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[Venturisection]

 "I'm sure wherever he is he's putting in a good word for us." - Where was the option so I couldn't say that. Sorry but religion is nonsense. Genital Mutilation - some of the weird stuff Rabbis do, the practises they seemingly are still doing in Egypt on Muslim Girls and for it to be in ME3 with that abomination of an end reaks. It shows how much of a detachment from the rest of the series ME3 really is.

I couldn't stand it when I heard that line mainly because it is so out of place. I have heard no line like that before in the series and most of the time it wasn't about putting "Faith" in some  ridiculous deity but overcoming the odds and for the end to be pretty much a "GOD" like meeting the creator really was ridiculous.

Thanks for forcing ridiculous Religious nonsense on us Bioware. 

[Warhawk7137]

Venturisection wrote...

 "I'm sure wherever he is he's putting in a good word for us." - Where was the option so I couldn't say that. Sorry but religion is nonsense. Genital Mutilation - some of the weird stuff Rabbis do, the practises they seemingly are still doing in Egypt on Muslim Girls and for it to be in ME3 with that abomination of an end reaks. It shows how much of a detachment from the rest of the series ME3 really is.

I couldn't stand it when I heard that line mainly because it is so out of place. I have heard no line like that before in the series and most of the time it wasn't about putting "Faith" in some  ridiculous deity but overcoming the odds and for the end to be pretty much a "GOD" like meeting the creator really was ridiculous.

Thanks for forcing ridiculous Religious nonsense on us Bioware. 

See, this is the kind of attitude that is the problem.  While I agree that more options would be preferable in such a situation, this ridiculous bile toward anything and everything religious in nature gets us nowhere.  It doesn't reflect well on the people expressing that attiude, and it certainly doesn't help us reach any kind of understanding between diverse groups or help improve us as a species.

[UrgentArchengel]

As somebody that refuses to be labeled under any religion including being an atheist, or rather just refuses to follow a single belief(Crisis of faith maybe?). I just though that Garrus was using human references to get really deep. Gotta love Garrbear. Lol for my bro.

[Relwyn]

Aesieru wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

I also think it has to do with the whole end of the world thing. If people believe the end is coming, a lot of them tend to start thinking about that kind of thing more. Death, afterlife, what does it all mean, etc. when you're faced with impending death and loss of everything you know and love...

That's the "No Atheists in Foxholes" argument, which is kind of bull****.

But I can see Shepard just saying these things out of either habit or to comfort others.

I still don't know anyone who was in the military that when they were in severe harms way and thought they might die that didn't say a quick prayer out of hope.

Sorry to break your bubble mate, but I do. 

[Sifr]

To be honest, while I dislike the Godchild ending, I don't see him as a God, more of an egotistical "A God Am I" kind of entity.

And I disagree, the series was never overtly religious. Throughout the series, Shepard actually can express they are either agnostic, non-secular, or simply pantheistic. In fact, most of the time, Shepard seemingly embraces all religions from their allies, whether it be the Abrahamic God, the Turian Spirits, the Drell pantheon, the Enkindlers or even "Keelah Se'lai: By the Homeworld I hope to see one day".

In my mind, Shepard's faith lies in people, not gods, and if so, has always been simply what they said about the universe in the first game;

"Humanity's future is out here. There is so much we haven't seen yet..."

[commanderkai]

To be honest, I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't a bit more religion, or at least, more spiritual reflection. Shepard was literally leading all surviving sentient forces in the Galaxy against the vanguards of the Apocalypse. It would have been interesting to see your crew, both alien and human, carry out some meaningful act to prepare for what might possibly be their deaths. I don't care if it was prayer, meditation, or just getting drunk and playing Poker (The fact that the Poker table wasn't used in my game was HUGELY disappointing. I was expecting TNG esque Poker game here). It's not like Mass Effect 3 is saying "BELIEVE YE HEATHENS, OR FACE THE FIERY PITS OF HELL!"

I'm also not sure where human society in Mass Effect became "atheistic", but rather society was secular, and religion was more of a private matter (like how I'd consider it being in Western society). I remember the Cerberus News Net from ME2 had a number of references to religion, including, I believe, dealing with an election of a Pope.

[AtreiyaN7]

Like the saying goes: "There are no atheists in foxholes." Even if you don't believe (and I'm agnostic/atheistic), at a time like that, you might actually be inclined to use such expressions even if you don't particularly believe in a religion or a higher power.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 23 mars 2012 - 09:35 .

[Archontor]

Tyrzun wrote...

Archontor wrote...

In mass effect lore humanity and a few other species appear to be primarily athiestic, you can even join in when Ash asks of your religion in the first game.

What I found odd then is that at one point in the game Shep says "I'm sure wherever he is he's putting in a good word for us." I found that a bit odd but I went with it becaus it was poigninat scene and I was caught up in the loss of such a great character.

Then later Garrus makes his memorable 'bar in heaven referrence' even though nothing in the Turian religion suggests that they have a heaven and certainly rules out a god.

What I want to know is why they deicided to mess with the lore and take away an established choice about our Shepards?

You have zero ground to stand on based on lor.  So, your only point is... everyone in an entire race has to agree.  How dare they have characters with different beliefs?  And you are complaing about it.

Hmmm complaing about freedom of the individual to choose.  Where have I heard that before... Certainly not the champions of "liberty".

That being said the game should have remember how you answerd Ash's question so you wouldn't have to be offended.  However, considering new players to ME 2 and ME 3 most likely never played ME 1, I'm sure it was just an overslight as a result.  Judging how the ending "forgets" everything we did, I think your complaint is rather trivial compared to that, but it is still justified. 

I have presented evidnce from lore, ashly's speech, the codex and others have baught up animism's stance on the afterlife. Second I'm complaining that I couldn't choose (the option was something like he was a good freind) not that there was religion in game.  As for Garrus' quote i'm not saying the entire race has to be the same but If he's going to be different in such a profound way we should see it.

Also champions of liberty? we just don't beleive in a god that is our only unifying claim, I may care for freedom but not out of religious (or rather secular) reasons.

[Archontor]

Kanner wrote...

It seemed to be quite a sudden break with what had gone before, certainly.

Religion in Sci-fi always makes me a little uncomfortable. Beliefs now are very different to how they were two hundred years ago, trying to extrapolate - or insisting that things won't change a god damned bit - either way it's almost impossible to come up with something that feels totally right.

This. I don't mind religious disscussion or people beleiving within a game but the way it was presented seemed off to me.

[Roguekad]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

I'm an atheist but I still make references to heaven and hell and God and whatnot. Just because I stopped believing in the supernatural and deities it doesn't mean I have to stop using common colloquial expressions that everyone understands the meaning of.

Very true, but remember we're talking wartime here. In times of stress and despration those refrences go up and gain more fevor. I'm an atheist and once on a plane flying into Mexico we had BAD trouble not to far from the approach. I was praying to anything I could think of from God since he's the big general god, Anabus begging for my heart not to be devoured if I died and Athena since as a semi-serious martial artist/ student she'd have been the cloest to a personal deity if I had one.

[Archontor]

hardcoregmr wrote...

I recommend going back and playing ME2, there are numerous references to religion in the ME universe. Thane has an entire dialouge about Drell polythesism and Mordin says a prayer for the dead Krogan female in Maelon's death camp. Samara gives many references to the warrior monk ideal present in Eastern culture. And the Hanar believe that the protheans are Gods, they call them the Enkindlers. Religion still exist in a wide in varied form in the ME universe, Hell you have a squadmate whose name is derived from a direct quote of the christian bible. Dude, they give the full quote from the bible (Mark 5:9) "My name is Legion, for we are many!"

Someone hasn't been paying attention or are just looking for things to complain about. Eitherway, please be mindful that many in the video game media wish to paint the detractors of the ME3 endings as ignorant, complainers who are upset over nothing. Try not to help prove their point correct!

Yes but in all those examples those are other characters with their own beleifs (and I doubt Legion actually beleives in a god) I don't mind the presence of religion it's that my Shep had to get in on that espescially if I chose otherwise. Also Mordin seemed to lean towards more reincarnation based ideas so I doubt he could give anyone a good word.

[Baronesa]

Icesong wrote...

I liked being able to say I didn't believe in god or whatever in ME1, I didn't like being forced to talk about Heaven in ME3. All I'm saying.

^ This.. THIS!!! ^^^^


I think people are missing the point famously

The whole thing is the autodialogue asuming Shepard has some sort of belief, while on ME1 you could choose to have Shepard saying he/she has none.

The problem is not that character X is this or that religion... it is that from Mass Effect 1 when at least in one conversation you could define this aspect of the mai character, we move to autodialogue taking that decision from you.

Modifié par Baronesa, 23 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Nataladass]

there is war all over. people start beliving when facing death.

"there are no atheists in a crashing plane"

i'm an atheist too but i doubt I would be any different in this situation.

[tomcplotts]

Aesieru wrote...

tomcplotts wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

I also think it has to do with the whole end of the world thing. If people believe the end is coming, a lot of them tend to start thinking about that kind of thing more. Death, afterlife, what does it all mean, etc. when you're faced with impending death and loss of everything you know and love...

That's the "No Atheists in Foxholes" argument, which is kind of bull****.

But I can see Shepard just saying these things out of either habit or to comfort others.

I still don't know anyone who was in the military that when they were in severe harms way and thought they might die that didn't say a quick prayer out of hope.

well, now you can say you've met one. nice to meet ya!

And what harm were you nearly in and what your thoughts?

Specifics are my own, but as a professional soldier for ten years, I can tell you that all sorts wind up in those holes. You'll be surprised that just as many lose their faith after participating in war or slaughter. Mostly soldiers--especially professionals--are focusing on their mission and survival far too much to worry about theology.

[Ariq]

Kanner wrote...

It seemed to be quite a sudden break with what had gone before, certainly.

Really? There have been mild religious references in the two previous games. I'm not sure that Liara literally believes in the goddes, yet swears by her all the time. Mordin talks a great deal about exploring faiths in ME2.

Religion in Sci-fi always makes me a little uncomfortable. Beliefs now are very different to how they were two hundred years ago, trying to extrapolate - or insisting that things won't change a god damned bit - either way it's almost impossible to come up with something that feels totally right.

Which is true for any and every cultural institution. The military isn't the same as it was two hundred years ago either. Should sci-fi settings not have militaries? Sci-fi is always about exploring the possibilities and the ways in which culture will or could evolve. Religion is certainly part of that cultural evolution, and the weirder choice is to try to ignore it.

[fitzroy_doll]

Baronesa wrote...

Icesong wrote...

I liked being able to say I didn't believe in god or whatever in ME1, I didn't like being forced to talk about Heaven in ME3. All I'm saying.

^ This.. THIS!!! ^^^^


I think people are missing the point famously

The whole thing is the autodialogue asuming Shepard has some sort of belief, while on ME1 you could choose to have Shepard saying he/she has none.

The problem is not that character X is this or that religion... it is that from Mass Effect 1 when at least in one conversation you could define this aspect of the mai character, we move to autodialogue taking that decision from you.

^ This too. I agree 100%. This was not my Shep talking.

[Fixers0]

It's an easy principle in writing, when things are confusing or stop making sense, just throw religion in the story so the writers can wash their hands.

[DS_Abe]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I'm a stone cold atheist, and I still refer to "better places" and such, especially when in polite company... same reason I chose to indulge Kolyat in joining his final prayer for Thane... out of respect, as opposed to a literal belief.

My Shepard didn't join Kolyat.

Renegade all the way.

Aesieru wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

I
also think it has to do with the whole end of the world thing. If
people believe the end is coming, a lot of them tend to start thinking
about that kind of thing more. Death, afterlife, what does it all mean,
etc. when you're faced with impending death and loss of everything you
know and love...

That's the "No Atheists in Foxholes" argument, which is kind of bull****.

But I can see Shepard just saying these things out of either habit or to comfort others.

I
still don't know anyone who was in the military that when they were in
severe harms way and thought they might die that didn't say a quick
prayer out of hope.

Argument from lack of knowledge? Anecdotal argument at best.

I don't know anyone who was in the military that when they were in severe harms way (LOL DON'T KNOW ANYONE) and thought they might die that didn't sacrifice a small child out of hope.

Weird. Does that mean everyone in the military is a member of some strange cult with demons and ritual sacrifices?

Modifié par DS_Abe, 23 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[TheMerchantMan]

Garrus is the one who initiated the line right? Turians are stated to practice religions in canon, though they no longer have a faith to themselves. Seems like Garrus is the believer and Shepard if he is not (in my case he is) would just be indulging him. As you would with any other friend, I hope.

Likely because having Shepard respond with "Well Garrus, as much as I'd like to if we die we're just going to rot/be turned into Reaper slaves, but hey don't let that affect your morale buddy" would have ruined the mood.

[katamuro]

Turians from what i remember believe in spirits, like a unit has a spirit and a tree has one. So probably their afterlife involves crossing over and becoming a spirit. So its a perfectly valid moment. Why should Shepard be atheist? or of any faith. Maybe he believes in many. and insulting someone else's religious beliefs is not really worthy of a military commander who is trying to unite a galaxy.

[Archontor]

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Garrus is the one who initiated the line right? Turians are stated to practice religions in canon, though they no longer have a faith to themselves. Seems like Garrus is the believer and Shepard if he is not (in my case he is) would just be indulging him. As you would with any other friend, I hope.

Likely because having Shepard respond with "Well Garrus, as much as I'd like to if we die we're just going to rot/be turned into Reaper slaves, but hey don't let that affect your morale buddy" would have ruined the mood.

Well something along the lines of "Forget heaven the Normandy has it's own bar." would've sufficed I suppose.

[DS_Abe]

katamuro wrote...

Turians from what i remember believe in spirits, like a unit has a spirit and a tree has one. So probably their afterlife involves crossing over and becoming a spirit. So its a perfectly valid moment. Why should Shepard be atheist? or of any faith. Maybe he believes in many. and insulting someone else's religious beliefs is not really worthy of a military commander who is trying to unite a galaxy.

He's an atheist because I chose to play him like that in ME1. He proclaimed himself atheist by my choice, and that's how I wanted him to play.

And if I played Renegade, I have every right in the world to say "Stop with your superstitious nonsense, and focus on things at hand".

[CasbynessPC]

Well think about it, if there was no real after life, no God etc, then everything was just temporary mistakes or self-created rules anyway. Importance of organic life, chance to determine their own faith would just be made up constructs, importance of any life in general would all just be constructs. There is really no 'saving' the galaxy. It would also just be a made up construct.

So maybe someone at Bioware who was deep in to philosophy and stuff decided to include such things to make sure the story was not a complete sham.

Yellow alert. Yellow alert. All ships, yellow alert.

[Samzo77]

I was at a writers convention and heard a panel on religion in science fiction, and I had to agree with Gene Wolfe's comments. He said that religion is not something that will go away, no matter how science progresses. People will always have beliefs, and many people don't realize that their decision to not have a faith is a faith in its own.
I thought all of the statements throughout the game were contextually relevant to the story, and most could be considered common phrases, or politeness on your characters part.

[DS_Abe]

Samzo77 wrote...

I was at a writers convention and heard a panel on religion in science fiction, and I had to agree with Gene Wolfe's comments. He said that religion is not something that will go away, no matter how science progresses. People will always have beliefs, and many people don't realize that their decision to not have a faith is a faith in its own.
I thought all of the statements throughout the game were contextually relevant to the story, and most could be considered common phrases, or politeness on your characters part.

Politeness + Renegade = not Renegade.