612 réponses à ce sujet

[Clayless]

Liber320 wrote...

You're sounding extremely biased right now.

The OP was unaware of one piece of information that I'm sure most people without a twitter account were aware of, and you're acusing him of either being decietful or inept.

It's starting to sound like you just have a thing against people who are angry/displeased/frustrated with Bioware and are doing whatever you can toshoot them down.

You need to think of it logically:

People are going off the OP's word here. The OP claims Bioware are liars, yet it's been proven that the OP's word is suspect, and not everything he claimed was true. There is nothing that seperates that one quote from the rest of the quotes, what makes you trust everything the OP says now that it's shown his word can't be trusted?

The only way to know if Bioware were lying is if you investigate it for yourself, which undermines this entire thread.

[Disciple888]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

FlyingCow371 wrote...

The OP might not have been leaving things out on purpose. Granted, I am bad at twitter, but it seems a lot easier to search/find media articles/quotes than it is to find a post from twitter. And media outlets feel like a more substantial and reliable source of information than twitter, at least to me.

As far as having a legit reapers win ending...that would be cool. The game that comes to mind that did that sort of ending well was Chrono Trigger. They legit had a bunch of endings, and they were actually different, and things you did in game mattered.

It's irrelevant if it was on purpose or not, the conclusion is the same, the OP cannot be trusted.

Either he was puposely using deceit whilst ironically calling Bioware liars or he never knew about it (which I'd think is unlikely given his collection of quotes) which would undermine the rest of his post as how many other quotes have been clarified?

The end result is if you want the truth, the OP is the wrong place to look.

strong logic is strong

do you know what "cherry picking" is?

[DJBare]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

The end result is if you want the truth, the OP is the wrong place to look.

Well how about a PM to the OP?, or like your assumptions are we to assume you are in fact here to discredit the OP?

Modifié par DJBare, 03 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[tenojitsu]

Personally, I dont find that twitter is the correct place to correct incorrect comments if that isnt where the comment was originally made . You should reveal any corrections to an inaccurate statement using the same outlet in which the incorrect statement was initially made. To me, that is deceitful and is a shows lack of courage, almost like hoping nobody notices. You are telling one audience one thing while telling another audience another. If I told my boss in person that test "A" was a success, and then further study of the data shows negative results, I would go back and tell him in person, not leave a post-it on his desk.

Modifié par tenojitsu, 03 avril 2012 - 02:41 .

[Liber320]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Liber320 wrote...

You're sounding extremely biased right now.

The OP was unaware of one piece of information that I'm sure most people without a twitter account were aware of, and you're acusing him of either being decietful or inept.

It's starting to sound like you just have a thing against people who are angry/displeased/frustrated with Bioware and are doing whatever you can toshoot them down.

You need to think of it logically:

People are going off the OP's word here. The OP claims Bioware are liars, yet it's been proven that the OP's word is suspect, and not everything he claimed was true. There is nothing that seperates that one quote from the rest of the quotes, what makes you trust everything the OP says now that it's shown his word can't be trusted?

The only way to know if Bioware were lying is if you investigate it for yourself, which undermines this entire thread.

That's grossly misinterpreting the situation

THe OP made one mistake, you called him out on it. If he checks the thread regularly, he will most likely correct it.

And you're not supposed to take his word for it, hence the reason he provided links to all the articles he quoted. It is up to the reader to do follow-up research if they believe it to be necissary. The same is true with any other piece of journalism.

Humans make mistakes.
Everyone is human.
Everyone makes mistakes.

[RockyRoberts]

Let's avoid any attempt of derailment.

This is a discussion forum...the OP has rehashed something that people are asking for clarification. Are they lies? Or are they what we should expect in 21st century marketing? Even from Bioware?

Hopefully you are reading all (or at least multiple) posts within the thread to get a better sense of you own opinion...but don't forget that last part.

One question I have is: how does [essentially] one static ending animation (w/3 colors) illustrate the product you have sold us? Specifically in regards to Hudson on "No A, B, or C ending..."??

Modifié par RockyRoberts, 03 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[Clayless]

Liber320 wrote...

That's grossly misinterpreting the situation

THe OP made one mistake, you called him out on it. If he checks the thread regularly, he will most likely correct it.

And you're not supposed to take his word for it, hence the reason he provided links to all the articles he quoted. It is up to the reader to do follow-up research if they believe it to be necissary. The same is true with any other piece of journalism.

Humans make mistakes.
Everyone is human.
Everyone makes mistakes.

There is nothing to seperate the rest of the quotes from that one though. Clicking his link, you wouldn't have known that Bioware clarified it and weren't actually lying, you would instead assume it was yet another lie that Bioware told. Doing your own investigating you'd realised that they weren't actually lying, and it would show that the OP was actually using deceit. For someone who wanted us to do our own investigating, it makes me wonder why he provided all those quotes in the first place. Surely a "Bioware are lying, but to find out you'll have to research yourself" would've sufficed.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's just unfortunate for the OP that this mistake has undermined his entire post.

[Alamar2078]

Devil's Advocate: IIRC [no I don't want to find a link] didn't one of the "big guys" say a little before launch than any "reaper win" scenarios were removed???

[Mystiq6]

This article sums it up quite well: http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

I'm among those people who felt physically ill at the ending, and then spent a few days depressed (and I still am, to a small degree). It's an impressive feat for a game to achieve this. For some reason, playing "An End Once and for All" and "Das Malefitz" off the soundtrack makes me feel better because it brings back the emotion from the charge through no-man's land and everything up to right before the Catalyst and what I expected the ending to be, rather than what I got.

I guess I can forgive the pre-release buzz as long as whatever we get is the ending everyone wanted in the first place, though it still sours my opinion of BioWare. The more this drags on the more I expect to see a vastly different ending that fits more in line with what BioWare said we would get. At the very least, I think anyone would have a hard time proving this statement wrong or out of context:

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that. Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

I think it's safe to say the ending we have left us with more questions than answers; that there was very, very little closure; that some questions remain unanswered; and we did not get to decide how it ends. The ending aside, these quotes just put more salt on the wound. The final scene of Shepard taking a breath throws the entire finale into question and ensures we have more questions than answers.

My opinion of BioWare was great from Mass Effect 1 and 2. Dragon Age 2 was something of a let-down but I wasn't terribly invested in that series. I've no real care for Dragon Age 3. I'm certainly going to be more cautious about what BioWare says.

I suppose it just validates Blizzard's stance about being very tight-lipped until the very end and when Blizzard does get caught with their pants down, they aren't frugal at all in their apologies. See this:

"It is with regret that we were unable to clarify these details more when
we first mentioned our intent — “our hope” — and we wish we hadn’t
caused such excitement and raised expectations for those that didn’t
instantly take the news with an “I’ll believe it when I see it” pinch of
salt. It seems, as many of us said at the time here and on Twitter and
fansites, the proof of the (green fire) pudding really was in the eating."

Modifié par Mystiq6, 03 avril 2012 - 03:12 .

[Liber320]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Liber320 wrote...

That's grossly misinterpreting the situation

THe OP made one mistake, you called him out on it. If he checks the thread regularly, he will most likely correct it.

And you're not supposed to take his word for it, hence the reason he provided links to all the articles he quoted. It is up to the reader to do follow-up research if they believe it to be necissary. The same is true with any other piece of journalism.

Humans make mistakes.
Everyone is human.
Everyone makes mistakes.

There is nothing to seperate the rest of the quotes from that one though. Clicking his link, you wouldn't have known that Bioware clarified it and weren't actually lying, you would instead assume it was yet another lie that Bioware told. Doing your own investigating you'd realised that they weren't actually lying, and it would show that the OP was actually using deceit. For someone who wanted us to do our own investigating, it makes me wonder why he provided all those quotes in the first place. Surely a "Bioware are lying, but to find out you'll have to research yourself" would've sufficed.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's just unfortunate for the OP that this mistake has undermined his entire post.

By that logic, every person in the world is guilty of using "deciet" at some point, thus nothing anyone says ever can be trusted.

The OP was simply doing his best to provide us with as much information to prove his point (Bioware used false advertising) as possible. He made an argument, provided evidence and cited his sources.

As one person said before, you're cherry-picking, using the exception rather than the norm to prove your point. Show me a few more cases of "deciet" in his post, then I may begin to believe you.

But as it stands, it just seems like you either

1 - Don't know how journalism or research in general works

Or

2 - Are biased and doing whatever you can to discredit a good post

[Alamar2078]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

There is nothing to seperate the rest of the quotes from that one though. Clicking his link, you wouldn't have known that Bioware clarified it and weren't actually lying, you would instead assume it was yet another lie that Bioware told. Doing your own investigating you'd realised that they weren't actually lying, and it would show that the OP was actually using deceit. For someone who wanted us to do our own investigating, it makes me wonder why he provided all those quotes in the first place. Surely a "Bioware are lying, but to find out you'll have to research yourself" would've sufficed.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's just unfortunate for the OP that this mistake has undermined his entire post.

If you do your own research on the issue I could easily see someone overlooking one post on Twitter so I think your claims of deceit are overblown and honestly I think you know it too.

[Clayless]

Liber320 wrote...

By that logic, every person in the world is guilty of using "deciet" at some point, thus nothing anyone says ever can be trusted.

The OP was simply doing his best to provide us with as much information to prove his point (Bioware used false advertising) as possible. He made an argument, provided evidence and cited his sources.

As one person said before, you're cherry-picking, using the exception rather than the norm to prove your point. Show me a few more cases of "deciet" in his post, then I may begin to believe you.

But as it stands, it just seems like you either

1 - Don't know how journalism or research in general works

Or

2 - Are biased and doing whatever you can to discredit a good post

Instead, explain to me what causes you to trust everything else he says.

I have shown that not everything he said can be trusted, what is causing you to ignore that and trust him anyway? His word can't be it, as his word is suspect.

[Motherlander]

The advert should have read:

"You've been Mass 'fect."

Works especially well with an Irish accent.

[Alamar2078]

BTW: Claming that the op is intentionally trying to deceive people might be close to a violation of forum rules of conduct.

To everyone: Let's try to keep this discussion as civil as we can.

FYI: I'm returning my game to Amazon tommorrow ... Reason -- Product not as advertised.

[Alamar2078]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Instead, explain to me what causes you to trust everything else he says.

I have shown that not everything he said can be trusted, what is causing you to ignore that and trust him anyway? His word can't be it, as his word is suspect.

Actually there is no evidence that any of the points made can not be trusted as they have verifiable sources.  The fact that someone recanted their story later does little to undermine the bulk of the post.

Unless you care to display more evidence then I'd certainlly be eager & willing to listen.

[VigilancePress]

It's very hard to add to the comprehensive list of complaints here without paraphrasing what has been said, but I will try.

One of my main complaints with the blatantly misleading quotes from developers about Mass Effect 3 is my lack of power as a consumer to react to them constructively. The video games and software market has changed dramatically in the last 20 or so years, shifting all the power to the companies selling their wares, and stripping it from the consumer. To wit: I can't return a product that doesn't deliver as advertised. So, honestly, it doesn't matter how I feel about a game once I buy it, I can't take it back and get reimbursed. Once open, that game is now only resellable, and with downloadable versions I don't even have *that* option.

Along this line, I was talking with a friend and he called the complaints about the ending "Childish" and so forth. I explained calmly that I was a member of the Retake Mass Effect movement, and I didn't appreciate that label being thrown around without understanding what we want. He asked me if I could get my money back, if I would return the game. I told him I would, because it would tell the company I was not satisfied with the product as it was. He stopped calling the movement childish then, and started listening. The idea that I would rather return the product and get my money back than play it helps illustrate how disillusioned I was with the company that created it as well as the product itself.

Two things this experience has taught me: firstly, I will never purchase another downloadable game, unless I'm *absolutely* certain about the game I'm buying. Secondly, I will never believe another thing from BioWare's interviews about a product they're hyping. I will wait until I get trustworthy reviews, reviews that are released *after* the game has been on the shelf long enough to be played (after any 'gag' agreements which limit people to publishing only positive reviews in exchange for early access to the game for reviewing purposes are no longer relevant). I will wait until a friend has finished the game and can give me a well-reasoned description of the game's quality.

Trust is very important in this kind of marketplace, as much as I despise the modern gaming marketplace. EA and BioWare have lost my trust as a consumer. From now on, I will be very cautious in purchasing anything from either of those names.

In fact, this experience has gone a long way towards souring my already-stressed love of this hobby. A few more experiences like this, and I may simply swear off video games for good. It's not like there aren't lots of other great hobbies I could be investing time and money in.

At least Warriors Orochi 3 delivered on all the promises it made. Very happy with that purchase.

[shnellegaming]

Thomas Abram wrote...

Silveralen wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

Pruned. I don't sleep people, keep it civil, on topic and if you post make sure it furthers the discussion.

Not to be rude, but can you be a bit more specific? I'm kinda worrying everytime I resond to something in this thread.

You have nothing to be worried about if you make sure your post doesnt land in any of the following:

- Troll
- Useless
- 1,000 other people in this thread said the exact same thing
- Anything against BSN's code of conduct

I hope this clears things up. The last thing we want to do is oppress those who actually have something useful to say.

Can we quote someone and just say we agree with said person?

[Ahdia]

Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

Yup, same for me. I will never, ever preorder anything with a bioware or EA label again. I'm really not fond of being lied to by any company.

[Clayless]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Instead, explain to me what causes you to trust everything else he says.

I have shown that not everything he said can be trusted, what is causing you to ignore that and trust him anyway? His word can't be it, as his word is suspect.

Actually there is no evidence that any of the points made can not be trusted as they have verifiable sources.  The fact that someone recanted their story later does little to undermine the bulk of the post.

Unless you care to display more evidence then I'd certainlly be eager & willing to listen.

He cited sources even for the one that turned out to be incorrect. He linked to all these sources backing his point that Bioware were lying, but suspiciously left out the source that showed they weren't actually lying?

The OP is not the place to look if you want to find out if Bioware ever lied, as you'll have to search around for links not present in the OP to confirm if what the OP is saying is true or not.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 03 avril 2012 - 03:46 .

[SovereignWillReturn]

My question? How can Bioware accept this. They read these threads, and they know what they said. What happened?

It makes me so sad, knowing that they read all of these threads about them making their own promises, I mean, How can they post in a thread of their lies, expecting us to stay civil?
It's just hypocrisy to the max.

[VigilancePress]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

My question? How can Bioware accept this. They read these threads, and they know what they said. What happened?

It makes me so sad, knowing that they read all of these threads about them making their own promises, I mean, How can they post in a thread of their lies, expecting us to stay civil?
It's just hypocrisy to the max.

I don't exactly understand your post here... are you saying that BioWare are hypocrites, or are you accusing us on the forum of hypocrisy? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

[Liber320]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Liber320 wrote...

By that logic, every person in the world is guilty of using "deciet" at some point, thus nothing anyone says ever can be trusted.

The OP was simply doing his best to provide us with as much information to prove his point (Bioware used false advertising) as possible. He made an argument, provided evidence and cited his sources.

As one person said before, you're cherry-picking, using the exception rather than the norm to prove your point. Show me a few more cases of "deciet" in his post, then I may begin to believe you.

But as it stands, it just seems like you either

1 - Don't know how journalism or research in general works

Or

2 - Are biased and doing whatever you can to discredit a good post

Instead, explain to me what causes you to trust everything else he says.

I have shown that not everything he said can be trusted, what is causing you to ignore that and trust him anyway? His word can't be it, as his word is suspect.

Show me one person who is unconditionally trustworthy.
If you didn't trust anyone who said something that eventually turned out to be false, then you wouldn't be able to trust anyone, ever.

I have no reason to doubt him. Does that mean I trust everything he says? Not neccissarily, which is why the links provided are useful.

And let me add another option


3 - You are clinically paranoid




Also, you failed to respond to my post, instead resulted to deflecting it by asking a question.

[catgirl789]

It really hurts me to see these quotes, especially the Post-Gold ones. I mean Pre-Gold things were up in the air and things still had the possibility of being changed at the last minute. Post-Gold comments feel like stabs to the heart in light of the actual ending. I don't like the FTC reporting shenanigans but I can see where the person was coming from after re-reading these quotes post endgame.

Modifié par catgirl789, 03 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[Liber320]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Instead, explain to me what causes you to trust everything else he says.

I have shown that not everything he said can be trusted, what is causing you to ignore that and trust him anyway? His word can't be it, as his word is suspect.

Actually there is no evidence that any of the points made can not be trusted as they have verifiable sources.  The fact that someone recanted their story later does little to undermine the bulk of the post.

Unless you care to display more evidence then I'd certainlly be eager & willing to listen.

He cited sources even for the one that turned out to be incorrect. He linked to all these sources backing his point that Bioware were lying, but suspiciously left out the source that showed they weren't actually lying?

The OP is not the place to look if you want to find out if Bioware ever lied, as you'll have to search around for links not present in the OP to confirm if what the OP is saying is true or not.

Now I just think you're being willfully ignorant.
You're treating a fan-made post on a videogame forum as if it is meant to be a source of ultimate truth.

The OP has an opinion. He provided evidence to back his opinion. He cited the sources of his evidence.

You clearly don't understand how research works, and our attemtps to explain to you how one mistake ( it barely qualifies as one) is not enough to condemn everything else. The fact that you're still focusing on that one point and that no one else has brought up any flaws is actually evidence that the rest of the post is solid.

As it stands, there is insufficient evidence to accurately claim that the OP is deceitful, or that the rest of his information is false.

If you think there's a problem with it and feel like you need to convince others, then it is your job to find evidence that supports your argument.

All you've done so far is prove that the OP was unaware of a single twitter post

[Clayless]

Liber320 wrote...

Show me one person who is unconditionally trustworthy.
If you didn't trust anyone who said something that eventually turned out to be false, then you wouldn't be able to trust anyone, ever.

I have no reason to doubt him. Does that mean I trust everything he says? Not neccissarily, which is why the links provided are useful.

And let me add another option


3 - You are clinically paranoid




Also, you failed to respond to my post, instead resulted to deflecting it by asking a question.

Because I've already shown why I can't trust him. You for example haven't done anything to make me trust you or distrust you, which is fine, because you're not making any massive claims (AKA Bioware aren't to be trusted). 

Even if you did it would just be your opinion, I could just say "I disagree" and it would be equally valid.

Whereas if you said "They can't be trusted, here's a bunch of facts helping me prove my point" but slip in something that isn't a fact, and is instead an out of context quote, I wouldn't be able to trust you as you would've shown yourself to be untrustworthy.

You know why I don't trust him, and you say you don't trust him, yet you used his links? Surely you should've done your own investigating?