203 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The majority: People who just don't care enough to care about internet fking drama.
A minority: People who vocally hate the endings and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
A smaller minority: People who vocally enjoy the endings, and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
An even smaller minority: People who hate pie.

How is that, in ANY way, arguable?

Because you assume that that majority likes the endings. You and Colin Moriarty both assume that you are the majority, when in fact, you have zero evidence that suggests this is the case.

NO I DON'T. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. I HAVE SAID, QUITE CLEARLY, THAT THOSE WHO LIKE THE ENDINGS ARE IN THE MINORITY, ESPECIALLY HERE ON BSN.

God. DAMN.

I've said, QUITE CLEARLY, that the majority is those who simply don't CARE.

I'm not ANYWHERE close to claiming to be in the majority. I've never said that. I'll never say that, unless and until I get ACTUAL evidence to back that up. 

What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY. 

If you decide to go from "we're the majority" to "we're the majority of people who care enough to vote and post here on BSN and other websites" then fine, I won't argue that. But claiming to be "THE majority" is dishonest and deceitful, so stop it.

[Rafe34]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The majority: People who just don't care enough to care about internet fking drama.
A minority: People who vocally hate the endings and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
A smaller minority: People who vocally enjoy the endings, and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
An even smaller minority: People who hate pie.

How is that, in ANY way, arguable?

Because you assume that that majority likes the endings. You and Colin Moriarty both assume that you are the majority, when in fact, you have zero evidence that suggests this is the case.

NO I DON'T. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. I HAVE SAID, QUITE CLEARLY, THAT THOSE WHO LIKE THE ENDINGS ARE IN THE MINORITY, ESPECIALLY HERE ON BSN.

God. DAMN.

I've said, QUITE CLEARLY, that the majority is those who simply don't CARE.

I'm not ANYWHERE close to claiming to be in the majority. I've never said that. I'll never say that, unless and until I get ACTUAL evidence to back that up. 

What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY. 

If you decide to go from "we're the majority" to "we're the majority of people who care enough to vote and post here on BSN and other websites" then fine, I won't argue that. But claiming to be "THE majority" is dishonest and deceitful, so stop it.

No, we're not a minority. Again, you don't get how polls work. A minority of people may be polled, but that doesn't mean their views aren't representative of the majority. Saying that its just a minority of people that gave their opinion is dumb, means nothing, and everyone knows it. That's how polls work, bud. You can't actually poll 51% of all people in the country every time you want to get an idea how the people feel about something. Doesn't mean you just throw out the poll's results.

What is being dishonest and deceitful is applying the term "vocal minority" to someone who dislikes the ending, when all evidence suggests its the majority that doesn't like the ending. One poll that says otherwise. Uno. Otherwise, using the term minority to refer to people that dislike the endings is what is dishonest.

Modifié par Rafe34, 22 mars 2012 - 11:56 .

[xScarecrowX]

I'm normally a lurker, but for the past few weeks, after playing the ending of ME3, I have become more vocal. I hope that Bioware notices just how many people really do not like the ending.

[Father_Jerusalem]

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I was a lurker for years who finally got fed up with all the accusations that I can't like the ending with being some kind of stupid, ignorant noob who should just go back to Call of Duty because I don't "get it".

I'm sure there are more out there just like that too.

Anyway. 1.5 million copies sold, as a conservative estimate. 750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math.

That's not how the maths, or rather the statistics works. And I know, because I've been studying statistics for awhile now. 

If you had to have that many people complain to "prove it" then no piece of marketing, nothing could ever use the words "majority" or "minority", becuase it would be impossible to ever prove. 

That's why people use samples, and extrapolate from them. While the poll might be biassed it has a huge sample size, which definitely works in it's favor. And I can assure you that any statistical tests on that data would "prove" that people unhappy with the endings are a majority. 

Of course due to it being on these forums and such it can't be taken exactly, but considering the huge sample size and the fact that it's been posted everywhere on the internet I'd say it's a reasonable reflection of these forums at least, if not a large portion of the playerbase (many people who don't use the forums reguarly must have voted on it- I don't see 60'000 posters here). 

You. Cannot. Use. That poll. To. Back. Up. Your. Movement.

You can't. It is in NO WAY anywhere close to scientifically accurate. Good god.

1. It allowed multiple votes. That, right there, regardless of EVERYTHING else, disqualifies it.
2. It was advertised on websites and in links as "Come tell us how much you hated the ending". That, right there, regardless of EVERYTHING else, disqualifies it.
3. It draws from a self-selecting sample with no randomness to it at all. That, right there, regardless of EVERYTHING else, disqualifies it.

Flat out. This poll is USELESS.

I agree that the poll is generally useless proving anything as a whole (It has a large sample size but like I said, very biassed) but you specifically said:

"750,001 unique complaints are what's needed to prove a majority, otherwise you will remain a vocal minority. Sorry, it's not me, it's math. "

And this is completely false. A randomly selected poll of several thousand that questions players of Mass Effect 3 at random on the game itself would be able to provide a proper statistical answer. So no, 700'000 complains aren't needed to prove a majority. 

Okay, that was me being snarky. I apologize for that. I simply get sick and tired of seeing that poll be trotted out as if it's the be all and end all when it means literally less than nothing. 

Unless and until BioWare releases and ACTUAL survey with a random sample pool and releases that information.

[bleachorange]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

Spock says: If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

Modifié par bleachorange, 22 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The majority: People who just don't care enough to care about internet fking drama.
A minority: People who vocally hate the endings and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
A smaller minority: People who vocally enjoy the endings, and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
An even smaller minority: People who hate pie.

How is that, in ANY way, arguable?

Because you assume that that majority likes the endings. You and Colin Moriarty both assume that you are the majority, when in fact, you have zero evidence that suggests this is the case.

NO I DON'T. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. I HAVE SAID, QUITE CLEARLY, THAT THOSE WHO LIKE THE ENDINGS ARE IN THE MINORITY, ESPECIALLY HERE ON BSN.

God. DAMN.

I've said, QUITE CLEARLY, that the majority is those who simply don't CARE.

I'm not ANYWHERE close to claiming to be in the majority. I've never said that. I'll never say that, unless and until I get ACTUAL evidence to back that up. 

What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY. 

If you decide to go from "we're the majority" to "we're the majority of people who care enough to vote and post here on BSN and other websites" then fine, I won't argue that. But claiming to be "THE majority" is dishonest and deceitful, so stop it.

No, what is being dishonest and deceitful is applying the term "vocal minority" to someone who dislikes the ending, when all evidence suggests its the majority that doesn't like the ending.

....

Oh Jesus H. I can't get through to you and make you understand how facts work, I just can't. I'm not even going to bother trying anymore.

[XqctaX]

all polls and all threads i read have shown me something. 90 of all i read are people that didnt like the endings. ive seen about 10 people that more or less seem to be trolling on both sides.
but if i think about it. the real trolls are those that are on the" we like the ending" side.
that is my opinion after reading pretty much EVERYTHING sine i finnished the game about a week back.. if you want pure clarity. just ask bioware themself open one single poll with one Q, did you like the ending. yes? no? and watch what happends.

everything else is speculation. but with one fact. those dissapointed seems to be vastly outnumbering those few that liked the ending, read thrue any thread and that is very easy to see and any rethoric to try and dissprove that is nothing but rethoric. period

[Father_Jerusalem]

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

[XqctaX]

on a side not. beeing silent is a form of agreeing.
beeing silent on a forum were it seems 90% + hates the endings = a form of agreeing with that opinion.

[bleachorange]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

The answer is simple. those who care enough to be return customers will answer these polls you say have no bearing. therefore, they are relevant, if not statistically correct. That is the driving concern of the business. And you can't count those who don't vote. sorry, that's how it works in america.

Modifié par bleachorange, 23 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[GoddessLunatic]

Laurscar wrote...

I don't really want to get into this, but honestly, I don't think vocal minority/silent majority matters. The fact that there are so many posts about this and that Bioware themselves have decided to address the issue has got to mean something. I mean if people want new endings, then why not? So long as the people who like the original endings can still get what they want.

Thank you, sense-talking person. <3

[Rafe34]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

....

Oh Jesus H. I can't get through to you and make you understand how facts work, I just can't. I'm not even going to bother trying anymore.

I get what you're saying. It's just as dumb as saying the sky is blue. Of course it's a minority of people that answered the poll, that's how they freaking work.

[Father_Jerusalem]

XqctaX wrote...

on a side not. beeing silent is a form of agreeing.
beeing silent on a forum were it seems 90% + hates the endings = a form of agreeing with that opinion.

Silence is consent? Seriously?

I... okay. Yeah. I'm just.... backing away before... before I say something that will get me banned. So.

Ahem.

*backs away slowly*

[Murkman4683]

kbct wrote...

Enraged Chicken wrote...

Calling out to the "non-vocal minority" are we?
This is my 3rd or 4rth post since I signed up, and I just gotta say that I was disapointed at the end of ME3.  I felt that the rest of the game was well written and thought out, but the ending was (in comparison at least) a real hash job.

Thanks. Keep posting, guys. Yes, this thread is a battleground now as you can see, but just make one quick post.

I am sorry, this troll joke is awesome, BATTLEGROUND, a real battleground.  Things are super serious over the internet and may I say blown out of proportion.  Out of all the moments in your life that you have had and will have, this is battle you choose to "fight", the one that you are committed to winning...

HAHA, absolutely classic, I love it!  Keep up the good fight, helps the time pass at work.

Modifié par Murkman4683, 23 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[Rafe34]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

You assume that people who don't care enough to make their opinions known over the net don't care about the endings. You assume a lot of things in this thread, tbh.

[Rafe34]

XqctaX wrote...

on a side not. beeing silent is a form of agreeing.
beeing silent on a forum were it seems 90% + hates the endings = a form of agreeing with that opinion.

No. This is not true at all.

This is the argument Colin Moriarty uses to say that the majority of people like the endings.

[kbct]

Murkman4683 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Enraged Chicken wrote...

Calling out to the "non-vocal minority" are we?
This is my 3rd or 4rth post since I signed up, and I just gotta say that I was disapointed at the end of ME3.  I felt that the rest of the game was well written and thought out, but the ending was (in comparison at least) a real hash job.

Thanks. Keep posting, guys. Yes, this thread is a battleground now as you can see, but just make one quick post.

I am sorry, this troll joke is awesome, BATTLEGROUND, a real battleground.  Things are super serious over the internet and may I say blown out of proportion.  Out of all the moments in your life that you have had and will have, this is battle you choose to "fight", the one that you are committed to winning...

HAHA, absolutely classic, I love it!  Keep up the good fight, helps the time pass at work.

It is a battleground. This thread is supposed to be for lurkers to post their thoughts. And instead the same people are fighting back and forth. Look at the post count. And now you're here.

Modifié par kbct, 23 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

You assume that people who don't care enough to make their opinions known over the net don't care about the endings. You assume a lot of things in this thread, tbh.

Show me where I've said that they don't care about the endings. They could like them. They could hate them. But they are the majority of Mass Effect 3 owners who don't care enough to make their opinions vocalized. It's called the "silent majority" for a reason.

You are a vocal minority. I am a vocal minority. Is your vocal minority bigger than my vocal minority? Yes. But that does not automatically mean you're the majority. 

[doomhandle]

This is my first post on the bioware forums, although I've had an EA account for two years.

I logged in to say that I'm incredibly disappointed in the ending, and I can't imagine how anyone working at Bioware thought that it was a good idea.

If they don't understand the key appeal to their games, then I can't really trust them as a company to produce good content.  How can they sell  a game where the idea is that choices matter, then they make all the choices irrelevant with the ending? I really hope there are some other good game companies starting up because this one has gone downhill.

Modifié par doomhandle, 23 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[Murkman4683]

kbct wrote...

Murkman4683 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Enraged Chicken wrote...

Calling out to the "non-vocal minority" are we?
This is my 3rd or 4rth post since I signed up, and I just gotta say that I was disapointed at the end of ME3.  I felt that the rest of the game was well written and thought out, but the ending was (in comparison at least) a real hash job.

Thanks. Keep posting, guys. Yes, this thread is a battleground now as you can see, but just make one quick post.

I am sorry, this troll joke is awesome, BATTLEGROUND, a real battleground.  Things are super serious over the internet and may I say blown out of proportion.  Out of all the moments in your life that you have had and will have, this is battle you choose to "fight", the one that you are committed to winning...

HAHA, absolutely classic, I love it!  Keep up the good fight, helps the time pass at work.

It is a battleground. This thread is supposed to be for lurkers to post their thoughts. And instead the same people are fighting back and forth. Look at the post count. And now you're here.

Of course I am KBCT, why would I not be here, you are still here, and you are a constant user of the forums, not a lurker.  My real question is, where is the MASS EFFECT discussion?  If I am not mistaken these forums are strictly for ME discussion, I see none here.  I would classify this as SPAM.

[darkshadow136]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The majority: People who just don't care enough to care about internet fking drama.
A minority: People who vocally hate the endings and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
A smaller minority: People who vocally enjoy the endings, and post on BSN, and other video game sites, saying so.
An even smaller minority: People who hate pie.

How is that, in ANY way, arguable?

Because you assume that that majority likes the endings. You and Colin Moriarty both assume that you are the majority, when in fact, you have zero evidence that suggests this is the case.

NO I DON'T. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. I HAVE SAID, QUITE CLEARLY, THAT THOSE WHO LIKE THE ENDINGS ARE IN THE MINORITY, ESPECIALLY HERE ON BSN.

God. DAMN.

I've said, QUITE CLEARLY, that the majority is those who simply don't CARE.

I'm not ANYWHERE close to claiming to be in the majority. I've never said that. I'll never say that, unless and until I get ACTUAL evidence to back that up. 

What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY. 

If you decide to go from "we're the majority" to "we're the majority of people who care enough to vote and post here on BSN and other websites" then fine, I won't argue that. But claiming to be "THE majority" is dishonest and deceitful, so stop it.

Ok let me get this straight both camps are a minority, there is no majority in the court of public opinion on the current endings of ME3, according to you that is. I would see a stance like that as one either being in deniel, indecisisive, or on  the fench unable to pick one side or the other.

I agree that there will be a great number of people that either disliked or didn't mind the ending that never voice their opinion on the internet. I do feel however that their is enough of a concern on Biowares part, that they need to change the endings so they don't loose future revenue. If it was not  a great concern they never would have come and talked about it, and respected publications like Forbes would not have called Bioware out, along with the big game reviewing sites.

I will also point out that every poll whether here or sites like G4TV and so on that had a poll on the ending. The statisics strictly pointed to the fact that more disliked the ending, then liked it. For me making a choice is easy since I look at thing with a black or white perspective, for me there is no grey.

Modifié par darkshadow136, 23 mars 2012 - 12:08 .