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Commentary for BioWare on false advertising


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#176
spacefiddle

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Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

Just so.

Thanks for letting this open up to discussion again, by the way.

I'm so confused by the contrast between all the ads and descriptions of the game I heard until release, and the game I actually got, I really can't fathom it.  It feels like we'll never have enough info to know what really happened.

This isn't a matter of some vague, leading language that got misinterpreted.  This represents a major shift in the direction of the game; a complete about-face on how the resolution and climax would be handled and presented, in every way.  It's so completely unrelated that it almost defies comment.

There's really no room for debate on whether these statements reflect the state of the game as it was launched.  More to the point, I don't think they were ever intended to.  I can't imagine that Bioware would say these things for so long, while planning all along to simply give us what we got.  It doesn't add up.

The only way we're ever going to really be able to talk about this is if Bioware comes clean with what really happened: what influenced the decisions to abandon these ideas, why they were made in secret, and whether or not there was some well-intentioned but poorly-handled plan all along to break the "real" ending up into parts, with a reveal to come next about the meaning of the Godkid and the Citadel convo, the truth of the location of the rubble and The Breath, etc. 

It seems like the game is in some odd state between the original vision and some new retcon last-minute revisions.  Maybe, at the end, the plan was to get it out the door already, wink and hint about "more to come!" and then present more content later, when it was done.

However it came about, there was obviously no empathy for the human gamer sitting at their computer, having started the game with the original description in mind, and left hanging instead with nothing that resembled it.  Surely someone must have thought it through?  Were they overriden?  Was it downplayed?  Was it thought that the backlash would be "not so bad," or maybe people convinced themselves it would be a great tension-builder and PR stunt?  Could everyone at BW really have not predicted the emotional, gut reactions of players who experienced this?

There are far too many questions we don't have the answers to.  It comes down to: the description on the box does not match the contents of the box.  There's really no question there.  The conversation about that cannot proceed until we know why.

#177
Tommytsunami

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[quote]firebreather19 wrote...



Not sure what you mean, the galaxy is very much not destroyed? 
That's all subjective. Everything I did in ME3 mattered. 

But in comparison to ME2, it's still the same. If you didn't do the loyalty missions and no ship upgrades, everyone died and you had no one to catch you. Then you died.

If you don't secure enough assets, you die and Earth is destroyed. 

I can play the end sequence of ME2 over and over and it'll go the same way, just with different roles. The base destroyed/saved is the same as Reapers being destroyed/leaving of their own will/leaving because of Shepard's control. 


[/quote]

That is something that should have been clarified (the universe sitll being there) as it was never mentioned that this destruction of the relays was different than what happened in Arrival. From the established lore it should be implied that everything was destroyed when the relays blew up.

I know this is just nitpicking and it isn't even a point that I care all that much about, but the fact that they didn't explain how it would be different leaves the fans to fall back on part of the lore they have already established, i.e. what happened in Arrival.

[/quote]

They did? If Joker was near enough to a relay to be caught in red/green/blue light, I'm assuming they were close enough to be vaporized by a mass relay going nuclear. 

[/quote]

And that is the issue with that scene. They don't explain why the ship was not vaporized or why this explosion would be different. Like I said this is not a point that gets to me, but I do have a good amount of friends that feel as if this was a major plot hole.

Also to cover your other response to me in this to avoid multiple posts, yes I purchased the collectors edition based on the belief that the choices you made through the trilogy would play a much larger role in the ending. Had I known that the endings would have turned out the same (or very similar) I would have been completely fine with not having Javik. I purchased the collectors edition more to support a developer who I like more so than I did for the goodies. 

I guess the proper way to say it is had I known the ending would have turned out this way I would have waited to get the game down the road as I do with most. Based on the fact that the Mass Effect franchise is in among my favorites and from the hype (yes I'm aware me hyping it played a part in my disappointment, but my hype came from their promises) I felt it was worth getting the collectors edition. I didn't have those for the other two games, but I figured I might as well go all in for the grand finale of one of my favorite series.

Modifié par Tommytsunami, 22 mars 2012 - 11:23 .


#178
McScroggz24

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I understand people claiming false advertisement, but MY perspective is that FA is attributed to more literal claims. I.E. a store claiming they will match any other stores prices on like items only to say they can't lower their price to match a competitor. And even then there could always be some fine print. If anything Mass Effect 3 did a very poor job of delivering on some of it's problems.

#179
azereus2

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man oh man, reading this made me even angrier :(
i mean no dude no, you cant just laugh on my face, and run away with my money. I am so dissapointed about this, read it dudes, read that, they saying they will not create a game with the same endings for everyone, saying the rachni have an impact on the final battle.
what final battle? where? where are the rachni y saved on mass effect 1 and 3 fighting reapers? did i missed that? could some1 please point me out to that? how to get there? what paragon/renegages i should use to see that happening. How can you vomit words like that, inflating the costumers to a point of no return and then walk away like nothing happened. man, oh man i so want to punch some one in the face.

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.” how can you write something like that knowing it isnt true?... i should leave this forum it keep destroying the last respect i have for bioware. they are loosing loyal costumer, dude i have invested more than 600 hours in your game, how come you lie to me like that. i so want to cry :(

#180
whydoyouwanttoknow

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The law on false advertising in Australia says that it's false advertising if it makes claims that are untrue, or something like that. I imagine it's the same most places.

#181
Tommytsunami

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McScroggz24 wrote...

I understand people claiming false advertisement, but MY perspective is that FA is attributed to more literal claims. I.E. a store claiming they will match any other stores prices on like items only to say they can't lower their price to match a competitor. And even then there could always be some fine print. If anything Mass Effect 3 did a very poor job of delivering on some of it's problems.


Part of the reason I think it comes off as false advertising is they kept making claims about the ending, as can be seen from the segments in the OP, even after they some knew what the ending would be. Why hype the ending to be something that you know it wont be?

#182
firebreather19

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Tommytsunami wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Tommytsunami wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Lavits75 wrote...

ME2 could end in so many different ways. The whole non-party crew could die or be saved. Everyone party crew member could die or all could make it out alive. 98% of them could live and one dies. And the person who dies varies completely. You could hand over the base or destroy it.

ME2 had so many different aspects to it's ending and you knew what was going on. ME3 had three choices. Red, blue, or green. There were almost no differences, no explanations.


Not really, there were 2 endings...base destroyed or base salvaged, and 2 subendings for each...shep lives, shep dies...with different loyalty missions and placement of characters determining whether they live or die. Treat ME3 like one big suicide mission and you'll see it's really the same.


Like hell it is. Your choices in ME2 mattered in the end, it determined who lived and who died with both loyalty missions and ship upgrades.
Nothing you do in ME3 matters, no matter what you still get the same ending where the galaxy is destroyed, in 3 coloured variants. Oh and if you get enough EMS you unlock the super secret ending where you do what Saren wanted all along! 
Yeah that's not the story I wanted to shape.


Not sure what you mean, the galaxy is very much not destroyed? 
That's all subjective. Everything I did in ME3 mattered. 

But in comparison to ME2, it's still the same. If you didn't do the loyalty missions and no ship upgrades, everyone died and you had no one to catch you. Then you died.

If you don't secure enough assets, you die and Earth is destroyed. 

I can play the end sequence of ME2 over and over and it'll go the same way, just with different roles. The base destroyed/saved is the same as Reapers being destroyed/leaving of their own will/leaving because of Shepard's control. 



That is something that should have been clarified (the universe sitll being there) as it was never mentioned that this destruction of the relays was different than what happened in Arrival. From the established lore it should be implied that everything was destroyed when the relays blew up.

I know this is just nitpicking and it isn't even a point that I care all that much about, but the fact that they didn't explain how it would be different leaves the fans to fall back on part of the lore they have already established, i.e. what happened in Arrival.


They did? If Joker was near enough to a relay to be caught in red/green/blue light, I'm assuming they were close enough to be vaporized by a mass relay going nuclear. 


And that is the issue with that scene. They don't explain why the ship was not vaporized or why this explosion would be different. Like I said this is not a point that gets to me, but I do have a good amount of friends that feel as if this was a major plot hole.

Also to cover your other response to me in this to avoid multiple posts, yes I purchased the collectors edition based on the belief that the choices you made through the trilogy would play a much larger role in the ending. Had I known that the endings would have turned out the same (or very similar) I would have been completely fine with not having Javik. I purchased the collectors edition more to support a developer who I like more so than I did for the goodies. 

I guess the proper way to say it is had I known the ending would have turned out this way I would have waited to get the game down the road as I do with most. Based on the fact that the Mass Effect franchise is in among my favorites and from the hype (yes I'm aware me hyping it played a part in my disappointment, but my hype came from their promises) I felt it was worth getting the collectors edition. I didn't have those for the other two games, but I figured I might as well go all in for the grand finale of one of my favorite series.


Understandable, but let me ask you one more question: what played a bigger role in you purchasing the game? What the developers said or you own personal experiences with Mass Effect 1 and 2?

#183
Guest_corpselover_*

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spacefiddle wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

A pity, the last one got closed, you made very good points. The only reason I preordered my Mass Effect 3 instead of just waiting to purchase it was because I was incentivized by those promises.

Just so.

Thanks for letting this open up to discussion again, by the way.

I'm so confused by the contrast between all the ads and descriptions of the game I heard until release, and the game I actually got, I really can't fathom it.  It feels like we'll never have enough info to know what really happened.

This isn't a matter of some vague, leading language that got misinterpreted.  This represents a major shift in the direction of the game; a complete about-face on how the resolution and climax would be handled and presented, in every way.  It's so completely unrelated that it almost defies comment.

There's really no room for debate on whether these statements reflect the state of the game as it was launched.  More to the point, I don't think they were ever intended to.  I can't imagine that Bioware would say these things for so long, while planning all along to simply give us what we got.  It doesn't add up.

The only way we're ever going to really be able to talk about this is if Bioware comes clean with what really happened: what influenced the decisions to abandon these ideas, why they were made in secret, and whether or not there was some well-intentioned but poorly-handled plan all along to break the "real" ending up into parts, with a reveal to come next about the meaning of the Godkid and the Citadel convo, the truth of the location of the rubble and The Breath, etc. 

It seems like the game is in some odd state between the original vision and some new retcon last-minute revisions.  Maybe, at the end, the plan was to get it out the door already, wink and hint about "more to come!" and then present more content later, when it was done.

However it came about, there was obviously no empathy for the human gamer sitting at their computer, having started the game with the original description in mind, and left hanging instead with nothing that resembled it.  Surely someone must have thought it through?  Were they overriden?  Was it downplayed?  Was it thought that the backlash would be "not so bad," or maybe people convinced themselves it would be a great tension-builder and PR stunt?  Could everyone at BW really have not predicted the emotional, gut reactions of players who experienced this?

There are far too many questions we don't have the answers to.  It comes down to: the description on the box does not match the contents of the box.  There's really no question there.  The conversation about that cannot proceed until we know why.


A really big question for me would have to be why then did they continue to push the concept of the original vision for the ending after they had already decided to change it. A lot of the quotes in the op are from after the completion of the game. By that point they knew the content of the ending, but chose to issue undeniably false statements about the content anyway.

#184
spacefiddle

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McScroggz24 wrote...

I understand people claiming false advertisement, but MY perspective

It's a legal term, it's not really subject to our persepctive.  Unless you're a qualified judge, I suppose.  It's even defined in the OP to prevent this kind of derailment of the thread.

#185
SimonM72

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I don't have the words for this compilation of quotage, It makes me feel like I have been purposely misled, and yes I do want an explanation as to just how much all of this appears to be left by the wayside.
I bought Mass Effect 3 CE because of all these promises and I absolutely do want an explanation as to what happened.

Modifié par SimonM72, 22 mars 2012 - 11:19 .


#186
firebreather19

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azereus2 wrote...

man oh man, reading this made me even angrier :(
i mean no dude no, you cant just laugh on my face, and run away with my money. I am so dissapointed about this, read it dudes, read that, they saying they will not create a game with the same endings for everyone, saying the rachni have an impact on the final battle.
what final battle? where? where are the rachni y saved on mass effect 1 and 3 fighting reapers? did i missed that? could some1 please point me out to that? how to get there? what paragon/renegages i should use to see that happening. How can you vomit words like that, inflating the costumers to a point of no return and then walk away like nothing happened. man, oh man i so want to punch some one in the face.

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.” how can you write something like that knowing it isnt true?... i should leave this forum it keep destroying the last respect i have for bioware. they are loosing loyal costumer, dude i have invested more than 600 hours in your game, how come you lie to me like that. i so want to cry :(


They didn't really. The story is unlike any other, you have experienced the beginning, middle, and end, and your decisions from ME1-3 have shaped a fantastic and personal experience. What you did isn't what I did...at some point in time, you made a different decision than me. I think you're upset about the ending, and that's fine, but don't be so quick to write off those 600 hours. Would you write off the 90 years of your life when you're on your death bed? I know I'd love to have the ability to replay it all again, to see how things would be different with different decisions. Sure sometimes the paths, though different, still converge to lead me to the same place, but the journey is still important. 

Take care :)

#187
AlexXIV

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corpselover wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

People, stop arguing with trolls. They will just drag you everywhere to get the thread closed. ME2 is off topic, discuss it in the ME2 forum. However I think the OP is pretty clear about the point of false advertising. I mean you can't even stretch it so the things can somehow be justified. However, I don't think they planned lying on us. They probably talked about a version of the game that didn't made it into the final product. However, and apology from Bioware would be in order. I mean, ffs, can they not once in a lifetime just say that some crap happened or whatever? It's not like people can't see it.


Not off topic, it's definitely important. If people were promised things in ME2 that weren't delivered, then why didn't this happen then as well? It means it has nothing at all to do with false advertising, but the claim of false advertising is used for wanting more endings. Like I said, this has been going on for decades and I can find twenty things in every one of your homes (probably) that promise(d) to do something that it didn't. Why ME3, why Bioware, why now? Definitely not off topic. 


Again, poor behavior by one group does not justify poor behavior by another.

The fact that 'others do it too' doesn't change the situation. Will you legalize murder because some people get away with it? The OP claims that they lied and obviously these statements from Bioware don't hold water in ME3. It's false advertisement, period. If you want to criticise ME2 for that and file a complaint then do it. But don't come here telling us that we can't hold Bioware by their word just because they are notorious liars.

#188
KingKhan03

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firebreather19 wrote...

Tommytsunami wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Tommytsunami wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Lavits75 wrote...

ME2 could end in so many different ways. The whole non-party crew could die or be saved. Everyone party crew member could die or all could make it out alive. 98% of them could live and one dies. And the person who dies varies completely. You could hand over the base or destroy it.

ME2 had so many different aspects to it's ending and you knew what was going on. ME3 had three choices. Red, blue, or green. There were almost no differences, no explanations.


Not really, there were 2 endings...base destroyed or base salvaged, and 2 subendings for each...shep lives, shep dies...with different loyalty missions and placement of characters determining whether they live or die. Treat ME3 like one big suicide mission and you'll see it's really the same.


Like hell it is. Your choices in ME2 mattered in the end, it determined who lived and who died with both loyalty missions and ship upgrades.
Nothing you do in ME3 matters, no matter what you still get the same ending where the galaxy is destroyed, in 3 coloured variants. Oh and if you get enough EMS you unlock the super secret ending where you do what Saren wanted all along! 
Yeah that's not the story I wanted to shape.


Not sure what you mean, the galaxy is very much not destroyed? 
That's all subjective. Everything I did in ME3 mattered. 

But in comparison to ME2, it's still the same. If you didn't do the loyalty missions and no ship upgrades, everyone died and you had no one to catch you. Then you died.

If you don't secure enough assets, you die and Earth is destroyed. 

I can play the end sequence of ME2 over and over and it'll go the same way, just with different roles. The base destroyed/saved is the same as Reapers being destroyed/leaving of their own will/leaving because of Shepard's control. 



That is something that should have been clarified (the universe sitll being there) as it was never mentioned that this destruction of the relays was different than what happened in Arrival. From the established lore it should be implied that everything was destroyed when the relays blew up.

I know this is just nitpicking and it isn't even a point that I care all that much about, but the fact that they didn't explain how it would be different leaves the fans to fall back on part of the lore they have already established, i.e. what happened in Arrival.


They did? If Joker was near enough to a relay to be caught in red/green/blue light, I'm assuming they were close enough to be vaporized by a mass relay going nuclear. 


And that is the issue with that scene. They don't explain why the ship was not vaporized or why this explosion would be different. Like I said this is not a point that gets to me, but I do have a good amount of friends that feel as if this was a major plot hole.

Also to cover your other response to me in this to avoid multiple posts, yes I purchased the collectors edition based on the belief that the choices you made through the trilogy would play a much larger role in the ending. Had I known that the endings would have turned out the same (or very similar) I would have been completely fine with not having Javik. I purchased the collectors edition more to support a developer who I like more so than I did for the goodies. 

I guess the proper way to say it is had I known the ending would have turned out this way I would have waited to get the game down the road as I do with most. Based on the fact that the Mass Effect franchise is in among my favorites and from the hype (yes I'm aware me hyping it played a part in my disappointment, but my hype came from their promises) I felt it was worth getting the collectors edition. I didn't have those for the other two games, but I figured I might as well go all in for the grand finale of one of my favorite series.


Understandable, but let me ask you one more question: what played a bigger role in you purchasing the game? What the developers said or you own personal experiences with Mass Effect 1 and 2?


I loved ME1 and 2 and thats why ME3 was so bad because it made the first 2 pretty much irrelevant the story derailed and went in a whole new weird direction.

#189
McScroggz24

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Tommytsunami wrote...

McScroggz24 wrote...

I understand people claiming false advertisement, but MY perspective is that FA is attributed to more literal claims. I.E. a store claiming they will match any other stores prices on like items only to say they can't lower their price to match a competitor. And even then there could always be some fine print. If anything Mass Effect 3 did a very poor job of delivering on some of it's problems.


Part of the reason I think it comes off as false advertising is they kept making claims about the ending, as can be seen from the segments in the OP, even after they some knew what the ending would be. Why hype the ending to be something that you know it wont be?


While very poorly done, I THINK what Casey Hudson might have seen in the endings is the speculation of your choices is quite different, although much of what they show you and what immediately happens is immensly similar. So, it's kinda a metaphilosophical extropolation that shows the varying ending/s which was promised pre-release. I hope I made sense there, haha.

#190
Tommytsunami

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[/quote]

Understandable, but let me ask you one more question: what played a bigger role in you purchasing the game? What the developers said or you own personal experiences with Mass Effect 1 and 2?

[/quote]

Both. My own experience with the previous two games got me excited, but I would have been willing to hold off on the game had I known what would follow. The developer promises merely caused that experience to essentaily compound with the view of the ending I got from reading the interviews. I had been expecting vastly different endings and since I have multiple careers I was excited to see how each played out differently. I could have easily waited for the game and focus that extra time on something else, but I felt that from the promises made it was worth purchasing the game at release. And like I said the promises led me to believe (probably my own fault since I know devs don't always come through with promises.... I'm looking at you Molyneux!) that purchasing the game early and even putting out the extra cash ($20 is not much for the amount of extra content in the CE so thank you Bioware) for the collectors edition to support the conclusion to this epic saga. 

Modifié par Tommytsunami, 22 mars 2012 - 11:22 .


#191
DuneMuadDib

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Reading all the "false advertising" quotes shakes my trust in what Bioware tells consumers, regardless of how (for lack of a better word) honest they are. For example:

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Killing the Rachni queen or not in ME1 mildly affects the ME3 mission, just like killing or not killing Wrex in ME1 mildly affects ME2 and ME3 Tuchunka. I don't have any ire for that because I understand it's a necessary limitation to the storytelling so things don't get too bloated with branching stories at that point in the game.

I don't consider the net gain of 75 war assets to be a "huge consequence" in the game. No decisions I make affect the role of the Rachni beyond being a war asset. If I kill the queen I can make up the difference with a little multiplayer. This one example to me if not false advertising is at least very misleading and hurts my trust for what I'm told by Bioware.

On the other hand if I romance Miranda in ME2 but break up with her the first time I see her in ME3 she will die. That doesn't affect the war assets at all, but I would consider that a much bigger consequence after spending ME2 with her as part of my grew. The Rachni were a footnote, Miranda is a supporting character. Nothing with her affects the end of the game, but there's a more palpable consequence.

Just one example, there are many more I could make but I'm going to address that elsewhere.

Hold the Line.

#192
magor1988x

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It definitely makes you reexamine the media hype machine built around the video game industry.

Video game review sites & news sites have little reason to check video game developers because the vast majority of their ad revenue.... is from video game developers.

Do you think IGN, who has a former employee & has received thousands of dollars from BW to put ads for ME3 & other BW games on their site, is really going to side with the customers on the issue of the endings? Are they really going to work to hold BW (Or any developer) hype game in check? No.

It runs counter to their interest. IGN gets as many views from causing controversy with their readers as they get for supporting them & views determine how much they can charge for ads, which are paid for by game developers. You see this sort of merry go round all the time. In politics (Government gives money in grants to X group, X group donates money to politicians who vote for it, government gives out more money... And around & around we go.)

Its a shame that is how the world works, but there it is.

BW promised us the moon & stars with Dragon Age II & Mass Effect 3. In the case of DAII, they did not deliver. In the case of ME3 they delivered incredibly well...

Until you reach the ending.

#193
Tommytsunami

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Stop the pyramids or I report you, it is not allowed to do that.




Sorry about that, I don't post on these forums often so I guess I had forgotten about that. I'll go back and edit my posts

#194
DaosX

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azereus2 wrote...

man oh man, reading this made me even angrier :(
i mean no dude no, you cant just laugh on my face, and run away with my money. I am so dissapointed about this, read it dudes, read that, they saying they will not create a game with the same endings for everyone, saying the rachni have an impact on the final battle.
what final battle? where? where are the rachni y saved on mass effect 1 and 3 fighting reapers? did i missed that? could some1 please point me out to that? how to get there? what paragon/renegages i should use to see that happening. How can you vomit words like that, inflating the costumers to a point of no return and then walk away like nothing happened. man, oh man i so want to punch some one in the face.

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.” how can you write something like that knowing it isnt true?... i should leave this forum it keep destroying the last respect i have for bioware. they are loosing loyal costumer, dude i have invested more than 600 hours in your game, how come you lie to me like that. i so want to cry :(


Reading this, this quote comes to mind:

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Like alot of the people on these boards, I think I've developed a bitter resentment toward Bioware after years of supporting them (if you look at the icons beside my name, I have every Bioware game released even Kotor and Jade Empire). Bioware is like a girlfriend you really loved...but cheated on you. That kinda love/hate relationship. It's like, I hate them because I used to really, really like them. Back when ME2 came out, I would LITERALLY go around telling people that it was the best game I've ever played...to some extent it was. I loved it to the point that I even bought it on ALL versions (XBox, PS3, and PC) to support Bioware's awesome work. So as you can imagine I was REALLY looking forward to ME3. With all the lies...I mean, hype it recieved and (false) promises that were made, I truly thought it would be the next great RPG. How dead wrong I was...but then I remember that quote again:

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Hahaha, you got me, Bioware. You got me good...however this time I learned my lesson and I won't be fooled again...



P.S. - Anyone notice how the PR thread is gone? Looks like Bioware got scared...

#195
Foxcat

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 With those comments in mind it's nearly impossible to not feel betrayed by this ending.  It provides nother we were promised and instead provides precisely what we were told we would NOT get.

The current ending provides:
--No closure
--Ample space magic
--Limited and nearly identical outcomes regardless of choice
--Rachni are nearly irrelevant
--Unrealistic

Bioware...please fix the ending to you most beloved franchise for us and for yourselves!

#196
firebreather19

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AlexXIV wrote...

corpselover wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

People, stop arguing with trolls. They will just drag you everywhere to get the thread closed. ME2 is off topic, discuss it in the ME2 forum. However I think the OP is pretty clear about the point of false advertising. I mean you can't even stretch it so the things can somehow be justified. However, I don't think they planned lying on us. They probably talked about a version of the game that didn't made it into the final product. However, and apology from Bioware would be in order. I mean, ffs, can they not once in a lifetime just say that some crap happened or whatever? It's not like people can't see it.


Not off topic, it's definitely important. If people were promised things in ME2 that weren't delivered, then why didn't this happen then as well? It means it has nothing at all to do with false advertising, but the claim of false advertising is used for wanting more endings. Like I said, this has been going on for decades and I can find twenty things in every one of your homes (probably) that promise(d) to do something that it didn't. Why ME3, why Bioware, why now? Definitely not off topic. 


Again, poor behavior by one group does not justify poor behavior by another.

The fact that 'others do it too' doesn't change the situation. Will you legalize murder because some people get away with it? The OP claims that they lied and obviously these statements from Bioware don't hold water in ME3. It's false advertisement, period. If you want to criticise ME2 for that and file a complaint then do it. But don't come here telling us that we can't hold Bioware by their word just because they are notorious liars.


It does hurt your own credibility though by painting you as using these claims of false advertisement to further your own desire for new endings. You just happened to like ME2's ending, that's the difference. 

It's not the same as "legalizing" murder, but is it hypocritical for people to get uberupset over a man's murder when hundreds if not thousands of individuals are murdered everyday and no one says anything? 

#197
McScroggz24

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BTW, I just looked at all my Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights games and just sighed...oh the good ol' days.

#198
Myrmedus

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Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”


That comment killed me the most, for in my opinion it was the most important thing to include in ME3 - and a mechanic that would've given BW breathing room to try a more 'artistic' ending as one of the options - and yet was completely and utterly absent, to my absolute shock.

#199
Mesmurae

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You know, it won't be long before this thread gets locked. Bioware has gone on a locking spree, closing down threads that point out their mistakes.

So... yeah.

#200
jspiess

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McScroggz24 wrote...

Tommytsunami wrote...

McScroggz24 wrote...

I understand people claiming false advertisement, but MY perspective is that FA is attributed to more literal claims. I.E. a store claiming they will match any other stores prices on like items only to say they can't lower their price to match a competitor. And even then there could always be some fine print. If anything Mass Effect 3 did a very poor job of delivering on some of it's problems.


Part of the reason I think it comes off as false advertising is they kept making claims about the ending, as can be seen from the segments in the OP, even after they some knew what the ending would be. Why hype the ending to be something that you know it wont be?


While very poorly done, I THINK what Casey Hudson might have seen in the endings is the speculation of your choices is quite different, although much of what they show you and what immediately happens is immensly similar. So, it's kinda a metaphilosophical extropolation that shows the varying ending/s which was promised pre-release. I hope I made sense there, haha.


The only part I agree with in your post is that it is poorly done...very poorly done.