203 réponses à ce sujet

[Dridengx]

slyguy200 wrote...

Sales is a failed plan at making the pro-enders seem like a majority.

You mean like you trying to claim 44k people is a MAJORITY of over 1.6 million plus? lol

[bleachorange]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

i'm not saying majority or minority here. never have. BUT - I think it's easy enough to assume a great many people care about this issue.

LOOK HERE
60,000 out of 66,000 people didn't like the ending and want a better one
according a poll. Also, this is by far and away the most responded poll
on BSN(think about it - this poll beats out every other poll on BSN by
at least 50,000 total votes), the next two largest also have statistics
showing the majority prefer new endings. This means, regardless of WHERE
the poll is located, the trend is Bioware has ticked off SO MANY MORE
PEOPLE THAN IT EVER HAS BEFORE by at least 500%, on it's own FAN WEBSITE
where people who LIKE their games come to play.

There is at least a 500% increase in the traffic on that poll
versus any other poll on BSN, AND 91% of them say the ending needs
improvement. If you owned a business and increased your customer base by
500% (50 becomes 250, 1k becomes 5k, etc.) do you think that is
statistically irrelevant?

Note, the point I'm trying to make
isn't that such a percent liked/did not. It's that 5 times as many
people took the trouble to vote on this poll than any previous one,
BECAUSE IT MATTERS TO THEM.

[Rafe34]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

No, it's not math. It's sheer idiocy. You obviously have no clue how polls work. I guess we should stop looking at Gallup and everything. Clearly you should send them a letter detailing your wonderful discovery on how they need to poll 51% of Americans in order to know what the majority of Americans think.

Your logic is stupid and going by that logic, all reviews of all games everywhere are worthless since I will guarantee you we never had a majority of people actually give their answer. It's 90 to 10 against, dude. The real numbers may be more like 75-25 against, but it sure as hell isn't a majority the other way.

[Dridengx]

Regardless how dense you are, BIOWARE is what matters here right? Bioware's founder called you a Minority.. there is it. let it sink in.. let it burn

[Ianamus]

Dridengx wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

congrats lurkers on finally being active as part of the community. rather unfortunate that it took all this mess to get you to post but it is what it is. Opinions are shared, and you are not lesser than any of us so don't hold back. Some of us knew there is people or both sides lurking but the number is insignificant to make a difference least here on BSN.

I would imagine people are still playing, busy with life, or just don't feel like being trolled. As for the OP claiming because of lurkers they are not a 'minority' I laugh. There is not enough people or any proof you have 500k lurkers on your side, sorry you can't prove it and four or five typing here isn't enough to overturn minority

Who is minority according to you?

I go by what everyone else in the industry goes by. Sales. It's the only facts we have. Polls can be cheated. I see total sales, and total members of the Retake Movement.. compare those numbers and you see, your movement is a minority of vocals.

Don't get upset with me over this, even Bioware is saying it. I really don't care one way or the other to be honest what percentage you are, but facts are facts. Your side seems to think BSN forum controls or how many threads you make, or polls you win makes you a majority but, if you look closely its the same people on your side spamming, like its the same people against you arguing.

BSN isn't the end all be all in this matter.

Your missing the point entirely. Yes, in terms of the whole player base of ME3 the people on these forums who want the endings changed are a minority- but the people on these forums who are happy with the endings is an even smaller minority. 

What matters is who liked the endings and who didn't, and we have no way of knowing what percetange of the entire playerbase fall in each category, but going by the polls here and on other sites it does appear that a lot of people aren't happy with the endings. Whether or not they are the majority is impossible to know unless all people who bought ME3 filled out a survey. 

Modifié par EJ107, 22 mars 2012 - 11:22 .

[Enraged Chicken]

Calling out to the "non-vocal minority" are we?
This is my 3rd or 4rth post since I signed up, and I just gotta say that I was disapointed at the end of ME3.  I felt that the rest of the game was well written and thought out, but the ending was (in comparison at least) a real hash job.

[kbct]

Enraged Chicken wrote...

Calling out to the "non-vocal minority" are we?
This is my 3rd or 4rth post since I signed up, and I just gotta say that I was disapointed at the end of ME3.  I felt that the rest of the game was well written and thought out, but the ending was (in comparison at least) a real hash job.

Thanks. Keep posting, guys. Yes, this thread is a battleground now as you can see, but just make one quick post.

[Rafe34]

Dridengx wrote...

Regardless how dense you are, BIOWARE is what matters here right? Bioware's founder called you a Minority.. there is it. let it sink in.. let it burn

No, Bioware is not what matters. Of course they called us a vocal minority, they're trying to downplay it. Just because Bioware says something, doesn't make it true. Dear god, do you just swallow everything that comes out of their PR department as true? On second thought, that would explain a lot.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Shinobu wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

By that logic, the people supporting the endings are an even smaller minority. A much smaller minority.

Uh, okay? Nice to see you agree with me, because I've never once tried to say we're a majority? Sorry, *I* am not arrogant enough to try and speak for 750,001 other people just because I did like the ending.

[avatar2396]

it is a vocal minority but its a pretty significant number. I think most people that have a problem with that is when someone uses it as a derogatory term.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

No, it's not math. It's sheer idiocy. You obviously have no clue how polls work. I guess we should stop looking at Gallup and everything. Clearly you should send them a letter detailing your wonderful discovery on how they need to poll 51% of Americans in order to know what the majority of Americans think.

Your logic is stupid and going by that logic, all reviews of all games everywhere are worthless since I will guarantee you we never had a majority of people actually give their answer. It's 90 to 10 against, dude. The real numbers may be more like 75-25 against, but it sure as hell isn't a majority the other way.

Aw, and we were getting along so well.

First off, I know how polls work. And a internet poll where you're required to sign up to be able to vote, that allows multiple voting, that is advertised as "Come vote on how much you hate the endings", and that draws from a select group of people who are passionate enough to actually bother in the first place... is not, in any way, under any circumstances, a valid poll.

If BioWare does a poll where they email questions to an actual random sample of registered owners, we can sit down and discuss those results because they're actually relevant.

But other than that, uh, good job?

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill math. 

[bleachorange]

Dridengx wrote...

Regardless how dense you are, BIOWARE is what matters here right? Bioware's founder called you a Minority.. there is it. let it sink in.. let it burn

He called us a minority in an effort to SAVE FACE. That's right. And yet he trys to quote critics about 75% perfect scores in an apology letter TO THE FANS.

yeah, tell the people the critics said it was good while you are also telling us we are right. you can't say the game is perfect if you're APOLOGIZING FOR IT.

*snort*

it's so dumb.

[Rafe34]

If every poll that has ever been done on the issue has the people that dislike the endings at greater than 85%, then how do you KNOW we are a vocal minority? All the evidence points the other way. That is my point.

[darkshadow136]

bleachorange wrote...

"75 out of 90 critics gave the game a perfect score", according to Mr. Ray.

:wizard:Spaaaaaace MAGIC!!!

Yeah and Forbes already exposing that the Pro gaming reviews like IGN and Gamespot are Bias in their recent articles. Pointing out that big gma edevelopers put pressure on reviewers that they spend a lot of advertising dollars with to give a highly favorable review. Then in in some cases if the reviewer doesn't tow the company line and gives a honest review they are fired.

[AvaCousland]

Hi all - I also am a forum lurker and support the Retake movement.

[justlogme]

Erixxxx wrote...

I am KROGAN wrote...

Hi, I enjoy lurking very much, it suits me.

Also, I agree, general sentiments seem to be that the ending is bad. I seem to see the same 5-6 people arguing in favor of the endings during my lurking.

And there's a lot more lurking, afraid to speak up because every word they post will be turned and twisted within minutes. I honestly don't blame them for staying away from this forum.

   Maybe there just afraid that those that like the ending will be insulting and say they are nothing but a bunch of Whiney self-entitled kids that are a minority and ruining gaming as we know that should STFU and GTFH as most of those that like the endings repeat over and over.
    I mean who reallys to have that yelled at them for voicing their opinions?

[Rafe34]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Aw, and we were getting along so well.

First off, I know how polls work. And a internet poll where you're required to sign up to be able to vote, that allows multiple voting, that is advertised as "Come vote on how much you hate the endings", and that draws from a select group of people who are passionate enough to actually bother in the first place... is not, in any way, under any circumstances, a valid poll.

If BioWare does a poll where they email questions to an actual random sample of registered owners, we can sit down and discuss those results because they're actually relevant.

But other than that, uh, good job?

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill math. 

Every poll, even the ones on IGN, Gamespot, Forbes, etc., where you don't have to sign up to vote, shows that people don't like the endings, and they're all extremely lopsided. The closest one I saw was on IGN which was 85 to 15 I think. 

The poll is not advertised as that, either. But then, if you bothered to actually research anything, you'd know that.

Every poll we have suggests the vast majority of people disliked BW's ending to ME3. Until you present a single poll, just one, suggesting otherwise then you cannot claim we are a vocal minority.

You cannot *know* that. All evidence suggests the opposite is true. No matter where the poll is taken, if you have 66k people voting on your product- on their own damn forums- and 91% believe the endings are crap? You have a problem. Even if you don't think it's a vocal minority, you still have a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Modifié par Rafe34, 22 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[bleachorange]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill math. 

And yet you ignore my post, that has valid math and statistics? lol, what a colin moriarty you are.

here, in case you missed it:

60,000 out of 66,000 people didn't like the ending and want a better one
according a poll. Also, this is by far and away the most responded poll
on BSN(think about it - this poll beats out every other poll on BSN by
at least 50,000 total votes), the next two largest also have statistics
showing the majority prefer new endings. This means, regardless of WHERE
the poll is located, the trend is Bioware has ticked off SO MANY MORE
PEOPLE THAN IT EVER HAS BEFORE by at least 500%, on it's own FAN WEBSITE
where people who LIKE their games come to play.

There is at least a 500% increase in the traffic on that poll
versus any other poll on BSN, AND 91% of them say the ending needs
improvement. If you owned a business and increased your customer base by
500% (50 becomes 250, 1k becomes 5k, etc.) do you think that is
statistically irrelevant?

5 times as many
people took the trouble to vote on this poll than any previous one,
BECAUSE IT MATTERS TO THEM.

Modifié par bleachorange, 22 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[Ianamus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

That's not how the maths, or rather the statistics works. And I know, because I've been studying statistics for awhile now. 

If you had to have that many people complain to "prove it" then no piece of marketing, nothing could ever use the words "majority" or "minority", becuase it would be impossible to ever prove. 

That's why people use samples, and extrapolate from them. While the poll might be biassed it has a huge sample size, which definitely works in it's favor. And I can assure you that any statistical tests on that data would "prove" that people unhappy with the endings are a majority. 

Of course due to it being on these forums and such it can't be taken exactly, but considering the huge sample size and the fact that it's been posted everywhere on the internet I'd say it's a reasonable reflection of these forums at least, if not a large portion of the playerbase (many people who don't use the forums reguarly must have voted on it- I don't see 60'000 posters here). 

Modifié par EJ107, 22 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Dridengx]

Rafe34 wrote...

If every poll that has ever been done on the issue has the people that dislike the endings at greater than 85%, then how do you KNOW we are a vocal minority? All the evidence points the other way. That is my point.

How do you know? simple. Want to know how? See the total poll results and how many voted in the poll which is usually at 40k to 60k people (ofcourse these numbers are slightly off and vary per poll) but the numbers are never really high. YOu could win polls of 10 people or 60k people regardless those polls are a fraction of total sales. Your evidence is solid SALES vs Whiners. you can't get more clear than that.

If you still don't see it I'm losing hope for humanity's competence lol No wonder you guys need a clearer ending, ME3's ending is beyond your means of understanding

Modifié par Dridengx, 22 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[N7.Engineer]

I've never been apart of any type of internet forum before. Sadly it took the ending of Mass Effect 3 to motivate me to finally join one.

*First post ever*

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rafe34 wrote...

If every poll that has ever been done on the issue has the people that dislike the endings at greater than 85%, then how do you KNOW we are a vocal minority? All the evidence points the other way. That is my point.

Because every poll that has ever been done on the issue is drawing from the same tainted sample:

Mass Effect 3 owners who are registered at video game website and who actually care enough to vote.

If I went to a Superman forum and said "Hey guys, I have a poll, how much would Superman kick that dude from DBZ's ass?" and 99% of people voted "SO FKING MUCH" it doesn't mean that 99% of people in the world think Superman would DBZ guy's ass. It means 99% of posters at this Superman forum who cared enough to vote, and were already told HOW to vote, thought that Superman would kick DBZ dude's ass SO MUCH.

Let me put it thusly: Are you a majority on THIS board? Yes. Absolutely. You are. Congratulations.

Are you a majority of EVERY ME3 owner? No. You are still a vocal minority. Sorry.

[blue water]

I'll be honest. I've read, but never posted before. Whew! Now that I've been outed I feel somehow lighter. I replayed ME1 and ME2 several times. I tweaked my Shepard, experimented with choices. I knew it wouldn't change the grand finales (beat soveriegn/collectors), but it would affect the characters and species I'd encountered. It was great. The ending to ME3 leaves me with zero desire to replay it, or any DLCs. Unless Bioware has a surprise coming, what's the point. If I just want to shoot things, there are other games available. Games that don't inspire an emotional investment. The ending to ME3 was like buying tickets to the Stanely Cup and getting the Ice Capades instead. Nothing wrong with the Ice Capades, but I'd like to know how the Wings did;).

One last thing. ME3 did get me to play multiplayer for the first time. I CARED that much. I won't claim to have done everything in single player, but if I missed anything it wasn't for lack of trying. In the end, I had a TMS and EMS of 7020. I'd appreciate someone pointing me to link showing how you could get an EMS in the 4000/5000 range without multiplayer.

Thanks.