203 réponses à ce sujet

[Cadence of the Planes]

Nice points Rockworm.

Additionally, who gave the rage bandwagon the right to claim the lurkers?! Pfft I want the lurkers for the liked/neutral ending side! And the the majority of the fans, who dont even bother going on the forums- I claim them as well.

Want to know how? Because I can type a paragraph. Nyah.

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

If every poll that has ever been done on the issue has the people that dislike the endings at greater than 85%, then how do you KNOW we are a vocal minority? All the evidence points the other way. That is my point.

Because every poll that has ever been done on the issue is drawing from the same tainted sample:

Mass Effect 3 owners who are registered at video game website and who actually care enough to vote.

If I went to a Superman forum and said "Hey guys, I have a poll, how much would Superman kick that dude from DBZ's ass?" and 99% of people voted "SO FKING MUCH" it doesn't mean that 99% of people in the world think Superman would DBZ guy's ass. It means 99% of posters at this Superman forum who cared enough to vote, and were already told HOW to vote, thought that Superman would kick DBZ dude's ass SO MUCH.

Let me put it thusly: Are you a majority on THIS board? Yes. Absolutely. You are. Congratulations.

Are you a majority of EVERY ME3 owner? No. You are still a vocal minority. Sorry.

Thats a stretch even for you.
You really believe the same people are voting every single poll in every single site?
Thats not right because this is the first I've even heard of these other polls and I'm not in any rush to go vote on any of them.
Why would I?  You'll just dismiss them like you do every single one of them you disagree with.
These polls are worthless and you people are proving that.
If you agree than you defend them.
if you disagree well their just a vocal minority who cares?

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

If they don't care why should their opinion matter?

[kbct]

Any more lurkers out there?

[Eire Icon]

and now we are speculating on the views of people who don't post and why they don't post and which "side" they are on........

[Mylia Stenetch]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
What I'm saying is for YOU to stop claiming you're the majority. YOU. ARE. A. MINORITY.

If there are only two sides to an argument, then there is only one minority. Period.

There are three sides. Your side. My side. And the truth.

The truth is a three edged sword.

Other random pop culture quotes.

Ending haters. Ending likers. Those who don't care enough one way or another. Three groups. One majority. Two minorities. 

If they don't care why should their opinion matter?

Just to note in polls they have undecieded/don't care option for the people who don't care. The entire idea that people want to be a majority is silly. Using the poll here yes stastically you are a massive majority which can change the world of Bioware.

In the long term of all ME3 games aquired legaly/illegaly. Both sides are a vocal minority both sides which like and do not like the ending. This does not mean your voice matters less, you are still represented properly and being heard by the various masses. The issue is to claim that people on are on either side who did not have their voice put in. If you have a group of people with the same opinion on a subject it is great to use one voice. To overreach to other people saying they are with you can be disingenuous.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Faust1979 wrote...

and I only see the same people trolling about how they don't like the ending over and over again and making the same posts

FYI. Having an opinion and voicing it isn't trolling.

[furryrage59]

Pretty universal across all mediums that the ending was poor for various reasons.

That said, i do see a handful of people defending the endings here and there. But they are without a doubt massively the minority (of the people speaking without a doubt).

[Aecursis]

I lurk, occasionally read, never post. The ME3 ending was horrible.

- The explanation of the Reapers makes no sense. The God-child decides to save organics, prevent chaos, and prevent the AI from taking over...by killing organics, causing chaos, and using an AI to destroy advanced life. It is completely nonsensical.

- Your choices have no real impact. Destroy/keep the Collector Base in ME2? Save the Geth/Quarians? Save/kill the Rachni? None of it really matters. All three endings are still there and all are essentially identical. There were so many enormous decisions, and none really made any difference outside of some minor variations in war assets.

- There is no real epilogue. Bioware is more than capable of providing a great ending. DA:O had a great epilogue. In DA:O, you had some final conversations with your party member (not really possible in ME3) and then you had 15-20 "slides" on text that explained what happens to the world afterwards and what effects all of your choices eventually would have. No such thing occurs in ME3. There is no epilogue whatsoever and you're left with zero closure and zero fulfillment.

- Too many questions are left unanswered. Where does the Normandy crash and why are they outside of the Sol system? Why are my squadmates on the Normandy instead of on Earth? What happens to people like Miranda/Jacob/Samara/Jack/Wrex/etc? What are the effects of the Relays being destroy - are all of the races/fleets stranded at Earth? How does everyone react to Shepards actions?

The ending really just left me completely dumbfounded (and I was expected a bad ending from what some friends had mentioned to me). I certainly don't expect or need a "happy" ending, but this one was HORRIBLY written compared to the rest of the game. 99% of the game was phenomenal. The three ME3 games are among my favorites...but the ending really just spoiled the entire series for me. I have such little desire to go back and play any of them knowing that the ending is so lackluster. WTF happened?

Modifié par Aecursis, 23 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Mr. Sinister 79]

Hi, lurking since i ended ME3.

[kbct]

Mr. Sinister 79 wrote...

Hi, lurking since i ended ME3.

Thoughts on the ending?

[Yusta1]

Obcasus Nex wrote...

i was a lurker and i came out because the ending burned so much

[Gerza71]

I a lurker and I don't like the ending either. I don't want a Hollywood ending like what happened at the end of Return of the Jedi.

I knew this series will have a grim ending. There should of been two of each choices and those choices depends how the player played the games. There should be two blues, two purples and two reds if they played the three games. Not only in ME3 but in ME and ME2.

There is a lot of whys here and lot of holes. With the whys, why did Joker flew off with the ship, or did the ship went haywire. Why Shepard could not talked to the kid near the end after Shepard being lifted up by the lift? I wanted Shepard talk to the kid like Shepard talked to Vigel in ME.

If Shepard died and by any chance Joker picked him up (that all depends choices the player made through out the series) why I did not see his crew mates bury him on earth or any other planet (depends on choice).

What happened to the crew of the Normandy? All the choices the player made during the three games. Can we see what we done for example, if the player saved the Rachni queen in ME then fights on Shepard's side with the Krogan on planet Earth. Are they going to fight each other on planet Earth about 100 years later. That is a sort of ending what I like. What happened to the under cover cop? Did she become reaper food at ME3?

All I got a kid give me three choices that I have no input on. Then Joker flew off with the ship and crash landed on a planet. Then a old man talking to a kid. Could we not see my Shepard for the finale time no matter what form he ended up instead of the old man and the kid.

Modifié par Gerza71, 23 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[Mr. Sinister 79]

Lets just say i'm part of the ''vocal minority''.
My english isn't good enough to debate/discuss the ending properly.(Dutch)

I follow almost every thread, newsarticle, statements that came out over the last couple of weeks.
I leave the debate to more qualified people.

[Yusta1]

kbct wrote...

Mr. Sinister 79 wrote...

Hi, lurking since i ended ME3.

Thoughts on the ending?

For me the ending is simple bad, deus ex machina, there is not reasona to say any more.

I also found the the indoctrination theory a easy way for bioware to escape from this mess, nothing more.

But most important of all, when someone tell me that inside the box there is an orange and instead they give me an apple, i'm not happy, i love apple but i was looking for an orange.

I want explanation for this ( and also the orange i payed for), if both of those question will remaing without respons, i simple move on with my money, trust is learned not deserved.

ex-lurker here.

p.s.

sry for my english i don't speak it well.

Modifié par Yusta1, 23 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[jackyboy666]

Oh hi there! Sorry was busy casting space magic!

[LNabors]

I never visited BSN before I reached the end of ME3.

They disappointed me so much that I have been lurking for a week....

[Bytor72]

Another lurker here who sat in stunned disbelief at the incomprehensible and non-sensical ending we were given to this otherwise great trilogy of games. It's inconceivable to me that the writing team that was 99.9% brilliant across 3 games could fubar the ending so badly that it ruins my memory of the whole experience.

Haven't been able to start a second playthrough since then. I'm constantly here hoping to hear this was all part of a larger plan and the real endings they planned are out there.

Bioware/EA has definitely lost me as an automatic pre-order customer & I won't be buying anything from them again until I read actual customer reviews, as it's clear in my opinion most "professional" gaming magazine & websites have serious conflicts of interest when reviewing games from major publishers.

Modifié par Bytor72, 23 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[nespeed]

Lurker since ME1 and holding the line, in a lurking way.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

Faust1979 wrote...

I am KROGAN wrote...

Hi, I enjoy lurking very much, it suits me.

Also, I agree, general sentiments seem to be that the ending is bad. I seem to see the same 5-6 people arguing in favor of the endings during my lurking.

and I only see the same people trolling about how they don't like the ending over and over again and making the same posts

People have actual proof that the ending sucks, with reasons as to why it sucks, like gaping plot holes, nonsensical stuff to the level never seen before

[catabuca]

There might be some people out there who aren't posting on here because the atmosphere isn't very welcoming to anyone who isn't aligning themselves with 'Retake.'

I'm not talking about those who come out and make fun of Retake, or are vocally abusive or patronising. I'm talking about those who dare to make a post that says "I understand your concerns, but I liked the ending." The vitriol that is poured out toward them time and time again is very sad to see.

BSN isn't a welcoming place for anyone with a different opinion any more.

I'm not assuming those people make up any kind of minority or majority, because trying to guess at numbers is utterly pointless and divisive, as I pointed out in my last ignored post in this thread. I'm merely talking about what I've personally observed.

I certainly no longer feel a part of the community that I dedicated myself to over the last 3 years. There is no place for me here any more, because I get the sense at every turn that I am not allowed to have a different opinion, and if I do, it's okay to mock me and call me stupid and tell me I haven't obviously ever played any other ME games before or I don't understand narrative (fully funded literature PhD, but whatever) or I'm not in any way emotionally invested in the games, or any number of other things. But at the same time, anyone who mocks someone from the Retake movement is called out for doing so, sometimes quite viciously. The double standard is distressing.

I don't want to mock anyone for not liking the endings. I agree with the existence of plot holes, I agree with many of the things people are upset about. Those things, however, didn't have the same effect on me and my overall enjoyment of the game(s) as they did for a lot of other people. There are things about the ending that I actively liked, and I choose to focus on them, and perhaps I'm lucky that I am able to do so. But because of that, I'm no longer welcome, I'm forced to become a lurker or at the very least not comment on the ending because I'll be ostracised, I'll be told I'm not the right sort of fan, I'll be told I must be a troll, I must not be intelligent, I must not know what I'm talking about because there is no possible way at all that I could legitimately hold the opinion I hold without being a liar or an imbecile. Not everyone treats me or others like me that way, but there are enough that do to make it a very inhospitable place now. Something I'm very, very sad about, because over the years I made some incredibly good friends here and got involved in some very worthy causes. But now I'm no better than the crap you wipe off your shoe.

Thank you.

[Heather Cline]

Cata I hope I've never treated you that way. I respect that you enjoy the ending and glad that you do. I've stated to those who've enjoyed the ending that I'm glad for them. That I disagree with their view point sure but glad all the same they enjoy the ending and support their enjoyment even if I did not enjoy the ending and wanted the real 16 different endings we had been promised through the ad campaign for ME3.

I apologize to you if I in any way caused you pain or upset. I cannot speak for anyone else and I won't attempt to do so. I did not wish to make you feel unwelcome and I hope that in the future you will be welcome at least by me.

[Shadowfire67]

I'm a lurker here and I'm not mad about the ending. We are legion.

Also, saying you "based on what I've read on the forums here" that the people who are fine are the minotiry is the WRONG place to make that judgement.

[catabuca]

Heather Cline wrote...

Cata I hope I've never treated you that way. I respect that you enjoy the ending and glad that you do. I've stated to those who've enjoyed the ending that I'm glad for them. That I disagree with their view point sure but glad all the same they enjoy the ending and support their enjoyment even if I did not enjoy the ending and wanted the real 16 different endings we had been promised through the ad campaign for ME3.

I apologize to you if I in any way caused you pain or upset. I cannot speak for anyone else and I won't attempt to do so. I did not wish to make you feel unwelcome and I hope that in the future you will be welcome at least by me.

You haven't treated me that way, Heather, and I thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot to me, I mean that.

I understand that there is a lot at stake for many people here, and any voices that speak out about liking the ending are viewed as dangerous, because what if BioWare chooses to listen to those and use them as 'evidence' that there was nothing wrong with the game to begin with, and doesn't address anyone's concerns? I understand that, and that's most likely why there is such a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who speaks favourably of the game. But while I understand the reasons for it, that doesn't excuse it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and when any and all dissenting opinions are jumped upon in order to silence them, it's bad for the community as a whole. We're not talking about people trying to stop the hate speech we used to encounter in FftL, something that is actively harmful. And we're not talking about people civilly discussing differences of opinion. We're talking about the attempt to silence--via mockery or abuse or just plain old unpleasantness and a tone that has an edge of disdain and derision--any opinion that doesn't further the 'Retake' movement's goals.

I want to be a part of BSN at the moment because even though I don't have the problems many have with the ending I still have a stake in the outcome of this, and I still want to talk about the franchise that got me back into gaming, I still want to talk to the people I like, and in some instances care about. But when I can barely open a single thread without seeing such disdain toward anyone who has a different opinion on the ending, or other aspects of the game, it makes it very difficult to continue to feel welcome. I don't want people to have the same opinion as me in order to make this a happy place for me to be. I just don't want to be made to feel like a pariah, I don't want to have to tip-toe around censoring myself about my enjoyment of aspects of the game for fear I will be attacked in the ways I outlined above. This isn't necessarily about instances where people have come out and said these things to me personally--because I so far have been censoring myself to a very large degree--but it's about how I see it happening to others, and how that creates the atmosphere whereby I am being silenced for fear of what will happen if I do dare speak.

BSN feels like a very hostile place right now. There is a lot of visciousness flying around. People's anger and frustration and upset at the game and at BioWare is being directed toward anyone who doesn't agree. That's destructive, it's divisive, and it's incredibly sad to see.

[Heather Cline]

This also cuts both ways Cata. I've seen people come into a Retake thread and throw around insults, hurtful words and are jumped upon to silence the masses who dislike the ending. There have been numerous times I've went into a thread and posted in the Retake or other threads supporting retake and I've been outright quoted and insulted about a post I've made. Not only that the news outlets and the media that support the ending of the game have insulted the Retake community to a large degree.

So while I understand how unwelcoming BSN has become to you it has also become unwelcoming to many of those who dislike the ending because many of those who like the ending are spreading their hate for us, their vitriol and their down right blatant distaste for anyone who dislikes it.

I support what you have to say and I understand it. I am sorry you have to censor yourself and I cannot tell you how to go about getting what you want without causing trouble for yourself. All I can say is good luck and I wish you the best.

It is incredibly sad to see people attacking each other and being at each others throats but there is nothing you nor I can do.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 23 mars 2012 - 04:04 .