612 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow98]

firebreather19 wrote...

Exaggerated language is always a part of selling a product. Do you really think a elves make Keebler cookies, or that Gatorade actually turns you sweat into different colors? This has been going on for decades...why is this one game out of everything you've ever watched listened to or experienced the one you need to call "false advertising" on? Not "trolling," honest question. Just appears to be more searching for justification for disliking the endings than anything else.

Valid point but if you read some of the quotes they are far beyond mere "Exaggerated language"

[Renew81]

Yeah its still shocking and dissapointing to read those statements knowing
how it actually is inside the game.. i also feel completly alienated from shepard
ones the ghostchild steps in i feel like handing over all my time and gameplay
so bw can finish it for me.

thats one thing that bothers me , the others i think are pretty clear
the fact that your choices dont really matter, was asset have no meaning
i was hopeing to see what would happen with the troops i gathered , The rachni for example
when the fleet arrives at earth i though YES now its going to get down but that all quickly changed
so dissapointed about that. ive read comments of people saying they got the feeling
there shapard would die by going into conversation with other characters , i experienced it differently i got a sence of hope but there was non.

Its dissapointing that many of these statement ( if not all ) did not see the light in the game.

[ijobes1]

I want to voice my support for this thread. I wont be coming back here to argue my point, IT or no IT has been discussed plenty elsewhere so please dont quote me im putting this here solely for the attention of Bioware.

The ending needs changing but not Indoctrination, i personally feel Indoctrination is the wrong way to pull out of the ending that exists, rewrite it so as run you at the beam you dodge Harbinger and the action and effects of your previous games (and ME3) choices continue from there.

Thats just my view/hope, again im posting and leaving im not discussing/checking back here, just posting my personal view for Bioware if they want to read it.

[Thomas Abram]

Warning, anyone from this point on who posts something that does not directly further this thread in any way will receive some sort of disciplinary action depending on their post.

Please, please, please keep this on topic and civil. If you agree, great, expand. If you disagree, great, expand. If you want to post for the sake of posting take it to reddit.

[Soma.E-Pro]

I was hyping this game up soooo much to anyone who would listen, directly quoting some of those promises! Now I just look like a chump. Good post OP.

[TheLostGenius]

There has been absolutely no false advertising in regards to the product or its quality. You only have a subjective opinion and EA/Bioware has sold a content rich game that surpasses what was advertised and you all should be ashamed at yourselves for bringing such a baseless and thoughtless accusation up in the forum like this.

/end thread

[Blarghonk]

phrizek wrote...

Someone needs to get this to the Forbes guys. I would like to see their take on all of this.

I mentioned it in comments on both the Forbes "article" on the response for Ray and the most recent relating to the IGN guy. Imagine they just got lost in a sea of comments, had no email to send it to.

To OP, glad to see this thread open again. Will certainly try to be more civil then I thought I was in the last thread, but do want people to see this issue.

[blooregard]

firebreather19 wrote...

Exaggerated language is always a part of selling a product. Do you really think a elves make Keebler cookies, or that Gatorade actually turns you sweat into different colors? This has been going on for decades...why is this one game out of everything you've ever watched listened to or experienced the one you need to call "false advertising" on? Not "trolling," honest question. Just appears to be more searching for justification for disliking the endings than anything else.

That is different. Unless you're a total moron you know they're just making their advertisments flashy with gatorade or keebler cookies. End of the story is you're getting a cookie or you're getting a drink 

What the BW devs said was you'd get this, you'd get that, we wouldn't make you do this and EVERYTHING they were saying lines up perfectly with what the previous 2 games were. You could choose how to end the game, your choices would mean something, ect. ect. instead they forced us into the bespoke A, B, or C ending they said they wouldn't do


Its a flat out lie on bioware/EA's part what they were quoted saying almost describes a completely different game then what we have.

[Asclepus]

firebreather19 wrote...

Exaggerated language is always a part of selling a product. Do you really think a elves make Keebler cookies, or that Gatorade actually turns you sweat into different colors? This has been going on for decades...why is this one game out of everything you've ever watched listened to or experienced the one you need to call "false advertising" on? Not "trolling," honest question. Just appears to be more searching for justification for disliking the endings than anything else.

To answer your point, the Keebler elves are cartoons...in fact, they are in a way parodies of fictional characters. The elves are clearly made up and fictitional. The people who made the hyperbolic statements in speaking to interviewers were the real McCoys. They were a part of the Production/Design/Development/Management teams and as such, their words carried weight in that arena. Even if they did not make false advertising, they most definitely made false statements in a way deliberately designed to mislead the consumer if they had no intention to hold to those statements. At the very least, they are liars, and no one likes being lied to. 

[Lanay]

Those quotes prove that the artistic integrity argument is moot. Clearly, the ending we got wasn't the ending they were building the game around in the first place.

[Sharkey1337]

TheLostGenius wrote...

There has been absolutely no false advertising in regards to the product or its quality. You only have a subjective opinion and EA/Bioware has sold a content rich game that surpasses what was advertised and you all should be ashamed at yourselves for bringing such a baseless and thoughtless accusation up in the forum like this.

/end thread

I'm sorry, but did you read those quotes? Some of those were made 2 weeks from launch, from the very developers. Considering how the endings we have now are the complete opposite of what they were describing the endings as, it is VERY misleading.

[GargamelLeNoir]

firebreather19 wrote...

Exaggerated language is always a part of selling a product.

Let's imagine a yoghurt. If the cover says "best taste ever", it's probably not true but it's exaggerated language, completely acceptable. BUT if it is written "with real organic fruits" and that it actually contain chemical flavour, that's fake advertisement, admissible to court.

Bioware made very specific and tangible promises, and we bought the product based on them. The only reason they're not in legal trouble is because artistic sectors get some more leeway. But we're still wronged consummers, and we still need to make that heard.

[Johnnycide]

You may want to include the definition of Puffery as well, so people don't confuse it with false advertising.

Puffery [Puffing]: The expression of an exaggerated opinion - as opposed to a factual misrepresentation - with the intent to sell a good or service. Puffing involves expressing opinions, not asserting something as a fact. Although there is some leeway in puffing goods, a seller may not misrepresent them OR SAY THAT THEY HAVE ATTRIBUTES THAT THEY DO NOT POSSESS.

- Black's Law Dictionary, Third Pocket Edition

[cachx]

 Honestly, with the exception of the "get the full ending without mp" and the "a-b-c ending", the quotes are not lies, just hype building and talks about subjective stuff.

"Jedi Truths" as they call them.

Ps. Fix the readiness/war asset problem, not in DLC, but in a patch, like, very soon. Please.

[durasteel]

Y'know, a lot of those statements are true in the context of the main body of the game. Shepard does have the ability to resolve issues with the Quarians and Geth, Krogan and the Genophage, Miranda, EDI, etc. with very different outcomes based on choices throughout the trilogy of games. In that context, some statements are spot-on.

The problem comes in the very end, which renders many or most of those previous choices, outcomes, and resolutions pointless. I'm also struck by the fact that some of those statements about the end were made before the end itself was completed in November 2011, which makes me think that there were great plans and grand designs which never came to fruition because the team ran out of time, and had to basically phone in the ending.

When all is said and done, my hope is that the corporate decisions will allow the Mass Effect team to take the time they need to generate a fitting end to the game and to the series which reflects the same level of quality as the rest of Mass Effect 3. They've earned the opportunity to take a Mulligan.

[General Jack D. Ripper]

nevar00 wrote...

There's another quote out there about how you'll be rewarded for staying loyal to your ME 1 love interest, and how there will be consequences if you weren't. I can't remember where I saw that though, I'm thinking a GameInformer?

My brother replayed all of me2 to fix this. He just started me3 and I don't have the heart to tell him that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

[selphiegirl]

Soma.E-Pro wrote...

I was hyping this game up soooo much to anyone who would listen, directly quoting some of those promises! Now I just look like a chump. Good post OP.

I did the same thing! BioWare and all of it's spokespeople used to be dead on when they explained what they were up to in interviews.

[fearan1]

Yes those Quotes directly influenced my pre-order of the collectors addition . The problem lies in that they give you the choices throughout the game then the ending steals all the meaning from them . It is like being allowed to save someone or not from a car crash in the morning so they can die in a car crash at lunch does our choice in the morning really matter ?

[DaveTCH]

General Jack D. Ripper wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

There's another quote out there about how you'll be rewarded for staying loyal to your ME 1 love interest, and how there will be consequences if you weren't. I can't remember where I saw that though, I'm thinking a GameInformer?

My brother replayed all of me2 to fix this. He just started me3 and I don't have the heart to tell him that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Just let Marauder Shields do his thing.

HOLD THE LINE

[Asclepus]

General Jack D. Ripper wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

There's another quote out there about how you'll be rewarded for staying loyal to your ME 1 love interest, and how there will be consequences if you weren't. I can't remember where I saw that though, I'm thinking a GameInformer?

My brother replayed all of me2 to fix this. He just started me3 and I don't have the heart to tell him that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

I believe it was in Gameinformer...and my condolences to your brother.
I certainly don't remember consequences for it during my Ahsley/Miranda LI save.
And on that note, I just thought of something else. I would have liked to have Miranda back on my crew instead of doing all the scret hidey stuff. The most pretected place in space was the Normandy.

[Thomas Abram]

Just let Marauder Shields do his thing.

HOLD THE LINE

This is an example of a useless post that does nothing but take away from what this thread is meant to do.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 22 mars 2012 - 10:07 .

[kevlarcardhouse]

Throughout the game, and especially within the last five hours, I would say a lot of your choices from all 3 games culminate nicely and influence a hell of a lot. Hell, there are even things in the first game that can bite you in the ass by the end (like the Racchni).

Also, there are actually many different versions of the actual climax. The number of war assets directly influences how much damage is left on Earth or even if Earth exists at all anymore, it determines whether or not your squadmates survive, and it determines the state of the Crucible when you finally enter it and therefore whether or not you get all 3 choices. The fact that people keep insisting it makes no difference at all, in my opinion, reaffirms BioWare's decision in the ending because nobody experienced most of that stuff. If there truly were a dozen or so endings after the climax, it would be the same as the end result of the "suicide" mission with multiple outcomes of ME2: Everyone would game the system and make sure they have the highest amount of war assets possible, and then this "impossible" fight would conclude with 95% of players having the absolute perfect ending where everything goes right and then they would watch the other endings on Youtube.

The complaints that BioWare lied in their marketing are the same as the complaints that the endings make no sense: You're disappointed in the ending and so now are taking everything in the worst possible context.

Also, let me state that I find this whole RetakeME3 sickening for so many reasons, least of which trying to align yourself with a charity to try to sugarcoat your blatant meanspirited attitude. At the very least you could have chosen something that actually matters instead of that complete joke of a charity known as Child's Play. (Ooh, give rich children whose families can afford medical bills just fine and give them free video games by sending tons of money to companies like....EA.)

[Jiraa]

cachx wrote...

 Honestly, with the exception of the "get the full ending without mp" and the "a-b-c ending", the quotes are not lies, just hype building and talks about subjective stuff.

"Jedi Truths" as they call them.

Ps. Fix the readiness/war asset problem, not in DLC, but in a patch, like, very soon. Please.

I would agree that some points are subjective, but it's not only those two points that are rather straight forward.
For example: could someone (anyone?) please tell me the huge impact the rachni had on the ending? I couldn't tell one. In fact, I didn't get the rachni, but cured the genophage - a friend of me did get the rachni and didn't cure the genophage. About the same EMS but strangely... no differences in the ending. I know they're fine legally speaking, I just mean to say that this was some kind of setup to disappoint customer/fans who do actually read pre release interviews.

On Topic again: 
I guess false advertisement does not fit in the "legal" way (insert stuff about pre release talk). But we're not trying (I hope we're not :c ) to sue Bioware.
Call it whatever you will, "broken promises", "wrong facts", "puffing", I believe that what this thread tries to state isn't that hard to understand

Edit: @kevlarcardhouse: Would you mind a bit less ad hominem? Would be much appreciated, thanks.

Modifié par Jiraa, 22 mars 2012 - 10:09 .

[Grasich]

Sharkey1337 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

There has been absolutely no false advertising in regards to the product or its quality. You only have a subjective opinion and EA/Bioware has sold a content rich game that surpasses what was advertised and you all should be ashamed at yourselves for bringing such a baseless and thoughtless accusation up in the forum like this.

/end thread

I'm sorry, but did you read those quotes? Some of those were made 2 weeks from launch, from the very developers. Considering how the endings we have now are the complete opposite of what they were describing the endings as, it is VERY misleading.

It isn't just misleading. A number of those promise they will not do exactly what they did.

It's rather dissapointing, really, to see this sort of thing. I hope BioWare comes through and fulfills these, even if it's with paid DLC.

[Necrotron]

Thomas Abram wrote...

We have locked a handful of threads on this subject due to them getting out of hand. Please keep this civil, constructive and on topic to avoid the samething happening here.

+1

There is a difference between being an aggressive and enraged mob and simply pointing out your disappointment and grievances in a clear and respectful manner.

Modifié par Bathaius, 22 mars 2012 - 10:08 .