612 réponses à ce sujet

[Espurr]

While I agree that quotes like those are open to interpretation and can't be branded outright lies, they are very misleading. And yes, hyperbole and leading statements and such are always part of advertising, but there is a fine line to walk with that. If you take it too far, you end up with a situation like this where a majority of the consumers (and since we're discussing the advertising specifically lets refer to "consumers" here as people who actually followed the advertising and the series) interpreted things a certain way and end up disappointed/angry.

There's also a matter of video games being expensive enough that to many people they are not impulse buys. They are also something it's very difficult to return in most situations (Amazon right now with ME3 being the exception, not the rule), so you end up with a situation where you have people who feel like they've been tricked into spending money.

And personally, it's made all the more difficult by the fact that the rest of the game is SO GOOD. I want to love it all the way through. I want to see it fixed and I don't WANT to return it. But right now I have an $85 game that I have a very hard time wanting to play again because I was that disappointed by the ending.

[Thomas Abram]

Silveralen wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

Pruned. I don't sleep people, keep it civil, on topic and if you post make sure it furthers the discussion.

Not to be rude, but can you be a bit more specific? I'm kinda worrying everytime I resond to something in this thread.

You have nothing to be worried about if you make sure your post doesnt land in any of the following:

- Troll
- Useless
- 1,000 other people in this thread said the exact same thing
- Anything against BSN's code of conduct

I hope this clears things up. The last thing we want to do is oppress those who actually have something useful to say.

[Wearyanna]

This is some free speculation as well as a small plead to those it may concern.

There has never been such a thing as false marketing for Mass Effect 3. Before you vent your anger at me please continue to read. 
Yes, the outcry was probably more than you ever expected and one can only regret the harsh, bitter threatening words against specific employees and everthing else that comes with this kind of negative attention these days, Bioware you did not deserve that! 
What is going on now isn't a part of the original marketing strategy perhaps for the time between March 6 and April 6. But still it's working in the way to get the Mass Effect franchise to become the most talked about in gaming history, with the gamers working very hard to find ways to get the messages out despite of what their personal preferrences might be on the game in total.
It's called free marketing, and all of us posting in the forums, joining in Facebook gruops, posting in blogs and on Twitter are playing right along in this. So there is no bad publicity, perhaps.

It's evidently clear that the current ending never was the "real" or "canon" ending for the series. The more you watch it or play it the more hollow it gets. So why go through all of this?
Because if you create a need, people will do a lot to satisfy it. That is basic in gameplaying you want more if you like it, maybe you even want more if you hate it or thought something lacked proper closure . The former EA president said that the future for many games lies in micropayment. Play Battlefield for a few hours get caught up in the game, run out of ammo and of course you will buy some more ammo for a few coins. WoW has lived on this for years so EA is not solely to be blamed for this.

If I may continue, the current EA president states in this interview from last year that a way for the gaming industry to make money is through DLC. This is not unique for EA, this is a well renowned fact that I doubt anyone will argue with. Sad perhaps, but it gets more content out faster which is good for us as gamers, it doesn't come with as high a pricetag as an expansion. Gamers get more to game play faster, gaming companies make money and can develop more DLC, a win win.

However if this is a, shall we call it, social experiment on Bioware/EA:s behalf to see if the need is so great that a large portion of the Mass Effect gaming community will feel it to be an absolute must, to buy the "ment to be" canon ending, then congratulations are in order. In terms of need you've succeeded, but I strongly urge you to rethink potential fee's for a DLC with an "epic ending", because that will probably outrage the gamers even more.
What the outcome of that might be, you can probably count for yourselves after the controverses the last weeks.
I want Bioware to continue making games, in the word of Grunt "Shepard is my battlemaster she has no match." And no, you have no match when it comes to RPG storydriven games.

So hopefully both Bioware/EA and the gaming community will wake up from this nightmare an experience richer, with our brands, wallets and love of games intact. Let us continue to be on the same side in this, the side of enjoying great games to the fullest!

Wearyanna out  

Modifié par Wearyanna, 22 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[MattFini]

I RJay I wrote...

Guys, I have read most of the posts on this thread and it seems that some of you are forgetting that we've been given an official statement that says we will be getting something to do with the ending and that they will give us more information then.

That's just it though, if they think it's going to just be a patch to further explain the crappy StarChild, they can shove it.

Short of my Shep being able to blow his brains out and call in the troops (the entire galaxy I united), I really don't see it happening.  Those final choices are pretentious beyond belief and do not feel, even remotely, like the first two games.

And it sickens me becuase I fully bought into all of BW's hype leading to the game's release.  And becuase of how much I LOVED the first two games, I never, ever thought they'd let me down in this way.

But that stuff at the end isn't a logical conclusion to Mass Effect, and it's not even remotely a logical culmination of my choices.  BioWare felt they had to end the game with a "massive shakeup" that disgusts me to my core. 

I want nothing to do with StarChild and the three awful options, no matter how much further explanation goes into it.

[firebreather19]

Anything said before the game's official release really isn't admissible because there's no proof something wasn't changed. Besides, are we saying that nothing was ever promised for ME2 but not delivered?

[thejoyrider]

glad you remade this thread, as it definitely brings up things i really wish bioware would address directly.

those quotes bum me out so bad. i was so excited for ME3.

[Negix]

I think theres two aspects of this debate:

1) The story of the galaxy: While a lot of "endings" are given in regards of the Genophage, the Quarian/Geth conflict and others I felt that those endings only partially mattered. We left the galaxy in a state of unrest, and this will obviously have an effect on those storyarchs. Combining this with the statement that it would be unlikely that future content would take place after ME3 I felt that too many questions were unanswered. There was too much uncertainty left.

2) Shepards story: A lot of us got invested into the story of Shepard and the other characters. It gave the story a lot of individual touch. I, and many others, felt that there was just no choice given in the end. Some of us wanted a happy ending, yes, but thats ultimately not even the biggest problem. The problem is that our character just eats the choices he gets, doesnt protest, doesnt do anything. Its almost as if the guy/gal would want to die, would want to mess the entire galaxy up. This just doesnt feel like Shepard....

Solution: Give people more choice in regards of the ending, maybe a happy ending? Please? I want little blue children .

Also, add an epilogue where all the stuff we did plays out. This can be done in textform or maybe as small videoclip, but I feel that some kind of closure is necessary....

[dfstone]

firebreather19 wrote...

Anything said before the game's official release really isn't admissible because there's no proof something wasn't changed. Besides, are we saying that nothing was ever promised for ME2 but not delivered?

Actually ME2 delivers more of the promises they made for ME3 then ME3 does.

[Tommytsunami]

On line with the broken promises idea, while I greatly respect everyone at bioware for making such a fun game, my biggest disappointment (coming more from confusion than anger since to me the rest of the game slightly makes up for the ending) didn't show up until after Dr. Muzyka made his statement. Originally the disappointment came from solely the broken promises, but Muzyka's statement leads me to believe that the majority of the team expected fans to be pleased with an ending that contradicted the promises made.

To me (solely my opinion as some of you may disagree) if bioware adds in even half of the promised material the majority of the backlash would die down. I for one don't want to have this feeling of resentment towards the company that makes some of my favorite games, but the fact that the ending had been talked up the way it was and didn't deliver just leaves me with such a disheartened or disappointed feeling. Maybe it is was just the build up of anticipation based on the promises, but I think that had they not been made I wouldn't have this feeling of resentment towards the ending.

Lastly, if this has strayed too far off topic since I know the last thread about this did earlier.... then please forgive me. I just wanted to state my opinion on this broken promises idea.

Oh and kudos JohnnyG and any other contributors for compiling this!

[durasteel]

TheLostGenius wrote...

No even remotely misleading. You were mislead by how our imagination interpreted the meanings. SELECTIVE INTERPRETATION BASED ON SAID OPINION. There was no false advertising, in this case, only false minds. 

If a statement is carefully worded to intentionally encourage a reader or listener to reach an incorrect conclusion, the fact that it is technically not false does not make it less misleading. The questions are whether the (incorrect) perceptions were reasonable, and whether they were intended by the person making the statement.

Most of the statements, however, were relative, or opinions. For example, "it's a huge cockroach" will be much more accurate if the vermin in question is crawling up your leg.

If the stuff that the BioDudes said before the release of the game led you to form expectations which the game did not  meet, it is right and appropriate to point that out. Trying to paint these guys as villains, however, isn't going to get you anywhere. I'm sure that in most cases the team is more dissapointed by any shortcomings of the game than you are.

[Aesieru]

Assets need to matter in significant ways.

Choices need to be taken into account in significant ways.

The ability to choose which civilizations survive or fall based on who we help or focus on needs to be there.

---

These are the things we were promised.

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

JohnnyG wrote...


“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
Issue 108 of 360Gamer (Hardcopy only, not available online)

This one is HUGE.  I don't see any way this is not factually false.

To be fair, I don't believe at all Bioware was intentionally putting false hype out there, at least not until the last few weeks before launch.  I think they set the bar really high with every intention of hitting it, and then things got rushed and they didn't make it, plain and simple.

[wantedman dan]

Johnny--

while I agree with you that they mislead us as to how the game would be concluded, I disagree with your analogy because it would imply that they did something wrong in the conceptualization of the game.

A more apt illustration, in my opinion, would be hiring a painter to cover the walls in your house. This painter had meticulous detail throughout ninety nine percent of the house: the coat was event and smooth, there was no paint dropped anywhere, and he even kept it off of your ceiling. But, as you tour the house, you see one wall that was completely neglected, in fact, it had a couple of holes in it and he had vowed that, if you demand this wall be changed, you're denying him his right to artistic integrity. While yes, you appreciate the impeccable work put in the rest of the house, you're still going to be super pissed about the incompleteness of the job and the overall shoddy work done on that part.

[Lavits75]

ME2 could end in so many different ways. The whole non-party crew could die or be saved. Everyone party crew member could die or all could make it out alive. 98% of them could live and one dies. And the person who dies varies completely. You could hand over the base or destroy it.

ME2 had so many different aspects to it's ending and you knew what was going on. ME3 had three choices. Red, blue, or green. There were almost no differences, no explanations.

[Sequin]

A lot of the quotes I am reading from the OP are actually accurate in terms of what they "promised," so I wanted to address one of them. Per the OP, here is a Casey Hudson quote that is being used as a means of being misleading to gamers:

*****
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.” - Casey Hudson
*****

There is nothing about this quote that is false. The characters you have come to love over the course of the past few games do see resolution. You do not get an epilogue, that is true, but you do see them mature into new individuals capable of standing on their own two feet. Whether it be Jack, who becomes a teacher... or Grunt, who has earned respect as a Krogan... or Jacob, who is now in a healthy relationship and away from Cerberus... or Miranda, who resolves her family issues... all of these characters do get their resolution. And yes, depending on what you choose to do, they can be resolved quite differently (some of them fatally).

The backstory of the universe is also divulged quite a bit and we get a lot of answers regarding the Prothean species (not to mention seeing a non-corrupted Prothean and learning about what their culture was like). We learn a great deal about the Prothean relationship to the Asari. We get answers about the Reapers (not great ones, but they are still answers and the point is that the statement is not a false one).

Point being, I see nothing about that quote that misleads.

[Grasich]

Wearyanna wrote...

This is some free speculation as well as a small plead to those it may concern.

There has never been such a thing as false marketing for Mass Effect 3. Before you vent your anger at me please continue to read. 
Yes, the outcry was probably more than you ever expected and one can only regret the harsh, bitter threatening words against specific employees and everthing else that comes with this kind of negative attention these days, Bioware you did not deserve that! 
What is going on now isn't a part of the original marketing strategy perhaps for the time between March 6 and April 6. But still it's working in the way to get the Mass Effect franchise to become the most talked about in gaming history, with the gamers working very hard to find ways to get the messages out despite of what their personal preferrences might be on the game in total.
It's called free marketing, and all of us posting in the forums, joining in Facebook gruops, posting in blogs and on Twitter are playing right along in this. So there is no bad publicity, perhaps.

It's evidently clear that the current ending never was the "real" or "canon" ending for the series. The more you watch it or play it the more hollow it gets. So why go through all of this?
Because if you create a need, people will do a lot to satisfy it. That is basic in gameplaying you want more if you like it. The former EA president said that the future for many games lies in micropayment. Play Battlefield for a few hours get caught up in the game, run out of ammo and of course you will buy some more ammo for a few coins. WoW has lived on this for years so EA is not solely to be blamed for this.

If I may continue, the current EA president states in this interview from last year that a way for the gaming industry to make money is through DLC. This is not unique for EA, this is a well renowned fact that I doubt anyone will argue with. Sad perhaps, but it gets more content out faster which is good for us as gamers, it doesn't come with as high a pricetag as an expansion. Gamers get more to game play faster, gaming companies make money and can develop more DLC, a win win.

However if this is a, shall we call it, social experiment on Bioware/EA:s behalf to see if the need is so great that a large portion of the Mass Effect gaming community will feel it to be an absolute must, to buy the "ment to be" canon ending, then congratulations are in order. In terms of need you've succeeded, but I strongly urge you to rethink potential fee's for a DLC with an "epic ending", because that will probably outrage the gamers even more.
What the outcome of that might be, you can probably count for yourselves after the controverses the last weeks.
I want Bioware to continue making games, in the word of Grunt "Shepard is my battlemaster she has no match." And no, you have no match when it comes to RPG storydriven games.

So hopefully both Bioware/EA and the gaming community will wake up from this nightmare an experience richer, with our brands, wallets and love of games intact. Let us continue to be on the same side in this, the side of enjoying great games to the fullest!

Wearyanna out  

Personally I have no issues with DLC. Anything that lets me get more content in a game I love is good in my book. Is it abused a little? Maybe. Regardless, it allows for us to add content to games that we really love, while ignoring it if you find it uninteresting.

I do, however, have an issue with a company if it makes promises about the game, and then makes us buy DLC in order to fulfill those promises. At this point though, I'll happily pay for a new end for ME3 simply because it is my favorite series of all time, and it really deserves better than what it got.

I just find it such a shame that a series that is otherwise 99.9% amazing is ruined in such a short timespan gameplay-wise.

Is the rest of the series perfect? Not by a long shot. However, it's done in such a way that it is very easy to ignore the bad points and focus on the good. The ending, however, really doesn't allow for that.

So, BioWare, PLEASE redo the ending via DLC. Don't just expand on the current ending, either do indoc theory or re-do the end entirely. Do that, and you will have gone a long way to repairing your relationship with us: your fans AND your customers.

[firebreather19]

A big question I have is, with or without the suggested false advertising, would it have changed anything? How many of you would or would not have bought the game if you only knew it was coming out and had heard nothing from Hudson, Gamble, etc.? The biggest advertisement for that game were ME1 and ME2. Hudson could have said I'd be running around in a tutu for an hour and I'd still buy the game new, collectors edition, at midnight.

[The Angry One]

firebreather19 wrote...

A big question I have is, with or without the suggested false advertising, would it have changed anything? How many of you would or would not have bought the game if you only knew it was coming out and had heard nothing from Hudson, Gamble, etc.? The biggest advertisement for that game were ME1 and ME2. Hudson could have said I'd be running around in a tutu for an hour and I'd still buy the game new, collectors edition, at midnight.

I will say again, I bought the Collector's Edition and spent the extra money based on the promises made.
It very much influenced my decision.

[Ultra Prism]

Lots of Speculations and Space Magic ... works for Bioware ... now we are upset

no matter
I will HOLD THE LINE

[Kushan101]

Sequin wrote...

A lot of the quotes I am reading from the OP are actually accurate in terms of what they "promised," so I wanted to address one of them. Per the OP, here is a Casey Hudson quote that is being used as a means of being misleading to gamers:

*****
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.” - Casey Hudson
*****

There is nothing about this quote that is false. The characters you have come to love over the course of the past few games do see resolution. You do not get an epilogue, that is true, but you do see them mature into new individuals capable of standing on their own two feet. Whether it be Jack, who becomes a teacher... or Grunt, who has earned respect as a Krogan... or Jacob, who is now in a healthy relationship and away from Cerberus... or Miranda, who resolves her family issues... all of these characters do get their resolution. And yes, depending on what you choose to do, they can be resolved quite differently (some of them fatally).

The backstory of the universe is also divulged quite a bit and we get a lot of answers regarding the Prothean species (not to mention seeing a non-corrupted Prothean and learning about what their culture was like). We learn a great deal about the Prothean relationship to the Asari. We get answers about the Reapers (not great ones, but they are still answers and the point is that the statement is not a false one).

Point being, I see nothing about that quote that misleads.

I see the point your making, but I can't agree. Yes, we see where the characters have progressed to from the end of ME2 and in what way they are contributing (or not) to the war against the reapers. But everything after that is left completely up in the air - we have no idea if they even survived. I would hardly call that "resolution".

[Syrellaris]

Actually, I doubt you can call it false advertising to be honest. You could copy and paste the websters Dictionairy outline of advertisement as much as you want, but that does not make things Bioware developers say advertising.

Specially when everything they say during the development process falls under the "subject to change" line.

So no, I do not think they lied or made any promises that were set in stone.

[firebreather19]

Lavits75 wrote...

ME2 could end in so many different ways. The whole non-party crew could die or be saved. Everyone party crew member could die or all could make it out alive. 98% of them could live and one dies. And the person who dies varies completely. You could hand over the base or destroy it.

ME2 had so many different aspects to it's ending and you knew what was going on. ME3 had three choices. Red, blue, or green. There were almost no differences, no explanations.

Not really, there were 2 endings...base destroyed or base salvaged, and 2 subendings for each...shep lives, shep dies...with different loyalty missions and placement of characters determining whether they live or die. Treat ME3 like one big suicide mission and you'll see it's really the same.

[Reptilian Rob]

firebreather19 wrote...

A big question I have is, with or without the suggested false advertising, would it have changed anything? How many of you would or would not have bought the game if you only knew it was coming out and had heard nothing from Hudson, Gamble, etc.? The biggest advertisement for that game were ME1 and ME2. Hudson could have said I'd be running around in a tutu for an hour and I'd still buy the game new, collectors edition, at midnight.

So you would rather them lie out of their ass than be silent? Hell, at least with that we could have just taken it as "well, at least they never lead us the wrong way." As it stands now, they deliberately lied to us at face. 

That's like me saying "Here's a lawnmower." Only for the person who purchased it to realize it was actually a thirty megaton nuclear trittium encased warhead, and when he pulled the cord to start it it vaporized his entire city. Of course I could always say "Hey, I never NOT said it was a thirty megaton fusion/fission bomb!"

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 22 mars 2012 - 10:42 .

[The Angry One]

Syrellaris wrote...

Actually, I doubt you can call it false advertising to be honest. You could copy and paste the websters Dictionairy outline of advertisement as much as you want, but that does not make things Bioware developers say advertising.

Specially when everything they say during the development process falls under the "subject to change" line.

So no, I do not think they lied or made any promises that were set in stone.

Except, from Final Hours, we know they were planning this crummy railroad ending from the start.
So we were in fact mislead.

[Silveralen]

firebreather19 wrote...

A big question I have is, with or without the suggested false advertising, would it have changed anything? How many of you would or would not have bought the game if you only knew it was coming out and had heard nothing from Hudson, Gamble, etc.? The biggest advertisement for that game were ME1 and ME2. Hudson could have said I'd be running around in a tutu for an hour and I'd still buy the game new, collectors edition, at midnight.

It is the culmination of many aspects we didn't like. The lack of options, the lack of consquences, the deception, the general oddness of the entire star child sequence, etc

We don't like many things about, but if I hadn't seen this, i wouldn't actually want to, or fel we should, ask for altered endings. However, I feel, due to thes comments, Bioware has something of an obligation to correct it.

In short, without these misleadng comments, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking Bioware for anything, but that is just me.

Also, thanks to Thomas for the clarification.

Modifié par Silveralen, 22 mars 2012 - 10:41 .