612 réponses à ce sujet

[Denethar]

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people “ - Mac Walters

To be fair, he wasn't that wrong. There's an ending for people with blue as favorite colour, and for people with red, and for people with green.

[Schief724]

Railarian wrote...

I wouldn't be part of the retake movement if BW didn't promised all these things. Otherwise I would have just put my ME games on a shelf for a long while. I joined the movement because I want to have what was promised. And that is IMO the only irrefutable argument for the movement.

BW don't give us clarifications. That will not fulfill your promises. If you really want to keep the current ending, change the final mission:
http://social.biowar.../index/10708065

Seriously. For all the people complaining that they like the endings and the rest of us are entitled babies, they fail to realize all of the broken promises of this game.

[Alamar2078]

Schief724 wrote...

Seriously. For all the people complaining that they like the endings and the rest of us are entitled babies, they fail to realize all of the broken promises of this game.

^^^^ This

[clarkusdarkus]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Schief724 wrote...

Seriously. For all the people complaining that they like the endings and the rest of us are entitled babies, they fail to realize all of the broken promises of this game.

^^^^ This

i just dont get the anti-retake ppl, how can they read all those promises and not be annoyed over the endings. its one thing to be lied too, but to be indenial over that lie makes it more confusing.

[leapingmonkeys]

It is good to keep these threads alive (there have been many). Problem is, Bioware doesn't seem to care. Its not like this is the first time that people have pulled up all the pre-release commentary on the game and showed how it completely misrepresented the content of ME3.

So when is Bioware going to actually *do* something about it?

[ed87]

Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

I even went for the collectors edition. Something i normally dont do

[Alamar2078]

I doubt BW / EA intends to do anything about it because their past shows they can get away with it ...

[pfellahX]

Co-sign.

Maybe "promise" is a bit naive of a word choice, but at some point, companies need to be accountable for they promotional hype they put out there. There's a few "shades of grey" quotes in there that MAYBE one could argue all the meaningful choice leading up to the RGB-Funnel fits the definition, but on most of them, if you compare the quote to the final product, there is NO way a person of any basic integrity (actual "tell the truth" integrity; not "artistic integrity") would say the statement was true of what was released.

That's why I support the "movement". If EA/Bioware had delivered a product that met those "promises", then we could talk "artistic integrity" about the merits of individual choices within that framework. But right now the choices seem to be:
1) If "the ending is the ending", then Bioware gave us an ending that meets almost NONE of the criteria their people talked up; or
2) If Indoc Theory or something like it is true, they gave us a possibly great... something... that's not a true ending because the story is not over.

There really aren't any other choices.

[pfellahX]

ed87 wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

I even went for the collectors edition. Something i normally dont do

Same here. I don't generally do CE's either, but I thought this one would be worth it.

Modifié par pfellahX, 03 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[sp0ck 06]

While I actually didn't hate the endings like everyone else, it cannot be denied that the majority of those statements, many of them made when the devs KNEW what the final state of the game would be, are blatantly false.

I loved the game and am interested to see how they handle all the ending controversy, but how can the LEAD WRITER say "the Rachni's presence will have huge consequences in the final battle" when he must have known that was simply not true. I mean, why even say that and get everyone's hopes up?

Doesn't make much sense.

[hosen17]

Remains to be seen wether or not they adress these issues at PAX, judging from all the responses etc we got up untill now I'm more then sceptical...

[Brandonized]

Bioware will copy Obi-wan " So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view"

[Railarian]

pfellahX wrote...

ed87 wrote...

I even went for the collectors edition. Something i normally dont do

Same here. I don't generally do CE's either, but I thought this one would be worth it.

My very first CE. ME2 charmed me.

[Alamar2078]

I was having hopes after seeing the ME3 website having a collection of the posted "speculation" and talk about the game. Hope built a little bit because of how endings came out of left field and [IMHO] abandoned tone, themese, etc. the game & series was building up to.

Now I'm back to the "they probably don't intend to help because they can get away with not helping" POV.

[ungodlike]

Keeping promises is important.

[ed87]

pfellahX wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

I even went for the collectors edition. Something i normally dont do

Same here. I don't generally do CE's either, but I thought this one would be worth it.

We were wrong. So wrong.

Im already finding copies of the game 40 dollars cheaper than what i paid

Modifié par ed87, 03 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[tsd16]

As a software developer myself. I see alot of "I will never believe a bioware dev". No bioware developer has a say on the business side of things. Sure they provide input, so someone else can make a decision. If there is a time constraint, joe Bioware developer isn't making the decision to cut content.

And I dont want to seem like an ass, but technically nothing they said was a lie. It comes down to whether or not we can believe that those who made comments were that naive to think what they said wouldnt conjure up a more grandiose expectation as to what the endings actually are.

Are there many different endings? Yes. (minor differences aside, yes)
Do you see your past decisions reflected throughout the game? (yes, sure if doesnt completely change the story as many would like, but yes, you learn about the outcomes of decisions you made).

Believe me I dont care for the endings either. I am just arguing that the comments that were made are not lies, and unless you can crawl into the mind of said people, you cant say for certain they were trying to be misleading.

With that said, in hindsight, when seeing this bioware should understand that from a fan perspective the reality fell far short of the interpretation of comments made by bioware employees and should easily be able to see how that could happen.

They should also understand that even with a lack of what can be assumed to be misleading commentary from bioware, the reality still would fall short of what fans of the series were expecting. As far as endings are concerned.

[leapingmonkeys]

tsd16 wrote...

As a software developer myself. I see alot of "I will never believe a bioware dev". No bioware developer has a say on the business side of things. Sure they provide input, so someone else can make a decision. If there is a time constraint, joe Bioware developer isn't making the decision to cut content.

And I dont want to seem like an ass, but technically nothing they said was a lie. It comes down to whether or not we can believe that those who made comments were that naive to think what they said wouldnt conjure up a more grandiose expectation as to what the endings actually are.

Are there many different endings? Yes. (minor differences aside, yes)
Do you see your past decisions reflected throughout the game? (yes, sure if doesnt completely change the story as many would like, but yes, you learn about the outcomes of decisions you made).

Believe me I dont care for the endings either. I am just arguing that the comments that were made are not lies, and unless you can crawl into the mind of said people, you cant say for certain they were trying to be misleading.

With that said, in hindsight, when seeing this bioware should understand that from a fan perspective the reality fell far short of the interpretation of comments made by bioware employees and should easily be able to see how that could happen.

They should also understand that even with a lack of what can be assumed to be misleading commentary from bioware, the reality still would fall short of what fans of the series were expecting. As far as endings are concerned.

I have to disagree.  For example, mr Hudsen said in one interview that ME3 wouldn't be like other RPGs where the final decision comes down to "choose A, B or C".   ME3 comes down to *exactly* choosing A, B or C (ignoring the fact that A, B and C are essentially identical).

So yes, there were blatant misrepresentations on the part of Bioware regarding the content of ME3.  No, its not the devs, its the leads, but there were lies told, none the less.

[Wikkr]

ed87 wrote...


I even went for the collectors edition. Something i normally dont do

Exactly this. I preordered the collectors edition. when that was pulled from game i had no option but to go for the digital collectors edition. I did this based on the previous two games and the promised id seen in every review, interview, marketing leading up to the release. So many of those promises are just completely fake it left me very dissapointed. as a developer ive always viewed bioware as the best in their field. I could always trust a bioware to deliver what it promised in an epic way. Yes DA2 was a bit dissapointing with the recycled corridors everywhere but the story more then made up for that. ME 3 plays like 2 games. the actual game which delivers so much that you can almost feel the love the crew put into making it. then the last 10 minutes which just stamps over all the promises of an epic finish.

I find it a shame that this is how they felt the normandy's story should end. All that effort and care and you just phoned it in at the end with an ending one of your own people promised wouldnt happen (A B C or Red, Green, Blue no difference)

Ive lost faith that the IT is true and this was just an epic ruse to delay the real ending so everyone could have it at once. Too much damage has been done while bioware/ea have sat back and dropped little hints and teasers for both sides of the fence with no real commitment. a £60 game is now available for £24 a month after release.

[D.I.Y_Death]

tsd16 wrote...

As a software developer myself. I see alot of "I will never believe a bioware dev". No bioware developer has a say on the business side of things. Sure they provide input, so someone else can make a decision. If there is a time constraint, joe Bioware developer isn't making the decision to cut content.

And I dont want to seem like an ass, but technically nothing they said was a lie. It comes down to whether or not we can believe that those who made comments were that naive to think what they said wouldnt conjure up a more grandiose expectation as to what the endings actually are.

Are there many different endings? Yes. (minor differences aside, yes)
Do you see your past decisions reflected throughout the game? (yes, sure if doesnt completely change the story as many would like, but yes, you learn about the outcomes of decisions you made).

Believe me I dont care for the endings either. I am just arguing that the comments that were made are not lies, and unless you can crawl into the mind of said people, you cant say for certain they were trying to be misleading.

With that said, in hindsight, when seeing this bioware should understand that from a fan perspective the reality fell far short of the interpretation of comments made by bioware employees and should easily be able to see how that could happen.

They should also understand that even with a lack of what can be assumed to be misleading commentary from bioware, the reality still would fall short of what fans of the series were expecting. As far as endings are concerned.

You know what solves this problem? Gaging Devs (not literally) and leaving it up to the PR department for press releases and such.
This streamlines the information and gives greater control to Bioware over the expectations they set.

I don't know what to think, Bioware is even screwing up some of the basics of doing buisness. I'm just sick of this whole fiasco.

[locsphere]

Definitely in my opinion. I feel like I was misinformed since the beginning about the endings. I would appreciate the game we were told we would be purchasing. Not the one we were given.

[Fenderbaum]

Denethar wrote...


“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people “ - Mac Walters

To be fair, he wasn't that wrong. There's an ending for people with blue as favorite colour, and for people with red, and for people with green.

Genius....thanks for the giggle

[Schief724]

tsd16 wrote...

As a software developer myself. I see alot of "I will never believe a bioware dev". No bioware developer has a say on the business side of things. Sure they provide input, so someone else can make a decision. If there is a time constraint, joe Bioware developer isn't making the decision to cut content.

And I dont want to seem like an ass, but technically nothing they said was a lie. It comes down to whether or not we can believe that those who made comments were that naive to think what they said wouldnt conjure up a more grandiose expectation as to what the endings actually are.

Are there many different endings? Yes. (minor differences aside, yes)
Do you see your past decisions reflected throughout the game? (yes, sure if doesnt completely change the story as many would like, but yes, you learn about the outcomes of decisions you made).

Believe me I dont care for the endings either. I am just arguing that the comments that were made are not lies, and unless you can crawl into the mind of said people, you cant say for certain they were trying to be misleading.

With that said, in hindsight, when seeing this bioware should understand that from a fan perspective the reality fell far short of the interpretation of comments made by bioware employees and should easily be able to see how that could happen.

They should also understand that even with a lack of what can be assumed to be misleading commentary from bioware, the reality still would fall short of what fans of the series were expecting. As far as endings are concerned.

I'm sorry, but you are 100% wrong. There are some boldfaced lies that they said, along with gross exaggerations. For example...

“In Mass Effect 3, you know you need to take back Earth, but the path to victory is less clear at the outset. You won’t just find some long-lost Reaper “off” button," - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The Crucible is the "off" button, and you find that out at the outset of the game.

“Don’t expect to win the loyalty of the galaxy by simply completing a series of fetch quests” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The whole game is pretty much a series of fetch quests to sate the desires of each race before they help you. Not every quest, but a lot of them.

“… part of what you’re trying to do is save the universe so you can live in it. That’s part of the promise, I think, for any great IP. It has to be a world worth saving… I think Mass Effect has that quality to it. If you get rid of the Reapers and win that, wouldn’t it be amazing to just live on the Citadel or just take a ship to Omega? That makes sense.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The Citadel is destroyed, as well as all mass relays. There is no way you could ever live in this universe after the end of the game.

There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? - Mike Gamble

- Lie. Everybody gets the same ending, with only color and tiny parts differing. Also everybody sees the Normandy crash land on a tropical planet, and the stargazer scene at the end. None of your war assets were ever shown to make any visual difference.

"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. A (Blue), B (Green), C (Red). I don't need to say more. No variety, no sophistication. Plenty of speculation.

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.” - Mac Walters

- Lie. They have no influcence in the final battle. Just like none of the other races because you don't actually see your war assets doing anything. Plus it doesn't matter if you saved or killed the Rachni. They are still in the game in some form either way.

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.” - Mike Gamble

- So what's all of this about "artistic integrity" now? Gross exaggeration.

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make” - Mike Gamble

- Lie. There was no closure. We didn't see our decisions make any difference in the end because everybody and every race we cared about are screwed no matter what. Even to the point of what we did in THIS GAME made no difference. Relays destroyed, people stranded.

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.” - Casey Hudson

- Really? Gross exaggeration. The endings are anything but "great" and provide "some closure." We didn't get any of that.

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.” - Casey Hudson

- "Co-creators with the fans." What an interesting quote. What's this about "artistic integrity" now?

“The whole idea of Mass Effect 3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. Every civilization is screwed, and we never actually find out which ones live or die because we are forced to "speculate."

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. There were no large decisions as you approaced the end-game. Every decision leads to basically the same thing. There were no layers, no choices, and it was never different for everyone who played it.

Modifié par Schief724, 03 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[BinaryHelix101]

Oh man, I missed this thread when it first came out... it really hurts to read all these amazing things that were promised.

Even during the game when I was playing I'd already heard from some friends that the ending wasn't very good, and I thought, "how could a game this amazing still have a bad ending?" Even during the Citadel part with Anderson and TIM I was thinking that. Let's just say a lot can happen in 10 minutes.

[Fenderbaum]

Schief724 wrote...

tsd16 wrote...

As a software developer myself. I see alot of "I will never believe a bioware dev". No bioware developer has a say on the business side of things. Sure they provide input, so someone else can make a decision. If there is a time constraint, joe Bioware developer isn't making the decision to cut content.

And I dont want to seem like an ass, but technically nothing they said was a lie. It comes down to whether or not we can believe that those who made comments were that naive to think what they said wouldnt conjure up a more grandiose expectation as to what the endings actually are.

Are there many different endings? Yes. (minor differences aside, yes)
Do you see your past decisions reflected throughout the game? (yes, sure if doesnt completely change the story as many would like, but yes, you learn about the outcomes of decisions you made).

Believe me I dont care for the endings either. I am just arguing that the comments that were made are not lies, and unless you can crawl into the mind of said people, you cant say for certain they were trying to be misleading.

With that said, in hindsight, when seeing this bioware should understand that from a fan perspective the reality fell far short of the interpretation of comments made by bioware employees and should easily be able to see how that could happen.

They should also understand that even with a lack of what can be assumed to be misleading commentary from bioware, the reality still would fall short of what fans of the series were expecting. As far as endings are concerned.

I'm sorry, but you are 100% wrong. There are some boldfaced lies that they said, along with gross exaggerations. For example...

“In Mass Effect 3, you know you need to take back Earth, but the path to victory is less clear at the outset. You won’t just find some long-lost Reaper “off” button," - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The Crucible is the "off" button, and you find that out at the outset of the game.

“Don’t expect to win the loyalty of the galaxy by simply completing a series of fetch quests” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The whole game is pretty much a series of fetch quests to sate the desires of each race before they help you. Not every quest, but a lot of them.

“… part of what you’re trying to do is save the universe so you can live in it. That’s part of the promise, I think, for any great IP. It has to be a world worth saving… I think Mass Effect has that quality to it. If you get rid of the Reapers and win that, wouldn’t it be amazing to just live on the Citadel or just take a ship to Omega? That makes sense.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. The Citadel is destroyed, as well as all mass relays. There is no way you could ever live in this universe after the end of the game.

There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? - Mike Gamble

- Lie. Everybody gets the same ending, with only color and tiny parts differing. Also everybody sees the Normandy crash land on a tropical planet, and the stargazer scene at the end. None of your war assets were ever shown to make any visual difference.

"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. A (Blue), B (Green), C (Red). I don't need to say more. No variety, no sophistication. Plenty of speculation.

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.” - Mac Walters

- Lie. They have no influcence in the final battle. Just like none of the other races because you don't actually see your war assets doing anything. Plus it doesn't matter if you saved or killed the Rachni. They are still in the game in some form either way.

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.” - Mike Gamble

- So what's all of this about "artistic integrity" now? Gross exaggeration.

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make” - Mike Gamble

- Lie. There was no closure. We didn't see our decisions make any difference in the end because everybody and every race we cared about are screwed no matter what. Even to the point of what we did in THIS GAME made no difference. Relays destroyed, people stranded.

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.” - Casey Hudson

- Really? Gross exaggeration. The endings are anything but "great" and provide "some closure." We didn't get any of that.

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.” - Casey Hudson

- "Co-creators with the fans." What an interesting quote. What's this about "artistic integrity" now?

“The whole idea of Mass Effect 3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. Every civilization is screwed, and we never actually find out which ones live or die because we are forced to "speculate."

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.” - Casey Hudson

- Lie. There were no large decisions as you approaced the end-game. Every decision leads to basically the same thing. There were no layers, no choices, and it was never different for everyone who played it.

You had to remind us

You should repost that here: http://social.biowar...7511/9#10949864