259 réponses à ce sujet

[Wiggly]

Religion is an interesting when considering indoctrination theories, powerful crowd control and a means for primitive man to understand otherwise non-understandable events, I liked Jarvik's analouge to the Ancient Astronaut theory

[MakeMineMako]

legion999 wrote...

I can't see this thread ending well...

Aside from the Asari and Hanar (who both worship Protheans though some don't know it) what widespread religions are there? We have the Drell's religion, the Turians have something to do with spirits and I'm sure Buddhism is mentioned.

I believe that Zen Buddhism and Confucianism has been adopted by more than a few Turians, in addition to native beliefs.

The Volus appear to have established religion, or philosophical equivalent, with some references to a "Great Wind".

Religion still exists among Salarians. And the Krogan put some stock in an afterlife (The Void) and epic traditions that border on religious.  Alot of influence from the old ancestor worship once practiced is present among Quarians, and hope for a return to the homeworld was borderline religious ("Keelah se'lai").

With all of this apparent spirituality in the galaxy, and the dedication of some cultures for religious freedom (Salarians and Turians), I find it hard to believe that Humanity has gone completely secular or atheistic in the Mass Effect universe.

Organized religions that exist today have endured for millenia and are likely to endure for millenia into the future. Considering that Earth is still divided into nation-states in Mass Effect, with diverse cultures right on, it makes sense that religion would continue to shape people's lives.

[TheShadowWolf911]

ryuasiu wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

I was wondering the same, I clearly remember telling Ash on ME1 that I didn't believe in god...

I read the prayer for Thane out of respect, as I do in real life when I have to attend a religious ceremony, but the auto dialogue assuming your Shepard HAS to believe in something was a bit bothersome.

Same in Dragon Age 2... I remember clearly in Dragon Age my Warden was very firm in her atheism, but I didn't even had that choice on Dragon Age 2, and auto dialogue of Hawke many times made references to the maker.


To each their own, I guess... but those options are really missed.

And to ninjanumber1. I strongly disagree with your statement

As someone that does believe in a higher power I do think there should have been more options for those that dont believe. I dont hate atheists, penn and teller are atheists and I will allways love those guys:lol: But then again I am one of those silly people that believe in loving and respecting your fellow man no matter who or what they are and treating them like faimly.

same on top of having a very....different, view on the bible personally (which i will NOT share is it will possibly spark fighting.......which i would rather avoid)

[Warhawk7137]

Every time a religious discussion in video games comes up I'm reminded of the song Baba Yetu from the Civilization 4 menu (which recently won a grammy, by the way). Great song. Incidentally, the lyrics are the Lord's Prayer in Swahili. Most atheists were fine with hit, but quite a few that I've seen on the internet went from absolutely loving the song before they read the translation of the lyrics, to thinking it's insidious and evil and hating it, even though if they hadn't read the translation, it's not like it would have affected their views on religion at all.

[Tyrzun]

Archontor wrote...

In mass effect lore humanity and a few other species appear to be primarily athiestic, you can even join in when Ash asks of your religion in the first game.

What I found odd then is that at one point in the game Shep says "I'm sure wherever he is he's putting in a good word for us." I found that a bit odd but I went with it becaus it was poigninat scene and I was caught up in the loss of such a great character.

Then later Garrus makes his memorable 'bar in heaven referrence' even though nothing in the Turian religion suggests that they have a heaven and certainly rules out a god.

What I want to know is why they deicided to mess with the lore and take away an established choice about our Shepards?

You have zero ground to stand on based on lor.  So, your only point is... everyone in an entire race has to agree.  How dare they have characters with different beliefs?  And you are complaing about it.

Hmmm complaing about freedom of the individual to choose.  Where have I heard that before... Certainly not the champions of "liberty".

That being said the game should have remember how you answerd Ash's question so you wouldn't have to be offended.  However, considering new players to ME 2 and ME 3 most likely never played ME 1, I'm sure it was just an overslight as a result.  Judging how the ending "forgets" everything we did, I think your complaint is rather trivial compared to that, but it is still justified. 

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[Terminus Echoes]

I'm a Christian. A Catholic at that. Yet I have many atheist friends who say "Oh my god" and make references to heaven and hell. They also celebrate Christmas, which is a bit annoying to me, but whatever. The point is that making references to other religions doesn't mean you follow them. Shepard can take part in a prayer for Thane, and I doubt he's a follower of whatever religion that is.

[Wiggly]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I'm a Christian. A Catholic at that. Yet I have many atheist friends who say "Oh my god" and make references to heaven and hell. They also celebrate Christmas, which is a bit annoying to me, but whatever. The point is that making references to other religions doesn't mean you follow them. Shepard can take part in a prayer for Thane, and I doubt he's a follower of whatever religion that is.

I think many of the atheists that celebrate christmast don't want to, but feel they have to because it's expected of them as a social event and not mainly a religous event, that's what happenes when you get spoonfed something from birth, it's easier to just follow the flow than to make a big scene to break the mold.

[Warhawk7137]

Wiggly wrote...

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I'm a Christian. A Catholic at that. Yet I have many atheist friends who say "Oh my god" and make references to heaven and hell. They also celebrate Christmas, which is a bit annoying to me, but whatever. The point is that making references to other religions doesn't mean you follow them. Shepard can take part in a prayer for Thane, and I doubt he's a follower of whatever religion that is.

I think many of the atheists that celebrate christmast don't want to, but feel they have to because it's expected of them as a social event and not mainly a religous event, that's what happenes when you get spoonfed something from birth, it's easier to just follow the flow than to make a big scene to break the mold.

Bah, who cares, it's a holiday.

Considering some of the flimsy excuses for other holidays people celebrate (Valentine's Day, anyone?), at least Christmas has some fun traditions, whether or not you're Christian.

Not saying you have to go to Church or set up a nativity scene or anything, but if you're actively against putting up a Christmas tree and giving people gifts and cooking a nice delicious ham, it doesn't mean you're taking a stance against the evils of religion, it just means your'e kind of a buzzkill.

[Psychlonus]

Studies show that 10% or more of the world's population has at least 1 life experience that they can describe as "non-physical". You can try to tell them that it was an hallucination or a delusion, and they will tell you that they know the difference and that said experience was just as real or more real than what you call real. There's no reason to think that people haven't been having these experiences since day 1 of human existence. Spiritual belief systems are an automatic part of human society and when trustworthy people related their experiences, people listened.

If you are someone who isn't part of the 10%, you can dismiss it all; but when I see people discuss religion and "religion-free" future scenarios, this is a part of the equation that is routinely left out of the discussion.

[shadey]

well I thought it was pretty obvious even from the first game the whole issue of the reapers being these immortal like beings there was going to be some religious references.

[Kanner]

It seemed to be quite a sudden break with what had gone before, certainly.

Religion in Sci-fi always makes me a little uncomfortable. Beliefs now are very different to how they were two hundred years ago, trying to extrapolate - or insisting that things won't change a god damned bit - either way it's almost impossible to come up with something that feels totally right.

[Warhawk7137]

shadey wrote...

well I thought it was pretty obvious even from the first game the whole issue of the reapers being these immortal like beings there was going to be some religious references.

I suppose coming face-to-face with a Lovecraftian horror might spur one to consider whether there might be a powerful and immortal being out there that doesn't want to rip your face off.  

[Giantdeathrobot]

Ah yes, respect for other people's beliefs. Some people (not OP) seem to dismiss that claim.

Also, why not talk about religion? As Ashley says, it's not like faith is going anywhere now that humans are in space. Hell, we have gone in space ourselves. Didn't change much to faith around the world. It's not like the subject is a constant theme in the series anyhow.

Well, unless you involve the god-child into the discussion. Then it's a whole other can of worms.

[VoraciousBeaver]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

I'm a Christian. A Catholic at that. Yet I have many atheist friends who say "Oh my god" and make references to heaven and hell. They also celebrate Christmas, which is a bit annoying to me, but whatever. The point is that making references to other religions doesn't mean you follow them. Shepard can take part in a prayer for Thane, and I doubt he's a follower of whatever religion that is.

I celebrate it because I see it as nothing more than what it is--a holiday. Why not accept the excuse to be off from work/school and spend time with family?

[theflyingzamboni]

Johnnycide wrote...

I wondered about that too, I was thinking maybe it'd come up in a dialogue like, "Don't you remember I don't believe in God?" But then again that whole conversation was with Ash, and maybe Garrus didn't eavesdrop.

Failing that, dying once and then coming back probably made Shepard re-evaluate their stance on religion.

Can't remember if it was 2 or 3, but doesn't Shepard respond to someone by saying he remembered the Normandy blowing up, and then... nothing, until he came to in Cerberus' lab? I'd think that would make him more inclined to disbelieve in deities and afterlife. I just assumed my atheist Shepards just say that stuff casually just as a hopeful, conversational kind of thing, not actually meaning it literally. Banter.

[Warhawk7137]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Also, why not talk about religion? As Ashley says, it's not like faith is going anywhere now that humans are in space. Hell, we have gone in space ourselves. Didn't change much to faith around the world. It's not like the subject is a constant theme in the series anyhow.

Well, except for the time the U.S. Government got sued because the astronauts on Apollo 8 read from Genesis. 

[Warhawk7137]

Led Guardian wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

I wondered about that too, I was thinking maybe it'd come up in a dialogue like, "Don't you remember I don't believe in God?" But then again that whole conversation was with Ash, and maybe Garrus didn't eavesdrop.

Failing that, dying once and then coming back probably made Shepard re-evaluate their stance on religion.

Can't remember if it was 2 or 3, but doesn't Shepard respond to someone by saying he remembered the Normandy blowing up, and then... nothing, until he came to in Cerberus' lab? I'd think that would make him more inclined to disbelieve in deities and afterlife. I just assumed my atheist Shepards just say that stuff casually just as a hopeful, conversational kind of thing, not actually meaning it literally. Banter.

I got the distinct impression that BioWare was basically dodging the issue on that, since "what happened after you died?" is kind of the logical question that people would ask.

[Icesong]

I liked being able to say I didn't believe in god or whatever in ME1, I didn't like being forced to talk about Heaven in ME3. All I'm saying.

[Kloborgg711]

knightnblu wrote...

When you find an atheist in a foxhole, let me know.

I won't respond further to avoid any sort of unwarranted debate, but I feel a responsibility to combat this kind of nonsense. As one of countless examples, Christopher Hitchens recently faced imminent death as a result of a terminal cancer. To his very last days he never spent a moment in uncertainty about what he faced. That is not a result of courage, it's a result of a lifetime of debate and education on the subject. To many atheists, the idea of God is more than a little far fetched, so regardless of how scared one may be, there will always be atheists in foxholes.

[LoneSpartan08]

There's a pretty easy answer to this. In the darkest part of your life, even if you don't believe in God, do you not hope and look for any comfort you can find? A lot of people turn to God because they don't know what else to do. I think maybe it was to signify the pressure and stress being put on our heroes, they revert back to religion to find comfort in the face war. This particular war being the most brutal and horrific seen in the ME universe. Imagine your entire family/race being destroyed and brutally augmented, wouldn't you want to believe they went to a better place? That you will see them again?

Just my thoughts, doubt anyone will read all that though.

[Tocquevillain]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

I also think it has to do with the whole end of the world thing. If people believe the end is coming, a lot of them tend to start thinking about that kind of thing more. Death, afterlife, what does it all mean, etc. when you're faced with impending death and loss of everything you know and love...

That's the "No Atheists in Foxholes" argument, which is kind of bull****.

But I can see Shepard just saying these things out of either habit or to comfort others.

Note I said "think about", not "start believing in." If world war 3 started, and everyone knew that the world would probably end soon in a nuclear holocaust, I know I would at least start "thinking" about death, and "is there anything more", etc.

Still, that's a "No Atheists in Foxholes" argument which is actually pretty goddamn offensive.

No, it's not, because it's only in reference to these specific characters, no one in game is making a general statement that everyone believes there are no atheists in foxholes.

[s.nebulous]

There are lots of atheists in the military, and in foxholes.

Still, I have no problem with religion in the game, Thane’s death, so far for me, was the most moving part of ME3. I teared up a little when his son said the prayer was for Shepard.

I role-play my Shepard as agnostic, so the few lines she says about the afterlife don’t break my immersion.

[Straw_foot]

 I think it was more about human coping mechanisms than making Shep religious.

Modifié par Straw_foot, 23 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[jaze89]

My religious preference is irrelevant, although if you wish to know, just ask. However, over the past few years I'm starting to get annoyed with many atheists lately for how offensive they can be (I don't want to generalize and there are many atheists who I'm friends with, related to, get along with, and enjoy their company). The problem that I see is just the same as with religious people (again don't want to generalize) in that they are so adamant about their belief or non-belief if that's what you'd prefer that they talk down to others or use certain rhetoric that is condescending (i.e. the assumption that if you believe in a deity you must not be educated or that if you don't believe you're nihilistic and a coward). Maybe it's more of a problem with people than it is with any one religion or lack-of-beliefs, but I really get annoyed with the existential condescension.

I do want to give credit to the people who are respectful of other people's beliefs/non-beliefs. I wish everyone would just be respectful and at least have the forethought not to use certain rhetoric that is blatantly offensive.

EVERYONE

EDIT: I'd like to add that the reason I pointed out atheists was because I've been noticing the condescension a heck of a lot more than the other side recently. I by no means mean to pick sides. /flameshield

Modifié par jaze89, 23 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[movieguyabw]

I think the issue is that we just don't have that many options for what Shepard says, plain and simple. Would love a dialog option where Shepard can say "Hey, Garrus, you know I don't believe in heaven" or something, same as I would love more dialogue options in general in this game, to establish what my character thinks and why they act the way they do.

Because I'm pretty sure that Garrus was just attempting to appeal to a human religion, for Shepard's sake. Having the chance to either embrace the concept of religion, or brushing it aside would've been a cool little dialogue here at the end, I feel.

Not a huge issue, though.