a thread formed by cato_84.  I just wanted to be sure he gets the props he deserves.  Thanks cato_84!

Anyhow, on to the feedback that the co-founder of BioWare requested.

Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,

Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3.  In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).

Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released.  As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3.  Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.

If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake?  I didn't think so.  So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.

So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem.  I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote.  Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.

We want to believe in you again, BioWare.  Please do the right thing and don't let us down.

--

For readers of the thread, not Bioware: Here is the definition of advertising from dictionary.com since a few trolls have claimed the quotes are not really advertising...

[ad-ver-tahy-zing] noun
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.

Even if they didn't pay to have their quotes published, they still are defined as advertising by the first part of the definition.  So no matter what, it is still false advertising.

--

Update: I have shifted the quotes around so that they are in two groups, pre-gold and post-gold (which happened on 2/13/12) based on the following link...

http://www.gamespot....es-gold-6350250

As you should be aware, once a game goes gold, no futher changes can be made to it.  Thus, the statements that are post-gold were made regarding the version you now own right now (and not future DLC).  They are sorted by date (which I also added for each).

Pre-Gold

[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 4/28/11
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]



[quote][quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 8/24/11
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
Edit: According to the user Our_Last_Scene, I am deceitful and nothing I say should be trusted because I was not aware that after this particular article was released that Mike Gamble posted a correction on Twitter. I am not sure how me being unaware of his statement (since I don't use Twitter) makes me deceitful, but I have edited this to include the following...

twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/106895746313363457

"wow, there are a lot of out of context quotes floating around the net today! yep, the reapers can win. its called critical mission failure:)"[/quote]



[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 1/10/12
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 2/2/12
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.
BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 2/2/12
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 2/6/12
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]

Post-Gold

[quote]Official Mass Effect Website (Still there)
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director) 2/17/12
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 2/23/12
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 2/28/12
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 3/2/12
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 3/5/12
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 3/7/12
Issue 108 of 360Gamer (Hardcopy only, not available online)

When asked about the science of the game being plausible

"From very early on we wanted the science of the universe to be plausible. Obviously it's set in the future so you have to make some leaps of faith but we didn't want it to be just magic in space."[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director) 3/8/12
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]

Edit: Just wanted to point out that I got these great quotes from another post that was done several days ago.  They just came back to mind after reading Ray's blog.

Edit 2: Per feedback from origamicyclone, I added the line about "Lost" to the EuroGamer quote.

Edit 3: Per feedback from IhateEA-Mask, I added the last quote regarding space magic.  I also added the definition of advertising since a few people have trolled about it.

Edit 4: Arranged the quotes into pre-gold and post-gold categories.  I also put the date the articles were written.

Edit 5: After being accused of being deceitful by Our_Last_Scene because I was unaware of a clarification tweet that Mike Gamble made, I have updated the post so that it contains that clarification from Mike. I apologize to anyone else who thinks I was being purposefully deceptive. I simply did not know that the tweet existed. I am not sure how I am supposed to somehow know every possible tidbit of information that BioWare posted on the Internet regarding ME3, but that wasn't the point of this thread anyhow. It was to point out the promises that were made to us by BioWare before the product came out, and ask that while they are working on the fix that whatever they give us meets the promises they made.

Modifié par JohnnyG, 03 avril 2012 - 09:40 .

[Johnnycide]

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

[Thomas Abram]

We have locked a handful of threads on this subject due to them getting out of hand. Please keep this civil, constructive and on topic to avoid the samething happening here.

[JohnnyG]

Thomas Abram wrote...

We have locked a handful of threads on this subject due to them getting out of hand. Please keep this civil, constructive and on topic to avoid the samething happening here.

Thanks Thomas.  If people start getting out of hand we will let you know.

[Sharkey1337]

Did the last one really get closed? Shame, this is such an important topic to keep up. My hopes have been lifted that Bioware will address this as Jessica mentioned that they were fully aware of the situation yesterday.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Thanx for posting this, I wanted to see the legit quotes ppl were talking about before I agree with them.

[Paparob]

Again I'm not sure I'd use the term false advertising, but intended or not people were misled as to what the final product would be. A lot of people where.

[Talogrungi]

There is no denying that a large part of the disappointment felt by fans upon reaching the end of the game series is due to the promises that were made (and subsequently broken) by the Bioware development team.

I don't really have much more to add to the discussion than that, but I wanted to add my voice in support of a well written OP.

Hold the line!

[Vasparian]

You call it false advertising, I call it bioware lying to their fan base.

[Generic Name]

Vasparian wrote...

You call it false advertising, I call it bioware lying to their fan base.

In other terms false advertising.

[Hicks233]

We can only hope that lessons are learnt from this whole situation so that it doesn't happen again.

Glad that this is still open for discussion with civility.

[RShara]

I think a lot of the disappointment is the meeting of the letter and not the spirit.
*Technically* we got a bunch of different endings. *Really* we got a bunch of color tweaked cutscenes. And so forth. Did we expect more, oh yeah. Did Bioware technically meet what they promised? To the letter and not a dot more

[phrizek]

Someone needs to get this to the Forbes guys. I would like to see their take on all of this.

[Faunwea]

You should put this in the feedback thread.

[nevar00]

There's another quote out there about how you'll be rewarded for staying loyal to your ME 1 love interest, and how there will be consequences if you weren't. I can't remember where I saw that though, I'm thinking a GameInformer?

[joe1852]

i just call it peter molyneux syndrome

[jspiess]

Generic Name wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

You call it false advertising, I call it bioware lying to their fan base.

In other terms false advertising.

Lots of speculation and space magic

[Reptilian Rob]

Thanks for re-posting OP!

[Silveralen]

Thomas Abram wrote...

We have locked a handful of threads on this subject due to them getting out of hand. Please keep this civil, constructive and on topic to avoid the samething happening here.

We will try! Also, thank you for warning us rather than locking it premeptively.

Also, when I saw the little Bioware sign underneath the topic name......... I thought a Dev was going to finally comment. Oh well

[Sparse]

I think this has been a major part of the problem.

I don't think it was a calculated plan to mislead people, the quotes are from people at Bioware who are not in marketing and PR so it could very well be that they just got overenthusiastic or were trying to whip up interest and not being professionals at doing it got it rather wrong.

It is something they need to look at going forward because I think a big part of the reaction from so many - particular pre-order customers - who bought the game based partly upon the 'this is what will be in' statements is down to this. There would have been far less reaction had the statements quoted not been made.

I don't think that people should expect Bioware to publically admit that there was an issue or that they are doing anything about it, because I'm sure there will be obscure legal issues involved, but I agree that it is something they should look at, understand and avoid doing in future.

Modifié par Sparse, 22 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Darthlawsuit]

Thomas Abram wrote...

We have locked a handful of threads on this subject due to them getting out of hand. Please keep this civil, constructive and on topic to avoid the samething happening here.

Why lock the thread? Just warn the people causing the problem. It is like carpet bombing Berlin to try to kill Hitler when he is standing on a roof flipping you off ready for a precision air strike.

[Ebannaw1]

Lies, lies, and oh wait.

More lies.

Wait...not too uncivil am I?

[The Angry One]

I cannot stress enough how important these promises were, along with BioWare's reputation, in my preorder of the Collector's Edition.
I spent the extra money because I wanted the best version of what I was certain would be an epic story shaped by my actions.

Instead, well you know. The point is you cannot point to "artistic integrity" when you promised us, again and again, something different.

[DarkSpider88]

Those are almost painful to read now.. Okay if any us decide to come around for the next game I really hope BioWare either delivers what they are saying or reign in their over hype. Also from these quotes one could possibly make the argument that the company broke a verbal contract with the fans, which we accepted the contract when we bought the game.

This one is my favorite!

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.
BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”

What we got: Speculation!

Modifié par DarkSpider88, 22 mars 2012 - 09:31 .

[FortitudeSon]

Hope Bioware can address these discrepancies and restore faith in the brand.